First point: a lot of what is being asked for is already there. Members can already update their feedbacks (including changing the rating and anything else).
You can even alter the text. So, none of the feedbacks are set in stone and the person who wrote the feedback can alter it at any time.
It's not going to be tied to the trade tracker or anything else, and it won't ever require that you dealt with the person before. It's a loose early warning system and nothing else. It's actually not to be taken very seriously.
Remember: the intention is not to reward good traders, but to punish the very bad ones.
dave
More on Member feedback ratings
dave
Aug 17, 2004
Dave - unfortunately that doesn't appear to be how it's shaking out. After taking your own lead, all I'm seeing is a lot of feedback left between friends which isn't all that useful. It's like there's a race to see who can post the most positive ratings. I understand that there will always be less negative feedback than positive, but right now it's like everyone is trying out the new feature and throwing up "A+" and "great trader" all over the place.
Not intending to rain on the parade, but that's the way it strikes me currently. Hopefully in a week or so things will calm down as they usually do and the feature will take on some new meaning to me.
i think it will be a good thing!
even if people are posting lots of good things-thats a plus cuz others wont be afraid to trade with you!
I
Dave, I know people don't want to see a feedback number after names like ebay does ... but it would be nice on the feedback page to see the number of positives vs. negatives. People tend to skim over the positives to look find the negatives. If someone has 100 positives and 0 negatives you know at a glance you can feel comfortable with that trader. If they have 100 positives and 10 negatives it might be worth the effort to rummage through and see what the negatives are all about...
That's a good point, Sue.
dave
Aug 17, 2004
langbr, I'm sorry that you see it as a popularity contest. Re-read my paragraph above to see my intentions for the use of this system. I won't be changing my mind; this feature is here to stay and it won't be changing much from how it is right now.
I'm sick and tired of people coming in here and stealing from a hundred people before they are finally caught and banned (which process takes hours of my time and isn't always accurate).
If the ratings bother you, I might consider making a preference option that hides the feature from you.
dave
Dave - no don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the feature. I like it. I personally waded through the Mail Call forum many times to see if there was any indication of trader performance in the past. This makes it much easier. I was merely trying to say that right now with it being a new feature that there's a lot of folks trying it out by posting positive feedback. I did not say it was a popularity contest.
I was commenting more on your statement: "It's a loose early warning system and nothing else." and "the intention is not to reward good traders, but to punish the very bad ones." Right now it's a bunch of people testing it out. In time, after the newness has worn off, it will hopefully be an indicator of problem traders. And again, I know that there won't be a lot of negative feedback (if there is we have a bigger problem).
My apologies if my message sounded like a rant against the new feature .....it wasn't intended to be that.
This message was edited Aug 17, 2004 10:13 AM
Until you've been taken by someone, you probably don't see the need for a ratings system..... all it will do is keep all of us safer, and weed out the scheming people more quickly, hopefully. I know that everyone has always been afraid to publicly point fingers at bad traders, but have usually been quick to share the names by back-channeling or by emailing to put the word out. What about the people who set up trades privately, who never post they are doing a trade.... this system will help everyone, as long as everyone is willing to use it responsibly, and I believe that most will.
I did leave negative for two people who I've never heard from again more than a year after sending them my end of a trade. I did not leave bad feedback for people who are slow.... or for people I know had genuine problems.
Things really do happen like mail getting lost, and I think the majority of folks here realize that and will take that into account when they do their feedback. BUT... what if someone habitually is slow, or their mail consistenly gets lost? That indicates a problem, and hopefully the ratings system will not only encourage slower traders to be faster, it will also discourage folks from biting off more than they can chew when doing trading.
It doesn't always feel real good to open your mouth and complain about a bad trader, you feel like a trouble maker, some tell you to just let it go.... and some get mad at you for bringing light to it and never "speak" to you again...but, what if no one ever spoke up?
After what happened in Daylilies this summer, if a few of us had not spoken up, there would still be someone taking advantage, at least until the well ran dry and there were no more daylilies to be had from here.... then what? Do they move on, happy as a lark, and leave a bunch of disappointed people in their wake... many probably wondering why no one warned them? Now we have a way to warn them, and I really think that this will discourage people like that from joining this site with the intent to take advantage MORE than it will cause problems for good folks who like to trade.
Dave used the right word, stealing.... I was curious, as to what Mail Fraud actually was, and did a little digging last night. Below is what I found out on the USPS website.
So...... I guess if anyone would consider doing such a thing , they should think twice. They're not just swiping plants from generous gardeners, they could be breaking the law, if I'm reading this correctly.
Here is the definitition of Mail Fraud...
MAIL FRAUD - 18 U.S.C. 1341, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to use the United States mails in carrying out a scheme to defraud.
A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved: First: That the person knowingly and willfully devised a scheme to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false pretenses, representations or promises; and Second: That the person used the United States Postal Service by mailing, or by causing to be mailed, some matter or thing for the purpose of executing the scheme to defraud.
And, here is what I found as the penalty for using ficticious names.
They look to me to be two separate offenses.
Section 1342. Fictitious name or address
Whoever, for the purpose of conducting, promoting, or carrying on by means of the Postal Service, any scheme or device mentioned in section 1341 of this title or any other unlawful business, uses or assumes, or requests to be addressed by, any fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address or name other than his or her own proper name, or takes or receives from any post office or authorized depository of mail matter, any letter, postal card, package, or other mail matter addressed to any such fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address, or name other than his or her own proper name, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
This message was edited Aug 17, 2004 11:48 AM
christmascactus
Aug 17, 2004
This has nothing to do with trading-but is on the Member feedback rating.
I don't think it is fair that the administrator to post on a few members feedback ratings on their page-"excellent member & certainly reputable for trading".Thought it may not be with the intention implied here-but it makes me feel-the adm. may not think the rest of us members are not up to par.
I'm not trying to be petty & I maybe the only one that feels that way-but this does cause hurt feelings.
I can't speak for Dave, but I suspect he left feedback for members he has traded with, probably to test the system and process as much as anything else.
christmascactus
Aug 17, 2004
No not all the members he posted on-were people he traded with-wording different.
dave
Aug 17, 2004
Good grief. I'll go delete my feedback and will stop trading and discontinue any other fun participation on the site. Maybe that'll make you feel better.
Or you could just stop over-reacting to comments.
dave
Aug 17, 2004
I've been answering christmascactus' emails all morning. Having already responded to her, it is disappointing to come here and find she has taken it public as a way to get back at me for hurting her.
dave
I know of no other site where the administrator has been so willing to include the members in making changes on the site. I'm sorry that anyone would email and aggitate in posts. We need to remember that this is Dave's site and he can do whatever he wishes with it. He is just such a good person that he wants us to feel like family by including us when making changes. I would hate to think that anyone would push him to this point over something so petty. I guess I don't understand why anyone would be going to members pages to see what has been written as member feedback anyway. I would only do that when I was ready to do a trade and probably not even then unless it was someone I don't already know. I look at my membership this way: I pay $15 a year. That is a little over a dollar a month and for that price, I think I'll just keep my mouth shut. JMHO.
Well said, Brugie. I did look at other members feedback to see how they were wording posts, etc. IMHO - it's Dave's site, trade with whomever you want, post feedback for whomever you want.
Regarding fairness - life is never fair - adjust! (That's what I was always told!) :)
The intent of the feedback system was To WEED OUT suspicious traders.
That is what this discussion was about. Who Dave chooses to leave feedback for-- is Dave's business and has NOTHING to do with this new tool he has given us.
I don't think that anyone would like to be put on public display like this and quizzed. Dave might be the owner and administrator of this site, however, he is also a gardener, just like the rest of us!
Lets get back to discussing the true purpose of the feedback system, and what we can all do to make it successful!
I'm new to this site and have not yet traded (I certainly will, in future), but in my opinion, this new tool will be very helpful. I like it, for whatever that may be worth. I also think it doesn't hurt to have nice comments every once in a while given to those members who are not only good traders, but who are also particularly helpful and generous to those of us who are still wandering around the site, scratching our heads, or who are new gardeners. After all, what's the point of having this facility where we can share information, plants, and advice, if we can't give the nod occasionally to those who expend extra effort?
And, since I've already stuck my nose in, I may as well throw in another two cents. I would certainly expect that Dave should be able to contribute his opinion as a gardener like everybody else, either in the form of posts, comments, or feedback. I personally prefer an owner/administrator who is also one of the gang. (psst...Dave...I say that with all respect)
sharvis
this is another great thing dave has done for his members-dave was my first trade here and I think he should be aloud(his site)to post whatever n whenever he feels like it!!!
goodness sakes!!!
Let me try this out in public....lol
Dave: Great owner/ administrator...Fair and impartial....Great fellow gardener...A++++++++++
Keep up the good work, Dave..... :)
Dave is a member/subscriber as well as the owner/administrator. He has MORE privileges than the rest of us, not less. He has way more responsibility to go along with it. Why shouldn't he leave feedback for those he has traded with?
Maybe Dave's feedback carries a bit more weight than some of the rest of us, and that is because his hard work and integrity has given him credibility. I can think of another webmaster whose feedback would not carry much weight in my opinion . . . .
my 2 cents . . .
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, wouldn't it be nice if you got an email when new feed back was posted for you? So you could go answer it, or leave reciprocal feedback or whatever . . . I keep checking to see if anyone left feedback for me that I'd forgotten to leave feedback for (does that make sense?) so naturally I thought it would be nice if the system would just let me know . . . =)
Cheri'
i liked having daves feedback on my list!!!! :)
plez put it back dave :)
This message was edited Aug 17, 2004 4:43 PM
I'd like to receive notification of feedback, too; eBay recently implemented that and I appreciate it.
I can't believe somebody even took the time to go through the members to see who Dave posted on. Dave might be the Webmaster of this site. BUT he is also a Gardner. So why shouldn't he be able to trade or leave feedback for people he has traded with? Dave and Trish participating in the forums and things going on in DG are one of the things that make DG special. I like the feeling that the Webmaster and Administrators join in with discussions and other things. To me that means they are a part of the community and not just Administrators. Why shouldn't he participate in anything he wants after all it's his site?
I assumed the feedback Dave left me was from our trades ... not for any other reason. I have traded a few times with Dave and Trish over the years, as I'm sure the others he left feedback have to. (Even though the wording on mine was different.) So what!?! GEEZ! The whole reason he created this site is because he is a gardener.
Personally... I REALLY appreciated it. Even though I don't do a lot of trading, (I don't have time) I am a GOOD trader. Just won't have a lot of feedback.
Feedback's a double-edged sword. People are more likely to contact a company when they have a problem then when they're really happy with a product or transaction. Thus, if you search for company ratings online, you're likely to see a higher number of negatives. The same can hold true with feedback. This way, at least, there is a central place to look for such warnings and to make decisions based on the number and type of complaints that are there. I know when I see negatives at eBay, I'm always interested to see how the member reacted; that can tell a person a lot about a user. I'm glad Dave's giving users a chance to post rebuttals if they feel unjustly accused.
Geeeee, I did not even have the chance to look-up if Dave had written any comments for me.
Why are there always a few members that have to disagree with everything? Can't they realize that they are minority? Do they want Dave to become a little dictator that just imposes his thoughts on us?
Dave could do changes/innovations without even asking us. I do appreciate very much his kindness in making us participate and woud be very sad if, tired from having a few always bugging in his ear, Dave stopped this.
BTW Dave, love today's banner!
Daves garden is very refreshing after my last garden site home.
I never really did like Mickey Mouse.
I'm sure the ratings will do good once people get used to them.
:)
Will someone PLEASE explain Mickey Mouse and Disneyland references....you can email me if you like to 'splain me. Sorry but I never have been 'over there'.
Daisy... When that "Other" garden site boots someone, they get sent to Disney. I don't know personally but I gather when a booted member signs on they are taken to the Disney site and not the garden site... with no notice.
Someone who has been there may have a more definite explanation.
Ahso! All is revealed! Thank you, darius. It was just so darn elusive I was getting ready to sign up over there to get booted just so that I could see what it meant!
Sincerely,
Pavlov's Dog
LOL
Daisy ..... your posts are always so entertaining. What a joy to have you among us!
One more question before we get back to topic ...those of you that went to Disney, did you get any warning 'you're booted' message? or go to log on and 'poof!' ...you're getting comfy with Mickey?
"Poof!" Just like majic.
I never went to Disney but when my DH was booted, he didn't even get the Disney page. He emailed Spike who said he should find another site. I guess he riled up the locals. lol
Maybe only paying members get the "trip".....lol
I got the booted to Disney without being a paying member. No warning or explaination... just my browser was redirected to Disney.com when ever I tried to go there. The offense was speaking of the dreaded "Dave's Garden" in a private e-mail through his system.
Funny, but I do wonder what the Disney-facist folks would say about that........I bet a unfair usage and cease and desist would happen if anyone ever reported that. The Disney's are very protective of their domain.
Can you imagine if an offending member of a site like ebay clicked on something in ebay and the other gardening site's email support popped up in Outlook? Things would change really fast.
vic
Aug 17, 2004
Dave and Trish are my heroes. Afterall, if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have a beautiful garden, I wouldn't have all my dear friends here, and I probably wouldn't know a seed from a plant. This is their website to do as they wish. If people don't like it......
I'm sure that is what was meant....I've visited Disney.com on more than one occassion :-) The latest reason was for asking someone about tadpoles for my pond....seems a garden site is ONLY for plants and nothing else. LOL
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