More on Member feedback ratings

Right, I know. :) Females are in the huge majority on this site (and gardening sites, in general) so I used the feminine gender. :)

dave

It's still not PC, LOL.

Totally off-topic but I have to say I'm sure not convinced that political correctness has done much good for our society. IMHO, people today are more crude, vulgar, judgmental, and arrogant in their dealings with each other than they were 30 years ago (which was about the time I became aware of how generalizations about gender or other characteristics could be hurtful, patronizing and inaccurate ;o)

Terry, of course I agree with you. Being PC is of absolutely no importance to me. I just try to be fair with everyone and not have pre-conceived notions.

All the above posts were just to ragg Dave with a bit of fun for me. Certainly wasn't serious, LOL. Sorry of anyone took it that way.

Thanks Dave! Whether women are dominant at the site or not it's refreshing to see the feminine gender used. It gets old reading 'he and his' all the time when you are a woman! The male gender is over used considering today's society if you ask me. Using 'they or them' is also not feasible sometimes...

Thanks

Point taken: I was just throwing up some "thin ice" warning signs in case the sounds of ice cracking were too faint to be heard ;o)

I love the system and will use it, I had been burned a couple of times had just about stopped trading plants because of it. It was a costly experience and would only trade seed from then on. Or limited it to people I knew and had traded with before.
So now this gives me a recourse and I will use it and I am glad we finally have something in place like this and I do hope that folks will use it, responsibly and respectfully.

I have noticed that the 2 cruddy people that burned me are no longer members so thats a good thing.
Thanks Dave for giving us a way to let others know "Who does What".........Now I hope we will all be honest and sincere in all our posting and not just try and get back a some one for posting negative feed back. I would hope we would do our best to resolve conflicts before negatives are left.

And in a way it is a popularity contest, if you are a good and honest trader you will be popular and if are a sorry trader your won't be........LOL....just a little joke.....haha.....
:o)
Dee

I think DAVE is doing a
great job of running
Dave's garden, Where can
you get all of this
information like the
newsletter everyday???
Not from any "garden club"
in your state or anywhere
else. (you might a get
magizine once a month.)

If you were to brake down
the cost of the dues $15
per year to pennies a day
per newsletter you won't
find a better deal anywhere
& If it wasn't for the
ROUNDUP get togethers we
wouldn't have the frends
that we have.

The roundup is not in the
place in the newsletter
that you used to look for
it so when you open up your
newsletter each day! look
up to the top & you will
see the little boxs!! Go
the one that says FORUM &
you will find the roundup
& brugs & most other
things you want, Brugie
about had to hit me over
the head until I found it.
I was lost until then.

I hope that most of the
ones that trade a lot go
to the roundups & not
just use Dave's just to
make money. We have a
wonderful club here & I
know most of us would like
to go to the roundups, So
this comming year 2005 I
am going to donate the
money I put up for cost of
the shelter for the Iowa
roundup in Des Moines for
dues for some that can't
afford it & maybe we can
pass the hat to also help
out.

I probley said more than I
should so lets keep Dave's
going strong.

rebel888 you've got mail.

Thank you for your response to my question. It does make sense.

I suppose that if you got burned by member XYZ123 and began trading with member ABC987 only to discover they had the same mailing address you could stop the trade and post feedback under the new alias to that effect to warn others of the attempted subterfuge.

It will be up to each of us to try to make it work as intended. Weeding out the invasive pests in the DG garden so the good people can continue to blossom.

Zany - what a great analogy! ;-D

I suppose that if you got burned by member XYZ123 and began trading with member ABC987 only to discover they had the same mailing address you could stop the trade and post feedback under the new alias to that effect to warn others of the attempted subterfuge.

ABSOLUTELY!!

dave

Just a word of caution......a really "smart" deceiver would keep track of who they've traded with and their name and not make the mistake of asking to trade again with that person under a different name. Alternatively, they can get different PO boxes and deceive that way.

Not trying to be an alarmist, but just want to point out that those aren't always the only signs of a deceptive trader.

If someone is really determined to scam a load of people they will, nothing can guard against that except no trading at all. Fortunately many of these people don't have the brains to do it or the money to keep opening different PO boxes

I think this is a great addition! My question is :What do most people consider and appropriate amount of time to wait on a trade if you have e-mailed the trader and gotten no reply? I know people go on vacation , etc., so I am hesitant to post a couple of negatives for trades I haven't received yet. What is poplar opinion? I don't want to cause any hard feelings or seem pushy. Thanks,

Lou

I'm in that situation. I received something, and the sender was going on a vacation so my return item was delayed. This was a few months ago. I twice e-mailed the sender to ask if it would be a good time for me to send their plant, but never got a reply. I don't want to just go ahead and send the item not even knowing if they'll be there to get it.

For a lot of the trading etiquette questions, I think the Trading Primer does a pretty good job of giving some good guidelines. For those who haven't read it (or it's been a while), I'd suggest doing a quick read-through (especially the section dealing with "when things go wrong." http://davesgarden.com/trading/primer/

Here's how I look at the feedback: I probably have a few trades I've dropped the ball on. I'd like to think the person would try to contact me (I'm not that hard to find!) and give me a nudge before they'd post negative feedback. But even if they felt they had been more than patient and blasted me with some negative feedback without warning, I'd still have the opportunity to try to right the wrong.

If I did express my humble apologies and send what was overdue, I think/hope most everyone here would be wiling to forgive and forget. I know I would if the shoe were on the other foot.

But to be honest, that's not what this feedback mechanism is really about, and I don't think the typical trader has ANYTHING to worry about.

Let's say I've got an evil twin (some say I do...) and she has stiffed a LOT of people here. Now the mechanism allows them to give her the bad rap she so richly deserves. She would either have to clean up her act in a very public way or ease on out of town (figuratively speaking) and not come back to DG. Is that such a bad thing? I don't think so...

You know what the sad thing is? There are people in ALL aspects that will take advantage!! I never in a MILLION years thought about this until the thread came up. Ok - I've been here a total of --less than a month-- but after being referred to this site from Johnny's Select Seeds it took me all of 15 minutes to call and pay my $15!! I have been so looking for a place to discuss plants and possibly trade seeds/plants. Viola! Here it is! The only problem (not traded before..) I have run into is the possibility of getting FIRED for going onto this site at work! I am - no pun intended - addicted, again!! This site has peaked my interest!! I do not want to get ripped but the opportunity to have people actually INTERESTED in my gardening and wanting to talk about it is so awesome! Believe me my co-workers are thanking DG's right now. Not too mention the local contacts I have made - many of you know AHELMS - I live close to her and we are going to meet/discuss/trade/etc etc. I am going to stop now before I take up the entire thread...

Wow! Everytime I come indoors and check DG, there's some new inovation! Last time it was the nifty new look and the easy navigating... I can even go from the PDB to the Garden! I'm a slow reader and easily distracted, so I may have missed something in the first thread and now this one. Is this feature only for 'subscribed' members? My greatest problems with trades have come from folks who are signed up, but not subscribed. This is generally seeds, not plants. Will their member pages be available for comments?

Just a thankyou to everyone especially our DG 'parents' for continuing to be enthusiastic and thoughtful about this community. I think I spend WAY too much time at DG, its not only fun its special and important to me. Thankyou

ncgardenaddict, I am sure hearing you. There is no other place where I can go to discuss gardening like I can here, and I have learned so much from all the other gardeners. Even tho there has been a crisis here recently, my experience in the two years since I became a member has been far more than education, it is comraderie and trust. It is the respectful behavior and generosity of the members of this community that made events of late so painful - a loss of innocence. The bottom line is that most folks thrive here, a minor few do not belong here. I appreciated what you said about being addicted and concerned about looking in from work - this site is unlike any other and I can't stay away, can't stop planting, buying, digging, etc. And the sharing that goes on here is fabulous! Check out the health forums and you will see how much these folks care about each other, even tho they have never met, probably never will. This is a very nurturing environment.

If everyone would just follow "The Golden Rule", there would not be any problems. Unfortunately some don't, so I think a rating system is a good thing. If people try to do what's right, they have nothing to fear.

I do very few trades anymore because I have about everything I want, plus I had a few problems with folk's (non-subscribers) who didn't hold up their end. It used to be when we were a much smaller group, that you could really depend on people sending their best, we had a reputation to keep. Now there are so many, it's hard to build a reputation. Once in a while I have someone wanting a trade - but I simply tell them I will send what they want for postage, I learned the hard way to not send things until I receive their postage. Sometimes I never hear from them again - no postage - no plant, simple!

It's hard to tell what people are really expecting, what some would think is a generous trade, others would not. Another thing, they need to be packed with care to be acceptable, geting a box of "mush' is not a good trade. I always try to ship plants ASAP, but only on Monday or Tuesday - seeds can be sent any day of course. Trading is a great thing if it's done honestly, and I'd say about 99% are.

Personally I like the fact that there are so many 'feel good' kind of feedbacks left. If I go to someone's feedback and see nothing there it leads me to believe I am stepping off into uncharted waters. With loads of friendly feedback I feel I can send my trade and not look back.

I started trading 19 days ago and have 10 trades on my TradeTracker. One of those trades received my stuff over a week ago to which I received an email saying they got it (2 days after it was mailed) - not that they were sending or had sent theirs. A second email several days later requesting feedback was replied to with a resounding, "Absolutely!". Still nothing.

With no feedback on this person I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I've been had. If it were SusieSunshine with a dozen 'Atta Girl's I'm not sure I would be giving it a whole lot of thought just yet. And I KNOW I wouldn't be dreading sending an email asking if everything was okay on their home front.

So, please, if you've trade (Administrator or not), whether you think this system is valid or not, whether your trade is listed on the boards or not, would you please, PLEASE, leave feedback so that people such as myself can feel just a bit safer in sending out there hard work, their 'babies', to virtual strangers?

I give you my thanks in advance.

dstartz: I think your request is valid. We should be good neighbors and post both the good and bad to the member pages. I'm going to go back into my files and do some posting myself. Before I post anything negative, I'm going to send one more email to each person who did not respond once I sent the seeds out. I seldom ask for SASE, so it seems it is little to ask to get a response to know the seeds arrived safely. I even email back to ask and get no response, so I assume they have gotten what they wanted from me, and probably many others, and are on their way to another site. That is why I asked if this applies to nonsubscribers as well as subscribers.

Weezin - I've left feedback for a non-subscriber. If they have DG username you can leave feedback.

Thanks, langbr. I didn't mean to imply non-subscribers are suspect, but often the request for SASE seeds come in like form letters and when I check their member pages, they just signed up. There's nothing wrong with asking for seeds offered SASE, but when confirmation of receipt is requested, it's not much to ask. I think anyone who gets seeds absolutely free can at least invest an email response.

Agreed!!

Edited

This message was edited Oct 13, 2004 11:10 PM

Interesting reviews, think this is a positive idea that folks can interpret for themselves and again with Dave's help we have a reference point. Everything in print is not etched in stone, but as we read other's reviews we now have the opportunity to use our common sense and good judgement when making trades. I believe Dave & Co. have helped enhance our ability to trade with reputable folks

*Snif*....I haven't traded so I don't get rated!! Anyone want to trade with me? I've sent out some things...but they weren't for a trade...and people have sent things to me...still...no trade!! I have lots of gourd seeds to trade! Jo

Jo you have traded with me for lots of things, you have sent me other things than plants or seeds, in return for plants or seeds. Same thing. As a mattter of fact I think I am behind now since you made the things for my sons wedding.

Hi roadrunner, you've got mail.

In regard to folks posting negative feedback back to someone who gave them negative feedback, the cautious trader merely checks both of their ratings to determine whether:

a. one or both are bad traders in general, or
b. some kind of miscommunication occurred in expectations between the two specific parties.

Negative ratings between two folks merely get cancelled out in the long run, especially when other folks post of their successful trades with either (or even both!) of the disgruntled pair. :)

Unless we've all turned into dogs, the member feedback loop should not be considered a fire hydrant. *giggle*

Peace.
Donna, whose avatar on another Forum is of a prairie dog, but that's not important right now. ;)

Hi all! I was reading through all of this and had a question. I have not done any trading since I do not have very much in my garden this year. I am in the process of relandscaping my entire yard (keep in mind that's not very big, LOL) and I need a little of everything at this point, well rather for next spring. Any suggestions?

Kudos to Dave - I know I'm a little behind in saying so but your heart is definately in the right spot with all of this, thank you for thinking of all of us.

For new/inexperienced traders, I think you'll find a very generous group of folks willing to share their seeds with you for SASE. The trading primer is a great place to start - it will answer a lot of your questions about what to do first, and how to go about asking for seeds or plants. (For starters, it's a good idea to figure out what you want, what will grow, and whether you have the resources to start the seeds - are they sown directly into the garden, do they need stratifying (making them good candidats for winter sowing), or are they tender plants that need lots of warmth and light for several weeks in early spring?

Answering those questions will help you zero in on which plants are best suited for your garden, then you can start seeking out people who have them available for SASE.

gadslilgarden feel free to email me and I will be glad to assist you with any questions you have.
I agree with Terry, everyone here will help you as much as possible.

I am always glad to share what seeds and sometimes plants I have and many times have sent out welcome packages to New members. I know when I joined I recived a couple from some very nice people here that asked that I not thank them on the forms in any way. They just did this at random and didn't want any hurt feelings so no thanks was needed......
Many, many people here are like that and will send seeds and plants just out of the goodness of there hearts, its just when good people are taken advantage of that it becomes ugly and people are hurt. Then we began to doubt the good nature of the majority and stop trading, because it dosn't take but one or two bad trades to throw suspision on the whole bunch especially if you just see a new name pop up.......
:o)
Dee

So .. us 'newbies' are being 'discriminated' against and somewhat 'profiled' also, 'ey? .. Before we even get a proverbial 'foot in the door', to boot .. heehee

Whoa, now .. Don't jump to stone me yet! For I am not dense. Most any and all, apprehensiveness - is most understandable - in light of all of this most recent hoopla that has taken place !! So, keep your rocks there in your own yards (I've got enuff anyway!) hee hee

Just seems that Willowwasps' small comment .. just sorta puts it all into persective. That most likely, any newbies interested in trading, etc. .. must certainly be prepared to expect and endure .. the suspicion, and possible blatant and interrogatory sequences that will indeed be associated .. for a while.

And no doubt, that I too .. would be just as much, if not more so, reluctant .. to pursure any form or trading or give-away offers .. or just simply refrain, period! Other than those of you, which may have long established a sound and dependable history associated. Again, it's all quite understandable ..

Just wish 'life at DG' would quickly get back into some reasonable realm of 'normalcy' ... Nope, not suggesting to anyone to put your guards down. But good-ness, things could be far worse.

None of us, are inpenetratable ... so, why waste it building our fences even higher. Taller fences or higher hurdles, aren't to be interpreted as posing more difficulties for the 'outside' world .. in hopes of keeping it's beasts at bay .. no matter what form they come in! It generally more appropriately translates to ones deliberate isolation and self-deprivation from exposure to the things that are good, joyous, and just out-right wonderful.

I just figger, that even us newbies here @ DG, and any of us that are even 'newbieER' (hee) to trading and the like - - will just have to bide our time, read and become familiar with due-process in the meantime, etc. .. and become virtual inordinate sponges .. (or dry up one)! Hee Hee

A newbie trader can easily and quickly establish an excellent reputation here or at any other trading forum.

1) Find a few established traders who are offering your desired seeds for postage, then promptly send your SASE. Don't expect them to send the seeds without getting your envelope first.

2) Don't immediately plaster the forums with requests (or offers for that matter.) Be judicious in your requests, and ask for those things you really want. (Begging for people to send you "anything" is understandable if you're an enthuasiastic newbie, but it can raise some skepticism. Know what you want, and know what it'll take to grow it, then ask - politely.)

3) If someone says they have a limited number of packets as a "special offer for newbies", ask for it if it's really seeds you can use, but don't get a reputation for "panhandling" (i.e., signing up for EVERY newbie offer.) Your newbie status diminishes rapidly once you have a few trades under your belt.

....and I honestly think that's about all it takes to establish a good reputation - it just takes a little work to maintain it after that.

And if I have something that someone else wants, I'm more than willing to send mine first so they will know that I will make good.