coop forum?

Having vendors offer co-ops in a forum violates the AUP rule about not posting to promote your own business. That might be avoided if we can figure out a way to run co-ops via the classifieds or the marketplace, where vendors are of course free to post.

I am extremely disappointed that the co-ops are closed. It was definitely one of my main reasons for paying Dave's subscription fee. Because of the co-op forums, I now own plants I never thought I'd own, due to their high expense & my fear of killing an expensive plant. I now have beautiful blooming named plumerias that I bought for less than $10 each last year, with free seeds (100% germination) & extra cuttings it averaged to less than $5 per plant! Water lilies & marginals at extremely low prices, the list goes on & on. I can understand that a small percentage of co-ops had problems, but this isn't a perfect world & never will be. Even Dave's has an ongoing problem with people's posts disapppearing before being sent (ask anyone in the Pets Forum about it), but that doesn't mean we're all going to quit Dave's! This is like "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"! I wish the administrators would reconsider, or have a poll. Due to financial reasons, I haven't been able to participate in a co-op for awhile. And now knowing I'll never be able to again is very depressing.

dragonfly, am I missing something ? No part of my trip to KY RU was deductible that I know of.
It was strictly a vacation & guess what, I am going again next year! Some of the nicest people in the world were there, including some DG staff.

If you people are only here to save money, like I said earlier, get on your favorite flowers forums. Participate in the threads there. You will be offered plants, seeds, bulbs, etc. for postage or a trade. Heck of a lot cheaper than some of the vendors for co-ops.

Bernie

Bonheur,

there are a few of other threads going where they are looking to "fix it" [so we may have co-ops again]
Fixing It = http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921974/
and looking for possible alternatives [in case we can't get them going again]
Alternatives = http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921953/

We love you , Dave and appreciate you!!!

..........and maybe when I can fully digest this bad news, we can all come up with some constructive suggestions that can fix all of our concerns. I love the Co-op forum ... though my husband is NOT so inclined. Sharon

Country-if you took your plants from your business the whole trip can be deducted:) My mom's an accountant-anything business related:)

Sharon-LOL-I think that is true of most DH's

Seems like everywhere, people with money can't understand why or how people who do not have money, do things! I manage my money to suit ME, not some rich dude!

Audrey-who has or knows a rich dude-gotta meet him:)

Lifestyles are different and not everyone understands someones elses shoes-that is why diversity is such a wonderful thing:)

Fairy, YOU understand!!!

Lots of us understand, don't worry. And those who don't understand .... well....guess they can't.

I think it is because your picture doesn't look like a farmer-I know I've seen it somplace-I thought you were a blu collar guy-had no clue either!!LOL

Please.... I begging.... lets all just try and keep to the main topic of ideas that wil bring the coops back that wil meet with Daves approval. He has suffere d the headaches twice already, we're very lucky he might even consider a third.

I see lot sof folks readign and posting and we have thousands of coop buyers and yet so few are tryign to come up with ideas.

We as a community need to come to terms and agreements the same way it was set-up for the marketplace with ideas being put forth in a structured form and allowing dave to go through each section and put together a final " this is the last time no exceptions policies"

For those new and not knowing, buyers and vendors all had a chance to speak and vote. It worked out very well too.

The whole issue is

1. Rules for buyers, precise , consise and clear so that all buyers no matter is they 12 or 100 from anywhere can fully understand them and that once in place thes erules will be followed .

2. Rules for the host/hostesses, what will be required of them, how formats shoudl be made, so that all the hosts are on the same page and buyers can see exactly what the coop is and what they agreeing to.

3. Rules for the types of vendors of vendor s that can be used and what.

4. How offenders should be handled that will keep the co-ops runnign soothly, and protect people and admid from havign to deal with unfavorable dmails and behidn the scene nasties.

Think about what be good for the community as a whole. Maybe some of you join alot of them, maybe some folks only a few, but set it so that Active participants, semi and newbies can all be treated fairly by vendors and hosts and they inturn will treat the hosts and vendors with respect.

It was done with the marketplace and the classified and now maybe we as a community can figrue out how to do it for the coops.

Star we are doing that-mainly in the fixing ti thread:)

Sorry Dave, thought ya was still sowing wheat. You talk about your wheat and gardening wheat all ya like. : )

If there were uniform rules for the co ops, it would probably run much smoother. When each is run differently, there is confusion going from one to the other. Maybe those rules should be spelled out in the sticky at top of the forum.

Some hostesses charge a handling fee to pay for their cost and some don't or charge more or less. That seems to be a problem for member.s If it were uniform, there would be no need for the rules for each co op to be repeated endlessly.

tcs1366 - Thank you for directing me to those links! When I posted, I had just read in another forum about the closing & came to this thread, but I only read yesterday's posts (there were a LOT) before I felt the need to post. I am glad the tone has become more positive. I'll go to one of those links now!

I just read the news. I too feel a little shell-shocked. I'm stunned that I didn't see this coming - that it just all of a sudden happened. I've participated in a good many co-ops and had no idea that there even were problems. But then again I don't suppose I should be surprised. Why would I think Dave's Garden is exempt from the old "one bad apple" adage? I've had co-op plants arrive in less-than-perfect condition and I've also had co-op plants completely DOA. But I'm a big girl and am smart enough to know that "co-ops are enjoyed AT YOUR OWN RISK - Buyer beware" actually means "co-ops are enjoyed AT YOUR OWN RISK - Buyer beware." I'm really not too fond of the word "duh," but it's too appropriate not to use here.

Duh. What part of "at your own risk" is so hard to understand?

I realize that this thread is all but closed, and that 2 new ones have been opened for brain-storming and problem-solving. Bravo! I will head in that direction next, but in keeping with the positive "let's fix this" attitude of the new threads I want to keep them that way. I felt compelled to express my sorrow and disappointment over this turn of events and have done so here in the initial thread. But now it's time to put our collective co-op heads together and try to work this out. See you over on the next thread.

;-)
La

There are two different threads going on right now looking for solutions.

I think we are all aware that there IS in fact a problem for DG Admin to monitor the co-ops and I now completely understand their reasoning for shutting it down, and I dont blame them at all.

I had no idea that there were massive amounts of dmails being sent to the help desk complaining about the co-ops. and looking at my own email account recently, I can understand why they would not want all these dmailed complaints to have to cope with...when there are other issues they need to be addressing to keep this site running in a smooth manner.

I believe that if the co-ops were run completely seperate from DG, that would be the answer to all. we can still run co-ops and still have savings...and DG Admin would not need to spend their time monitoring them etc. I am happy with that solution if its allowed.

I think we should all get out of the problem ie: complaining & accusing here~I too am guilty of it.... as I didnt understand the 'why' of no more co-ops. Dave has explained it very clearly now. I think we should now just get into the solution of how to continue to buy in bulk and not create havoc for the DG Admin team ~ who for the most part have done an excellent job with this site!

Can we all just let this thread die out now...and get into some solutions to see what will work best for those of us who love the co-ops so much?

AnjL

FYI: DonnaA2Z has chosen to not be on the site anymore, and I have removed her account. I expect her to send rumors to everyone on her email list, thus I am making this post. The bottom line is that when people cause sedition on the site and rile people up against me and the other admins, I tend to frown on that kind of behavior.

Please, no discussion about this. D-Mail me if you have concerns or questions. Everyone else, please continue the productive conversation about these co-ops.

As I stated I too think we need to move on to the positive. But I also believe that those of us who just found out about the co-op closure should have a chance to speak just as those before us did. My apologies if it seemed like I was complaining and accusing. I tried hard to chose my wording so that it didn't come off that way.
*edited for clarity

This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 7:27 PM

My opinion, and my answer to another DG'er question on another thread of why Management is even involved in Co-Ops:

DG Management is involved because this is their website and all Forums on DG are their responsibility.

I have only been a paid subscriber to DG for two years. This is the first on-line site I ever joined and before finding DG I had never even chatted online, other than e-mail to family and friends.

I pretty much hang out only on a couple of forums but do lurk on many, and I have been amazed at some of the bickering, whining and downright nastiness that has gone on within some of the threads! I have to admit I was a bit surprised that adults would conduct themselves in such a manner ... but then realized, it's no different than real life, sometimes tempers flare and folks get agitated and personality conflicts happen. But when we get out of hand, someone has to control it if we can't seem to control ourselves. It just causes a lot of unneeded and unwanted headaches for management.

I am very grateful for the manner in which Dave & Company run this site, keeping this a peaceful, family community for us all to enjoy!

I like to think of it like this:

We, as subscribers, are the "Plants" in this garden and the folks in Administration are the"Caretakers".

I commend the caretakers for tending this garden in the manner they do, sometimes having to pull a few weeds and eradicate a little fungus to keep it a healthy and viable garden for us all.

Oh man......I just found out about the co-ops closing and I am devastated! I live in a small town, not may places to buy quality plants. I have participated in many co-ops since I have joined Dave's and have never had a single problem with anything that I purchased. If I had of, I knew before hand that I went into this "At my own risk". ALL of the hostess that I have dealt with have been wonderful and gone above and beyond their call of duty. My flower gardens are beautiful and filled with mostly plants bought on the co-ops here.

You know, I used to be a student supervisor at a college and had to deal with and resolve problems. I REALLY wish that I had some constructive ideas on how to solve this one. I just hope and pray that things will work out.

Wanda

Well, I am new here and might as well plunge in to the thick of things.......

I did not read through this entire thread, but I skimmed all of it and read the bits that seemed germane. (A skill I have from being a forums moderator elsewhere.)

Three things I would like to say:

First, I have tried to purchase something on the Marketplace and it looks like I am not being sent the item I paid for (been paid for since Oct 28 via PayPal) I am also currently participating with a tiny purchase in one of the current co-ops which so far has been a much more pleasant experience. I am not sure, after skimming through here, that I want to leave negative feedback about the seller I have the issue with, but I am still thinking about that as it seems my main recourse and it also seems it might contribute.

Second, Wow, the admins here sure have their hands full! A site this active with this many participants is a huge huge handful, and I have to say from my own past experience I have been quite positively impressed with the quality of discussion generally and the atmosphere of mutual support and respect -- EVEN in this thread, which, while it has gotten heated, has stayed within civil bounds and come around to an agreement in principle to work things out amicably and fairly. You may have little idea how very rare this is; it speaks well of gardeners and of this site.

Third, one of the first things I was taught (though I am not sure I agree with this 100%) is that what they call "meta" discussion can be really deadly. That is, discussion among participants about administrative decisions. Everyone has his or her own idea of what is fair and what is not and actually, to run a large discussion forum requires a certain amount of authority that is willing at some point to say, that's it, issue decided, participation here is a privilege and not a right and it is your choice to stay or go.

Of course with paid subscriptions that last point becomes a bit more problematic, but I think it still applies.

Okay, I think I will return to being the observer............. well, actually, one more point: I have observed in the last few weeks that many many people are being triggered more readily than we are used to. Perhaps that is impacting this situation as well, I would not be surprised.

Now I am going back to my sci-fi novel or something.

thank you all for being good gardeners.

Kyla

Kyla: Have you d-mailed the person from Marketplace that you are having a problem with, letting them know you paid for an item that you never received? I would think after trying to resolve the issue through d-mail if you don't get satisfaction then definitely leave negative feedback. I've heard a lot of folks saying they don't like to leave negative feedback but if it is warranted it should be given.

Yup, I surely have. Twice. I am thinking perhaps the item has been shipped but the seller neglected to follow through on the stated intention to Dmail me about it -- and because the distance is great I am giving enough time to make sure that is not happening before leaving any feedback. It is an educational process and the benefit is it is one way I am learning about this forum and community!

Thanks.

Welcome to DG Kyla!

Has the person responded to your d-mails? I would say if you haven't received the item by the end of the week you should d-mail them one last time and tell them you are leaving negative feedback! If it is a plant and it was shipped on the 28th of October you should have received it by now ... it's probably dead if it's been traveling around the country in mail trucks this long!

Oh, Kyla ... Yes, WELCOME! I see you just subscribed to DG last month! I have been a member two years and still consider myself somewhat of a newbie but have met some really kind and generous people here in the garden! I love this place!

Thank you, Chris.

Plantlady, no, I have received no response. Fortunately the item in question is not a plant . I will do as you suggest and Dmail the person before leaving any feedback, sometime late this week.

I did post about this in the DG Marketplace forum, maybe if there are other responses they might be taken over there? Don't want to wander too far afield here, but I am grateful for the support.

And PL, editing to say, thank you too for the welcome. I am happy to be here.


This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 6:16 PM

i just wanted to post this picture
without daves and the co-ops this would have never
been possible!
i hope we can get the co-ops back!!!

What a Beautiful garden! Great Growing notmartha! That really is a lovely, serene sight!

Notmartha, I would have voted for that photo in the contest!!!!! Just gorgeous.

It is an inconvienence but not the end of the world. The organizers of the co-ops can announce it on a separate blog and then just come here and annouce to everyone that they really need to visit the blog without saying why. Just a thought. Where there is a will there is a way.

I just participated in my first co-op (seeds) and must say it was a fun and pleasant experience. Thanks Donna and Robin!

Oops! Just realized this discussion has mooved. :)

Molly-this is more of an opinion expressing thread-there is another one for alternatives and another one for fixing it:)

Hey, Dave! I just got this whole "Little Red Hen" thing in my brain now...Who will help me plant the wheat? Who will help me harvest the wheat?....LOL !!! I think most of us wish we had space to plant wheat:-)

I think we probably should think about the old adage of "walk a mile in my shoes". I'm sure admin. would like us to understand what that would be like. Think about getting up and heading into a chainsaw of complaints every morning. Even tho you've made it clear that we go into a co op at our own risk. It is everyone's tendency to take it to the "boss". Having been a "boss" I know how much time dealing with that sort of thing takes up. It keeps you away from the positive important things.

Complaints and bad feelings about co ops or anything else are very rarely kept on one thread or even one forum. It tends to spill out into other threads and forums. So, I do understand what Admin is talking about. Their staying on top of things is why Dave's is friendly good place to go.

I doubt they get up and say" Let's see if we can make the members miserable today" So, I'm sure this really had become a problem.

I agree, Lorriane..I really had no idea that there were even more than a few isolated problems, since I hadn't seen much negative feedback at all. After seeing these threads, though, I get the feeling that very few people used that system, and instead made the admins miserable. I wonder too tho, if those who got a negative didn't make a huge stink too, and rather than let a majority of positives outweigh it, or own up to their failings, took it out on the admins.
I think that's why so many people were up in arms at first, they did such a good job of containing the negativity, I don't think the scope of the problems were obvious to the outside observer...I think I have a better idea now, after having read their side of things, how hard it must have been.
It's a shame that a vocal unhappy minority ruins it for the silent, yet happy, majority.

My perfect solution would be a system that would not accept any negative postings, LOL. Maybe there will be a computer with a brain in the future that will work that way, huh? One that would not transmit any words with derogatory or negative connotations? And how about:

A "Negativity" Forum ... where all the whiners, complainers, argumentative types could go for their ranting and raving. Just have it set up so that there is NOT a "Contact Us" link ... so no one would be able to contact, complain and bother Admin.

The Forum would need to be automatically set up to send all the negativity into cyber space, after say ... every twenty five posts? And anyone posting on the forum would be banned from site. There could be a WARNING at the top of the forum that says:

"IF YOU POST HERE, YOUR COMPUTER WILL AUTOMATICALLY FREEZE UP AND YOUR ACCESS TO DG WILL CEASE FOREVER!

That way, we'd have no negativity on any threads! Can you imagine? I know there's much more positive than negative on DG, thank goodness, but I have seen a few folks get out of hand and out of control at times. I can only imagine what Dave & Co. go through having to baby-sit all these forums, having to chastise the "kids" and give warnings about unacceptable behavior. DG Administration has enough work to do keeping the business and this site up and running, not to mention their own personal day to day family responsibilities! What a shame they have to deal with complaints too!

I Love this place called Dave's Garden, A garden of happiness, caring, learning and sharing that hopefully will remain an enjoyable place for us all, for many years to come.

Thank you Dave, Trish, and everyone else in Admin. who work so hard tending this garden!