coop forum?

Well Dave and Terry,
Why don't you just do as you say and IGNORE the NAY SAYERS who complain about the co-ops that they entered at their own risk!!
Don't answer them, ignore them. They are adults not children. They will over time not get into co-ops. And soon you will have NO ONE to police!!
You have hundreds of angry DGers and ...How many abusers and complainers? Did you say 2 here and many on the site? Compare the loss of US to THEM?? Do you want most of your subscribers to find other places to go?? What is the REAL reason? Something is not right for you to risk hundreds of people here who favor co-ops to some, few or several who have issues??? Name them and refuse them any solace should they continue to enter co-op land.
WE LOVE CO-OPs!!
Well I almost got kicked off here for saying the market place would change everything!! I was against
it as i knew it would cause changes. This was the one I feared most....And it has come true!!
Please think again!!
This was one of the BEST benifits of Daves!
Satisfy MOST of your subscribers not a few!!!!!
Julie

And how many paying subscribers do you have?

I think the issue isn't money, or how many paid subscribers.

I think the real issue is the ugliness that some have felt the need to generate on the forums and in correspondence with the administration. These people - Dave and Terry and others - have to read that ugliness and respond. It must surely be a heavy load.

Ok, I gonna jump in here too.

I am a part of this community and would like to say this. Getting upset and angry is not going to help anybody. Yes, I am upset too and thought somebody was tryign to pull my leg when they said it was closed as I had been looking at another co-op to join.

I like others, had to try and to find out what happened and what went wrong. I would like to say to those that did try and police and those that unwatched in order to try and keep this from happening, Thank you for showing good judgement and resistraint. I commend you.

Now I gift out seeds and plants, I sell on the classified some times and on the Market Place and I am a vendor, yet I buy from folks on the folks on the classified, been havign a great time shopping on the MarketPlace to fill my new passions thanks to enabling Dg'ers on the forums that so graciously share their loves and passions. I also have been gifted seeds and plants. I have bought from the co-ops. I love being able to get what I want as a small vendor and not havign to buy a whole flat of something.

Dave has been trying to help all of us out tryign to get us things we ask for and answer questions and such. All ya have to do is look at the Daves page to see that. We may not always agree with his decisions, but he has always struck me as a person, him and Terry that tries to take the community of us the hundedsof thousands that we are into consideration.

Dave.... I have asked several times for subdivisions of the categories in the market place to be expanded out as it is darn near impossible as a buyer, not a seller to try and go back and find an ad you looked at last week and now decided you wanted to buy or had the money to purchase it. I do hope Dave that you will please try and break it down more. It is not fun, trying to go back 30 pages to see if an item is still available and I too when tryign to do a search come up with everythign but what I looking for. So again, Please I am asking will you please add sub categories.

I think if people would calm down a bit and give things time , you will see that things will work out. We have several vendors that put up classified ads all the time and offer discount codes to Dg members. I think if you give it time you will see the Dg members step-up and place the classified ads with the discounts still the same or even more so.

The way I see it, if somebody interested in getting certain plants at discounted prices, somebody can still contact the vendor. The vendors can take out an and and put there discounted prices or discount codes up and how many they have of that item. I have seen classified all the time where the number of product was listed. The only thing I would like to see is that the people placing the ads if they say offer up 60 plants of somethign and 30 of another and 20 of somethign else, that they would as the dmails and emails came in be allowed to have an edit button to go back change the totals so folks would know if something was sold out or not before sending the dmails.

Times are tough all over for folks, so much destruction from storms and uncertain futures and our plants are our one few pleasure as we try to cope with what happening around us in the world today.

We were warned before about the co-ops and I very much doubt that Dave will change his mind, but there may yet be a rainbow.

Some things on the Market Place seem high, but those are vendors alot who left ebay and the hassles there and are Dg'ers and shouldn't be faulted for how they make their living. We have a choice of not to hit the commit button or not. Unfortunately, I have no will power when I see that button and have to click it. : )

I think that also, if people ask and given time , you will see alot of other vendors big and small placing ads on the classified and trying to help keep gardeners going and you may find that some of them will go out of their way and do whatever they can to try and still make sure that all of us on budgets are still able to get plants and put color in our worlds at very near the same prices. You may have to get from three different sources instead of one, but there a lot of great vendors on here who really care.

Another thing to think about, your plants will now be drop shipped or handled only once. That means for alot of the plants that they wont be traveling three or even four times. It will also free up hosts and hostesses to hopefully be able to spend more time chatting on the threads and spreading their knowdlege and friendly personalities.

Which is the only downside I see so far. Our chat threads.

Dave, alot of friendships and passions to get out there and try new plants and gardening experiences comes from the co-op chat threads. I am sittign here with a bucnh of newly arrived seeds from a coop that I have not the foggiest idea what I have or would have bought if not encouraged by others. I am excited to learn to give them a try.

If we may, could we please, if we see a classified listed that we think might be interesting to folks, continue to post in the main forums a Hey have ya seen this and a link to the classified, and then if we want to discuss it or the plants continue a chat about it under it or maybe this....

I realize that you would not want to see all of a sudden tons of classified ads all plastered in one forum at a time, but maybe you could put a classified ad chat only section thread. That way folks could all gather and chat about what things might be good to buy or if somebody having a problem tryign to figure out to work the classfied section or will this grow here do ya think type stuff folks could still all gather there.

I for one am not gonna let this coop closing get to me. I belive it will work itself back out somehow to the advantage of all of us again. We have had alot of very good hosts and hostesses and I thank all of them for the time and energy they put out for us to be able to buy. I hope that maybe they will try and find vendors for us now that will place classified ads and if Dave permits the chat threads about them, you will still consider leading us as your leadership skills have helped alot of folks to form friendships that may not have coem as fast as they did on the regular forums or at all.

Now thanks to some enablers , I have another new passion and want some Dahlia tubers I can afford so if anybody finds a Dahlia person with some good prices to pt a ad on the classified, please, let me know. : )

I've only been on the Admin team a few months and complaints from the co-op forum have been a regular occurrence. Despite the fact that it is clearly posted on the forum that folks should enter in to a co-op at their own risk, when one goes sour, we have multiple requests to step in. Even though it is clearly stated that we are not responsible, folks think we ought to be.

You suggest that we ignore the complaints. When the helpdesk is full of them, it is not that easy. (and it is)

I've been at DG since there were less than 400 members. Dave has never once chosen profit over the good of the community.

Never once

If the only reason that you come to DG is for the co-ops, you are missing a vital and wonderful community, and it is very sad that you feel this way.

The co-ops have been a thorn in Dave's side since the very beginning, he's such a gentleman that he has put up with the chronic abuse.

And for those who think that there are tens of thousands of paying members, that is hardly the case. Dave will have to give you the exact figures, but it is hardly the case.

Shoot. This is bad news. I was so happy when the co-ops started up again. I have bought so many perennials and houseplants through co-ops over the years. Sigh.

I just went thru the co-op forum and looked up every co-op host/hostess that hosted a co-op since January of this year.
I counted roughly 53 different people who hosted a co-op.

I then went in and checked the feedback of each of those host/hostesses.

there is negative feedback for only 4 of them!

looks like one particular co-op was really bad and had all negative feedback, the other three had a few disgruntled people.



This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 10:37 PM

Dave only has to follow what he has stated to relieve himself of any frustrations over co-ops...IGNORE THE COMPLAINERS!!!! Hit delete, Hang up, Hit 'esc', say 'read the warnings',etc!!!
Just do what he said....He would NOT police them and 'enter at your own risk'??
Why choose to stand for 'Them" instead of 'US' (those who like co-ops)???
What is ailling the world today is exactly what Dave has fallen prey to!!
People do not want to accept responsibility so they pass it off to .....
DAVE!!!
Dave quit being the fall guy, the nice guy the good guy!!
Tell 'em to read your lips...NO SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!!!!!!! Enter Co-OPs at your OWN RISK!!!
AND stop fending for these idiots!!!
This is not a site problem it is your problem!
Thinking you have to please complainers!!!! Why don't you feel the same way about US??????
People who use the co-ops and love em???? We Have our little issues but suck it up and don't expect others to solve them especially not the Administration who warned you in the first place!!
This is a great SLAP in the face to loyal, faithful DGERS!!! Anyone who punishes ALL to satisfy the few
is doing the members who love you and this site a great disservice.
It is a punishment to the loyal members ...
and a 'SHAME ON YOU' for meeting out a broad based retraction based on so few abusers!!!!
I am shocked at the heavy handedness and sweeping conviction of this Administrative Action.
Also SAD!
Julie

Julie

i did my first co-op Spring of 2007 ... i've probably done 8 or 9 in that 18 month time period... i have/had no idea there was an area to post feedback.

IMHO -- i think this is a dead issue.

I think the Co-Ops are over and all the begging and pleading is not going to change anyone's mind.

Hopefully - hosts can find places to do co-ops if they still want to host them.

I know there are many that were in the works for next spring.

i just wanted to add one more thing.... while i think this stinks for the same reasons as most of you.... yelling at Dave or other Admin, is not going to change their minds.

It's been said by Dave, Terry and Melody that the Co=Ops have been nothing but a "thorn" in his side. So, why wouldnt he/they want that over with.

yes, all things calm down in time, some folks move on .... its just the way things go.

I think that there is more angry, hard feelings and disappointed people on this thread than in all the coops put together. Sounds like most of us feel we are being punished.

This is sad. I had hoped it wouldn't happen again.
I remember when co-ops were closed before. And how happy everyone was to get them back....I seem to remember Dave saying it was against his better judgment to reopen them even then. I think that will not happen a second time. I also can't help but feel that there was more to this than met the eye, it had to be a major headache for Dave to close them again.
I hope someone can come up with an acceptable alternative. I had to move a year ago and most of my wonderful plants, almost all, had to be left behind. I'm just now starting over from scratch. I know, life happens....guess it's time to make lemonade.
And for the one co-op I've been able to participate in since my relocation, thank you DonnaA2Z for making it a wonderful one. I so appreciate the extra mile you went for me to get my seeds.

Just to add my 2 cents, I am participating in a co-op now, which is my first time to do so. I would like to see the co-ops stay, and if there are people out there who are screwing over some of the members of DG through these co-ops, then they should be punished. Banned from doing anymore co-ops or from selling in the marketplace or from DG altogether. I agree with many others here, that it is unfair to punish the many good ones along with the few bad ones.

Others have pointed out that if DG doesn't want to do any policing, then those complaining about bad deals in co-ops should be referred back to the 'Enter at your own risk" clause. I would agree there. You said you weren't going to be policing, and you warned people that there could be bad deals to be had.

I, like so many others here, am sad to see co-ops go. I wish it could have been put to a vote to the DG members. Seems a lot of us don't want to see co-ops end.

Karen

It's a shame people feel the need to whine. Nobody like a complainer. It's a shame administration needs to listen or try not to. I wouldn't like having to screen the 'whining', I might not like coming to visit so much. I will miss the coops and Dave's won't be so wonderful without them.

Let's see if we can't find a way to use the tools that may still be available to our advantage to try to support co op like purchasing volumes for those that want them. A 'market place' chat thread would go along way toward supporting those of us still interested in finding vendors to host 'buying opportunities' and providing social buying connections. An avenue for vendors to list items available and edit them as purchases are made would also be great. Let's leave the whiners behind.

I agree, if there is a chat area in the market place....so we would be able to see what exactly people would be interested in purchasing.... i would be more apt to buy in bulk and re-sell in the marketplace.
from everything I have seen in the marketplace so far... it was mainly vendors selling stuff for the same amount I could by from online websites. I did buy some brugs when it first opened...from a wonderful dger here. but shortly after it opened many vendors started appearing and the prices just arent feasable. for that I can go shop on ebay instead.

Might I remind everyone that Dave doesn't even own DG. He sold it to a corporation, remember? He and his team of Admins were asked to continue to maintain the site, as paid employees no doubt of this corporation.

http://davesgarden.com/namemedia.php

Figure the rest out for yourselves....

Donna

This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 3:15 AM

I think the Marketplace might be cost prohibitive on some co-ops. The hang-a-pots were thousands of dollars. That's a lot of money to front.

I am deeply saddened by the co-ops being closed.... I have been involved in quite a few and only have had good experiences ... seems to me that the co-ops will still go on in another fashion or just take our business elsewhere... it's just a matter of time... a shame Dave's is willing to loose that traffic going through here

Well, I'm sad, but I do understand. I have noticed a few co ops in the last year where I suspected the vendor was too involved- just had an inkling that they were basically running a co op with another member posting the rules. One such time I had received a private dmail from a member/vendor (who I'd never "met" on DG) advertising plants, and shortly thereafter noticed a co op being run through them. I see that kind of thing as a definite conflict of interest, and a covert way of getting free advertising. I hope to get in to vending some day, and in thinking of it from that side of the table, I would see it as an unfair advantage. Those vendors who do play by the rules, and pay out all the overhead involved with a business, end up losing orders to those who don't. I think we can all see that if those who are bending the rules are being rewarded financially for it, Dave, who has always shown the most upstanding character to me, would naturally feel ethically conflicted about it. While I'm the cheapest of cheap, and can sniff out a good deal like a bloodhound, I try to support upstanding vendors- honest people trying to make an honest living doing what they love.

So, I think we should put our brains together and keep coming up with ideas how we can still get good deals. I think there are some good ideas about using the Classified forum. Here's an idea I'm wondering about; what if a member posted in a classified ad "Interest in a Bulk Purchase from...."- with a link to perhaps a Yahoo groups page or a Myspace page, where the interest, details, and business could be worked out. The cost of the add would be pennies divided among participants, and no one would have to make a big purchase up front.

Would something like that work within the confines of the rules?
Neal

I'm bummed too, but I think I understand the necessity... I'm guessing it's not just a matter of responding to help desk emails, it's probably also that, unlike the Las Vegas ads, what happens in the co-op forum doesn't stay in the co-op forum. When ugliness spills over into other forum threads and Dmail exchanges, admin has to try to step in so this site remains the friendly place we've all come to love. That's probably a lot more work than just sending a brusque reminder to read the rules and realize admin can't/won't police the co-ops. I wish there had been a better way for us to self-police, but I admit I don't know what would have worked.

I especially liked starlight's post above... she's a wise lady. I will miss the co-ops, but I think we'll find other ways to help each other get great deals on plants and other garden "stuff."

I wonder how it would work out to allow the classified ads to be threads rather than single posts? That would allow space for discussion, answering questions, even (possibly) figuring out how much interest there would be in an offering ahead of time (posting an "interest" ad before a "sale" ad) so you'd be less likely to get stuck with 6000 extra kumquat seeds. A "chat" forum for the classifieds might work even better, as you could post a link from your ad to a thread in the chat forum and then have the opportunity to start additional threads there as needed (I'm especially thinking of how long some of our "chatty" co-op threads can get).

Is it currently possible to edit a post/ad in the classifieds or the marketplace once it's submitted? If not, that might be helpful also, so details could be clarified if necessary (eg, if you got a lot of Dmails asking the same question, you could include the answer in your ad post).

I'm sad and disappointed. I do understand the reasons, I guess. I either was not a member yet or was not aware when the forum was closed last time. It is so unfortunate when the majority loses because of the minority. Terry, I don't envy you having to defend this decision.

I truly do hope that while Dave, Terry & Melody are probably staying away from here, that they do take the time to look at some of the ?? here and answer them about some changes in the Marketplace and classifieds and other ?? that are valid and not angry rhetorical ??........I have seen defensive and or angry dmails from them, but no answers to the ??

At this point it is what it is, the decision won't be revoked and some of us are asking ?? about other ways to go about it within the rules set by DG....

maybe we need a new thread to discuss alternatives, since this thread seems to be largely occupied by venting and responses to venting...

Where should we put it?? What forum?? And do you think we could ask one of the admin to step in and answer ??

If I was them I wouldn't want to frequent here unless I had about 6 cocktails in me;)

I personally, would leave it in the Daves forum.

there are just too many forums for folks to search for it.

but -- yes i think a new thread would be a good idea.

Like many others here, Dave's is my home page. I'm disappointed about the co-ops closing but would certainly not consider leaving! The people here have become like an online family and I would not let them go just because I can't buy something with them.

I have done several daylily sales through the classifieds. They were not my plants but because I volunteer at the business I was considered a vendor too. These have gone very well with the use of e-mail for ordering and have grown in size each time.

Let's give Dave and Terry some credit here. They work hard to make this a successful community for us. Sharing the joy of gardening is much more important to me than getting good deals through co-ops.

Leslie

When I first joined, the co op forum had been shut down the first time, so when it started back up it was just an extra plus. So its certainly nothing that would make me reconsider my membership.

OK-I will start a CONSTRUCTIVE thread in this forum with suggestions/ideas for ways to work within Daves rules. I hope this is OK, if not I am sure admin will LMK, but I do invite them over for feedback and such-I think we all just want a way to be able to do this within the confines and rules here at DG

whoops, Fairy, I just posted one...

good idea.

This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 8:55 AM

I hope we didn't end up cross-posting. There hadn't been any responses on this thread for a while, so I figured we were all waiting for somebody to pick up the ball, LOL.

Here's the link to the thread for discussion alternatives to the co-op forum: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921953/

LOL-I was doing one at the same time!!LOL I guess it doesn't matter where you post, as long as it is constructive and ?? about certain things that we can and cannot do, I am hoping that will be a place Dave, Terry & Melody can help us out:)

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921955/

As much as I like partiipatinjg in our co-ops, I agree now is a time to end it, When the last more recent coops got totally out of hand. I was embarrassed to read the final put down between the two organizers. I'd already decided to never do business with them again, for the pure fact they were getting so personal & so evil with their comments. I don't need or want to be a part of ony on that ever again. Why would anyone drag your personal business into public. We need to give some folks more time to grow up or there's no place on here for their participation. Good job Terry & Dave.

I just want to jump in with a few comments.

To the poster who pointed out that "yelling" at the admin is probably not a good idea- that's real good advice. We don't particularly like to be yelled at :) In fact, the calmer the discussion, the more likely we are to listen.

To the poster who reminded us all that DG was sold to Name Media- let me assure everyone (again), that Dave is in FULL charge of DG. As long as Dave is at the helm, Dave runs DG. NM has been wonderful to work with, as they do not make any decisions regarding our community. Dave continues to run the website, in full.

To the poster who thought maybe the admins weren't reading this thread any more- I assure you, we are. We've never made a decision and just walked away. We always watch and listen.

I just thought that why would you want to come here Trish-I mean the posts are so mean-and when ?? werent' being answered, I just figured that you weren't popping in real often to find those ??....

Fairy,

I didn't say we wanted to come in :)

As for questions not being answered: Weekends have been traditionally been set aside for our family. Our family worked outside all day yesterday, and Dave and I were preparing for an evening of relaxation when we found this thread. We spent some time (well, Dave did) replying to it. We both read it. We talked about it. Then, we ultimately decided that we would try not to think about it for the rest of the night. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but we'd like some time off too :)

I can't speak for Terry, but I would guess that she tried to field as many questions as she could about the "whys".

Even the admins need a break every now and then, and we all try to take some time with our family and gardens on the weekends.

I encourage everyone to talk. However, please don't expect a response from us today. I'll say again, that we are watching and listening. We're thinking. We're talking amongst ourselves. Hopefully by Monday, we'll be able to tackle this fresh.

OK-then we will look for you tomorrow;)

That'll teach you to wait until a Monday to make a change like this! LOL Actually, I have no idea when the statement at the top of the forum changed; I just know when I noticed it. :-)

Seriously, I am pleased and gratified to see admin responses -- ever -- on a weekend. I would completely understand if you and Dave and Terry responded only during normal business hours. You take extra good care of us!

The co-op forum was notified on Wednesday, the 5th. We did not do this on the weekend and walk away. And we have read every single post here. I was out most of yesterday, as were Dave and Trish.

Would this work? A co-op group could be formed on yahoo (a new one) All co-op organizers and vendors could post their "new selections" and then an AD placed within Classified Ads to alert DG members of a new co-op. That way Admin no longer has worry about co-ops in general. DG members are still welcome to participate in co-ops and those people who are only interested in co-ops could have what they want too.



I hope most of you that are considering leaving will stay. I love DG it's more to me then just co-ops. The friends I've made are more valuable then any plant in my garden. The yearly fee has more then paid for itself in what I have learned in propagation, seed starting and planting. Without DG I easily would have spent that much on gardening books and not learned half as much. Admin has had to put up with a lot for years concerning the co-ops. I don't blame them for being done with it. But hate to see anyone go because of this.