coop forum?

If you have to worry about the cost of the website, start charging EVERYONE for access.

Right now only a small percent of your members are paying members, we are carrying the cost for the rest..who choose NOT to join.

We're not here to force anyone to buy from anyplace. As a subscriber, you have the option to completely turn off ads, and if you don't want to visit the Marketplace or classifieds, you don't have to.

I can assure you that we have repeatedly encouraged participants and organizers to resolve their personal disputes with the tools they have available.

Unfortunately, people often decide to use other forums and dmail to try to hold their own court of public opinion, which is disruptive to the community. Yes, we can discipline those members; but by the time we become aware of a problem, the drama may have infected other forums and members--those are hard situations to unravel.

And the problem with vendors misusing the co-ops was a chronic problem. Our efforts to approach organizers with our concerns was usually met with strong resistance--they had established relationships with the vendors, and didn't want to be hampered by the rules. If we had pulled the plug on all those co-ops, many of you here today would have been just as upset with that decision.

I would hope that everyone would do two things:

1) Give us some credit for acting in the community's best interest and not having a knee-jerk reaction (this issue has been brewing for a long time, even though for the most part we've kept the worst of the problems offline); and

2) Give the good organizers and vendors some time to adjust and see if they don't offer similar good deals within the marketing opportunities available to them.

As to who's bearing the cost, non-subscribers are shown ads that subscribers can turn off. And their access to the site is limited to the free areas.

I agree that the decision to pull with no community discussion clearly shows this is a limited community, one that is not "Our Garden" but clearly "Dave's" so that our input is not required to make major decisions which matter to us.

I subscribed through 2011 when the rate increase was announced. I have made incredible friendships here that I would never abandon, but I don't need to subscribe to visit with friends, only to be in co-ops.

Such unilateral decisions have occurred on other occasions; this is another reminder that though DG is an incredible website, it is owned by a entity, not us. We're only customers.

A lead time before closure would have been thoughtful. Some folks have already laid groundwork for future co-ops (for example, I've already been in contact with Peter at Pacific Calla, who has gone out of his way to find certain colors for our spring co-op, which would have been the 4th successful and evolving co-op with them)

So it goes.....once again, individual responsibility has been removed.

I'm truly sorry that administration has been put in this position.... I'm happy I had the opportunity to work with the folks I did on "my" co-ops.

I do understand both sides of this discussion. I do have one request that might make it easier for those of us who truly do love our co-ops and have successfully run them... I would not completley object to running a quasi co-op through the classifieds if it had the capability of having running chat/discussion threads instead of just the blurb/ad. There are a zillion questions asked repeatedly and the discussion threads answer those questions so effectivly for all interested in the items. I have personally considered placing a classified ad before but shied away due to the prospect of the hundreds of the same d-mail questions instead of "chat threads"

I love davesgarden.com. I get so much help here. I love the photos and the information and the people. The co-ops were the icing on the cake. I only discovered them last winter when I had cabin fever and I was going crazy for gardening. I spent way too much $ on way more than I could ever plant. I only just recently had a few bad bulbs and surprisingly the vender stood by them. I didn't expect it since it was a co-op, the prices were so good to begin with and as you say, we participate at our own risk. Which, over a year's worth of co-ops here and there, the risk turned out to not be much per plant considering how much we got.

I'm very sorry to see the co-ops go. I planned on repeating my mistakes again this winter! But I'm not leaving the site for a moment. This is where I go to get away from it all. And I'm always recommending this site to anyone that will listen. (But I will keep wishing Dave will change his mind and bring the co-ops back ^_^. )

2 cents:

*If davesgarden.com really needed $ (and I highly doubt that is what this is about), they could raise rates by $1, or charge non-members a couple bucks per quarter, etc. I'm sure they have plenty of ways they could come up with extra cash. I don't see how $ had anything to do with this decision. It was probably all about gripes.

*I haven't found any deals on the Marketplace or Classified Forum that can match the co-ops I've been in.

*We do need a more specific "search" on the Marketplace and Classified forum (or at least I do).

^_^


This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 11:30 PM

catmad--if I'm not mistaken I don't think there ever is a page 2 (or higher) of classifieds. They run for a certain length of time and are either renewed or replaced by the next paid ad. There just don't seem to be so many ads running at the same time that it will ever run to page 2 +

Hope that helps with that question:)

The Marketplace needs to be improved dramatically to make it more user friendly fro sellers & buyers.

In March 2006, Dave wrote:

To be clear: co-ops are enjoyed AT YOUR OWN RISK and we are not going to be policing them. There WILL be problems, and you are responsible for policing yourself to minimize your own losses. Buyer beware and proceed at your own peril! :-)

dave

Apparently he didn't mean it then. Why are they policing now?

Well that's too bad. What sucks is Dave and Terry are doing what is right for them, which is not necessarily right for everyone, and you can't please everyone. It happens with businesses everywhere, they have problems with a few bad apples so they cut the service completely because it hits the pocketbook too hard which makes it ridiculous to deal with, ruining something for a bunch of good apples. If this keeps happening, and it will, there will be nothing left for the good apples, not just here but everywhere.

This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 5:56 PM

OK, so langbr, Brenda, where are these co-ops on the net that you were talking about?

I buy from Marketplace as often or more than I bought thru the co-ops. In fact I have a plant coming now. I just got a gorgeous order from a co-op. One bulb wasn't quite right to be used as a gift so the vendor replaced it. Very good transaction, no heartburn for either one of us.

I use ebay also. I buy from Costco, Wal Mart, and Sears on line.

You see, I live in a rural community, 80 miles from a city. Makes it kind of rough to get in on "sales". Therefore I find my sales/deals on line.

If I have a problem I deal with the vendor. I don't run crying to someone else to settle it for me. If I don't get any satisfaction from the vendor, I just don't buy from them any more and if the situation warrants, I leave bad feedback.

Wow, this is a disappointment. I've just recently joined DavesGarden, and have participated in two wonderful coops already. I was looking forward to others.

There are certainly many wonderful things here, but the coops were one feature I was advertising to friends as a big reason to splurge and pay for membership.

Bummer:-(

It's a shame administration only means what it says 'some' of the time. At your own risk means - you're responsible for yourself (to the rest of the world). Not policing - means letting them (us) figure it out on their (our) own. Feedback is placed to allow you to check your sellers. Vendors not selling on the coop forum is a different subject. If it's against the 'rules' they should be pulled off. Policing is punishing the wrong doer - not punishing the general user/public.If you're going to police - do it! However, it's only 'our' site if it meets their guidelines and guidelines are an interpretive framework. Some coops have apparently been interpreted to be faulty.

It's a shame we're at this juncture. Coops will be greatly missed as will the 'community' they generated. The Marketplace isn't a substitute - it's not about cost associated with the ad placement nor the % fees charged to vendors; those are trivial. It's about convenience and social connecting opportunities with other like minded gardeners/addicts/collectors, especially in this pinched economy.

I'll miss the connecting and convenience - most of the forums are not quite the same.

Dave's just doesn't seem like the same friendly place I first found. I have enjoyed it so much, and couldn't wait to get on every morning! Not so much, any more. So sad.

I have participated in several co-ops and hosted one on my own- I've gotten some really good deals - tried growing some plants I wouldn't have tried otherwise -broke even on co-op-- - One problem I have seen is those members who are also vendors who have NOT been approached in offering their goods to a co-op - which is the same reaqson they aren't selling on the marketplace - THEY are not willing to be flexible and offer a Good deal ------and they think someone is making money without them and cutting them out of a good thing --- proof of the good deals is the fact that some vendors also purchase on the co-ops

Esther Sams


This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 4:46 PM

I agree with Doe41, just not a fun place anymore :(

as for the Marketplace being an alternative to co-ops...that is absolutely ridiculous!
an example would be the current Atlas Glvoe co-op I am running, the current orders total $3,300. for me to put out 3,300+ dollars to save on gloves and cross my fingers that I couls sell them all would be absolutely ridiculous! and.... at that 3% fee that DG would be collecting... DG would make $100 off those same gloves!

As for vendors doing the co-ops... those co-ops should have immediately been shut down the moment that they hit the co-op thread. and the vendors should have had their memberships cancelled immediately, for breaking the rules. instead, the co-ops were allowed to continue, and other vendor/dgers saw that it was an uninforced rule and if so-n-so could do it then why cant I...etc.

I am not aware of any members who asked DG to step in and fix a bad co-op. I am however aware of the "feedback system" and unfortunately found out for myself why no one uses it. It is very unfortunate when a member leaves valid negative feedback, and then they are blasted by other members, with threatening and intimidating dmails and DG Admin does nothing to the members who are threatening or intimidating. I now know why people do not use the feedback system, I WONT be intimidated into removing negative feedback, but I do feel that in order for the feedback system to work, DG SHOULD police those members who are doing the intimidation.

I have run several very successful co-ops and have had no complaints on any of the co-ops I hosted. I have never asked DG to step in and help me collect from non-payers, I compenstated with other co-opers to make up for the loss. I have never complained to DG Admin about a bad co-op hostess. Why am I being punished?

If we are hostessing and participating at our own risk.... I dont understand why DG Admin is shutting down co-ops now? other than to make a profit on the DG Marketplace.

The atlas glove co-op is only at $3300 right now.... can and will get even higher than that when it is done.... so that $100 profit grows immensely as the co-op grows!



{edited to say that I now understand that the reason fro the shut down has nothing to do with profit. I apologize for making that assumption. I did not realize the mass amounts of mail the help desk was receiving because of the co-ops. }

This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 4:58 PM

I agree with Anjl, I can keep in touch with my friends by phone and e-mail. AND we can still swap seeds, and bulbs, and cuttings, without the complainers!

Leaving DG altogether seems to be cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. It remains a wonderful place for lots of great people with a common interest to connect on a personal level. If I were to email and/or call all the lovely friends I "see" each day here, I'd do nothing else at all. No, DG is a keeper...on some level...absolutely.

I'm currently hosting a co-op that has sold well over $5,000 in seed total to date and 110 participants. I am told by many many people that it has been very well ran. I communicate with my participants and I have a good relationship with the vendor. It has been a very smooth operation. And as far as I know, all of the participants have been happy.

I plan to do another co-op in the spring with the same vendor... be it on DG or not.

So if you folks know of a place we can hold co-ops and such, please let me know!!!

Thanks,
Donna

Good luck, Donna!

Forgive me, Dave and Terry...I am feeling a bit bewildered and overwelmed! I am just getting this information... My page is also my home page, too....I am sure that there are many others like me out there that do not even know about this new information! Now that the shock is wearing off...

I must say I agree with the well-stated comments of my garden group above. The co-ops, even with "buyer beware", have been the cornerstone to DG. Not only do we have such great sources of information here, but a unique way of coming together to help each other to buy at wholesale prices! I have not been in a co op to-date that I felt there was a problem with. (Well, one that had lower than expected quality in plugs, but it was not the hostess's fault, but I will never give that company my business.) "Buyer beware". That being understood, I would never have even thought to complain to DG administration.

I, too, would have appreciated the information up-front of any situations in my community of gardeners. I, too, would have appreciated banning such participants or vendors that have broken your general rules of operation. I really resent having this part of DG being dropped. I have gotten some really great products at fantastic prices here. At the state of our economy now, it is difficult for those on limited incomes. For the people in very rural areas, the co ops opened up opportunities to get unusual and new products at great savings. I am saddened that we all have to pay for the few's mistakes. I am sorry, but I feel like a child also being punished for the mistakes of a few.

I am not leaving DG, but I believe that this decision may prevent several current members from renewing their membership, which will effect the rest that remain. I too, believe that my membership allowed me the unique opportunity of participating in the co ops. I am truly saddened. I urge you to please reconsider. Open up a thread for comments to get a balanced discussion going and to get ideas from your community. Involve all of us. Please.

Marketplace is another opportunity, but it cannot in our eyes even be looked at as a reasonable substitute for all the reasons already presented. If someone needs to make a profit, that means the price to all is higher...and the risk also much higher to the seller to order several hundred or thousands of product BEFORE they sell...it will never happen in a way to come close to running a good co op. For example, Fairy's stated her co op was several thousands of dollars! Both of her co ops were run so very well, both Spring and Fall. THAT will never happen on that scale of participation on the Marketplace. (Hope it was ok for me to mention your name on that comment, Fairy...but you did a fabulous job!) For the record, I feel privileged to have participated in many very well run co ops and my garden thanks you all, too.

I just want it to go on record that I disagree with not only the decision, but how the decision was made. I will, like many others, now have to seek outside of DG for my co op opportunities...but no matter where, I go into it with my eyes open and it will be at my own risk. I just hope it could be here...

Please open this up for discussion, as you have so many times with issues that affect us all, Dave...
Regretfully,
RatherB

perhaps taking co-ops off of Dave's Garden would be the best solution that would work for everybody.

Well said, RatherB.

I too would not have known about the Co-Ops being closed if i didnt inadvertently click on a thread this morning.

There were co-ops I was planning on joining in on next Spring... ones I've participated in in the past, and got items at a great price -- and with out those prices, i could not normally spend that much on plants.

the Co-Ops have [did] open up a new world of gardening to me [and helped make my experiences here at Daves so much more enjoyable].... without the Co-Ops these are things i never would have thought about buying.
and each and every one of them i went into 'at my own risk' and each and every one of them were well run by each hostess.

It is a sad day here at Daves.

All members should check out the classifieds more often.
I ran an ad for gladiolus corms last spring. I had a number of customers. I watched the Gladiolus co-op recently & was bewildered at the prices they were charging.

I also visit various plant forums. A member out west sent me a box of Dahlia tubers for postage. Lots of beautiful colors & some very expensive if you were to buy them. 53 varieties in all!

Go to a Round Up! You will trade plants with fellow DGer"s and get to meet them & any of their wisdom.

Over half my flowers are results of these kind of activities, all free!!

I did participate in a few co-ops myself.
I was overwhelmed by the number of people who didn't follow directions & etc.

Bernie

Out of all the responders, I've seen only ONE NAYSAYER! That says a lot!

OK, make that TWO! I don't live close to anywhere where there is going to be a roundup! It would cost me hundreds of $ to go to one! I don't consider that free! I haven't found ANYTHING on the ckassifieds that I could afford, that I wanted or needed! I usually can't find what I'm looking for. So I don't go back to look. I'm on a fixed income, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy my plants I've gotten here. NOT from the classifieds!

I see you don't check Round Up forum. I traveled 823 miles to go to KY RU, which is in your backyard.
I had a whale of a time!

Bernie

Adding; you can always start one in your area. There are probably people itching to go to one.
I host one at my farm every fall. Not a great big crowd, but we have a good time!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/863305/

This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 8:10 PM

I've only joined in a couple of co-op's since being a subscriber to DG. I had no idea there were problems with any of them.

I will miss the great deals! I was really looking forward to another Novosel Enterprises Co-Op in spring but can always just buy direct from the company. I unfortunately just won't receive the really good savings on bulk purchases as we did in the recent Co-Op.

I know Admin. does what is best for the entire DG community and must have had good reason to discontinue the Co-Op Forum.

It's unfortunate that this thread happened on a Saturday, a day when I spent the entire day in my garden plowing, harrowing, planting, and sowing (and harrowing some more) and watering.

I come home looking forward to a nice evening and this is what I find instead. A mob of angry members accusing me of profiteering.

As if over the past 8 years I haven't demonstrated time and again that every action I take is for the best interest of this community.

The bottom line here is that, despite our clear rules over the co-op forum, and our clear warning that they are "enter at your own risk", we CONSTANTLY deal with people breaking the rules. We frequently get complaints from members to our administration helpdesk and we have to explain to them why they got burned by someone on this website.

I'm sick and tired of people abusing the system over and over again (and at least two of our most chronic offenders are among the posters in this thread).

I'm sick of having a member come to us, saying that they got ripped off, and all we can do is shrug our shoulders and say "Well, you knew it was an 'enter at your own risk type of deal'.

None of you are exposed to that, but I guess you never stopped to consider that we had a problem on our hands to deal with.

No, we don't need extra money. The marketplace is 6 months old and there has been over $25,000 in sales, and I have not even billed anybody for their use of it. We haven't made a dime off it and I don't feel the compulsion to do so. Financial matters are never a priority for me, as those who actually know me understand. They never have and they never will.

The co-op forum is finished and I for one am glad to have that headache gone. If someone wants to go find some other place to do co-ops they are welcome to have the headaches that come along with it all to themselves.

As for the marketplace, I'm happy to work to extend it to accommodate any new needs that may arise. You are welcome to use it as a replacement for the co-ops.

And for those of you who are still angry with me, then there's nothing I'm able or willing to say to change your mind.

I live on a fixed income, am disabled, and live in a retirement community. I couldn't hold one if I could afford it. And I didn't have the spare money to go to KY. to that roundup, though I DID know about it.

Aw RatherB-you have me blushing and thank you for the compliment.

I too agree that I wish there had been some kind of discussion. A warning about a week ago and then BAM!! I already had 3 more co-ops planned for this next year. A local couple that sells daylilies, they have 3 feilds and GREAT prices, another bulb one and another fall perennial one...

If ANYONE knows where we can do more co-ops outside of DG, PLEASE let me know. I tried the yahoo ones and that is complete BULL-she overcharges to make a profit off tags and shipping and double charges, and runs so many at a time that like someone else said, you get dead things, things in JULY of all times and then have to double pay for shipping.

A curiosity??-what if we posted on our existing co-op thread, that any who are interested in future co-ops with us, please dmail their email addresses for contact?? Or if we sent a blast to current participants?? Would that be allowed?? I am not trying to overlook the rules, but trying to find an opportunity to allow my fellow DGers a wonderful opportunity again. Since we are not vendors, I don't see this as a sales pitch or advertising....

I understand why DG Admin wouldn't want to spend their time dealing with something they said wasn't their responsibility, but if we are looking at this from a logical standpoint: % of bad apples VS. % of good apples=good apples win, not loose....also, if we are paying for a service, then that would make us the customers, and while I don't agree with the old addage "the customer is always right", I think you try to take care of them

If the marketplace is to be all we are left with it isn't feasable for things like this-there is no way to have communication as was stated B4-if there was a way to adjust that forum, then there may be possibilities there, but right now there aren't. For instance-it was suggested that I start smaller-for 1 case of 4 flats, it is almost $1000-again, I don't even have the money for the smallest allowed order:( Maybe for other things the marketplace is great, but not for this purpose. I have noticed that things are for the most part way overcharged there and that a lot of people are now selling their plants/seeds instead of trading....


Sorry-probably more than my 2 cents worth, but like everyone else here, just leaving my opinion. At least we are allowed to do that...

PS-I truly don't think the decision was made just for profit, but for less headaches, which I beleive there will still be headaches, just of a different nature, but more than likey from some of the same peeps

IRISLOVERDEE-if you EVER decide to let us do another co-op with you, LMK and I will find a way with every beat of my heart to make it happen-it was the best one I have ever been in for plants!!! Selection, quality and price!!

well, I guess we are done then since it took me forever to make that last one as several others were typed.

No, Dave. I personally don't think (and I personally believe that many others are in the same court) that your decision was made for profit...I just wished that if you had frequent offenders to the rules, that you would have punished them instead of the people that benefit from them. Dropping the offenders from the membership, I think, would have been more fair. Or to post publically the major offenders or the issue at hand? But, you have spoken and that is that.

Please consider the option that Fairy has presented. Please allow us to make contact with each other for this purpose, in some way. Would it be possible to post a thread for ideas on how to make it work?
RatherB

If we can just be left with some option...a way to contact peeps.....I don't want to overstep the rules and that is why I asked the ?? I did, if I can get them answered I would appreciate it....

IN TOTAL SHOCK!

I would hope that all the heartfelt expressions of concern for losing our co-oping priviledges would cause Dave and Terry to slow down and think about what they are actually taking away from their members.

There has been a few disputes on a couple of co-ops. We are adults that chose to participate at our own risk. I agree 100% with what everyone has stated already and also agree that I feel like we are being treated like children.

When the DG company was caught in the middle and could possibly be held liable for a coop gone bad, I understood your concern. Now that it was left to us to decide and you released yourselves from all liability, I dont understand why you would still feel it necessary to step in.
I am actually insulted that DG has made a decision for me after you covered yourself by saying it was my risk.

Out of over 400,000 subscribers and about 35,000 paying members and out of about 200 people who participate in various coops and probably less that 20 people that host them, we have had a few disgruntled people. Unless I missed it, I didnt see any screaming cursing fights. I think I have more than that in my own family. I think banning coops was an extreme overreaction.

I cannot for the life of me, figure out how you would make a decision that would so deeply affect some of your most dedicated members just to get rid of a few arguments.
I dont save millions of dollars in coops but participating and being on the teams that host them is priceless to me!
A simple way of getting around companies that get people to run coops for them would be for us (the participants) to require hosts to be paying members for at least 2 years prior to hosting a coop. That would also stop most of the new folks who think its so easyyyyyyy, from biting off more than they can chew, even though they have very good intent.

Slamming the door on all of us, because of the mistakes and immaturity of a few is a unjust
punishment. It doesnt work and causes very hard feelings.

I am very disappointed at this decision!

Chris



This message was edited Nov 10, 2008 7:01 PM

After the countless hours of uncompensated time the hosts have spent organizing the co-ops, I am disappointed that none of us were contacted about this decision. I am not an abuser, I don't think anyone complained about me, and I am a member. Truly, would it have hurt to try to include us in a solution, instead of making an arbitrary decision? I understand that it is easier, but sometimes easy isn't the best choice when making a decision that affects so many devoted members of DG. I am truly saddened by this turn of events.
I talk to vendors about DG all the time - about the wonderful community atmosphere, the cheap advertising rates, and the number of members. I'm sure others do as well. That's what members do, they support each other. And isn't that what DG is about?
In the balance, total number of complaints vs. total number of satisfied DG members - where do the scales tip? Sometimes, the bad seems to outweigh the good, especially when dealing with complaints, until we really stop and look at all the facts. That is what I would like to request that Dave and Terry do, for the good of all the members.
If there is any way I can assist in this endeavor, please feel free to contact me.

I started writting my post before Dave's statements, so I guess it will fall on deaf ears now.
I just want to add that I dont think this decision had anything to do with money!!

This is just the easiest way to not deal with complaints.

I for one would like you to keep telling the complainers what you stated that you say...
I'm sick of having a member come to us, saying that they got ripped off, and all we can do is shrug our shoulders and say "Well, you knew it was an 'enter at your own risk type of deal'.


Oh Well

What a shame!!!

Fairy1004 said:
"If ANYONE knows where we can do more co-ops outside of DG, PLEASE let me know. I tried the yahoo ones and that is complete BULL-she overcharges to make a profit off tags and shipping and double charges, and runs so many at a time that like someone else said, you get dead things, things in JULY of all times and then have to double pay for shipping."

I had asked about getting in touch with members via Dmail regarding a Southern plant buying co-op to address the problem of getting plants in July, etc. I had tried the Yahoo! co-op and found it to be unreasonable in it's layout, prices, shipping, tags, timing, etc.

Here is the response I received:

"Hi Maggi,

Our AUP doesn't allow members to use the forums or dmail to promote
another website or business (regardless of whether it would
potentially compete with DG, complement what we offer, or be totally
outside of the scope of Dave's Garden.) To be fair and consistent, we
have to apply this rule across-the-board.

What you could do and stay within the rules would be to act as a
vendor: you can use the classifieds and/or DG Marketplace to offer
plants for sale (but not to solicit membership to your website.)

Please let us know if we can answer any other questions, or help in
any way!

The problem is that I am a 'vendor' and could not start co-ops myself. People who know me and know my situation volunteered to do Brug co-ops. The first one was to move out one-gallon Brugs that were left from the 1,400+ my DH started last Fall. That first co-op was done AFTER we took dozens of one-gallon Brugs to the Jacksonville co-op to GIVE them away. The second was to offer Brug cuttings this Fall - cuttings that would have totally gone to waste had they not done the co-op, a big freeze is bound to come and kill all that good cutting wood, and it will come soon.

It is unworkable to post a classified ad for hundreds of cuttings of so many varieties and manage that through email. Emails get lost in the 'ether' or get overlooked inadvertently. The Marketplace does not work either, for many reasons, not the least of which are those folks who 'join' Dave's Garden, make a purchase the day they 'join' and are never heard from again.

As a person looking to gain some sort of 'retirement security' I have started a small nursery here at our home. To stock the nursery for local sales I rely on co-ops because I cannot afford to offer the variety of plants I need to when I am required to buy flats of 72+ of ONE plant at anywhere from .50 to $2.00 plus per plant from any given wholesaler. My business is a small start-up and at most I need 15 to 20 of one variety, some to sell here and some to plant in the garden to see how they perform over time.

I am not looking to make a huge profit on a co-op or on the Marketplace. I am looking to (firstly) clear my greenhouses (small home-built hoophouses by the way) of plant material I cannot afford to keep over the winter, in order to (secondly) stock the small numbers of things I need to have for sale here early next Spring.

For the record, I have never used a 'shill'. Both Brug co-ops were suggested to me by friends who realized the quantity and quality of plant material we had and have that will go to the compost pile rather than giving others the opportunity to enjoy it in their gardens at extremely reasonable cost.

As to the whiners - I did send 2 Dmails to one co-op participant (not in the Brug co-ops by the way) after the person was unreasonable both on the co-op forum and in private Dmails. There was no intimidation on my part, I only laid out the facts of the case and told the person to stop the ugliness.

There, kick me off now if you want to.



This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 10:03 PM