Could We Have Some Honesty Here ,Please- 2

I think it's insensitive in a universal sense for one person to prioritize or quantify another person's loss by comparing it to anything at all. I'm not personalizing my statement. I may or may not specifically agree with what stillwood's stated. I don't care to express that here. I just believe it's incorrect to presume to know the level of loss or grief that others feel. Compassion in a very broad sense. And I would respond the same to your comment. No offense.

wheedwhacker/sandy,
Yes, there is much reason for you to stay active here. Please do. This will take some time. This wound is still fresh, too fresh. Take some time in the garden, it's healing....

Aguane, no offense taken. What you last posted just reminds me of the woman who compared my losing my baby with her losing her dog. So, I'm used to it.

See, that's why I believe it's not productive and could be hurtful that people compare their "anything" to another person's "anything". Just doesn't compute. So sorry for your loss ... as they say, "nothing can compare". .... nothing can compare to anyone's loss.

I really can`t compare this to anything specific. When I was little I cried for two days after my goldfish died. I used to spend a lot of time watching him(or her) swim and think and just feel good while I watched. Losing my cubit isn`t good. I met people I didn`t know were on DG and made new friends too. I didn`t get a lot of traffic to my cubit of posters but my log thing showed readers and people were looking around and coming back. I can`t help but say the experience was like therapy for me. I loved it!

Now, I know Dave and Trish are alright. This isn`t devastating but it is a call to seek refuge and take time to think. When one door closes another opens. Karen

This message was edited May 28, 2010 7:55 PM

Well, if stillwood's comment didn't put things in perspective, yours certainly did, Heather. I'm so sorry for your loss. How sad that you had to experience such insult added to injury!

Aguane, I agree....and I agree with Gardener2005 too. But, I also agreed w the woman who had lost her dog...in some crazy way maybe her losing her dog was as traumtic for her as losing a child was for me. I know a lot of folks can't understand that...especially me making that comparison...but I don't know how fragile that woman was inside.

...and that's why it bothers me when people say that I think I know how they are feeling or thinking. I'd never assume that. NEVER. If I did assume that I certainly wouldn't spend my whole day in here trying to find out how everyone's doing.

Thank you, bivbiv, I appreciate that...but that's not my point. I said that one post very quickly and badly as DBF was coming in from work. I do apologize for that Aguane...I didn't mean to do that.

Um, I feel like I've missed something in translation... Is there some "Over-throw-Dave" issue that I don't know about? Dude, seriously? The thread was way too long for me to follow :(

I think we are cross posting a little bit. I`m sorry if my postings are a little out of synch with some of the others. When I feel this way I call my Mom. I better go talk to her while I have her. Everyone take care. bye/bye Karen

Heather, that's very kind of you to be so understanding of that woman's loss and its impact in her life. I've lost and grieved over beloved pets, but I don't think I could ever equate those losses with the loss of a human life. As much as I loved each of those pets, I'd gladly have given them up (well, not truly gladly) if it could have meant saving the life of one of my friends or family members. I remember making that remark once to a friend when I had just lost my precious mother-in-law, and she was appalled. I never did understand her reaction, especially since her first husband and two children had been killed by a train. But I digress; I apologize for getting off topic. It's just that I thought you reaction was touching.

over throw Dave? Not that I know of....

I'm all for Dave doing well. I'm all for Cubits doing well. I'm all for DG doing well.

I'd just hate to see DG go sour because people are leaving because they feel the "need to support Dave." I don't understand that. I wish someone would explain that here in a calm manner....

It's more like defending free speech, freedom to choose, in general, rights that every American is supposed to have.

Including the right to defend one's self. Miguel waited until after Cubits closed to attack. Both Dave and Trish are not allowed to post here.

Something that I would like to share... A mail from Dave...


I just emailed this to Michael:

Mr. Egan,

The following statement that you made:

-------------------
When we attempted to use our admin tools to change this we realized that Dave, prior to handing over the code to us, placed a large number of "backdoors" into the davesgarden codebase that gave both him and his wife special privileges, including the fact that no one could change his own profile.
-------------------

is absolutely untrue, and I am confident that you have no evidence to support this false allegation. The damage that this libelous statement is doing to my reputation is incalculable.

Already as of this moment, your website has recorded over 1,000 views of this statement. A simple retraction is an insufficient remedy but it is necessary. I need you to immediately remove that paragraph and replace it with a correction in which you state that at most you are alleging this but have not established it as a fact.

Moreover, I am reserving all my available legal options.

If you will not post an immediate retraction, you need to have your lawyer contact my lawyer immediately. My attorney (e-mail address is copied in this email) is [removed] and his cell phone number is [removed].

This is a very serious problem that needs to be handled immediately. Every moment that this statement is allowed to remain on the website constitutes a continued willful unfounded and libelous attack on my character and reputation.

Dave

I posted same on another thread but migueal ignored it.

cross posted with chris

Miguel had to wait until the issue was resolved one way or the other before he could freely discuss what would have been the subject of litigation had matters gone in that direction. Once the c-and-d order was followed there was apparently no need to take legal action, and therefore the details could be disclosed to non-participants in the potential action.

I was very upset so many of my new friends would be leaving DG, and I am still a bit weary of some of there business practices, but I also agree that Miguel is not IB he is an employee of a company chosen to run this site as best as it can, nothing more.
I do think dave was right to tell the cubit owners about the termination. Although it is still proper business to not discuss legal matters with others untill the matter is resolved. A lot of this is boarding on slander and we do not know all of the details. I was quick to jump in and be mad but I didn't have all of the facts..........none of us did

molamola you said

Heather, just wanted to comment that a lot of us are here reading, waiting for information. I refresh every so often, to see what has been posted lately.

I really don't have anything to contribute to the conversation, and I don't like making assumptions and accusations. I'm very sad for all the people who have lost access to their sites that they've worked so hard on. I'm sad for the people who are pulling away from DG, and feel it has to be an "us against them" issue. I'm sad for Dave and Trish, who not only have to deal with the legal issues, but also have to deal with all the emotions, demands for information, and offers of help (many of which are not at all helpful.)

Mostly, I'm just sitting here, reading, and feeling sad that a close family now appears to be feuding.

Hoping level heads will prevail, and that both DG and Cubits can progress at some point in the future. All the threats and withdrawn memberships and advertiser boycotts in the world won't have much impact on the legal issues involved. Either IB is entitled to the non-compete clause, or they aren't. The legal teams will have to work it out.

Sigh.

Angie

Thanks for your interpretation, appreciate it. I was asking Miguel. I never 'assume', nor do I speak for others' about their actions. My question stands. To Miguel.

Heather you need to take a break, get some food, rest, take a walk, . . . something. Not trying to be mean.

I agree Booker. But please don't think you don't have anything to contribute! The "us against them" mentality seems to me what is hurting a lot of people. I'm guessing that's why a lot of people feel they have no choice but to leave. That's what I don't understand, and what I'm trying to understand. Why do people feel they have no choice? We all have a choice...we don't have to allow this to ruin DG...that IS a choice.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm good.

Again, no one ever "never" or "always" anything. I just don't believe that's possible.

And, hey, if y'all are trying to find fault with me...well, you're going to be here for a long, long, long time...finding lots and lots and lots of faults. I'll make ya a list if you want...I know them better than anyone else, ha. Can we just get passed that already, please?

Could we possibly find common ground? Heck, if you want to we can find common ground in my faults if you want. I don't really care.

I'm not trying to be anyone's enemy here. I apologize if I'm coming across that way. I've said over and over what my intentions are.

May I ask what your intentions are? I have explained myself over and over and apologized repeatedly for things that were very silly to keep the peace. Would anyone else like to explain themselves as I have?

Again, this is not said to be snotty, smug, holier than thou, offensive, rude, snide or anything like that. I have a feeling that some will take this for what it's worth and others will take it out of context. All I can say about that is that I hope folks will remember what DG is supposed to be about...it can be about that...if we CHOOSE that. it is our CHOICE what we post and where we post and what we do.

I think when people say "I have no choice".. it's a decision based on their belief systems and values. Their belief systems and values are well defined and when they are violated or offended they act in support of their values. Values they expect out of the actions of other human beings. The action, in itself, is a choice but it's based on their own values.

Heather,
it may not be "us against them" but I cant stand on both sides of the fence at the same time. Not if I still want to like what I see in the mirror in the morning.
I must choose 1 side and stand up for it. I am not looking for an argument but I wont back down from one either. I also dont like double talk or lying through omission, so I chose the side that seems to have the morals and integrity to be as open and forthcoming as possible.
That is my choice. Which also means I wont be able to continue to support this site after my subscription runs out.

chris

Chris, you said that quite eloquently and it mirrors my feelings exactly.

rylaff, Thank you very much. I dont look educated but I are! :)

Thanks Chris.

Chris, please understand that I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else. Please forgive me if I've come across that way. I don't like double talk or lying through omission either, nor do I like manipulation. I have no time for those things.

Please help me to understand why you, and possibly so many others, feel as though this is YOUR fight and you HAVE to choose a side.

I'm not asking this to argue or to find fault. I'm asking this to understand.

Aguane, I think I understand what you're saying. I have a well defined beleif and value system. Could you please explain to me what exactly about this situation has violated or offended your belief and values system? I'm not being difficult. Again, I'm trying to understand how Dave's business deal going bad affects your values. I don't mean for that to sound cold, and I think maybe it does, but I don't mean it that way.

Chris, Rylaff, I agree with you.

I stumbled across this thread and thought about not responding, but decided to add my voice. I am deeply saddened by the transitions and changes in ownership here at DG and the way that it has all been handled, like I would react to any friend who has been treated unfairly in a business deal. I have been a member here for several years. Like many, I did an internet search for the care of a particular plant and was amazed at the wealth of knowledge and information that was available here. Then I became a member and started getting more and more involved in my favorite threads till I felt like I had made many new friends. To me, Dave and Trish were the embodiment of Dave's Garden. They represented it's spirit. When he sold the site, I was sad, but decided to take a wait and see attitude, the same when the site was sold again. Now, I feel like I can see what spirit is being represented here and I don't think I want to be a part of it. Dave sold the site with the understanding that he would still be involved, but was quickly disabused of that idea. Now he moves on to his next endeavor only to have IB try to take that from him, too (though I hope only temporarily.) I do not know what IB wants to accomplish, but it feels a little scary to me and I do not like their tactics.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I have learned not to make decisions based on emotion, but I do hope and pray that this comes to a happier conclusion. Sometimes we make decisions because we just don't want to be associated with businesses who deal in unethical practices.

heatherjoy,
I haven't expressed my opinion here. I'm only speaking in concept generalities. It doesn't do me or anyone else any good to talk about how I personally feel. I only want to bring to light the conditions folks will consider when making "choice" type decisions. I don't have any facts at all to make comments about IB, DG or Dave, and I won't make comments. I'm only talking about human nature and behavior when faced with controversy and how people make decisions or choices. My believe system or values, for all intents and purposes, have not been violated.

Heatherjoy, it's really quite simple, I can summarise what the problem is in one word.

MORALS

May I add that it seems you are more interested in wanting people to understand YOUR VIEWS, than YOU trying to understand others PREDICAMENTS.

Heathr,
I will try to explain what I feel and why, but I can not "help you to understand". You will have to do that on your own.
This is "MY" fight because there is a side that I believe is more right and I believe in standing up for what you believe in. This country was built by people standing up for what they believe in. My son is an active military man so that I CAN stand up for what I believe in. I dont usually get along with people who have soft handshakes or soft opinions. If you believe in something, let me know it! I have the choice to agree or disagree.
I "HAVE" to choose because I am a deliberate person. I do or say very little by accident. Also for the same reasons as above.

Once I have the information that I need to decide what I believe, then it would be fighting against myself to stay and support the opposite side.
The decision that I came to was that, in my opinion...what IB did was very bad business and I have a tremendous dislike for bad business!

This may not actually explain what you wanted but its the best I have.

HeatherJoy wrote
Please help me to understand why you, and possibly so many others, feel as though this is YOUR fight and you HAVE to choose a side.


Cubits gave space to their members to create a web page of any contant they choose. They Believed them selves as owners and operators of their own pages. Imagine if tomorrow you lost Facebook or Myspace for any reason you may be upset in the wasted time and energy you spent creating your profile. No one likes to lose there creation. That is what has so many so upset...how did you somehow manage to read all this and not already get that


Edited to fix typos

This message was edited May 28, 2010 9:22 PM

This message was edited May 28, 2010 9:23 PM

I understood it Chris! =^..^=

ty kitty. :)

For so many people , Daves and Cubits has been so much more than just a website. There is conviction, feeling, emotions, love, commitment, time and a host of other things that makes humans unique. And to take all that and contain it in two websites is certain to create a huge upsurge if all of that is moved, changed, deleted. Mankind has always stood up for what they fervently believe in. If you were suddenly evicted from your home for what you believe to be an unjust reason. If you saw the same thing happening to your extended family, your emotions would be very strong and you would cry out. Isnt this the very thing in which the good old USA was founded on? There have been many things in my life that I felt so strongly about that I needed my voice to be heard. Some were my own battles, but as a nurse, sometimes it was an injustice that I felt for someone else. These people here are doing just that. We all grieve in our own way. Some loudly, some not.
I dont expect everyone to have the same feelings, committment, and indignation that I feel. Cubits was one of my homes and now it is gone and I grieve not only for myself, not just for the other town residents, but for the mother and father of Cubits.

What rylaff said

See, that is one thing I don't get about all of this...and I think perhaps the Facebook comparison is a good one. I have a Facebook account, and while it is "my account" and my work...I really don't own it.

I've had several .coms. Those I've owned and built myself. That's a different story.

The time and work involved is no different tho. I get that. I do feel for those who have lost their Cubits.