Could We Have Some Honesty Here ,Please- 2

But the cubits discussion area is gone.

what discussion area?

Yes, I noticed that. Additionally, I do not think that you can build a new cubits

If you haven't yet checked, cubits is up again!

The area with topics such as "Friday morning" and "What can we do to help Trish and Dave."

Please anyone here do not post anything which suggests anything at Cubits which Dave would not want you to.

There are reasons for removing threads. Spying eyes.

Well, all I can say about this whole shebang is that when I joined DG about 7-8 years ago was because it was a fun site, no politics, and all family. Now, I don't even know this site anymore. I really used to love to participate and even promote trades, exchanges, sharing and caring but thats not what it seems to be about anymore. I am so sorry because I made many friends here and loved all the exchange of information but this stuff is outta my league and I want no part of it. It isn't fun anymore.
So sorry to all my long friends. I will finish the trades that I started but I am outta here
Jan

This will probably get me kicked off, but Daves rebuttal.
http://cubits.org/dave/thread/view/24252/

Hey everyone! It's a gorgeous day here! Hope it is wherever you are too! I was happy to hear Cubits is back up! Yayyy!! =) =)

First off, I'd like to say again that I don't work for IB. How many times have I said that now? I've gotten slammed for other things I've repeated...funny how I have to keep repeating that tho. Oh, well. Maybe you should ask Miguel or Terry if I work for them, ha.

Why on earth would you think I work for them anyway? Where does that come from? Simply because I'm looking at this from a different angle than you are? Because I'm not ready to jump ship over someone else's arguement?

Also, you've gotten your Cubits back now...so....are you all still planning on leaving DG? Does that still even make sense? Wasn't that what this was all supposed to be about? "We want our Cubits or we'll leave!!" You got what you want, so why are you leaving?

First you wanted an apology, you got that...but was it even acknowleged?

What do you all **reallly** want here? Who is really doing the bullying here? Read over some of the posts in this thread alone. Can you for 10 seconds try putting yourself in my shoes and see things from my perspective? Do you think perhaps I feel a bit bullied? Am I here alone or are there 3 or 4 other people backing me up on my stance? How many of you are taking the same stance?

You know, I'm not saying I'm perfect...I'm saying I'm trying my darndest here. But before all of us go pointing fingers about who is a bully maybe we need to look in the mirror? (and yeah about the "prying eyes" remark...I've read some of your posts on other sites....wow, just wow)

The apology is here, from Miguel to, well, I guess you could say everyone at large. It's under point 1

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7834694

What a disappointment to hear that all this stuff is going on in DG. That's why I left GardenWeb, and why I'll now leave DG. I know Dave and I know that what he's been accused of is simply not true and not believable.

Judith Clausen

[quote="heathrjoy]
First you wanted an apology, you got that...but was it even acknowleged?
What do you all **reallly** want here?
Am I here alone or are there 3 or 4 other people backing me up on my stance? How many of you are taking the same stance?[/quote]

I am withe heather....this has all gone waay to far. Cubits is back so can we all just wait ans see what happens

Thank you GardenChick =)

I agree with Heather and others that things need to cool down. The Cubits people have their site back (I assume some are still here in spite of the quitting promises). Like most legal hassles the truth usually lies somewhere between the two disputing parties and that is what courts are for. Although people (myself included) get furious at lawyers, the alternative to settling things in court is to have people physically battle it out and that is a terrible alternative (seen in many parts of the world with weak legal systems). Sometimes some of the worst accusations are really starting points for negotiations and plea bargains. When the dust settles, maybe Dave and IB will reach an accommodation suitable to both. It is to be hoped no one here has taken such an extreme position or said such extreme things that friends cannot be friends again and look back at it as a bad dream. I know I did not have a dog in this fight initially as I never heard of Cubits until Wednesday, but I have belonged to DG for several years even when circumstances determined I could not sign in for several months at a time. I never felt a part of most of the chat groups as I did not know anyone, but I have enjoyed the plant and animal forums and truly hope they will be maintained by IB and the many contributors.

I agree too...

I am an Admin on a private cubits. but if Cubits vanished tomorrow it would not be that huge of a deal in my life.

I will repeat what I said on another thread here..

Has onyone heard of the term 'mud sticks'?

A heck of a lot of mud has been slung at Dave to the point where he was nearly buried and unable to climb out of that pile of mud.

Think of the long term consequences to Dave's reputation and employment prospects.

I see far too much flippancy here when it comes to a person's reputation, not only his but that of his family and all the stress associated with having been dragged under a fast speed train.

Not to mention of course the stress caused to others.

The thread with Miguel's allegations is getting a lot of views, but how many people will take the time to scroll down to read the rebuttals? Very few.

I can only say I am astonished by the appallingly unsympathetic views of some people here.

Why in the world, Heather was it necessary for you to dredge up today any problems from yesterday. It really seems like it is you who is continuing to fuel any contention here. Not a single other person began this day with negativity or boohoing about the past. It is in the past. How about leave it there.
Sheesh!!

u have that right wallaby but what about all the mud slining WE have been doing to eachother when no one here knows the whole story or truth

how many peopple called u names yesterday birdie maybe she feels hurt by all this

I have not called anyone "names" and I do not appreciate it being insinuated or stated that I did! I do not do that and my friends know that to be true.

not saying u personal did abything but read over many threads and that is what was primarily going on

Ok, you know what, I wasn't going to do this yet, but here goes......

I'm not unsympathetic towards Dave. I think Dave is a great guy. I think Dave is super smart. I think Dave is fun. I think Trish is nice. I think Trish is friendly. That is what I know of them.


HOWEVER...I do NOT think Dave or Trish are super humans. Some of the adjectives that the cubit members have used to describe Dave & Trish give me great concern. It would give me great concern if those folks were talking about religious leaders and used those adjectives...and some of the folks using these adjectives...well...I'm pretty sure they are athiests.

Why? Not because I don't think Dave & Trish are great people, they are!! But NO ONE is as good as y'all seem to think Dave is. It's NOT possible. He is NOT infallible. I'm not saying he's at fault in this situation, but he is going to screw up at some point simply because he is human like the rest of us.

Y'all seem to have exhorted him to a place where he can do no wrong, EVER. That's troublesome to me.

Furthermore, I find it troublesome that y'all are willing to make yourselves martyrs on his behalf....giving up what you love so dearly to prove your allegiance to him. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. First of all, why would he allow you to do that? If he truly cared about y'all he wouldn't want that for you. Wouldn't he tell you that this is HIS fight, not yours?

I saw a post on Cubits where someone called the Cubits members the "Whitinger children" (Whitinger is Dave's last name). Ok. If that's how you look at yourselves...would a good father take something away from a child that they loved, was good for them, was meaningful to them and was not harmful to them? Would he make them choose?? Um, would he give them a snake if they asked for bread?

You may see this as though IB is making you choose, but please look closer and examine things a bit better. Are you **certain** it is not your "father's" approval you are wanting? Are you **certain** you are not being motivated by fear of being kicked out of the "family"?

The only one choosing is YOU. You can push it off on whatever or whomever you want to, but ultimately it is your choice, and YOU will be the ONLY one who loses out on what you love.

For me, this has nothing to do with legal matters. I don't know what happened there, how could I? If you care to know what I believe, it's this: I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of what we have all been told by both Dave and IB. I have read all of what they have both said. There are two sides to every story. We may never know the whole truth. I don't even know if it's any of our business anyway.

I'd also like to say this...if you do not take the time to examine these issues in your heart then you are following blindly, and that's never a good thing.

If you are still questioning my motives (as so many of you have asked repeatedly if I work for IB, lol) please look over the types of questions I have been asking...they were all leading up to this type of post...I hope you can see that.

Now, if you CHOOSE to you can pick this apart, carry it back to Cubits, Tinkers, ProBoards (and all the other places). You can do whatever you WANT to, it's up to you...and at this point I'm kinda getting used to turning the other cheek. I have read some of the comments made on those boards/forums, and please let me say, at the very least, some of the things were uncalled for...and downright hurtful to me personally.

One last point. I do have access to where y'all hang out in other places. I have never ONCE made any kind of disruptive post, not even to defend myself. I've wanted to very badly...but those are "your" places. So, why is it that since you seem so "burdened" with your DG sub that you still badger here?

One other thing....
For those of you who have sent me d.mail, who are trying to play "both sides" I really don't care. I have answered you honestly and hid nothing from you. I will not list your names here because you have asked me to keep it private and I will honor that. However, I do think it's a low down thing to do...to act as if you are my friend in d.mail and then be as much as one of the "lead runners" on the cubits site. People will never cease to amaze me.

For all of those who have sent me other types of d.mails, again, I thank you very much for your encouraging words and I'm sorry if I've disappointed you in anyway...but I understand if I have.

heathrjoy,
Why are you in the middle of this anyway?

Weeds,
Simply because I care about the folks I've met at DG.

I have nothing to gain or lose....other than friends

ROFL...with caring like this..who would want it.
Seems to be just a lot of venting by mostly one person.
sort of reminds me of a kid saying..."he's looking at me"...."she touched me"

um, are we adults here or children. I am unwatching this garbage. My time is to valuable for this.

Thanks to all those of you who have contributed in a mature and manner.
To my friends- see ya in the old familiar comfy forums! ^_^

I guess some folks can't handle being wrong...

woof woof

:-D

heathrjoy ~ If you wonder why some have not been on this thread, they are in a boycott, from yesterday noon, to Tuesday.

Many are just going to "wait it out" and see what happens, OK? Unfortunately, some have already left, *never* to come back. Some damage has already been done by IB, hopefully they will make things right and retain what's left of the membership. I suppose we will have to wait as well.

Let's see if IB will "step up to the plate", and do what's right.

revclaus ~ why don't you wait and see what happens? Some people are participating in a boycott from yesterday until Tuesday morning. I do not know how many as many have already left the website for good.

I was going to do that as well, but I thought, what if IB actually takes all of this into account and since they are backed into a corner, they would do something to turn this whole fiasco around?

As I see it, they have little choice, if they really care as they claim, and if they don't have things going foward into a positive outcome, many more will drop out on Tuesday.

Heather-I don't think anyone is setting out to be martyrs but just trying to support something and someone they believe in. A lot of people that are taking the stance of leaving DG are doing it for 1 of 2 reasons:
1-they are unhappy with the direction of the site both before and because of this matter.
2-they are supporting a friend that they believe in their hearts is being wronged.

I can't fault either reasoning for wanting to leave. Just as it is your choice to stay and be the advocate for the "can't we all just get along" (and by no means am I poking fun), some are advocating for different reasons. I understand your reasoning for what you are trying to do, just as I understand the others reasoning as well. I DO NOT understand all the underhanded and malicious statements that have been made

I am sure that you are a person that thinks that people are allowed to do as they want and not be coerced that you can understand others feeling this way as well.

I have not said much, but I do find it ironic that some of the recent posts are ridiculing others for name calling and defamatory comments, when they themselves have made those comments on either this thread or the others discussing this issue.

I find that most people when they reach adulthood rarely change their behaviors from adolescence. If someone was a bully in school, they are usually a brash, bullying person in adulthood as well and the same goes for the kid that was always buttering up to the teachers and the kid that was always crying about getting hurt. MY opinion, not to be mistaken for fact.

I am in fact in support of Dave 100%, but as I have friends here too, I am not going anywhere soon. I do not however know if I will renew my subscription since a lot of the things I used to belong to DG for are now out of my price range as well as the yhearly fee. I guess that is a bridge I will cross when I get to it.

I came in on this thread a bit late (and apparently missed a thread prior to this one)... Earlier I asked "Is there some Over-Throw-Dave issue that I don't know about?". The unfortunate issue is that I don't really know what I've missed. I've been trying to read to keep up but I think I'm just not fully comprehending what this is about. All I've seen is a lot of back and forth between "two sides". I tried to read the previous thread, but the link brought up an error. I hate to ask anyone to be a broken record, but can someone please tell me what this is about? Generally, I tend to ignore "political" issues like this, but I'm seeing things like "people are leaving DG" and "prices are going up" and "major changes to DG". I just want to know if I, as a member, should be worried? Any clarification on what started this would be helpful. Thanks, Tina :)

if you have managed to avoid getting sucked in to this mess your lucky tina

Dave built another webpage and IB thinks he violated a non-compete clause he had with NM, saying it was transferd to them as is standard business practice. Sugest you go read Migules statement on internet breand thread and read dvesa responce on cubits you will get the most accrate info there

Tina-I sent you a Dmail giving a brief summation directing you to the same thread that has Michael's posts as well as Dave's rebuttal's posted by other members. If you really want to know, I highly doubt you want a one sided narration.

I have been lurking in the background of all of the politics & personal ideas of what's going on with DG & Cubits. Every-one seems to have their own ideas & have heard that a lot of members are leaving---I for one have taken the 'Wait & See' attitude!
I've been a member of Dave's for a few years & love the site! I also joined Cubits when I found out Dave had started a new one!

Have to admit---I spend more time on DG!

My question is this---IB, if it isn't broken---why fix it???? Dave's has been such a wonderful gardening site for so many years, with so many members world wide----why change it????