Messenger....Before ane After

I have a Persicaria Red Dragon that was tiny last year and still small earlier this spring - now it is huge! About 5 times the size it was in April. All it got was a bit of pelleted Miracle Grow scratched in surrounding soil in early April. Does not prove a thing.

Growing conditions can change - we had a very mild winter so many plants are now taking off, regardless of our products. Perineals sleep, creep and leap with the three year rule. It is hard to pinpoint a plant's success.

I did order a lot of the Messenger on the co-op so I hope I've bet on the right one! BUT I really have to see a side-by-side, under controlled conditions so that's why I am doing this experiment.

Sterling

Katy, the garden is looking very good this year, I don't think you're growing as much TP as the first picture though.
;)

Oh blonde moment here! I wondered what that was! LOL

Very nice Katy, it's looking great!

Sterling, I'm excited to see your pics of your experiment! I'll be watching for them.

Oh sugerweed, not TP! LOL It's wool fleece I hang out every year for birds nests. They love it. I watched a hummingbird hovering in front of one clump and patiently pulling off pieces off bit by bit. Most of the other birds just sit on the branch to collect it.

KatyMac, impressive pics on the roses. Has your hummer population increased as a result of the fleece?

Sterling, you must be an engineer or scientist. Sound so much like my hubby.

Tomorrow I'll be applying round 3 of messenger. We've had some light rains, which are most welcome, but gets in the way of spraying. Also, using Mighty Plant as a root drench for my AVs, those babies are exploding! have never looked so good.

I thought about it and decided this was pertinent infor for all to read, regarding applying Messenger AFTER it rains:

vossner
May 29, 2006
12:59 PM

howdy Robin
1. read the endorsement by the mum society. congrats!
2. I read that if you applied messenger and it rained afterwards, product would be effective as long as it had beed applied 30 min BEFORE rain started.

How about AFTER it rains? how long before I can apply messenger?

thanks for your help.


thripmaster
May 30, 2006
9:14 AM
Hi Voss: Thanks for the congrats. Messenger does seem to work very well on Mums.
About applying Messenger after a rain, a little water on the leaves is good because it helps with spreading, too much water and you loose product because it is dripping off. The same thing applies to a heavy dew. I like to apply after a rain because I think the plants are REAL happy and actively growing after a nice rain which helps them respond better to Messenger. I also like to apply after a rain because it is nice and cool.

What's rain?

There have been terrible downpours all around us and we have not had a drop since the 5th of May. The temps have been in the high 80's/low 90's with a steady wind to dry everything out. I don't even want to think about the water bill this month.

Robin, I am sort of afraid to spray with anything because, even with irrigation, the plants are already so stressed. What do you think; would Messenger help the plants deal with this situation?

I'm with you....."What Rain?". It hasn't significantly rained here for weeks! My garden is already looking like summer and it is hardly spring! And luckily I had a couple of kids graduate from college this month so I can afford the water bill!

Now that I have chimed in my weather complaints....to answer your question. Yes, Messenger does help plants deal with stress, including water stress. BUT...that works best if you are able to apply the Messenger prior to the plant really being in a difficult situration. The reason is that you are depending on the plant to do the work to mount this defense, if the plant is already in bad shape it can't do that work. That is why the use instructions suggest that Messenger be applied when the plant is actively growing. Bottom line...if you plants are wilted and absolutely suffering, don't waste your Messenger at that time because the plant won't be able to respond to it properly. If you are irrigating and the plants are growing, but a bit unhappy, I think Messenger would help your garden deal with the stress it is in.

I will chime in here and say I find it's times like this that I am glad I have Watersorb polymer crystals int the root area of my planting holes.
I have avoided spraying my Crepe Myrtles with Mess, but today I am going to Mess them and some other things very well. My brugs are all putting on buds.
I will take pictures.
;)

Yep, me three....What's rain?????

I keep hearing all the talk about rain, rain, rain, and I have to water, water, water....LOL

sugarweed, why have you avoided the Crepe Myrtles? just curious, I used it on mine, and they look great.

Also, mums, they are starting to bloom. I normally trim them back until late July, but I really hate to cut off flowers. So Iguess I will have blooming mums in June.

Susan
=^..^=

All you Messenger fans might want to check out my posts in Morning Glories and see what Messenger did to my Blue Picotee!

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/606218/

X

9kitty, I used messenger on 3 young crepe myrtle trees and the poor things are bending over from so many blooms.
My mums' time to shine is in the fall, but I do get a secondary flush in the spring. This year, the spring flush is abundant. I hope they're done by July 1st as I do plan to whack them to 6" from the ground. There was a discussion on this last year about pruning for bushier plants, I did it and was pleased with results last fall. So, I will do it again this July.

But I digress, Xeramtheum, your MG looks sad. I hope Thrip will chime in with some comments about this.

Those Morning Glories looked quite odd....but pretty in a strange sort of way. It would be unusual for Messenger to cause such a reaction. But I have seen research done on dahlias demonstrating that Messenger causes an intensification of colors...so I guess I have seen instances of slight color changes, I have also often seen Messenger greatly enhancing bloom, but not changing bloom to a whole different type of flower. That is quite odd. On the thread that Xeramtheum gave the link for, one person expressed some concern about Messenger changing genetics. Messenger does not change the genetics of a plant, but it does activate genes that are already there that may not be active. Such as the gene that tells the plant to reproduce. In nature, that gene (or more accurately genes) is always there in the plant but remains sort of "dormant" until the proper time. Messenger may turn that gene on. So that means that if Messenger caused such a reaction the gene for that type of flower was already in the plant and Messenger activated it. That would be unusual, but I do find it interesting. If anyone else sees such a thing I would love to know about it. If it happens very often and it really does seem that Messenger is somehow changing the flower type or shape, then I would gladly put a note about it on our website. Some people would probably hate it and others would find it intreging and cool. I feel sure it is not any kind of phytotoxic effect though. I wonder if the flower makes seeds and if the babies would make flowers like that. Hmmm.

I wondered if possibly the sprayer used had been previously used for hericides?
My results have never been in that direction.
;)

I can not say good enough comments about Messenger or MP..I had great results with both..A few of my plants I was gonna pitch and decided to give them a spray now they are healthy plants growing in my gardens...That is thanks to these wonderful products..

I agree with that Demstratt!!

I am amazed at my garden this year.

Susan
=^..^=

I am very protective of my plants and the $$s spent on them. If that picture was the result I ever got, I wouldn't put it on every one of my garden babies.
Sidney

Here's a bed April 24th, http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2217075 and here it is this week after Messenger http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2358171
Thats more than normal 2 week growth.
Sidney

wow totally excellent and impressive. BTW I love the coleous to the right, with the yellow center. Keep messengering away. My husband is laughing at me 'cause I'm checking the calendar every so many days to see when it's time to messenger.

The one on the right is Dipt in Wine.
;)

Wow that is impressive. I have just started using messenger, and have not recorded the changes. I intend to keep a better record, as that is truly amazing.

I can't say that it's just the messenger that did this.... but, since I didn't use any other products, I can't believe it's a freak co incidence either.....

I have a beautiful cherry tree, Montmorency, sour cherries that taste just like the tree we had when I was growing up.... for the last several years I've thrown away more than I've been able to use because they had worms in them.

I asked in the fruit tree forum what I could do, and got a couple of responses to use things I wasn't real sure I wanted on something I was going to feed to my family.... so, me, being me, when I sprayed daylilies and roses, I also sprayed my cherry tree, twice... once when it was in bloom, and once when the flowers were gone and the cherries were starting to form..... I still have a few worms... but the difference is amazing. Not sure if the messenger did this, but I can't imagine that it didn't have a part in it.

Melissa, I have been spraying a young red maple and two var. Meyer lemon trees and I see quite a difference. Also sprayed by fig tree, that thing is FULL of figs. Hope the birds leave me some.

I also sprayed some new crepe myrtles and the poor things were bending over from so many flower clusters. These trees are now 3 yrs old and in the past 2 years they never bloomed as profusely.

Melissa...funny you should mention worm/insect suppression with Messenger. Without being overly scientific, plants do have natural defenses against insects. When a plant is damaged by a bug, the jasmonic acid pathway of a plant is activated and the plant releases methyl jasmonate and other volitile compounds. Seems that there is something about these volitiles that sends out the call to beneficial insects so they are attracted and come and take care of the offending pest. Plants may also be induced to produce their own defense compounds that deter insects such as nicotine, tannins, and phenolics. Researchers with USDA and UC Riverside have both documented that Messenger also causes this phenomenon and may suppress thrip. We don't put insect suppression on the label because it is quite variable. Occasionally we have people mention it like you did, but more often I guess the call for beneficials must not be adequate because the insect pests still manage to live and do their damage! That is cool that you noticed it though. You are very observant.

Robin, It was hard NOT to notice as I'm seeding cherries... I'm not kidding, the last several years I've been lucky to get enough from a 2 gallon bucket to make ONE PIE... I've got enough frozen already to make 7 or 8 pies, and probably that much more on the tree to pick tomorrow. :-)

I'm convinced enough that I ordered the 25 gallon size in the newest co op. :-)

Good information Voss. Interesting to get comments from those who love messenger.

The Royal Horticultural Society uses Messenger on their gardens, and that's a pretty good reccommendation for me!

We have been discussing what eats our Ornamental Sweet Potato Vine til it resembles Swiss Cheese over in the Fl forum.
I am wondering if Messenger would help there? Whatcha think Robin?
;)

doubt it. the culprit are slugs. In fact, the messenger may make your plant more delish to the culprits. They seem to be worse right after rains. There are lots of products to combat slugs, but unless you are religious about applying every couple of weeks, it is a losing battle, IMO.

So, I learned to love the swiss cheese look on my ipomeas.

Well, I have so many they haven't been able to eat all of mine.
However some were really depressed so I suggested the Bayer Rose Systemic.
;)

give them time. those are hungry (and fast) critters, lol. There are many good products, both home made recipes and stuff at HD/Lowes, and they all work provided you apply w/ some frequency. The best one, IMO, is Sluggo, kinda pricey, but still, you have to apply every so often.

Never heard of the Bayer Rose systemic used for slug control.

Well, Molly Mc said she found weevils eating hers last year so that was our target at that time.

I also have a 100+ Hostas that I would have thought slugs would have feasted on.
I have slug and snail grub that I'll put out and see if it helps the areas where they really go to town.. Also do you find dead slugs or just see less damage?
;)

I stopped treating for slugs, so I don't even look anymore. When I did apply the granules, they just seemed to disappear, but I wasn't looking really hard for dead slugs. I just saw less damage.

sounds like you have a regular regimen, which I think is the secret to success. I didn't, so I lost this battle.

I use Sluggo and never see dead slugs -- they go off and die somewhere else, I guess. lol As long as I use it about three times in the growing season, damage is controlled.

OK, here's May 12, before Messenger. Bad picture, I know, but it's difficult standing in the dark and shooting into the sunlight coming through the window. See the Streptocarpus just below the ferns?

I 'messengered' on May 25. Here's the same plant today, June 25. I took it outside so you could see it better and also did a tad of 'poster edges' in PhotoShop because my camera doesn't like the blue/green combo and the edges of the flowers were all blurry. I've never had luck keeping flowers on this plant. Just look.

That is just yummy!
;)

Impressive!

Having been with some PNW Roundup folks on Saturday who were talking about Messenger, I jumped at the chance to read more about it when I saw this forum. I am eager to try it - especially on my roses. And how about Hollyhocks? Will it help with all their nasty little problems? At this point, I have six foot tall plants with very little foliage, but lots of buds. I so love Hollyhock that I would sure love to find a way to improve them.

Such wonderful photos here - and explanations. Thanks!!

Carole

Carole, your Holly Hocks are better off than lots of leaves and no buds!! Thats what mine did.
Sidney

Sidney, you are so right - and I am grateful that there will be flowers, but I sure need to do a better job of planting medium sized plants in FRONT of the hollyhocks so they don't look so weird.

Carole