Winter Sowing database

Although kaperc is in zone 10 which many don't equate with having a winter per se, she does experience months with reduced photo period (less sun). People have many successes sowing seeds in warmer zones during the "winter" months.

Hey, I just went to my "My Info" and I couldn't find a link to the entries I created. What did I do wrong?

It's at the bottom of the database itself.

Equilibrium, zone 10s can do winter sowing, but direct sowing isn't winter sowing. It may be direct sown during the winter, but that's not the winter sowing method. Or am I confused?

You're right there. Direct sowing (broadcasting) probably wouldn't be classified as winter sowing. It is another form of propagation though.

I will broadcast seed in the winter. Best when the weather report says we're going to get a few inches because then the European starlings can't strip me totally clean.

OT: Starlings were the bane of my existence a few years ago. I had a pair of northern flickers coming to my balcony. The starlings scared them away and then built a nest in the vent opening from the kitchen fan. They had three fledges (is that a word) and drove me insane all summer with their noise. After they were done I put screen over the opening to keep them out, and it seems to have worked. No more starling invasions. My flickers returned, and have done so for years now.

Just a comment-here I WANT my seeds to get the brunt of the cold. This is what Polar Planting (aka Winter sowing) is all about for me. I am trying to see what seeds can take mother natures abuse. If I were to plant so my seeds could survive the cold...there would be no point in doing this by zone. The seeds that I have listed can withstand the cold from the first deadly frost until the warmth of spring.
I want seeds that will take the stress out of planting in my zone 4-ones that will work with the weather, not against me :o)
So you see a seed listed as Polar planted in zone 4, it really is good for all weather in zone 4-not coddled so it can make it. :o)
Mine are Minnesota tough!! LOL

Flip side of the coin, if one sees a plant in zone 5 started toward the end of the season... there is probably a reason for that. Some species simply don't do well in freeze thaw cycling because they might not be meant for zone 5 or colder. I still want the benefits of carefree sowing relying upon the many intangible benefits of Ma Nature but I know darn well I will never grow many of these tender perennials outside year round in favor of moving them in fall back into the protected environment of a greenhouse geared toward maintaining zone 7 - 8 temps. There are many benefits to sowing in winter, reduced risk of damping off comes to mind but so does not having to spend endless hours moving seedlings in and out of the house to harden them in preparation of growing them outside for the warmer months or planting them in the ground for year round enjoyment.

Great point! At first I didn't understand why we needed dates-but there ya go-thats why its great that Dave put the date thingy in :o)
Robbi

This is a GREAT idea! Thanks Dave.

Joanne Ü

Oh yes, it's important to have dates! How else can I know when to check to see if the very first seedling is up, which for me is half the fun of gardening? In my comments I'm saying which seeds I think can be successfully grown by winter-sowing. Just because the seed sprouts under my conditions doesn't mean that's the best way to propagate. As equilibrium said,

I don't know if this is feasible or not, but would it be possible to maybe in the winter sowing forum to have a sticky at the top that would list maybe a section for flowers and one for veggies and one for trees and a list of those plants added to the PF.

I am new at this winter sowing thing and right now I am trying to concentrate mainly on trees and shrubs and veggies. There thousands of plants in the PF. It would be nice for beginner's to have a main list to look at and se e what seeds there is information on upfront.

I am probably not wording this right but, I would like to go to a list and say for example see the veggie title, look under it and see title Peppers and then look down the list at those peppers in the PF and be able to link right away to the information folks have posted for winter sowing peppers. There maybe 60 kinds of peppers out there, but maybe only 5 have even been winter sowed. Would save alot of time just to look at those and learn something right away than have to click on all 60 kinds of peppers to se e if somebody has made a winter sowing report.

Or would it be possible at the top of each garden forum to have a sticky link there with a listing to the winter sown plants added.

Just a thought as people are loading info in, but I have no idea what specific plants they have added. For example too, I have seed from trades and it says like columbine or hollyhock on it. I have no ide a of the particular cultivar. There are think like 192 columbine entries in PF. How many will I have to open and look at before I find one or two with information about winter sowing.

Thanks for another gardening tool! : )

Revclaus, thanks for correcting my misunderstanding of PP. I will go back and read more so I understand the theory better.

Despite being in zone 10b, we do have short freezes here. Last year was disastrous for many gardeners, farmers, and commercial growers, as we had multiple nights of freezing temps and some of us (read me!) weren't prepared. Cover plants? Are you kidding? LOL Lesson learned.

I still think the Method field is necessary, since when Dave includes other propagation types, we will need it. Meanwhile, I will lurk and learn until that happens.

Kathleen

Okay, I figured out how to go from the Polar Planting entry in the database to the corresponding file in Plant Files. You are all doing great, by the way.

Now, how do I go from a particular plant entry in Plant Files to the PP entry in the new database if there is a PP entry? Is this one of the steps not completed yet or do I just not know where to look for the link? Or do we need to start at the PP entry instead of the other way around?

Karen

From the PlantFile entry I see how to add my wintersowing information, but I can't see how to get to see what others have added for the same plant. I know there are entries, but can't figure out how to get to them. Am I missing something, or is the only way to get there through the link in this thread?

Equil -

What makes a late spring sowing the same as winter sowing? I would be disappointed if you said you wintersowed something successfully and you really meant you sowed it in very, very early spring after most all danger of frost. Not the same thing a'tall.

I think we need a FAQ defining wintesowing so we are all on the same page before too many entries are made, but until that happens, I think we need to use "From seed; winter sow in vented containers, coldframe or unheated greenhouse". IN WINTER with plenty of opportunity for freezing temperatures left before the last frost.

Suzy

Suzy

Here in Zone 5b, we can still have bouts of snow in March and April and our last frost date is May 10th, sooo... if I "wintersow" a container during those months would I still not have the benefits of wintersowing as the night and day temperatures continue to fluctuate??

Dave, maybe on the self save or from trade we should specify if the self saved seeds are from the current year.

Suzy, I'm with you. I see some entries without sowing dates or germination dates, and some who say they sowed the seed and left it uncovered. In my view that wouldn't be winter sown, but direct sown. We need an FAQ about what winter sowing is. I thought I was clear about what it is, but maybe I'm just as confused about it as anybody.

Maybe the main way to distinguish winter sowing from direct sowing/broadcasting is the use of a covered container; time of year isn't so important, right? I "winter sowed" using milk jugs in Feb, March and April of this year, and even put out a couple of milk jugs this fall in September. I'm still calling it winter sowing...

Just my two cents....

Joanne

Okay, here's a definition from the US Dept. of Agriculture, National Agricultural Library:

"A propagation method used throughout the winter where temperate climate seeds are sown into protective containers and placed outdoors to foster a naturally timed, high percentage germination of climate tolerant seedlings."

For me the key word here to distinguish winter sowing from direct sowing in winter is "protective containers". I would think that means covered containers.

I've never understood how you can do "winter sowing" in spring, but people seem to do it. Maybe the word "winter" is more fluid than just 12/21 to 3/21?

Bravo revclaus! Good find.

I must admit, I winter sow some annuals by simply starting them late in the season. For the most part, the vast majority of seed I've started using trays outside would be classified as temperate climate seeds.

I like that definition, Revclaus -- better than the one I used (which came from Plant Files)

I like your definition of winter, too. LOL!

Suzy

Hi, I have never polared before, so take this for what it is worth. If this is the finite definition, then the south from 7a would be excluded. Are winters can be mild and harsh. It all depends on Mother Nature. It would definitely have to be more fluid than said dates. Saying that, I have no idea what will polar in our region or the time frame. But, I don't want to be restricted by a certain date in case there is something that will work here. I believe Equi has good info on this, as he is winter sowing in the best way possible for fluctuation temps. Sow it & bring it in when the temp decides to jump into the 70's for a few days in January. It would still effectively be sown during the cooler seasons, just taking into consideration our handicaps and how to work around them. Also, the comment section would be used to make exact points on this which would definitely help folks like me.

Once again, take it for what it is worth. I don't want anyone to see this as a point of contension, just generally discussing differences in zones and weather.

Okay, DH has been watching a football game, which leaves me free to wander the web and find out about winter sowing. Here's a great quote from a British gardener:

"This is the usual way of sowing seeds of perennials, trees, and shrubs, in Europe and elsewhere, and simply involves sowing seeds outside in the autumn, usually in pots, to allow them to experience the ups and downs of winter temperatures to encourage them to germinate in the spring.

It might seem obvious, but only sowing seeds in the autumn or winter can be called 'winter sowing', and you sow seeds at this time for particular reasons. When I see references to 'winter sowing' in spring or summer on US Forums, I conclude that this new discovery by American gardeners is just the rediscovery that seeds don't need artificial light or heat to germinate." http://theseedsite.co.uk/wintersowing.html

That may be what Distantkin's grandma was doing!



This message was edited Dec 1, 2007 10:15 PM

OK, as for my grandma...her idea was this....she put seeds in a container outside (mason jar, old flower pot with a glass covering, coffee can with glass over the top) as soon as it got cold enough that the seeds would not grow until the next season. Her reasons for this were that number one, it kept the wild life (critters) from eating the small plants in the spring and number two she would be able to tell that her seedling was not a weed and not pull it up. She discovered that it made for nice strong plants and kept trying more and more seeds...even wild flowers she found on the side of the road, or wild berries or whatever.

So all the seeds you see entered with no date (grandma kept dates on some, but many were before 2000 and there isn't a date for that-and many she forgot to add a date for germination she just wrote YES) were sown in EARLY winter to mid winter.
These are not grown under artificial lights or in a basement...they are all grown outside in snowbanks....before any warming up happened. They were exactly what polar planting says-planted in polar temps-LOL

Hi distantkin, check out the British website I found! I found another British one too that talks about your grandma's method. But Equilibrium's right, England doesn't have a lot of snow/freezing weather like you do in Minnesota (by the way, I'm from Minnesota too, but I've lived in Denver for a long time). Maybe we should be more liberal on our database than on the GW one where they have strict rules...lol.

I look at it this way-for me in zone 4, or anyone up here-we have such little time to grow that planting in the winter will mean cold-LOL
I hope everyone gets to use this database, no matter where they are. Everyone has winter...but only some are lucky enough to get snow-LOL (I know many think I have lost it now-but I love the stuff!!)
Where bout in MN are you from?
I am from all over-a bit of a nomad...I have lived in many climates even across the ocean...but like to go where it gets cold. Lived in the south-they need some cold down there to kill those nasty big bugs-lived there about 15 years. I just like to visit now. :o)
I will go have a look at that site-sounds interesting :o)
Thanks!!!

"she would be able to tell that her seedling was not a weed and not pull it up." It is a definite bonus to be able to know with relative confidence that you aren't pulling up a desirable plant. Wish I had a dollar for every seedling I pulled up that wasn't a weed because of broadcasting and forgetting where I broadcast something.

This brings something to mind that would be of great interest to me- photos of a species as a seedling. There are very few PlantFile entries that have photos for seed let alone for seedlings. Oh how I would love it everybody started taking photos of their seedlings and added them to the PlantFiles.

I will try just for you-remind me in the spring though :o)

revclaus-WOW!! I LOVE that site!! There is so much information there!! If you all have not looked at it...have a look. One of the best seed sowing sites I have seen!

http://theseedsite.co.uk/seedsowing.html

Equi, ROTFLMBO, Second CW started over wintersowing.

Robbi see what you have done!! Causing another war. lol. As you know how I feel, keep the snow up there please. :^P

WOW this went together quickly! Glad to see Robbi was the first, and that she has many entered already! Way to go Dave & Robbi! :)

Equil....forgot to mention, I lived in Scotland and I have to say-it got pretty darned cold and nasty there. So I believe that many in the UK would think most of our weather is nicer than it is over there-:o)
Seattle is only like the very southern UK, it is used to describe the rain...not the cold....I lived on the coast about in the middle of the UK-and the cold there was very comparable with what it is here in MN-but much worse as the wind cut right through you....we didn't get the snow like here but that was only because we were near the Irish sea.

They do know what winter sowing is and they plant out in the fall, it gets snowed on and frozen in the winter (at least in the northern UK) and blooms in the Spring.

I know what you mean about the unidentifiable seedlings vs. weeds dilemma. I have a whole section of a flower bed filled with some kind of plants that look great but I'm not sure what they are. I'm waiting to see if they bloom next year. I keep thinking I must have scattered some kind of seeds there b/c they are only in that one area. But I have no recollection of planting any there. I really hope they're not weeds b/c they have a tap root. If they are I may never get them all out.

You bring up a valid point because not all of Great Britain is mild and Scotland is a great example but it still cracks me up when I've been over there in England and all they talk about is the weather which seems to be about the same every time I've been there no matter what time of year it is.

There was something or other that I broadcast a few years ago that I forgot about. All of the sudden there are like hundreds of these THINGS coming up all along the side of my driveway on both sides. I am convinced it is some sort of an evil weed so I start hand pulling them all. My girlfriend comes over to visit and gasps as she asks me why I am pulling out all of the abc or xyz (I don't remember what I had planted), I take a look in my hand and about have a heart attack. I spent a good amount of time trying to get them all back in the ground but for the most part they were pretty fried out because I had been tossing them in a pile on the hot black asphalt driveway as I pulled them. Stupid is as stupid does! My husband stood there and laughed. So yes, I will remind you next spring to post photos. Actually, I will be begging everyone to take photos of their seedlings to add to the PlantFiles and it's something I should have been doing too. Seriously, all of us could use seedling photos because some mistakes are not fun enough to want to repeat a second time.

I don't know if anyone would be interested in this, but I found it some time back when I was trying to identify a seed, and found it useful and interesting.

http://theseedsite.co.uk/db1.html

My yard is brand new to me as well as gardening. We didn't move in until after the blooming season. After discover spider lilies and other unknown bulbs, I am scared to death to pull a weed. I am either going to have a beautiful yard or lots of work cut out for me.


bulbs in the back. It is a fun yard.

New yards are fun because you get many pleasant surprised but egads, I think I see English Ivy in your photograph. I feel for you if that's what you have there. Took me years to get rid of that plant and it choked out too many desirable plants to count.