Plant Propagation part XXXVIII

>> Corey, how can you possibly keep 128 plug cells watered enough and enough food to keep them going? How long do you leave them in that before you repot?

They vary a lot by species and stage of growth and health of root-ball. If you over-water a tray even a little, the roots never penetrate all of the soil or develop well. The seedling stays spindly and pathetic in the tray, or grows very slowly ... and thus it never does need much water indoors.

But if I occasionally manage to under-water or get it about right, the roots and seedling thrive and get bigger in a few weeks, even indoors, and then I have to water daily, pot them up, or move them outside.

Until recently, we had rain or drizzle and clouds several days per week. So even the trays I had put out didn't dry TOO fast. And while nursing seedlings through the cold spring, many were potted up to 3" pots (or were in 72-cell trays to start with).

But now some seedlings in the 128-cell tray grew big fast enough, and the weather was warm enough, for me to move them in their 128-cell tray right into hardening-off and planting.

Just this last weekend, I learned what happens with well-rooted Salvia seedlings that grew well in the tray, then were hardened off still in their small 128-cell plugs in sunny dry weather.

The outdoor sun and breezes make them dry out fast! Watering them daily (at least) seems needed.

And soluble plant food like Miracle-Gro seems to tkae care of that, once I got over being too afraid of over-fertilization. Half strength seems enough for small seedlings.

Corey

>> That's what the squirrels do JB. One bite out of each ripe tomato, then on to the next one. Must be a rodent thing.

The darn Tree Rats always climbed the ivy at school and snuck into dorm rooms. They would take ONE BITE out of each slice of bread in a loaf, and leave pellets of dung behind.

I learned to put my books down in the hall, slip the key into the lock very quietly, than THROW the door open and RUN into my room yelling and waving my arms at the squirrels that were often in there eating my food.

One squirrel took one look at this manaic rushing into the room, and LEAPED straight out the open window while grabbing for the ivy. He was on an upward trajectory near the center of the window when last seen.

He must have caught the ivy at some point, because there was no squirrelo pancake on the sidewalk, five floors down, when I looked. maybe he hadsome flying sqquirrel ancestry.

Eventually I wired pieces of hardware cloth into my window, around the fan, tightly enough to keep the tree rats out.

Corey

Now you have me wondering Corey. Maybe it is a squirrel. I have both. I really don't care, they need to eat too. It is too freaken hot to give a hoot.

I had to go into town today and ship some plants and I am praying they make it without dieing on the way. 92 deg. in the shade as I type this.

Must get back to work. Have a good day. Did you all happen to see the notice from Dave saying he finally settled his differences with this new DG administration. So, all is well I assume and now we can all relax and enjoy both sites. I must say, they are so different I can not imagine what the problem was. Something for everyone for sure.

Later, JB

Well I was really hauling working on the flower bed. It was not the sun. It was African Sumac roots. I had myself totally covered in great soil, down on my knees digging with my wonderful Hoi knife. ( I live Japanese gardening tools. )

I had two roots remaining to dig up out further from the bed and toward the tree when the clouds went away and the sun came out. Right at 11am.

Well after the sun was out I lasted about 4 minutes.

I had to go in the back door near the pool. I would have jumped into the pool but it would have gotten the pool really dirty. Dumped my clothes and took a quick shower.

Now the clouds are back so I think I will go out and take care of the last two roots.

This is a photo before I started digging.

I

This is a photo I took after my shower. The aluminum cans were in a bottom of a planter.

One of my prior brain storms that really did not work. I also tried packing popcorn. That was a total disaster.

jberger do you have the link for what dave was saying, I can't find it.

thanks

Jan

I didn't find it during a very quick glance at cubits.

Corey

ya know, the Squirrels do the same thing to my pears...one bite, and discard. I mean...I don't mind sharing, but really...one bite!

I have that going on with zucchini and tomatoes. The squirrels take one bite and throw them, bunch of little hairy-tailed rat *&^%s. It almost makes me let the dogs kill them, and Messy Tessie Punkinhead is motivated.

Listening to a squirrel chattering in a tree re-inforces the idea that they are snarky Wise Guys who like making trouble.

Have you ever tried to keep them out of a bird feeder? Or an attic?
Clearly they are more intelligent than human beings (or me, at least).

I don't wish them ill, but DO wish they would stay in forests and OUT of cities and gardens.

Must our sympathy extend even to parasites? How about rats?

Corey

I like pet rats, but not big nasty outdoor rats that tip my birdseed and scare the everloving crap out of me in the garage if they sleep in one of my large flower pots. My sympathy extends to animals that don't destroy things for no reason, spread disease, and miscellaneously cheese me off.

I wouldn't mind the destruction by the squirrels if they would just eat the whole thing, not taste testing all the time....

Jan

And if they quit digging in my container plants and throwing anything that doesn't have a bulb out on the porch.

Linda posted on Facebook that her 18 year old cat died. Sharon.

How sad...my sympathies to Linda. Pets really become part of your life, it's so hard to lose one.

So sorry Linda. I had the only cat I ever really cared about only 2 years and when she disappeared I felt so bad. I can imagine losing one after that long. Really tough.

You guys, I had a squirrel that did that each year and then I planted a Sun Sugar cherry tomato and placed it on the end of the planting. I went out to the tomato garden and here that guy was, sitting on the tongue of the trailer with one of the Sun Sugar tomatoes in his paws and eating the whole thing. After that, he only ate those tomatoes, and the plant had so many tomatoes on it that there was plenty for me too.

Moral of the story, find what they like and plant enough for them and yourself too. Live happily ever after.

Sharon, the pictures don't look much different. Sorry. Just my observation.

What'sa matter rj, can't ya keep up?

Jnette, I thought you got new glasses. One has ground cover in it and the second one has all the ground cover removed. The difference in the two photos is 3 hours. If I was not so tired, I would fly to Spokane and knock you on your butt. Sharon.

PS: I am heading to bed.

Linda prayers being said for you right now. Nothing can take that pain away, not even time. It does lessen though. He/She knew they were loved and lucky to have had you for a mommy.

Ok, Blaming Katie for my damp furniture.

Linda: I am so sorry for your loss. its a big hole that can't be filled as a loving pet can.

not much going today. I am out of it still trying to knock the cobbwebs loose from the brain.

Have a great week
Dave

Oh Linda, I am so sorry your kitty is gone. It is just a matter of time for old Barney I am sure. I have the vet coming today for a check up and he seems good but very tired with the hot weather. He has as difficult time with the sudden weather changes as I have. Poor animals.

It is hot again. The humidity is so high and I have so much to do outside it scares me when I stay out too long and I find myself getting dehydrated. I am almost caught up with the paperwork so maybe after I get some cutting planted today I will just sit inside and work on that.

Take it easy. It seems like it will be a long hot summer so get used to it and enjoy it while you can because soon I will be about the snow. LOL. Bye for now. JB

She is sure right about that. So, pick your poison as they used to say in the westerns. JB bitchin' about the snow or the heat.

Don't know Sharon, 3 hours to take out some groundcover hardly seems worth it. Why didn't you just Round up it and it would have come out a lot easier. Hee hee, chuckle, gurgle, Sharon just got here.

That skinny little lady couldn't hurt a fly. One gust of wind would knock her over.

Linda

so sorry to hear the news, losing hurts a lot. (My heart is still breaking after losing four my collies over the last 3 years.)

Jan

Vet just left. Barney had his 2 month checkup. He is great. Has a sore foot from having it cut possibly on heavy grass in the tree field. She is pleased with him and she cut his toe nails and wrapped his foot. He just loves her and thank God it does not stress him out like it did when I used to have to drive him to the vet and back again. She only charged me $122. for exam, toenails, medication for foot and trip here. That is cheaper than if I drove to the vet myself. He also gets a senior discount.....no kidding??????? She is so funny.

I put up on some pictures of my gardenias that are blooming today on the Fragrant Gardening Forum. They are so beautiful and smell so good.

I just filled 50 little cups, do not know what you call them but they are plastic and I start some cuttings in them filled with coca coir. I am hoping I can get them planted tomorrow. That coca coir is great but you must water it daily sometimes twice if the temp gets too hot. But, the cuttings really get good roots. It holds heat and water really well. Only problem, you need to transplant them earlier. Sometimes I think it wiser and cheaper to start them in the potting soil they stay in. Oh well, whatever works for ya, that is what ya do. LOL I like to change methods at times just for fun. I get bored.

Storms coming again, so off I go. Take care and have a good evening. Hugs to all. JB

JB, are those plastic cups come with the coir or do you make these up? If you buy them that way, what are they called? Might be easier than mess with all the crap I do. Can you reuse them? Or are they a one time thing and throw them out?

Now quit trying to think of something nasty to say to me. Just give me a straight answer!

I saw your post on the fragrant plant forum. You didn't tell people those Aimees die as soon as you look at them. yuk yuk, gotcha!! Now now, watch the bp.

Jen, I am going to have to hurt you soon. I told you yesterday I give up. Now knock it off or I will get nasty and come out there and kick your butt. Get ready. You are bad for my Aimee business. Gotta go. Bad Storm. I will answer your question when I get back. Promise. ,JB

Now, when I buy coconut coir, I give it multiple rinses in a deep wheelbarrow. often I can just leave it out in the rain and tip it a few times per day.

One technical article bashed coir really hard for seedlings and potted plants, and then admitted 3/4 of the way through the article that their batch started with a lot of salt in it. (DUHH)

I don't know how common that is, but now i rinse whatever coir I buy.

I also like it a lot, but some "bricks" seem to be msotly powder, not big fibers.

Corey

Different brand Corey. I have gotten the coir that way and then I have gotten it mostly chunks of bark. I do like some bark for planting perennials and shrubs in containers. Gives their roots something to anchor to. There is one brand, can't think of what it is right now, but it is about right. Some of both with fiber too. A good mix.

LOL, I made a mistake once I put one of the large bricks in a 5 gallon bucket and filled it with water. Boy, was that a mistake. It sucked up a lot of the water and wedged it so tight in there i couldn't get it out. I had to chip it out. Took a long time.

I got another brand at the hydroponic store that had a lot of short fiber coir but it had a lot of perelite in it too. Not sure I liked it but the perelite I suppose would keep it from caking. Keep oxygen in it?

Ok JB, you and Sharon keep threatening to come waaaaaaay out here and kick my butt for me. That Sharon is going to need your help she is so skinny like a stick. So, I hope you got some beef on you 'cause it's going to take a lot. I do think all it is from both of you is talk, talk, talk. When I see the whites of their eyes. Then I will believe it.

Sharon gets a head ache when I just talk to her. What she going to do when I kick her butt? I know!!! Get a butt ache.

No, the one thing I didn't tell them is that for the Aimees to die you have to pinch their little heads off and treat them nasty.

re: coir, different brand

I don;t think I've seen the smae brand name twice at Home Depot or Lowes. Which makes me think they are cheapo and not likely to be ideal or predictable. But I like that the fibers are bigger than peat, and look like they will last longer in the soil.

Moot for me, since I've become a fan of pine bark. I'll spend $8 for 2 cubic feet, and get a good grade, instead of wet, woody junk from Home depot at $3 per bag. I have to screen it, but that's OK. I can use big pieces as mulch for a raised bed, and fines to amend the RB clay. I use the middle grade for seed starting and potting up.

>> I got another brand at the hydroponic store that had a lot of short fiber coir but it had a lot of perelite in it too. Not sure I liked it but the perelite I suppose would keep it from caking. Keep oxygen in it?

I agree that coir beenifts from SOMETHING to keep it from packing together. Maybe even a little medium-coarse sand, small enough to infiltrate into a wad of fibers and spread them out. But mostly grit (bigger than sand, finer than gravel), to make bigger channels.

Once I drove a long way to find some "#2 chicken grit" , and decided I iked that LOTS better than Perlite. It has irregular, jagged shapes, so I think it will aerate better, pack less, and sneak between fibers and hold them apart better.

>> at the hydroponic store

And chicken grit or trukey grit (crushed granite, $10/50 kg) it just LOOKS like natural soil, instead of those articifical white Perlite pellets that look like someone was growing pot there before I moved in.

Not me, officer! really!

Corey

What are you talking about Corey? Everybody uses perelite. You mean because I get it at the hydroponic store? LOL, they carry Happy Frog brand and have a good organic mix that I like real well. Also they have about 4 different mixes in that brand. But the organic I like has the kelp, humic acid, and the rest. Dave could tell you what it is. A super good mix. But, I like to mix it with the Miracle Grow Moisture Control. The Happy Frog has the coir in it.

The coir holds the moisture much better than peat.

Well, we had a high in the low 90s today, and then it is dropping into the 70s Friday and Saturday. I sure am sorry we had such a lousy June. A repeat of last year. The tomatoes just are not setting fruit.

Sharon, I keep forgetting to ask you how Todd's family enjoy their camping trip to Montana? Where abouts in Montana did they go?

Lee, are you home now? Or did you go back to your friend's flood?

Well, guess I better go clean up my mess. We made a recipe of Huckleberry jam this morning and then Bob made a pie out of what berries we had left. And have the oven cleaning. Trying to use up the ones in the freezer 'cause it's the berry season coming up. We don't pick, but I do normally buy a couple gallons from others that do. That is super hot work. We used to buy from a couple of teenage boys that picked each year saving for something. Didn't see them last year so they must have met their goal or changed it.
But they picked really nice ones and they were always nice and clean. They were up to $30 a gallon last year. Hope they haven't gone up.

>> it just LOOKS like natural soil, instead of those articifical white Perlite pellets that look like someone was growing pot there before I moved in.

>> What are you talking about Corey? Everybody uses perelite. You mean because I get it at the hydroponic store?

I just don't like the way Perlite looks in soil, especially after I dump pots into flower beds. Usually I have nothing against "artificial", but for some reason I like soil to look "real". It's probably a quirk.

The association comes from READING ABOUT growing certain things indoors in the '70s and '80s. Really, officer!

Corey

Corey, I do not think Perlite is artificial. My dad use to get very large bags of it in the 60s from a mine in Lincoln county, Nevada.

Jnette, you get JB and I wrong. We will not beat your butt, our mob friends will and probably will not even charge us. But I do not know about JB's mob friends, but most of mine now wear Depends.

Jnette, again. If all I had to remove was the ground cover, it would have taken 20 minutes. I had a wheel barrel full of roots when I got done. Today, third day, I was double digging in some Miracle Grow potting mix and found another one. I moved some of the big rocks out of the way when I was double digging and decided I was getting to old to move them back so I just made the bed larger. I should be done tomorrow.

Jnette, where did you get the idea I am skinny. I wish.

Did you all see the wind storm that hit Phoenix? We have had rain all around us but none here. I was in the garden from 8am until 3pm but it was cloudy and low 90s. I was also in the shade the majority of the time.

When I was not working on the bed, I was grazing on my yellow pear tomatoes and a couple of romas.

The only thing I use to get rid of weeds is attitude.

I will post photos tomorrow if I get done. Sharon

Well Sharon, you know what I think of your pictures. LOL Just kidding, go ahead and send them.

You didn't say how Todd and Family enjoyed, or didn't enjoy, their trip to Montana. Maybe it wasn't so great huh?

Sharon, the stuff you are doing,digging and moving the rocks etc. are things I was doing in my 30s. That is why I wore out my joints. Too much of it.

Yes, I saw the wind storms. All I could think of was rain on it. Mud. Yuck.

Sounds like a thunder storm coming. Might be a good time to get off of here. ttyl,

Sharon all around it keeps getting hit, one day us, the next Lancaster the next Palmdale. We thought we were getting it again today but it did not happen, just some lightning and the smell of rain near by, winds were kicking up the desert dirt and sticky but no rain in my town.

Advise please. I bought these Buddelia from the lady that was going to compost them. They arrived on a hot week so they did not look great out of the package. only one is thriving with leaves, the others look like a flexible stick> What do I do. I don't know if they are over or underwatered at this point and what can I do to save them?

I'd pot them up and see if they sprout leaves. They're a pretty durable plant, almost like a shrubby mint. Almost.

Celene is right. You can hardly kill those things. They will be fine Dawn. Unless of course there is a big difference between your area and ours. I dug and chopped one year trying to get the entire plant out. Somehow missed one little piece and the next year had the biggest one ever.

celene: have you reach out to her and told her about the poor shape they arrived in? I would do that as well as keep an eye on them. buddelia are tough as nails give them some time they should bounce back unless they fried to a crisp in shipping.
also try the scape test on the limbs. with your finger nail lightly scape the bark to see below if its green its alive if not then you may have a problem. I stoped shipping last week because its too hot to ship.

I am writing to say hi in between storms. You all seem well, so I will make it short.

Do not laugh, I am going to go see about a hearing aid tomorrow. I will let you know how I make out. I hate to spend the money on something other than plants or the garden but what the heck. I am tired of not hearing what is going on. LOL

Have a good evening and see you tomorrow. HUH ! JB

best to ya jberger on the hearing aid. Let us know how you make out.

Jan

>> Corey, I do not think Perlite is artificial. My dad use to get very large bags of it in the 60s from a mine in Lincoln county, Nevada.

Wikipeia says you're right. What I use is "expanded perlite", not unexpanded ("raw") Perlite.

>> "Perlite ... has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. "

850 to 900 degrees C
>> "causes the expansion of the material to 7–16 times its original volume."
>> "The expanded material is a brilliant white, due to the reflectivity of the trapped bubbles. "

Was your Dad's Perlite the glare-white round beads that I'm used to?

Corey

Pughbear, everything I got was in good shape, I was commenting on someone else's buddleias. :) I don't think I'm going to try overwintering my frostproof gardenias outside this year, but beyond that, they were all good and she sent me extra stuff as well.