Damping off - Cucumbers

Having troubles getting good growth with these guys. My (directly sown) seeds germinated, but didn't surface (gooey cotyledons).
Then I planted my germinated peat plugs, gone.
I bought commercial seedlings and they looked happy until teetering over just yesterday.
Pretty sure it is my soil, but not sure where to start. Everything else in the patch is looking stable.

Since I will be starting fresh (yet again) can someone help me find a nice variety for fresh eating that I might be able to make a few jars of pickles with? ..that is AFTER I fix my soil issue.

Thanks much for any advice

This message was edited May 9, 2007 7:32 PM

I'm having some of the same issues. I'm determined to learn how to grow seedlings indoors from seed to hardening off to transplanting and beyond. I either get problems with dampening off which I attribute to my inability to wait long enough to water. I'm always afraid I'm not watering my plants soon enough so I think..just a little more.

If I don't manage to drown them, I will sometimes end up with a little bit of mold and the seedlings will grow slowly or die.

Other times I end up with seedlings that get really tall too fast and fall over because of it. What a pain!

I figure it's just practice and experimenting with different lighting, watering schedules and grow mediums.

Suzi

Wow, I thought this website would be busier than this. I don't seem to be getting answers to my posts and even though I didn't start this one I could sure use some tips from veteren gardeners :)

Suzi

I have to agree with suzimcmullen. where do we find the answers that we are seeking? As for my soil, I either use the little peat pellits that come with their own tray or I use regular potting soil and cut up egg cartens. I wait until the peat turns light brown or the egg cups look dry befor I water again with a mirical grow type food and epsom salt mixture. follow the directions. As for hardening off I put them in the shade first for several days, bringing them in at night. While in the shade the sun will move so they will get some sun. As the days go by, I expose them to more sun, eventually to full sun, about 2 weeks, I plant them in the garden, which has been prepared with epsom salts as directed on package. I plant the cups along with the plants as to not disturb any thing. I also pack the egg cups as close together as possible so they stand up better. That being said, I do have some trouble with that. I have not found it to be a big problem if the seeds can get the light and the cup is damp. Sorry for any miss spelled words. I never said I was any good at the craft of spelling.

I need to start waiting longer to water. I get so ansy about it and sure they will droop. I think it's because my outdoor gardens have always been so hot and the plants have drooped no matter how much it seemed I watered.

I have some broccoli, cauliflower and Kohlrabi in a hydroponic system that is an 8 bucket system. I have a couple plants in each system. The drip ring seems to splatter the water up onto the leaves of the seedlings. Maybe I didn't wait long enough to put them into the system? Anyway, the seedlings haven't liked that and they stopped growing.

I took out the worst looking seedlings and put in better, slightly bigger plants. I've also stopped the pump several times per day so the leaves on the plants have time to dry off. That's now really how the system is designed. But I know that some hydroponic units do work on timers. I hope I'm on the right track. If not, I might have to change the grow medium, clean out the system and start over with a totally different crop or at least just change the grow medium and start over with new seedlings of the same type. My family eats a large amount of veggies. I really want to learn how to have them ready year round and not only in the summer. But even more, these are the types of plants I've never been able to grow in the midwest. Our spring gets too hot too fast and they bolt. I can eat the leaves as greens which I didn't know in the past. I'd just throw them out if they bolted.

I sure wish more people here are into hydroponics :)

Suzi

Since the original question concerned cucumbers, which I direct plant, I avoided the question. In fact I don't attempt to start any plant plant that does better direct sown. Tha includes all the cucurbits. They can be started, but have to be tranplanted almost as soon as they emerge. Damping off of seedlings in general, I can address. It is a fungus. So ther are fungicides that work in garden planting. For seedlings (tranplants) and/or container plants, a sterile soil mix is the best prevention. A soiless growing medium like Pro-Mix is best, but people have sterilized soil in ovens. http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1167.html http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/greenhs/htms/dampofgh.htm http://www.ehow.com/how_9361_prevent-damping-seedlings.html http://www.yougrowgirl.com/grow/seed_starting2.php

I do start tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants inside. Nothing special just trays of growing medium in a window sill (sunny location). plant the seed, wet the medium, add water from the bottom when the medium shows dry. Never have any problems, Some folks make rocket science out of starting transplants, benign neglect usually works better.

There is a hydroponics forum http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/hydropon/all/

I was going to say that last year I direct sowed my cucumbers and they did great...I can see what farmerdill means about having to transplant as soon as they sprout. I have broccoli and cabbage, and never grown them before. They bolt easy? Darn it. Oh, and as far as not getting as many answers as you were looking for, I've noticed responses have been slower now that growing season is upon us....I think most people are out in their gardens playing. But, you can generally get pretty good info from here, and farmerdill has helped me out a lot, so, just wait it out and you'll probably get the answers you're looking for.

Broccoli and cabbage do not bolt easily. In fact, since it is the seed heads of broccoli that you eat, you want it to "bolt". It is very easy to grow, I start in a cold frame about 8-10 weeks before last average frost day, and transplant about a month before last average frost date. If stressed it will "button" forms Little tiny seed heads before the plant sizes up. This is usually caused by keeping the plant in a tiny cup too long. I have seen them button in retail store displays. Never had a problem with cold frame plants. Cabbage is a biennial and rarely goes to seed the first year. Takes a major interruption of its growth cycle.

Great...I have my broccoli in little cups :( They're maybe the size of yours...maybe a little smaller. Not to mention I haven't gotten it planted before my last frost date. :( :( will it still be ok? Oh, and if they "button" can you still eat 'em? :)

Of course, but it is a small morsel, more like broccoli raab. Current status of mine

Awesome garden! Are those beans strung up by the posts? Is that some kind of mulch around the broccoli? Will you come up here and plant my garden for me? :)

Kristie

Those are pole snap beans. Have not strung them up yet. As soon as they start to run, I will drop twine from the wire, and then mulch with leaves. This is my kitchen garden. Major crops, I don't have the energy to collect mulch, so it has to settle for dust mulch (cultivation) It takes about 25 pickup loads to mulch the kitchen garden. The outside row of posts are for pole butterbeans. The brassicas will be finished, by the time the beans are in production, so this arrangement allows me a little more efficient use of limited space.

All of my cucumbers died April 7th because they were out in my garden when it hit 25 degrees. So that week I planted a bunch more. I only plant Cucumbers in those Peat pellets like you can buy at the big box stores. I do this because they grow fast in those and I can transplant the whole thing right into the garden. Within 2-3 weeks I set them into the garden. So I think the key maybe on cukes is don't keep them too long. Germinate them and transplant them or just direct sow them.

Pic Below is Straight 8 Cukes direct sown.

Ok...so what's a brassica, farmerdill?

jkehl....is that a tiered garden? Is it just part of your garden, or is it all tiered?

Those pictured are broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower. The genus brassica also includes kohlrabi, turnip, rutabaga, radish, brussels sprouts, kale, mustard etc, all of which I grow at some point in the year. One of the radish cultivars in the far right row.

Ooooohhh...I gotcha. How big is your garden, farmerdill?

My picture is a built-in planter that was part of the house that burned down before I bought the property. The house that burned down was believe or not built of stone but the frame was wood so it was vunerable. Most of it is gone now but I kept the front porch with it's planter and as much of the 'water-fall garden' the previous owner had built because it's just so neat.

Most of my garden is raised beds or raised rows that sit north of where that picture was taken.

That's interesting about the broccoli. The first time I tried to grow it in the midwest they became just huge really fast. I didn't have anyone to help me in the garden so I was lucky to get down there to water once a week. Then I didn't have time to linger. They were planted in really bad clay soil. So one day I was down there and they were flowering all over the place. I completely missed the heads on those things. It just never looked like anything I recognized as broccoli. We tried to eat some of it and it tasted terrible! I don't remember the flavor anymore. But I seem to remember it tasting like strong soap. The rabbits we had wouldn't even eat them. Someone told me that it was too hot here for them and they had bolted. I grew them in California just fine in the spring. But then I didn't even try to grow it when it was late summer because it gets so hot I figured it would happen again.

Suzi

I do about two acres usually, corn, Irish potatoes, sweet potatoes, southern peas, Cushaw pumpkins,watermelons and cantaloupes go in the larger plot. A second smaller plot holds buh snap beans and bush butterbeans and okra. Don't have irrigation on those plots so am totally dependent on rain. The Kitchen garden has the small stuff, that I can water in a pinch. Really dry here this year, with really tight water hours so it does pinch.

Suzi, broccoli has a short harvest window. You need to cut the heads before any blooms open. It does not like heat and you have to keep the cabbage worms and harlequin beetles off it. I do two plantings, one as noted in the early spring and a second in the fall.

jkehl, I love your waterfall garden. I am going to try the raised bed/row things this year...hopefully it works.

Farmerdill, wow...that's a lot! I have a little 20 x12 foot garden.....oh, and a 12 foot circle that will hopefully one day be an herb garden.

Thanks for sharing guys!

How would it be to buy a shade cloth and use some stakes to put it over the broccoli? Would that keep the heat down just enough to lengthen the growing time in the spring and start earlier in the fall?

Suzi

That's a good idea...but I wonder if it would inhibit growth since most veggies need full sun to grow.....I don't know...if it would work, there may be two of us doing that!

Kristie

Suzi; Don't know, never tried it. Sounds too much like work for me. I get more than enough broccoli the traditional way. The only time I do not have broccoli is July, August September ( when I have plenty of other stuff to worry with) and February, March and April. (Thats when the freezer proves its worth)

Green Comet in January.
Edited to say, Broccoli will produce until day temps reach 100 degrees on consecutive days. Does it really get that hot in Illinois. I know it will grow all summer in New York state.

This message was edited May 9, 2007 12:36 PM

Does broccoli only produce one stalk? I thought I'd read you can keep harvesting broccoli from the same plant....but now I can't remember. I only have 6 broccoli plants, I figured that'd be enough for me to start out with. I've never grown it before, so I thought I'd start with a few.
It can get that hot in Illinois every now and again....we've definately had our share of 100 degree consecutive days, although its probably not nearly as often as you guys down south.

Kristie

I edited the original post since I had been unclear. You guys have been busy, I got to take a few notes for later!

After finding maggots in my peas, I mixed wood-ash into the soil and watered it down well with weak chamomile tea added to one of Jerry Bakers concoctions.
So far, so good. My peas are still alive and my newest seedlings are starting to surface.

Thanks FarmerDill for all the great info/pics!

Kristie, Most broccoli cultivars send out sides shoots after you cut the main head. Some commercial cultivars do not. On the other hand the sprouting broccolis are mostly side shoots with a very small central head. I can cut side shoots 3-4 times on most of the cultivars that I grow.

This illustrates side shoots on Coronado Crown.

Thanks farmerdill, your pics really help. I'm just imagining you reading posts, jogging out to your garden, snapping a pic, and running back to your computer to show us. Are you taking these as needed, or are these ones you already had? If you are running out to your garden to take these pics, thanks!! I love them!

Kristie

A little of both, If I don't have a pic in the files, then I take one the next time I get a chance. Getting long in the tooth so I take several "tea" breaks a day.

lol I'm not so long in the tooth, and I still take plenty of "tea breaks" too! Waltham 29 is the kind of broccoli I have this year. Have you ever grown it? If so, is it good?

Kristie

Morsaille, what do you mean by teetering over? They just fell over, or are they dying? Unfortunately, I'm new to this, so I really don't know what could be wrong with your soil. I had cucumbers last year and they took off and almost took over the entire town. I can't remember what kind they were though. This year I am going to plant Straight Eights. Hopefully they do ok. What else do you have planted in your garden? I know they say that some things shouldn't be planted next to each other....maybe they're not by a "friendly" neighbor? Supposedly they don't do well with aromatic herbs and potatoes.

Farmerdill, I was wondering how often I could fertilize my seedlings...someone told me every two weeks, but they seem to not be growing much now....I fertilized last week and was going to wait until next week. They're still in their little dixie cups, but I also purchased some plants(tomatoes) in the little 3 cell packs that are probably about as big as the dixie cups and the tomato plants are much bigger than mine. Is fertilizing every week bad? I want to make sure they get big enough...I'm afraid everything will be too late. Oh, yeah, after I fertilized the first time, I noticed a huge difference, but now they're just not doing much of anything.....

Kristie, Waltham 29 is close to the bottom of the list of broccoli cultivars for me. It can be decent under favorable conditions. Best Op that I have tried is Green Goliath. Have also grown De Cicco, Green Sprouting Calabrese,and Purple Sprouting. I much prefer regular broccoli however. Favorites to date, Galleon, SuperDome, Southern Comet.

Most of the commercial plants are green house grown, warm, lots of light, and pushed with MiracleGro. It makes a pretty plant that sells, but does not necessarily perform any better than a tougher window sill grown plant. Many planting mixes have slow release fertizers incorporated, I f they don't, a half strenght MiracleGro ( or equivalent) solution about twice should do it. Plants should be ready to go in six weeks.

As for cukes in the ground. If they wilt and keel over overnight, look for the striped cucumber beetle, It is a sucking insect that does a number on emerging cucurbits. If the stem has the appearance of rot, you have a fungus. Cukes are also very susceptible to cold damage, particularly in wet organic soils. I don't know Pacific Northwest conditions, but here is what I have to contend with. http://ipm.ncsu.edu/vegetables/Pamphlets/cucumber/cucumber.html

Dang it...that figures. I guess next year I will have good broccoli. I guess its best that I have a bad one to practice with though. What's so bad about the Waltham 29? Is it taste or growing problems?

When you say six weeks, do you mean six weeks from germination or planting? Oh, and you said fertilize twice, you just mean they should be fertilized twice before planting or twice a week? Do you fertilize after you've planted in the ground? I've never fertilized before and most things have done pretty well.....but, always looking to improve.

Kristie

I don't say Waltham is bad, just not as productive or dependable as many others. Six weeks from emergence. If the planting mix does not contain a slow release fertilizer, than fertilize with a soluble quick release type at two weeks and 4 weeks. If you use manures, compost, or commercial fertilizer, incorporate into the soil at least a week, preferably two weeks before transplanting. Make sure its to the side of the plant not concentrated in the planting hole. If you are field planting, and you have light sandy soil, a second sidedressing for heavy feeders like brassicas when they are about half size is beneficial. Heavy soils like clay hold nutrients so that is usually not necessary.

Less productive and dependable might be bad for a first time grower too...Oh well, I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the fertilizing advice...I almost said the heck with it and fed them again...I'll hold off, just cause you said so. You seem to know what you're talking about... :)

Farmerdill,

You getting any rain from that tropical storm? I can't believe how dry it has been here. All the storms from Texas/Alabama seem to dry up by the time they reach us.

Jeff

Jeff, I think I counted three drops. I have about forgotten what rain feels like.

Sorry to butt in, I just stopped in to tell you folks how awful I just feel about Your rain situation, or lack of......You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

kls, the base of the stem weakens, gets translucent and soggy, and has a whitish scale on the stem that looks almost like slug damage (but I don't think so). Then they fall over with the healthy leaves resting against the ground. Aargh - a slow, tedious death. I have cucumbers slated to share space with my squashes since they all need so much space, I just gave them hills against the back edge of the garden space. My herbs are about 20 feet away. The closest companions are the lettuces at 4 feet away.

*fingers crossed* They might survive this time...

Thanks FarmerDill for the NC link; I'll get to researching fungicides in my area, pesticides too. I was hoping to keep it clean, but I guess I'd rather have veggies.

AAAHHHHHH!!!!! Rabits ATE my cabbage and broccoli!!!! I only have two broccoli left!!! I had tomato plants and green peppers out there too, and they only ate my broccoli and cabbage!!!!!!! Oh, the little #@#%% ate a nasturtium and some sweet peas too...I'm assuming they were rabbits...whats the likelyhood the little stubs will grow?

Kristie