coop forum?

I'm just learning of the coop issue. I have been off the computer for 2 days and come back to a list of dmails about this. I understand there will always be complaints regardless of how well something is handled. I do NOT think this has anything to do with profit for DG. I think it has to do with people who have nothing better to do than complain about things. Admin should not be notified about these issues - ADMIN has clearly stated "enter at your own risk".

I would agree with the member who suggested only HOST with current positive feedback AS a Host be allowed to continue. Any new member must have 2 years experience co-hosting (like Patrob and Chris who helped me with numbers) so they get the 'behind the scene experience that goes unsaid on threads". This is not something you 'think you can do' and pull it off.

As a Host for 2 years I have learned the biggest problem in a coop is participants. They do not read. Each new ORDER threads must state "enter at your own risk, if you have problems or concerns contact the host as DG Admin is not responsible". That would be a requirement of the Host.

It's like going to WalMart and getting hit in the parking lot by a run away buggy. Is it the buggy that gets in trouble for causing the damage/problem because it did not know what it was doing and there are places CLEARLY labeled Cart Return? Is it the Owner/Manager of WalMart that loses his job because he can't hand push all buggies, or is it the person who parked the buggy beside a car on a windy day because they were to lazy to put it where it went? IT WOULD BE THE LAZY PERSON who should be at fault. If you have things clearly marked (buggy return) and a Host who runs things correctly and has great ratings (the Manager) and a couple of lazy, grumpy people who won't follow instructions and use common sense (the buggy pusher) then it's the buggy pusher who is at fault. Don't punish everyone. I'm not sure this was a good example of what I'm trying to say or not. I'm still in shock over this event.

I do think it was clearly wrong to close the coop thread without discussion. As paying members it should be a topic in the coop forum - not the entire site. If you had a seed trading issue the entire site should not be involved. Just people who frequent that thread.

We really love the coops and a generic comment to folks who complain about a coop should be sent as a reply - like the "out of office" reply you often get on emails when someone is on vacation. "Coops are clearly stated as enter at your own risk. DG has not involvement in any coop". Don't debate it, just have all ADMIN people reply with the same sentence.

It's not a perfect world but there sure are good people here and a few nuts in the bunch. I have considered "inviting" people to my coops. People who know me as a Host and who have participated without problems. The Hosts knows who causes issues and we can do blast dmails for coops.

Please consider how much wonderful fellowship has been shared by all this and not the few complaints.

Respectfully -
Kathy

Wal-Mart the one that gets sued. It happened here in MN. A Wal-Mart was allowing a Farmers Market to use their parking lot. A FM customer got hurt buying produce at the FM. She won a Million dollar lawsuit against Wal-Mart.
You can't get away from being accountable if you own the business.

Bernie

Wal*Mart had no business letting a FM IN on W*M property in the first place! It's against the rules!
A former Wal*Mart Assoc.!

Let's stick with the topic at hand, please.

LOL, sorry

I have been a Dger for less than two months. I joined because I found it to be a place where I could learn from other gardeners more experienced than I. I have not been disappointed. I have learned more in the last six weeks from growers of all kinds of plants than I could have learned searching for a year through books. I didn't join for co-ops. I joined for gardener fellowship. I have used the plant files over and over. It is a place where I can ask what to me may seem a stupid question, without fear of someone telling me I was stupid. Everyone has been eager to help and reassure a novice to gardening anything, other than petunias, cannas and roses.

Having said that, I did participate in one co-op a few weeks ago. It was a great experience and I got some very nice brugs. I understand by the responses here that people are very passionate about their co-ops. But there are people on this site in any number of forums that don't act like adults and their behavior reminds me of children. It's like if, "I can't have it my way, then I'm taking my toys and going home".

Just because you don't see complaints on a forum or feedback doesn't mean they are not being made. I believe it when Dave says they are inundated with complaints. Judging from what I have read on a couple of forums lately about the way things are done, I can imagine they are rather vitriolic. If the Admin polices, people yell at them, if they don't police, they still yell at them. They can't win. My suggestion would be; if you think you can do the job better, then do it. You might find out real quick that you don't want the headaches of fielding complaints from Dgers who "entered at your own risk" either.

It seems now, that there are a few here who want co-ops and are brainstorming on ways to have them that would minimize Admin's involvemnet. I applaud you and I wish you luck. But if it doesn't happen, don't beat up on Admin. DG is still a wonderful place to learn and share with others.

I too am on a fixed income and did drive 70 miles to my one and only RU in Oct. I brought a few plants and seeds and came home with far more. I do believe I came out ahead. There are people on other plant forums who are always more than gracious in offering free plants, cuttings, or seeds for postage. And sometimes they don't even want the postage. They just want to bless someone with their bounty. I would like to co-op again but if I can't I will be content with trading or giving or receiving from other growers.

If I have offended anyone, I am sorry. I don't know what the solution is and I hope there are great minds here that do. But as the old saying goes, don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

This message was edited Nov 11, 2008 7:01 PM

Very nice post TexasGrower.

I just came across this thread and it truly saddens me that his has occurred. I took the time to read through all the posts and sincerely hope the outcome will be a positive one. I have participated in several coops and have been so grateful to be able to purchase items I normally would not have been able to afford. I wish I could come up with a solution. Hopefully, something will come out of the ideas submitted in the next few days. It's really a shame that so many wonderful gardeners are hurt by the actions of so few.

Beautiful garden, Notmartha. Love it!

Kyla, welcome to Dave's. I love this website. I did not join for the co-ops, but recently found them to be an added bonus. I'm currently participating in one, and now that I've found out what a great thing they can be for the budget conscious gardener, I'm sad to see them go (maybe not, we'll see). Anyhow, I joined back in 2006, then after being a member for a year I took a break, as 2007 I was pretty depressed and didn't do as much gardening as normal. Then I came back almost a year later, and I'm sure glad I did. I enjoy the many forums and discussions, and I've made some good friends here. It's a great place to connect, and co-ops were just one more great thing about Dave's. I think you will enjoy it here, with or without the co-ops.

Yes, it is the lazy person who left the cart in the lot on a windy day that is responsible, but as stated by others, it's Walmat who gets in trouble. That lazy person who left the cart in the lot has gone, and no one knows who left the cart there. That's why Walmart and other stores have to hire people to go out to the lot and round up carts, because people don't return them like they should.

Karen

My main issue is one of the ones well stated by shihtzumom:

I posted this on both fix and alternative thread -Please LMK what you think - Admin & subscribers
I was thinking - and I came up with an idea - Dave sets up a couple lists like address exchange - but not public - one list members/subscribers who would like to be contacted by a vendor offering special discounts, etc for DG members - vendors pay for this list quarterly - maybe $20 - another list who would like to be contacted by hosts for co-ops - hosts pay $5.00 - when vendors and hosts request list - they go on two separate lists - one for hosts and vendors - have a rating system -stars for positve - x's for strikes - this would go in an area where any participants -on list could see- and be aware - right now we have no idea really - obviously there've been problems - not reflected in the current feedback system - perhaps this being monitored by DG Admin -would be the easiest way of controling problems - by preventing them

Vendors should submit their policies for any guarantees, replacements, etc. so that would be upfront and customers would have to read and agree to terms before purchasing - of course DG Admin would have to approve these before the vendor gets a list

A lot of vendors have their own websites w/systems like paypal , propay, etc. payments and shipments can be tracked

Hosts - should have to have some kind of approval - based on prior co-ops -- a paypal acct could actually be set up that could be overseen by a DG admin - they would know who had paid - any payments out of account - for product - would have to be approved by this admin

Hosts would be limited to one co-op at a time
depending on rating - based on past co-op's - that rating would allow host to have x number of participants and x number of products

I think I have covered most of the issues here -a- no money would disappear
b - no one would be able to take on a drastically bigger co-op than they proved they can do successfully
c- individuals are made aware of the service, etc. status of either vendor or host - if they have nothing but stars OK - if they have even one x that should raise caution
d -a committee of Admin and member oversight - for complaints to be logged - and judged to be either valid or
frivoulous - with resulting consequences for either member, host or vendor

Admin - Please Let me know what you think of this alternative.
and thank you for your patience with all of us
Hopefully together we can iron out these problems and preserve a much loved feature that really does enhance our community
Esther Sams

I just participated in my first coop. So far it's been a great experience. I was very much looking forward to others in the future. This event has been quite a surprise. I have visited the Marketplace and found it less than inspiring. It is by no means an effective substitute for coops. Having said that, I feel remiss in not being able to provide any meaningful solutions to the coop problems. The owners/operators of this forum had the wonderful foresight and intelligence to put this site together in the first place. I have to believe that they have the expertise to engineer a set of solutions that will retain the subscribers. The easy sharing of gardening information is key to the success of Dave's Garden. If the pool of subscribers is diminshed then information sharing is diminished. And so will the potential pool of customers to the Marketplace. This is kind of a crossroads thing. Only Dave knows where he wants to take it.

TexasGrower, Well said!!!! One of the most appropriate mature responses that I have read. Thank you.

Very well said , Snapple!! That would make me take pause, I think

..........Nonetheless...I trust your judgement Dave !!!

^_^ actually it is the wind that is responsible and it would be covered under your comprehensive coverage on your auto insurance ^_^


I agree, I trust Daves judgement....but hope he gives us a third chance!

AnjL

I enjoy Dave's for the give and take. I have made a couple of purchases via co-ops but will not leave because of their demise. I have met many fun and interesting people and am fortunate to have met some of them in person. I am sure Dave made a careful and cautious decision about this.

I understand how upset many people are because they have made some excellent purchases. Maybe now that the co-ops are gone the Marketplace will become a good alternative.

1AnjL, is that true that damage from a cart being blown into your car by the wind would be covered by your insurance, or was that just a joke?

Karen

Karen, I would imagine it would depend on what coverage you have. If you have comprehensive, probably. Think that's it, might be something different.

Jeanette

Guys...hate me if you want, but the continued conversation about walmart, after Terry's very polite hint to stop, is why we are now trying to "fix" coops. The craziest innocent things said in a post can be turned around and used to cause and argument which hurts peoples feelings and then things get viscious.

Here is Terry's polite hint. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5775652


chris

Chris, I thought that was my way of ending it, but then I guess everyone things so. Over and done with.

Jeanette

I am now getting lost on where I have posted what...anyone else?

Excellent point, chrislcf530!

I started this thread with an innocent question. I think it has been beat to death. No one who has posted here is happy that Dave pulled the plug for all the reasons that have been stated. But now we need a solution or alternative. Please try to share your ideas, rather than your frustrations.

These are the two good threads that are now trying to either, one, fix the coop so it can perhaps be back on DG, or, two, find an alternative way that members of DG can do Group Buys/coops via an another method that does not use DG.

Here are they are. Please post your positive ideas. Thanks, Patti

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921953/
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921974/

Sorry, Chris, about the walmart thing, but my last comment about it came right after Terry's, and it happened we were cross-posting. Oops!

Karen

okay...since the co-op forum is currently temporarily re-opened....

I feel compelled to answer the cart question! (its the insurance agent in me! lol!)

Yes, if you have comprehensive coverage it covers all damage to your vehicle except collision (which is you colliding with an object, or an object colliding with you) since the cart was blown into your car by wind, it is wind damage same as if a tree fell on your car due to wind, and is covered under the comprehensive coverage.


no joke ^_^

AnjL

Alrighty then! Actually good to know.

Karen

Oh wow - should I not host the co-op? I am currently taking interest. This thread did not pop up on my new thread watched list and after reading all of this.... I have participated in alot of co-ops so I do understand them and that its at your own risk...
I dont plan on ripping people off - just was planing on putting in an order and wanted to know if my dg friends needed anything b/c there is a large order discount...
Yikes, I dont know what to do now (there is alot of interest in the co-op)
Please advise.
Thanks
bre

Dave and Admin have temporarily re-opened the co-ops for now :o) so I think your still good to go!

hoping there will be changes in place for the future so Admin is no longer unindated with co-op issues :o)

So happy that they co-ops are back on for now. I'm looking forward to participate in more, though it's not my main reason for being on DG. I just love all the friends I've made through here, and being able to chat with other gardening nuts like me. Most of my friends and family aren't big into gardening like I am.

Karen