Could We Have Some Honesty Here ,Please- 2

We came from here.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forum/t/1101381/

This is a discussion on changes involving Daves Garden.

I am still waiting to find out what happens to our Cubits. Today is Friday and I was told today is the day they are shutting us down.

We're still up. I just came from there.
Vickie

This is a discussion on changes involving Daves Garden? That may be a little misleading. No changes to DG as far as I know.

I think there have been changes here. I can tell things are more strict, etc. It seems the site is down more for maintenance as well. I can definitely tell things are not the same.

I just posted this on the previous thread, but since it will now most likely be missed, I am posting it here....


There's something I would like to say here because there's something I don't understand...

I'd like to ask if the "other" thread means the one started by Pixiedish? I'm pretty sure it is. I'd also like to ask if by "a couple of the original posters" you mean me? I'm pretty sure you did.

In response, I'd just like to say this...
I have nothing more to do with IB than any of you. I am a member of DG. To clear up any questions anyone may have, I do not work for them. I recieve nothing from them whatsoever.

For someone to tihnk that I would have "been in on something with IB" because I participated in Pixie's thread...well, to me, that just shows how far out of hand this whole situation has become. To me, that is paranoia. I had/have already stated my reasons on this thread for why I thought that Pixie's idea/way of doing things was a good idea...and guess what? It worked, we got a response! The response may not have covered every single, little question that we had, but we got something, which is better than nothing. It was a start, a beginning. It was working...until people came onto that thread and allowed it to disintigrate...accused Pixie of what you have basically accused her and I (and others) of here...

Folks, what is the point of all of this anyway? Seriously? What is the point? I know you're all angry. You're hurt. So am I. But are you so deep in that that you can't see you're only willing to fight? Are you even looking for a solution or are you just out for blood? Do you even care where that blood comes from? Are you just looking for someone to blame at this point? Someone to blame other than Dave & Trish? How many of you have really stopped to take time to examine this situation from all angles? No, *really* examine it...I mean take some time away from your computers (at least 12 hours or more) and allow yourselves to become UN-emotional for a while? That's got to be very hard for most of us to do, considering all that is at stake...the more we have to lose the more emotional we are going to be and more we are going to want to blame and fight. That's just how I see it.

For the record I'd like to say, I hope Cubits and IB finds a solution. I hope Cubits ends up being the greatest thing on the Web. I wish Dave and Trish every good and great and wonderful thing possible...but I also wish the same for Miguel and Terry and IB. Why wouldn't I???? For goodness sakes, how many of you have spouted about the Christian values of this site??? Come on then, people! You know better! Don't be wishing ill on anyone...how many of you have said "what goes around comes around"...well, that applies to YOU too, please don't forget that. And, before anyone feels the need to point it out to me...I know I'm a fool, I'm an idiot. I'm not saying all this stuff because I think I'm so high and mighty and holier than thou. I'm saying it because I want all this malarky to stop. This arguing and fighting is what hurts me the most...it doesn't do anyone any good. What good has it done for you? Maybe 30 seconds of instant gratification...but after that...????...what are you left with??? How good did you sleep last night?

And I know...I know...everyone feels as though they are sticking up for their friend...or at the very least sticking up for the little guy who's being beaten down by a big bully. David and Goliath. I get it. I even agree. Except there's one thing missing from all of that. WE DON'T KNOW THAT FOR CERTAIN guys. We just don't. And you're reply is, "Yeah we do, cuz Dave told me so!!!" Hey, Dave is a GREAT guy. I know that, I agree with that. I'm not trying to sully his rep, that's not my point. I'm not saying that Dave lied...but what if he was wrong? Dave isn't a lawyer...THAT is what I'm saying. I DO NOT believe Dave would put his work and all of you at risk intentionaly. I don't believe that, that's just stupid. Dave isn't stupid.

One other thing I'd like to say, and I know you'll all dislike this, but I feel like y'all are already slamming me so what's the difference now? I'd like to point out that there are a lot of people holding Miguel personally responsible for all of this. Why is that? IB is the company who is doing this, not Miguel. Also, to my knowledge, neither Miguel or anyone else, has pointed this out. Instead, he has taken your abuse...and there has been some real name calling and mud slinging going on. Miguel is a middle man. I would not want to be in his shoes. Honestly, I couldn't do his job (or Terry's or Taila's). I would have kicked all of us off of here a long, long time ago. I don't have the patience for it, and neither do most of you...and we've all proven that. So, please, when you go to attacking, at the very least, attack the correct entity...that's just fair. You do want to play fair, right? That is one of our biggest complaints, right...that this whole game isn't fair??? Well, maybe we need to take a look at our own record too. Just MHO.

And, hey, as long as y'all don't like me already, and I'm getting things off my chest in the "vent" thread...there is something else that has been running through my head about all of this...
I do agree 110% that Dave is a great guy. However, it has occurred to me that one of the reasons he has always appeared to be such a great guy is perhaps because he always got someone else to do his dirty work for him. Perhaps I'm wrong...but, maybe not. Think about it...and I know you won't. That's where the danger lies...you WON'T think about it. You just write it off immediately...that's called following blindly, guys. Anyhoo...who always did the dirty work on DG when Dave was here? Terry did. If there was a nasty d.mail that needed to be sent out it was signed by Terry, not Dave. Terry was the meany on most occassions. Dave was the nice guy who gave us all the great things to play with...Terry was the one who kept us in line, sent us snide d.mails, slapped our wrists, etc. Dave was the one who booted us, but we always knew it was because Terry told him to. Who's doing the dirty work in this situation? I know y'all don't feel that way...because your IN the middle of it...you don't see clearly when you're IN it...but at some point you will. Guys, it's not good. Dave is making a power play too, IB isn't the only one doing it...Dave is too, he's just not doing it on his own. I know you're doing it "of your free will"...but what would happen if you all took the stance that I'm taking??? What is your opinion of me right now? Am I going to be welcome at the new Cubits (or whatever it'll be)? Or will I be an outsider? Will I be welcomed back into the "family" or not? There is your answer...to everything...

One very last thing that concerns me. At this point, no, I don't give a flyin' donkey's behind if you love or hate Dave & Trish...in this situation, because that is not what this is about. My concern is that some folks have gotten confused to the point of thinking that caring for, loving, or supporting Dave & Trish is what makes them good people and on the "right side"...That it makes them good people in general and good people in this situation. No association with anyone or anything makes you good, I don't care what or who it is. This actually gives me great concern about the well being of some of my friends and the folks around here...but, I've been there, and I know the most of you won't hear me...cuz that little voice inside of you is yelling louder and it's producing fear. Just remember, whenever you do anything out of fear it's irrational...and fear will always hold you prisoner.

I wish all of you...each and every single one of you...Dave, Trish, Miguel, Terry, Taila, Melody, gone2seed...and every other person well. I have no ill will towards any of you, over this situation or any other. My greatest hope is that the anger and pain subside and that folks will quit trying to hurt each other. My second greatest hope is that this situation is resolved very quickly, that somehow there is peace, everyone gets enough of what they want to be content and burry the hatchet.

I've taken the time to write all of this, from my heart. It's the truth, from my point of view. You may not like it, you don't have to, it's my opinion, it's how I feel. I would sincerely appreciate it if this was taken for what it's worth...and not twisted and turned into something else. You don't have to like what I've written, you don't have to like me. That's fine, I can deal with that...but you don't need to turn it into something it's not meant to be either. None of this written to be snide, mean, offensive or hurtful to anyone. If it has been, I apologize. There has been enough of that already. I doubt anyone will ready all of this anyway =) =) =)

I hope everyone has a safe and happy Memorial Day weekend.

I'm dumbfounded. So anyone who doesn't share this Dave-is-always-right and everyone-else-is-always-wrong point of view is "an obvious shill"? People who disagree with you are obvious plants? That is a dangerous and closed-minded approach.

Pixydish only called for reasonable and respectful dialogue. She didn't even attempt to discuss either point of view. I attempted to present examples of how we might be misinterpreting what we've seen and to ask that people wait for more information to judge or take action.

I seriously feel badly for people who have spend all that time on cubits only to see it disappear and who then are pulling their membership here and losing contact with friends. What happens if IB and Dave work this whole thing out next week? Those people will have sacrificed something important to them for no reason.

This fear of differing viewpoints is disconcerting, to say the least. The crazy part is that I don't gain or lose anything here. I'm not so emotionally invested in this site that I'll lose anything more than a good resource if I leave. But many people are really making what amounts to a huge sacrifice to them based on some outrageous statements. I would hope that's not what this fear-mongering is trying to achieve.

If it helps, check my membership. I was a member here before IB entered the picture.

This message was edited May 28, 2010 11:42 AM

Oh, and heathrjoy - nicely said.

Heathroy, I will be honest with you, though I may hurt your feelings. I didn't read your post. I scrolled past it and skimmed words here and there because it's just too long. I'm sorry. You seem very nice, and spent a lot of time, but it's tooooooo long for me.

nap, I expected that reaction from most folks...I knew that would happen...and I do admit it's disappointing to me. As for hurting my feelings, you'd have to try much, much harder than that!! =)

nap,

Take the time to read, please. It's worth it.

Hap

heathrjoy, I did take the time to read all of your post. I would personally not have stuck my neck out on a couple of issues (one mainly) to the extent you did if you want to stay here.

This message was edited May 28, 2010 7:27 PM

Quilter5bdsr wrote on another thread...

"I did take the time and read your complete post heathrjoy. You obviously gave your words a great deal of thought. What I got out of your post was that we should take the time to think about our posts before we allow ourselves to get caught up in a moment. Also that, right or wrong, we need to show all sides of this situation that we are adults. Anger is in my heart and disappointment but I'm trying hard to just be sad and not angry but it is just so difficlut. But I will heed your words and think before I post again. "

I guess that sums it up pretty darn well for me too. Except that I don't think I've spoken angry words here yet. (did I say "yet?")

Thanks heathrjoy.

Thanks nap for moving that for me. I haven't spoken any angry words either. Nor will I. I was brought up better than that. I think of myself as a lady and I will act like one.....

Miguel has posted to these forums in a professional role and has identified himself as a representative of Internet Brands.

I read it and have only two things to add to my last post. First, I think Terry was doing the job that she was hired to do, which was those things you mentioned. Like "the someone else to do his dirty work" and a whole lot more. I've always had great respect for Terry. Once I even told her she should run for President (remember, Terry?). And I believe she and Dave always had respect for each other.

Second, concerning Pixiedish being a shill for IB, I just posted elsewhere that I am the one who told her that she should start a new thread and I even said "please."

wallaby, I know what you're talking about and let there be no secrets...it was asking to have my pics removed from PlantFiles. I'm sure most everyone here knows it, lol. I had always planned on doing that if/when I left DG. I didn't do that for anyone's benefit but my own. Did I do it while I was angry? Yeah, I did. Did Admin know that? Yeah, they did. Do I blame them for taking down my thread that day? Nope! They aren't stupid, I don't think they are, lol.

I know what I've done. I've already sent out my d.mails and said my farewells in case I'm not around in a week or so. However, that doesn't mean I can't have a change of heart...do you remember what my reasoning was for joining Pixie's thread?...

It was..."what's the definition of insanity???"....doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I told y'all that I was the first to fight and get into someone's face...and I was, wasn't I?? But, when it didn't work we need to try something new...cheerfully.

And, I did stick my neck out. I believe in doing that. Actually, that's what I'm doing now...in a different way. I'm "risking it all" just in a different way. I just don't think you guys can see it from my point of view. I don't want DG to change...and if y'all leave it'll change. That's the bottom line for me. It's about the people...not Dave & Trish...not IB...not Cubits...not Corporate America...not legal documents. I don't give a huey about any of that crap. I care about the people here....and for that I will risk all of you hating me because you don't understand what I'm trying to do. That's how I was raised. =)

thank you to everyone who read all my ramblings. I sincerely appreciate that more than you know.

Ok, Miguel is a representative of IB. So? That does not make him personally responsible for all of their decisions....no more so than Terry was ever personally responsible for being the one who had to send out the nasty d.mails to us. Right?

Is that a good comparison?

All I'm saying is at the very least please realize that Miguel and IB are not the same

Miguel is paid to do this. Don't try to start a "poor Miguel" thing.

Believe me, I'm not trying to start a poor Miguel thing, lol.

I just honestly, sincerely wonder if most of you realize that you are NOT separating Miguel and IB...as you seem to so easily be able to separate Terry and DG or Dave and DG?

There is a very heavy under-current that Dave is just and right and good...and Miguel is evil and wrong and bad. MIGUEL not IB.

If it were IB the corporation alone that was being labled as evil and bad I guess I could more understand that...not agree with it...but understand it.

I see it as wrong to do this to an individual. Again, all this is my opinion...you're entitled to your own...you're entitled to call me evil, wrong and bad if you want to, lol.

Simply put....
Don't shoot the messenger

I just invited Charlene to join this thread...she seems rather upset at the moment...I hope she joins us...I think perhaps she needs to vent...so let's all give her some room if she decides to join us....

(please read the above as **I think Charlene is really ticked off right now!! Stay outta her way!!** LOL)

Cool, I've never had a thread all to myself before!!! =)

C'mon guys, what the heck? Is this the "I'm not talking to you" phase of things? Yeah, I did that to my best friend when I was in 4th grade...it solved a lot of problems too. How's it working for ya?

heathrjoy - I'm still watching. Maybe people have just gotten it out of their systems and are waiting to see what happens at 5 PM tonight (isn't that the deadline)? I'll be on the road then and will look in later to see. Thanks for what you have been saying. I am sort of an outsider on all this as I had never heard of Cubits before all this started.

Edited because I repeated the new thread address in error.

Mea culpa.


This message was edited May 28, 2010 2:32 PM

I'm still here too. Guess we're all waiting to see what happens. I'm going back and forth between sites.
Vickie

ok, thanks for posting

Heathrjoy - I have just two words for you—
THANK YOU.

June

doesn't really say anything.. Until the issue is resolved, words, especially public utterances are designed for public consumption, much as BP's push to buy every PR person they could get their hands on to push the "BP is good" message to americans.

Miguel is in the same position as the other worker bee's at DG, they espouse the company position they are told to put forward.

With IB's history as outlined elsewhere on the web, i would be shocked if anything comes out from under IB's boot, other than a squashed bug. The subscribers who are leaving DG are soooo far down the food chain from what makes IB tick, they are completely irrelevant. even if EVERYONE left, the forward inertia generated by google searches would have this place moving foward again in time.. and time is what IB has plenty of...

I'm sure we'll be following this up on yahoo, and elsewhere in the future..

cross-posted to yahoo



This message was edited May 28, 2010 3:49 PM

different people process things differently...it is arrogant and ego-centric to expect others to process the way you do...it may not be about trying to hurt each other but needing to ventilate or different ways of processing...

There are no quick fixes for some situations and I believe the staff knows that...


If you only see people trying to hurt each other...maybe you're only seeing a reflection of your own mind or displaced frustration over a related issue...because as soon as you interpret something as real for you , it tends to make you very resistant to the fact that other people may experience things differently...there may not be a right and a wrong but just differences...

There is also a clear danger when someone / anyone selects a small sample of something and presents it as if it accurately represents the majority and that is obviously seriously slanted...


beware of mixed messages like - please don't be overly emotional but I need to be to satisfy my current state of mind / frustration...


The staff knows what their job entails and they get payed for it...they know when it is better to lay back and allow the Community to voice and they know that there are situations that are going to occur to cause flare ups and if they weren't equipped to deal with it then they would likely have already moved on to other jobs...if you don't have their type of job you probably wouldn't be as good at it as they are...there are no perfect people in this world...

I hope the thread doesn't get

1) dominated / sabotaged by a few people who want to make all the sharing look like a bad emotional tantrum

2) There has been some very high quality observation , reasoning and logic in addition to other emotional ventilating


Be careful about calling the kettle black...

I too am going back and forth between sites. I am still hoping for some answers to my questions from Miguel. I am aware that Miguel and IB are not the same. Dave and DG turned out not to be the same either. I don't think that there are any similarities in how they are not the same though.

I think Miguel has a lot of influence in the decisions made at IB.

I think that Dave has a right to make a living. I don't think that Cubits has done ANY damage to DG at all. Certainly not the million dollars worth of damage they claim was done. If there was a million dollars loss to DG due to Cubits, why don't I believe that Dave and Trish are a million dollars richer?

Both sites should be up and running and one shouldn't be messing with the other one. Each one is different. Both have some similarities.

I do not know of anyone who has quit paying dues to DG as a result of Cubits. I don't know of any advertisers who have left DG as a result of putting their money into Cubits instead of DG.

Get real people!! Cut this out! Let an honest man earn an honest living and don't be trying to destroy another person's business.

There! I vented!

Charlene

Hey Ron, how ya doin? Hope you're having a great Friday.

I couldn't have said it better myself, so thank you.

charlene,
I think we all agree that Dave has a right to make a living. I hope he can do it by having Cubits up and running and that everyone gets to keep their individual Cubits.

As for Dave & Trish being a million dollars richer...I don't know whether or not they are or aren't...and honestly neither do you. I know you don't like my saying that, but it's the truth. You DON'T know.


This is addressed to everyone at large..
Why is everyone so willing to believe automatically that one side NEVER tells anything but the absolute truth (without so much as a taint to it, or even it being their "side of things") and the other side is ALWAYS a liar??
Do folks realize that the terms "always" and "never" very seldom apply to any situation?
No one "always" or "never" does anything...because we aren't perfect beings...we are unpredictable, WE don't even know what we are going to do half the time.

I know y'all think I'm sticking up for IB here. I know that's how it appears. I know that's why you want to slam me. I really don't blame y'all. That really isn't the case tho. I don't balme you for not believing me tho....

I'm just wondering if y'all have thought about some of these things is all?

"This will be my last post on DG.Do be aware that the "other"thread is nothing more than a shill setup by IB.A couple of the original posters are so obvious it's a joke.
Pass the word via personal email and do contact the advertisers.That is one avenue that works.I will miss you all."



UMM if i am working for IB i would like to be paid thank you. I wrote on the thread right after it was started so if this was aimed at me HOney I been at Daves since it started. WAY WAY before Ib ever come here. you just have to look how long i been a member. So if you refering to me get your facts straight because i dont i repeat i dont work for Ib

What I find funny about the accusation that I work for IB is that I don't work for anyone. Right now I'd LOVE to work from home!! I can't hold a "regular" job right now because of health problems...last night I was stuck on the floor with back spasms. ROTFLOL!! So, yeah, if I were on team IB, you'd better believe my bank account would look a h*(( of a lot better than it does right now. I'd be able to pay for the MRIs that I need. ha

One other question I have for the audience at large...
Why do so many people feel as though they can speak for Dave...or for Dave & Trish? That just is NOT a good idea, especially in a legal matter where you don't know all the details. Now, if you don't think I'm on Dave's side...why would I say that? I'd be telling y'all to go, go, go!!

Well, I for one could care less if Dave and Trish have One or a million dollars. I don't trust Big business in any way shape or form, I have learned this by experience of 70 years on this earth.
Big business gets to be big business by tromping on the backs of others.
Can anyone give me an exception?

Be Real!! There has not been a million dollars generated at Cubits as of yet. They are still in the beginning stages of developing. If any money was lost by IB, it wasn't a result of Cubits. How do I know that?

2 + 2 = 4 I can do figures.

I'm through here, just had to leave you with my last thoughts on the matter.
I see a snake hiding in there! Yup, it's hiding in a flower! Go Figure!

Charlene

Nice insinuation upon your exit there Charlene...nice that you don't have to answer to that