More on Member feedback ratings

Hey Sequee and Weezingreens - I am with you!

I have never been on such a sight before and have been feeling my way around. I am still very new and although haven't had all of my posts replied to, haven't let it bother me too much. I do what I think most of us do - reply about subjects that I am interested in and possibly know a bit about. I am not considered an extrovert etiher in my 'face to face' life. As I have posted on other's threads, started a few of my own, and read even more I feel like I am getting to know the folks here. I really haven't felt left out a bit! I try to do my best to make the effort to get to know others since I am the newcomer trying to get to know people already established here. It's the same as making new friends. Let's also be frank - this is the Internet - as we all know it just makes more sense to get to know someone before you start sharing all your personal information (address is a BIGGY) with them.

Nicole - I love it here!

Good post, Baa. I agree it's makes one feel left out when no one responds to your post or question. I've tried to catch threads that only have one or two replies to see if I can help them somehow. DG is so large, some will slip through with no responses. Questions DO get lost in the middle of a long thread. Saw it happen just the other day. The conversation just went on and on. Other times I've seen someone, quite a ways down, post a reply to the question... was glad to see someone noticed! We all really need to keep an eye out for that.

It's just like a group talking at work or church or school, if you walk up to them and no one has a minute to stop and say hello, you wander off to a different group. No sense staying where you're not welcomed.

True, Kooger... it's like walking up to an ongoing conversation, isn't it. I think it would be helpful to begin a list of what was most difficult when we all joined Dave's Garden... I don't mean a big formal list, but a way of keeping in mind what it was like to be a newbie. I'm sure it's a bit different for new members now, since we've grown so much. It's easier for someone to fall through the cracks these days. I've noticed that many of the current days threads and PDB entries are already on the second page by the time I am visiting here.

OK, I've seen one thing that was criticized. I don't recall the thread, but it seems their questions were always being answered by a link to another thread. I guess I'm guilty of doing this. It's just a lot easier to refer to the same subject that's already been hashed over.... for instance, the PVC light racks. With Dave's forum search, it's so much easier to refer newbies to a previous thread. I sure don't mean to brush someone off when I do that, but I don't want to spend an hour on a thread re-inventing the wheel. It's just hard to know sometimes whether a person is more interested in information or conversation.

Hey, I've started threads that have been viewed by many - replied to by none! I just say, "duh - musta been a bumb question"...and start another. Hee, hee - never a problem for me, I have LOTS of questions and will not be deterred.

I think a lot of times folks see some of the "easy" questions and assume someone else will take the time to answer, or they see the "hard" ones and don't post anything because they're not sure of the answer. It's like the pastor at one church always told regular attendees/members, "if you see people you don't recognize, go up and say hello so they feel welcome." Just one hello can make a big difference, even if your next breath is "I don't know the answer to that question, but we do have a {insert forum name} forum here where I'm sure you'll get a good response!"

It is not uncommon to post a totaly unreleated statement at the end of a long thread. I suspect that some who are complaining about being ignored have done this. Once a thread had departed from its original intent I usually quit watching it.

I've only been a member since June 2004 so I guess that makes me a newbie, or an old newbie, or a new oldbie....anyhoo, I want to say that I have not experienced having been ignored or overlooked in any way since I've been here. Every question I've posted has been answered, quickly and courteously. The only time I've ever felt the least bit unwelcome was when one of my questions was replied to with a rather cryptic comment about how I should have searched for prior posts about the same subject. I suppose the member was correct, but it made me feel bad, in any case, because I just wasn't familiar enough with the site to have even considered doing that.

Notwithstanding that one instance, people have been exceedingly friendly and helpful in every way. This is the only gardening site I've ever been involved with and I'm having so much fun and learning so much, I have no need whatsoever to look elsewhere. If I can make new members feel as welcome as I have been made to feel, I will be very proud of myself. Thanks to you all for making this a cyber home to us all.

Goodness gracious! I already had some reservations about mail order trading from the standpoint of the legality of it and the risks of transmitting pests, invasives, or threats to ecosystems from one area to another. Now after reading through this thread I am just shaking my head and wondering why any one would want to trade via mail. Don't get me wrong....I'm not in any way being judgemental for those that do trade via mail but the more I read about it the less appealing it is to me. Hurt feelings if you do give feedback, hurt feelings if you don't, waiting for weeks for a trade, getting ripped off, having so many ongoing that you forget your commitments without a tracking system. I just seems way easier and less stressful to me to run down to you local nursery and buy the seeds or order them from a seed company who business it is to be aware of state regulations governing seed quality and distribution. JMHO.

Oh trading can be very rewatding and down right fun....don't let a collection of bad luck posts ruin it for you. 99.99% of all trades seem to go through with little or no problem. I have been burned just as often by my 'local' nursery and various mail order outfits as I have by traders here at DG.

I was a bit awkward when I first started, but I am so lovin' it! It's so much fun to share and become apart of another's garden, and the people here are awesome! I've been introduced to things I would never had gotten on my own.

Very few people use the Feedback feature, and even fewer are negative. And hurt feelings are a part of life - if you're sensitive, you're going to have hurt feelings from time-to-time. Get over it and move on!

I wouldn't give up the fabulous experiences I've had with fellow trades for anything. Love grows in my garden,and it's nice to be able to look at your plants and think of the great people who have shared them with you!

I walk around my garden and say....."Oh that obedient plant is from Nancy" and "This lovely bee balm is from Wanda's garden" and "Sandy sent this beauty to me". I love it! Sure beats the local markets with the same 'ole...same 'ole.

AND - you never get things home that are mistagged!

Well, isn't that the real beauty of it... you can chose to trade or you can chose not to. I've become an avid seed collector, and I don't know what in the world I would do with it all if I didn't share it. I enjoy collecting, sorting, making packaging, etc... I love it all.

On the other hand, I've spoken to lots of people that just like to grow things. They don't collect seeds.. they prefer to deadhead and keep the plants looking nice all summer. Each spring they either purchase seed or just go down to the local nursery and buy what they want. They like to keep it simple...nothing wrong with that!

I think misunderstandings and dissatisfaction occur when we hope to save money trading rather than just purchasing. I spend far more trading than I would to buy, I'm sure, but I don't care. I just like to do it. I'm more hurt if I send seed and don't receive a thankyou, than I am if they don't send seeds back. I like to share and I like an atta boy once in awhile.

Hey the very first mail order nursery I ordered from started with the letters Mich - so guess how I felt about mail order companies after that!!! LOL - my DG trades have been awesome!!!!!

The easy answer is to each his own - don't do it if it's that worrisome to you. I believe that those of us actively involved will keep it up and keep our gardens growing!!! I have so much stuff at home now that needs to get in the ground I am most worried about getting it all planted!

Nicole

Ditto, NC.

And then there's the Secret Trades which are a ball.....kind of like opening a Christmas or Birthday gift. I've gotten all kinds of things I wouldn't have tried on my own.

I've never done secret trades... how do they work?

Ohhh - me too!! Sheran was one of my first trades!!! Got some neat stuff that 'expanded' my gardening eyes.. Sometimes you can garden in a box if you don't watch out and exclude some good plants!!!

The feedback option is a good 'meter' for all of us - and personally if I read one bad feedback about it's not a big deal. We all make mistakes and forget things. If there is enough of a problem with someone Dave will take care of it for us.

Different forums have had secret trades - hostas, daylilies, to name 2. Some one organizes it, collects names, they go in a hat or whatever, organizer emails you with your trader's info. The organizer also sets the rules, how many named you must send, and you can include anything or nothing besides the required. Simple! and FUN!!! If I left anything out, someone will add it. :)

edit - can't spell

This message was edited Oct 28, 2004 12:42 PM

WZG - They done them in the Hosta & Daylily forums regularly. I haven't done either of those. I did one Poppysue set up this summer that was for 3 plants (your choice). They usually set a number of plants to trade and then someone starts a thread on Wish Lists so folks participating can post things they like or things they don't like (e.g. red daylilies, mini hosta, I don't have any shade.) That sort of thing. Then the host puts all participants in a hat/box and draws names out for each of the participants, notifies them of their secret trade and sets a time limit that the packages need to be sent out by to insure it's timely.

I got some Black Mondo Grass that I never would have tried on my own. It's cool stuff and doesn't spread like crazy like other grasses.

There's also Round Robin trading -- it is its own forum

http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/rrtrade/

Those are usually seeds, but there are one for coffees or teas or garden related items. Basically someone starts it by taking names of participants. Then they set up a travel route for the Robin to take (usually a geographically sensible route) and publishes the travel route. Then the coordinator starts a box off to the next person on the list with several items of the Robin topic (perennial seeds, annual seeds, vegetable seeds, etc). The 2nd person receives the box takes out 3 items and puts in 3 other items, sends to the next person, and so on. It ends up back to the starting coordinator in the end.

I tried one once before but the Robin got stalled and was never started again so I never got to participate. I'm doing one right now in the DL forum that Clairelise set up that is sending something that is a favorite of ours (books, chocolates, whatever we like). It's to help us all get to know each other better (kind of an inside look into who sent you the package).

Thanks, Kooger & Langbr. I've participated in two round robins and they were fun, but there is a geographical issue for me. Sending a packet of seeds SASE is the same for me as it is for the lower 48, but when it comes to packages, there's a difference. It is unfair to the person mailing the package, and it costs me the same when I mail it out.

As I understand it, most round robins come back your way so you can get a second chance of the package contents. That makes good sense for most folks. The last round robin I participated in was a big box of seeds, but the freight was over $15 to and from Alaska. I participated early on in the first round, but opted out on the second. Full participation would have cost me over $30 in freight, and often the seeds just aren't suited for my area. I think we Northwesterners and Alaskans need to organize our own round robin that will have the seeds we can all grow.

I don't always notice new features on this site right away. I really like the feedback
about trades. I check a person everytime I want something so I can see if they have a good reputation for finishing their side.
It really helps me to be more patient and not panic when seeds or plants are not arriving quickly.
The last time I made a trade and sent my part out I checked the persons feedback and saw that they were a good trader. Even though it took some time for them to send their side, I felt assured it would come eventually because of reading their feedback and did not have to remind them about the trade.
I have of course taken chances with new people who had not established any feedback yet. You just have to let new people prove themselves also.
Thanks for this feature. I am sure everyone will benefit from it.
I must admit that I have seen some negative feedback for a few people that I have traded with and was disappointed in. Even though I did not add my own negative feedback it was good to see that they were outted.

A lot of you missed the point entirely. "Cliques" are about being extremely EXCLUSIVE. To the point of only trading with your friends and/or a chosen few, then bragging about it...to the point of not trading with new people. In other words...snobishness. And there is/was quite a lot of that going on in the other site. Forum Queens who ruled with an iron fist and what-not. God save you if you went up against them, and called a spade a spade! It's why I stuck to winter-sowing and native plants.

I am not finding this here. I also laboured to say that this is not how I feel about Dave's Garden. If you re-check my post, you will see, in the first sentence, "Great site, well done, nice people." Because this IS a great site, very well done, easy and intuitive to use, with very nice people on it.

All of the people I have traded with here so far have been brilliant. I still am not going to leave feedback, unless specifically requested to do so. I still owe 1 trade, I'm just waiting for the dang New England Aster to get ready! If I have a problem with a trader...I will take care of them myself via e-mail. I will put them on my private don't trade list. I'm not into public humiliation, sorry. April

I've been a subscriber for about 3 weeks now. I would like to start this post by apologizing ahead of time since my experience in the last 3 weeks is that I have often been put in the position of apologizing after a post merely for the sake of maintaining good will and harmony, even when I don't think there was anything I needed to aplogize for. And to make it worse, on several of those occasions after apologizing merely out of politeness and common curtesy, I've been told that I am too defensive and offensive. So, It has put me in a no win situation. If I apologize, I'm being defensive and/or offensive and if I don't apologize I am being rude. So at the risk of being perceived as any of the above I will
a) apologize in advance
b) not apologize at all

Having said that here go my observations, experiences, and opinions of DG (and that is all they are....my observations, experiences, and opinions....so please, please, please...don't twist them into anything else)

A few posts above mentioned newcomers feeling put off because they don't post much. My experience has been just the opposite. I have felt I was being put through the wringer because I was posting too much and that some how that was a no-no in some unwritten etiquette some where. In fact one post accused me of posting only because I wanted to hear my own voice. Not exactly a way to make newbies feel welcome!

There has been a lot of response to Dave's decision to add a Texas Gardening Forum. A lot of those addressed concerns that it would cause DG to become segmented into cubbyholes where everyone stayed in their own little corners of the garden. I have to agree with that to an extent but what I have found is that for those that do that, it was already the case BEFORE that forum was created. I have ventured into a number of forums at DG and on several occasions I did have the urge to retreat to a "home" forum where I felt more comfortable in posting without fear of retribution. I have posted in several forums that are either of particular interest to me, or where I could really use some expertise from those more experienced in those areas. But after being told that my questions were a slap on the wrist, that there were certain gardening relating things I shouldn't ask about because they were too controversial and taken too personally, and that I was calling everyone dumb and impatient because I expressed a different viewpoint, I'm not surprised that those with thinner skins than me don't retreat to their safe little corners of the garden or leave altogether..

Are their clique's here? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Not at all. The only aspect that would bother me about that would be hypocritical denial of it. Is their a Secret Garden here? Most definitely. I experienced that first hand when others caught on to what was happening to me here and I was suddenly flooded with back channel email, some of which, with all good intentions, attempted to get me to pick a clique to belong in back channel opposition to the others.

I subscribed to DG primarily because of the features it offered....the PDB, the Journal, and the opportunity to discuss gardening with some pretty dang knowledgable and experienced gardeners from all over the world. Joining a social club, family, or clique never even entered into it. That having been said, I was initially quite surprised and pleasantly pleased at the apparent conviviality that I found. Unfortunately, I have subsequently learned the hard way that it is a dual edged sword. I don't think I've ever seen a site where the appearance of "being one big happy family" has so far outweighed the sharing of of subject (in this case gardening) related discussion. I'm certainly not suggesting that inappropiate behavior be condoned in anyway and that common curtesy and common sense shouldn't apply at all times. But when it becomes so paramount that I feel put in the position of having to couch my every word when I post on any subject to avoid being judged, sniped at, and chastised; or that my post will be twisted into something it is not; or that one person that reads it might take some word personally for reasons I could not possibly predict; then trying to tap into and participate in the sharing and learning process as relates to gardening becomes an onerous chore.

Now anybody that has different opinions to what I have said should feel free to voice them without fear of retribution. All I would like to ask it that people take my posts and anybody else's for what they are....whether it is a question, an answer, an opinion, or observation.....and not be looking to twist it into a slight, insult, challenge, or anything else that it is not.

Wow









Opps sorry supposed to be a dove


This message was edited Nov 14, 2004 7:45 PM

Ernie, nice puppy dog :)

Pville, I sure hope you haven't felt that sort of thing when posting on threads with me. I honestly haven't felt that sort of thing in the time I've been here, but maybe I'm just too dumb and happy to notice. Please know that I'd never shut you out, and I wouldn't like anyone else to do it. I'm so sad to hear this.

Weezingreens and all,

I posted what I did because those have been my honest observations, not because I am seeking apologies, and I have no intentions of "fingering" anyone. That would certainly be counter productive. I would just like to see DG be a little bit more about gardening and a little bit less about obsessing over who might have stepped on whose toes. It seems to me some times that it has become a self-fulfilling prophesy. The focus and stress surrounding the "one big happy family" and "can't we just all get along" themes may in and of itself be contributing to the very problem they are trying to avoid. It seems to me that if we spent more time talking about gardening and less about feedback, who posts alot and who doesn't, who is online, who should get forums and who shouldn't, etc., that more people would feel comfortable and welcome and able to focus on gardening rather that writing and rewriting, editing and re-editing their every word just to ask a simple question or respond to something of interest to them.

I am not trying to speak for anyone other than myself, but based on the number of emails I have received regarding my post earlier this evening in this thread, as well as another post in a different thread the other day which has since been deleted at my request, I think it is reasonable for me to assume that there are plenty of other subscribers who feel as I do. That they choose to express their agreement to me privately via email rather than post it here, for whatever reasons, may also be indicative that there are others who also find posting on DG forums less than comfortable.

I respect your feelings, Pville, and once again, I hope you don't ever feel closed out by me. I have to say, be cautious of taking personal emails too much to heart. Not that they can't be informative, but if someone is not willing to post, maybe their comments are a little less valuable. If there are clics on Dave's, there are plenty of other places to visit here that are not.

I respectfully but strenuously disagree. I think that labeling someone's comments and opinions as less valuable, simply because they chose to make them privately, is exactly indicative of the culture that keeps them from expressing them here. Please understand that this is not about me, but rather how DG can be productive and beneficial for all.

We've all got to figure out what works best for us. I've had a few personal emails from DGers, and most were really supportive. However, I had a few that were from folks that had some axe to grind and got me dragged into the middle of it. You're a smart person, and you surely know what's best for yourself. It was friendly advice, not a blanket statement. DG can always use some improvement, and I think it's good that you are willing to step forward.

Pville, if you don't feel welcome b/c people don't know you, just but into the convos!

Some people might get upset but they shouldn't b/c why have discussions on a public forum if you didn't want people to see it and comment? There are clicks but that doesn't really mean anything. I think it's just b/c some people do most of their posting in one forum as opossed to the others and they'd most likely be quick to welcome you. I flit around like a bee from forum to forum but I do have my favorites as most people do.

Some times you can insult people without realizing it. Or things can come out sounding different then you intended. Maybe you really do tend to insult people. I don't really know. Most of the time it is better to keep to calm topics just to avoid problems.

I'm not sure if you're aware of the OTHER big gardening website but it was a constant mess over there because of all the fights resulting from touchy issues.

Anyways, welcome to DG and I hope your experience improves!

I think DG is "productive and beneficial" for many....heck I'll even say MOST DG'ers!!

I also think that online communities each have their own "style". It's all a matter of finding the one that suits your own personal style. To be honest, the first garden community I came upon was Gardenweb. I looked over it a couple of nights and could tell it was not the kind of place I would fit in. I eventually landed here at DG and now I have my gardening home on the web!

I also don't think there's anything wrong with folks trying to quell any discord caused by "toes being stepped upon". It's no different on the job or at home, when there are arguments or divisions we try to resolve them because peace and harmony are always more desirable than bickering and upheaval.

I've always lived by a "live and let live" philosphy. I think diversity is cool and makes life so much more interesting. Kind of like preferring a garden bed full of a lot of different flowers/colors/textures versus having a garden bed of the same plant. I do think it takes a certain level "skill" to tend to a garden of such wide variation and needs. Similiarly it is also that way for being a member of an online community. There is a certain level of etiquette that must observed and displayed.

edited for spelling....I'm up too late

This message was edited Nov 15, 2004 12:26 AM

Thank you CaptMicha. Yes I am well aware of Garden Web and I am a member there as well and there was no constant mess or fighting in the forums I frequent there, but that may be in part because those that frequent those particular forums are not extremely touchy and the primary focus of those forums was on gardening. I never said I don't feel welcome because people don't know me. What I did say was that I would like people to not turn my posts into something they aren't.. I think it is unfortunate that you feel that "Most of the time it is better to keep to calm topics just to avoid problems".

I don't want to beat a dead horse. I've expressed my observations and opinions on this subject and I really don't know how to make them any clearer. So at this point, I would like to get back to focussing on a gardening project that I am working on with some other folks in another forum here. It is IMO both a controversial and important subject and project, and potentially quite a complex one. I would have not had the oportunity to participate and learn from such a project were it not for the existance of DG and it is for those opportunities that I am here. I would wish for each of you that you find a gardening project of your choice to be involved in with others here that have similar interests.

I've been a member here for about 18 mths. It's only been in the last few months that there appears to be problems amongst some members' posts. I'm not pointing fingers or putting the blame on a certain few, just my observations.

What I have noticed is that more and more people think that what they have to say is gospel and not allowing for differences of opinion. If each of us could respect what the other was saying and agree to disagree at times, we might be back to where we were.

I've also noticed that several of the members that used to frequent here are no longer here and I'm wondering if it is because this is seemingly becoming a war zone.

Come on people, say your peace and let it rest. If I say the sky is blue, does that make it so? We are all different and none of us are high and mighty.

I wish everyone a wonderful day, Kathy

I wasn't trying to censor anyone! I hope everyone understands that. But I just don't understand why it may be felt that you need to stir up a hornets nest. I hope I got and used that saying right. If we really want to talk about gardening, what can people possibly fight about with plants?

LOL, BT!

I am the seeker of strife, looking to interject lightness.