Winter Sowing database

You have no idea. The entire back yard is covered with it and monkey grass. I take my frustrations out on both. It will be at least a ten year process to get it all.

I feel your pain!

Due to recent events I find myself reluctant to even use certain phrases, but here goes.

I don't think freezing temps really are a necessary ingredient for wintersowing. For warm climates some folks never get a freeze, but they still wintersow with success. Temps are just colder then than in summer, and may fluctuate a lot. Another element is light exposure. Beginning on the solstice, days get longer and seeds get more light daily as time passes. I think these are all necessary ingredients.

I don't think "freezing temps" really belongs in the definition as it might eliminate a lot of folks in the southern U.S. as well as other parts of the world. These folks do wintersow with success.

Karen

How about we just go with this term- photoperiod which was referenced a few times before. During the winter months, the photoperiod is reduced.

Definition from online is-

Some plants do need freezing temps or very cold temps to geminate properly. That's one of the reasons there are some plants that just don't do well in the deep south, however, they have the tropicals and we was robbed! The grass always looks greener on the other side. You can force some of these plants by keeping them in a fridge. If you do your homework and a bit a planning you can get good results.
This is going to be so neat. I'm so excited, but I gotta get my act together, thinking I wasn't going to do any polar until January, which is the usual time for me around here. I'm running out of window space already and still arguing with my county about the greenhouse. What a bunch of goobers............sigh

Crap, I hate to even say it, but isn't it sad we have to tip toe around words for fear of The Queen Bee. That said. I love Polar Planting. I also love the photoperiod. During Polar Planting one of the key factors in germination is the photoperiod for many seeds. lol.

I also like the definition of Polar Planting provided by revclaus from the seedsite.com That broadens the term to help us in the warmer climates. OF COURSE WE WILL NO USE IT WORD FOR WORD. JUST GIVES US AN IDEA OF THE MEANING. WE WOULD NEVER STEAL ANYTHING.

I contacted the people at the seedsite.com a few years ago and asked them if I could please take some of what they had online to use word for word and they were most gracious and told me what I wanted was fine. If someone is interested, why not just get dave's permission to contact them and ask if their material can be used for educational purposes over here along with a link to their site. I think if may be as simple as that. Incidentally, I believe their site predates the site of "she who must be obeyed".

Polar Planting -- "she who must be obeyed" -- ROFL.

Couldn't resist. You guys are so funny!

Karen

OMG-Loved it-especially since I am watching Harry Potter right now and they keep talking about "he who must not be named"!!!!

OOOOO that was a very very good one...can I use it for now on??? I don't want to upset anyone if I do so I am asking :o)

Got my permission, but Equi may copywrite it. I use Queen Bee. Wonder if there could be another interpretation of that.

ANYWHO, back to polar planting. So, is it interpreted as the definition on seedsite.com?

I believe it might be best interpreted as what ever the person who is sowing seeds during winter interprets it as ;)

The term "she who must be obeyed" comes from a tv show called Rumpole of the Bailey. That's what Mr. Rumpole called his wife. It was pretty funny actually.

Trudi Bashing

I have known Trudi for 6 years ( never met her ) and have nothing but respect for her. SHE "IS" ONE FISTY LADY.
Had you spent all the time and effort in developing the WS forum ie the FAQs and hundreds of hours answering questions,
developing the Wintersown web site, Becoming a not for profit organization and a active member of AGNIC you might be a little protective also. Just remember if Trudi had not come up with her method there would be no wintersowing per se and you folks would not have this forum to bash her.
Thank You
Ron

Hey Ron,
Apology accepted.

Equi, I think you are right. Whatever you do is the way to go. I like that.

Well Hello
plantcraze_y

Rumpole of the Bailey! OMG that brings back memories. My mom loved the show Mystery. I don't watch it, because my beloved usually has control over the remote, but will have to look and see if it's still on. :D That is a perfect theme for this rainy cold night...

I am a bit confused as usual, which method exactly is it that was invented by Trudi that would preclude our current use of winter sowing? Planting seeds in snow? Planting in milk jugs? I'm sorry, but this "if it were not for her stuff is getting monotonous. No one here wants to steal her personally original ideas or concepts.

I agree that she has spent a lot of time and effort on her database as have all the other contributors to that resource and her dedication to expanding that is to be commended.

BUT, since she is not involved in DG's current project and DG members are determined to create a totally unique and original resource based upon their experiences and knowledge it is not necessary to bash her here or to indeed to consider her at all! So please, put that nonsense away and go ahead and make DG's database the very best ever.

Our real competition is with DG. When you are great already it is a real challenge to continue getting better and better. But from what I have been reading this group is more than up to that challenge!

Ahem, perhaps one should watch one episode of Rumpole of the Bailey before one jumps to conclusions... as I drink from my "she who must be obeyed" mug.

T-shirts, totes, and even teddy bears available here for anyone interested-
http://www.cafepress.com/lightly9

Incidentally, a 501 (c) 3 designation does not necessarily mean there aren't those within the organization profiting from the existence of same.

DG also enjoys the contributions of some FEISTY contributors. mamrudd has professed his love, respect, admiration, and unwavering faith for Trudi at GardenWeb and now at Dave's Garden so I'm thinking this person has covered all the bases. I'm sort of hoping this member isn't here to stir up trouble. Everyone was moving on until there was an interjection from this faithful follower and quite frankly I would hate for this thread to be reduced to an exchange of recipes as has happened to the thread I was sent a link to that I read over at GardenWeb.

As far as the sowing in winter goes, I truly do believe photos of seeds as well as photos of the seedlings added to the PlantFiles will be a phenomenal asset not to mention the comments section where we will all be afforded the opportunity to share our own interpretation of sowing seeds in winter. The "whatever you do is the way to go" approach as you call it is where we benefit the most. People tweeking any process to better meet their own personal needs then sharing same is a superior form of education.

Say, would it be possible for regular DG subscribers to ignore mamrudd whenever he posts inappropriately?

I really like the idea of seeds and seedlings being a part of plant files. I mixed up my tags last winter and had a heck of a time trying to figure out which seedling was which.

Hyblaean, I posted this last night, you may have missed it. It might be helpful?

http://theseedsite.co.uk/db1.html

zanymuse
No one is accusing anyone of stealing her ideas.
Her idea was simply to put seeds in a covered container and place them outside in winter.
A few members from this site came over to the GW WS forum and started making nasty comments.
Link below if your interested
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wtrsow/msg1118301326241.html?107

By the way I started the WS database and maintained it for 3 years

"By the way I started the WS database and maintained it for 3 years"

Then shame on you too for deliberately putting mistakes on it.

I'm still waiting for a public reply from Trudi to justify this inexcusable action.

Joanne

Nope, didn't miss it. Thank you!! I bookmarked it for this year.
I have the best intentions to more careful, but in a house full of dogs, cats and modified apes things just go missing every now and then :D tags as well as plants...always an adventure

LOL Hyblaean! I had forgotten about it myself til someone had mention it. I have several packs of "no named" seeds, but they all look the same, so who knows! Gardening "IS" an adventure, and I love it! :)
Modified Apes?

I think the idea of putting pics of germinating seed up too is an excellent idea. Many times I have had tags blow away, squirells or other critters have a play day with them and even the one time had a bird try and fly of f with my tag becaus e it was one somebody had made and attached as a gift and it was silver with a pretty pink ribbon.

Also when you have alot of open field next to you or country areas, other seeds have ways of blowing in and then it's a case of ok wil the real plant way their leaves and identify themselves.

Then ther e those times you get so excited about sowing that you keep doing seeds and think I'll put the tags in in a minute and then after doing so many pots forget exactly which one was which and come spring your wondering are you a petunia or a pickle leaf.

I would make a suggestion that the seedling pics have at least their first true set of set on them and actually it would almost be better if folks waited til the third and fourth leaves were visable for better identification.

Maybe too, set a limited number of seedling pics, so that there aren't like 20 pics of the same seedlings. It would help with those of us on dial-up too. Four good pics, maybe with different angles would be nice I think. Just a few thoughts.

Grow jo
Do you grow Bananas in zone 3?
Thats the mistake LOL

Uh, that would be the spouse and I :D
I've seen some entries in plant files with the seeds and seedlings, but I think that many people just forget to take a picture of them when they are that young. It really would be cool to get our database rounded out with those images, too. As well as winter and fall shots of trees and perennial plants. They look kinda sad that season, but for identification purposes it's nice to have them.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH Ok! LOL

Ok, since I am new to this, and being in the zone I am in, I am trying to figure out what I can Polar Plant. I have a pack of French Lavender and it states to place in cold frame from Jan to March. Could I do these as Polar Planting in a milk jug? Just trying to figure out what I can and can't do. So many of my seeds are marked this way, if I can Polar Plant them, I would have lots.

Thanks,
Traci

Before I leave for the night.
I think it is great that you all have someone like Dave that is willing to work with you to create your database.
Good luck on getting it together.
Ron

Thanks for that reminder Hyblaean. : ) Now that I got me a camera I need to do just that, especially for when spring first is coming on and tree and shrub seedlings can be safely shipped and then ya don't always know for sure which twig is which.

Hmmmmmm, hearing all this is almost frightening to a Newbie. :( Makes me wonder if it isn't too much trouble? Or is the reward enough satisfaction over the frustration? The only things I have grown from seeds thus far are Holly Hocks and Rose of Sharon, of which I just took the seed heads from the mother plant and just smushed em up and put them in the dirt! The Holly Hocks went mad, but the Rose of Sharon took a LONG time, but finally germinated. Although the Rose of Sharon have since gone to plant heaven as DH's sister had them on her living room floor and her dog and cats got to them first. :( Oh, I forgot that I have used the shaker cans as well, with wonderful results the first year, not so good this time around.

Sowing seeds in winter is sort of what Shake-N-Bake is to chicken. So much easier to sow them by letting Ma Nature take over and you won't have to fiddle with damping off issues or hardening off issues.

Come on now, you can do it. Be the Little Engine That Could for us!

I think I can
I think I can
I think I can
HMMMMMM we will see what I can do! HA HA HA

MistyGardener... It is not easy to sow seeds at any time of the year. It's always a constant battle of you against Mother Nature and all her quirks and twists, but there is nothign more satisfying than the day you go out and find that baby seed you planted breaking forth from the ground into the sunshine.

Keeping that seedling going and growing strong is just as much of a battle. Fightening diseases and pests and a whole new host of other challenges, but eventually comes the day on the horizon when you have success and you can stand back and watch that seed show off its fully glory and you can stand back and say I helped to create that.

That tiny bit of satifaction that you walk away with is what keeps you trying even when you fail. Someday maybe a child, a friend, or a stranger wil stop and admire that plant you grew and you'll be able to stand there and tell them the story about how you grew it and how many times it took you to do it. In that time you wil be sharign not only the story of your plant but helping to show that person that no matter how hard things may get in life, keep trying and one day they may be a plant growing strong in a garden.

Just when I was going to let it go another IDIOT from here had to start it up again.
Her post
* Posted by govols (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 2, 07 at 18:18

Since Trudi has stopped replying to the correspondence she initiated with us, I hope we can set the record straight so we can reach a truce and everyone can move on with no additional misunderstandings hanging over us.

* Posted by trudi_d 7, Long Island (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 29, 07 at 7:50

There has been genuine movement at Dave's to recreate our database at their site.

That is a lie. Any apprehensions Trudi had would have been resolved with a single inquiry, but instead, she chose to start this thread and post a similar accusation at DG. As a side note, the new database is up and running as an integral part of PlantFiles, and bears no resemblance to the database here. We never had any plans to recreate what was here, or use any data from here.

"...this (at Dave's) is turning into another "We hate to hate GW" post. Tsk."

That's rich, considering the context of this thread, which could have easily been titled "Why I love to hate DG"

As with the first quote, this one too, is a lie. In fact, the thread she references would have probably had only positive things to say about Trudi, this forum, and wintersown.org if Trudi hadn't attempted to whip people into a frenzy there, too. The vast majority of posts in the aftermath were to express sadness that long-harbored resentments were apparently still alive and well, and regret that collaboration between the sites wasn't possible.

* Posted by ronald Z5 MI (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 28, 07 at 20:34

Why not give it to WESO and let Trudi copyright it.

There are two good reasons to not do that:

1) Trudi has confirmed her statement: "I have made deliberate mistakes in our database and I will continue to do so."

In good conscience, we can't encourage anyone to entrust their information to a database that has a known risk of deliberate data corruption. (I see Trudi is now attempting to back away from that statement, but it makes it difficult to know what to believe at this point.)

2) WinterSown may be a .org, but Trudi's goal is/was to profit from this material. These are verbatim excerpts from posts Trudi made in late 2001 at DG:

"I wrote the info and posted it on the GW and it has been a very succesful [sic] post for the GW, but especially even more so for me..."

"I have a release for publishing the info, but other than myself, it cannot be used or published (in any form or derivation) by anyone except myself or the GW...

"I hope you all understand that I am in the process of "chapterizing" (for lack of a better word) the essay and hope to have it in a "publishable" form by early Spring."

"..If you put a link to info in the database about what can reseed and what can't do so...but it must be without the term "winter sow" or it's [sic] derivations or any references to it."

Perhaps her plans have changed since then; in fairness to her, it seems she has stopped attempting to claim rights to the term "winter sowing" itself.

In the final analysis, we're happy to provide a tool built "for gardeners, by gardeners", and contributors won't worry that their data will be deliberately sabotaged or used as a basis for an upcoming book.

We sincerely wish this group well with your ongoing database project, and everyone is welcome to check out the new tool as well - feedback is welcomed.


Now Dave is going to have to remove all the info that has been copied from Trudi's site.

mamrudd
"Just when I was going to let it go another IDIOT from here had to start it up again."

That wasn't very nice...

Starlight, that is a wonderful way to look at the seed planting! Thanks!

Read the thread I posted a link to above and tell me who's not being nice.
As long as the people from here interrupt our conversations, I will be here to let you know about it

mamrudd, I've been following both threads, and so far you're the only person who has stooped to name-calling.