Propagation: Propagation: part IV based on my own experienc

Most are. we just started getting frozen rain, kind of like small shavings of ice. Its going to be a nasty one I fear. They are still calling for a minamul amount of the stuff. How can they tell if a storm is just going to be light or if its going to dump on us? Have a great evening Dave

SNOW for me LOL 4" and cold all day high was in the 50's. and last I look it was 29* thats not like us as a norm for this time of the year that happens in Feb. LOL
I know the tree thing, we had 28 trees removed in 93 and they where not small ones. Had loggers come in and sold the wood.

Somehow I think we got off of what the Tread was Sorry Dave... LOL

This was this morning.

Yea it wanders from time to time. I will post tomorrow for the next installment on starting a small home based business, or at least a disscussion on what I am doing and why I am doing it this way
Dave

It was fun Wandering LOL
Nite all

Questioon- I've planted about 200 hosta seeds, about 10 % gave germinated so far (2 weeks)- now, do I still leave the cover on to boost the humidity, or remove the cover to circulate the air more for the seedlings??

avianut:
good question. Normally I would say to either try to vent the propagation box somehow or remove the top for a few moments to exchange the air or prop it up. You are in that wonderful window of are they done germinating and how much humidity do the new seedlings need? I do know the new seedlings need a good supply of fresh air for them to preform well. Too much humidity is asking for a disease to set in.
Jim I will defalt to you being our hosta expert. Personally I have not had much luck with hostas from seed. I am not sure if I soaked them too long or just recieved bad seed all around. can someone give us a quick pointer post on best germination technique? I have about 200 seeds coming in the mail this next week. I was planning to do the 24 hour soak with peroxide and then plant.

Ok: Small business 101:
First and formost this is a loose reference and I strongly suggest that you consult with a tax professional and check out the local zoning laws especially if you plan on selling from your home. A visit to a good attourney would be a good idea as well.
We need to decide what we are going to grow, which market we are targeting and to what scale we want the business to grow to. I am targeting the ebay and other online markets to sell my plants. I am sticking to the woody ornamental shrubs (mostly flowering)and grasses. Specifically Daylilies, spirea, crepe myrtle, forsythia and hostas. I plan to not have any sales from my house to anyone off the street. By sticking to ebay and wholesale it gets me around the tax collection process a retail outlet has to deal with.
One of the most important things to keep in mind is how much does it cost to produce the plant to a size that is marketable. Soil, containers, seeds, liners, fertilizer and insecticides are the obvious. Also we need to figuire in, travel/delivery (to the post office or delivery of), time (labor to plant the seeds or liner, and time spent growing) Time spent growing can be set at a cost per square foot.) The cost per sq ft can be tricky as most of us are doing this as a hobby that may or may not make a profit. for the most part its so we can offset our expenses for soil and other supplies we use in our gardens. One way to look at it is to figuire out the square footage of your property and next figuire out how many sq feet of the lot you are using. the space used is a percentage of the property size. The next part can be tricky in that most of us live in a house on the property and that there are fixed expenses as well as variable every month . The variable costs are water and electricity. Once you have assigned a percentage of the expense you will need to figuire out the expense of said expense by taking the percentage of the monthly bill and keep track of the expense as well as all expenses. I am using quickbooks but there are a lot of different programs out there to choose from.
I am sure that the expense part of the record keeping is where most people get into trouble with the IRS and local governments taxation.
Now that we have established where we will set up our nursery we need to chat about initial set up. There are a number of ways to set up your project. It can be just you own landscape that you plan to sell from or you amy want to set up a greenhouse to do propagation in. I have an 8' X 10' greenhouse. I use the north and south side of the greenhouse to hold plants. the area is about 5 feet wide on each side. therefore based on the discussion I am using and area 18' X 10'. I plan to also add an area along the south side of my greenhouse that will be 4 feet wide and 30 feet long so my total square footage is 420 sq ft. My lot is .25 acres which figuires out as 420/(.25 x 40000)=4.2%.
On the ground I plan to use a landscape cloth that will keep the weeds from invading the containers as well as help slow down the roots from rooting into the ground below. There are a number of choices for containers. I am using a combination recycled plastic nursery containers and the grow bags. The grow bags as most of us know is a plastic container that is made similat to a trash bag. they have been folded, pleated and been given holes for darainage. If you are using the bags you need to be aware that the roots of plants like to travel out the drainage holes and down into the ground. I try to lift or spin the bag once each year. Hopefully they won't be in the nursery more than a year. If your ground is uneven it would be advisable to level the ground prior to installing your ground cloth. Ground cloth comes in a number of styles. The heavy duty silt fencing product works well for narrow areas. Also a black plastic make a good cover. Black plastic can be bought at a local hardware store either in the paint department or in the garden center.
Irrigation: There are several ways to go about watering your area. The most time consuming is hand watering. I recomend an irrigation system for your containers. In the landscape I plan to use a drip emitter system. In the container area's I will use a pvc system with an 18" riser and a half circle spray pattern. I like the spray irrigation because I can see if its working. It is the least water conservative method. With drip irrigation the emitters can get cloged and the plant can go without water untill its discovered. I have lost plants on drip irrigation so I prefer the spray. I will have 2 or 3 seperate irrigation areas. they can be put on a valve system and a timer to help with time management. I plan to do the stations manually so that I can adjust the amount of water the plants are getting based on my assesment of the conditions in the nursery.
I think we will take a break here and see if there are any questions or any input on anything I may have overlooked or if someone has a better way to do things please let us know.
Dave

avianut: I was looking around and found this it may help. Dave

http://www.hostalibrary.org/seed/indoors/seed.html

I went to that hosta thing and really tells you what you need to know about growing hostas from seed.I am going to bookmark it so I can go back and refer to it when I need to as I am planning on starting hostas from some seed too.
Thanks Pugh

My pleasure. I find a lot of links when I am looking stuff up. some good some bad but I figuire we have to wade through everything to get it narrowed down.

I know what you mean about the drs. I had to go because I had to have stitches out. The dr is 90 miles away and it was 6 below at home and the power had just gone out so we decided to leave early. 20 miles from home it was 25 below.

Fortunately the power was not out for long. I had 2 dogs and a cat in the house but the house didn't cool down too much.

Now I have to go back and read all of your posts. Sounds like you all were busy today.

Jeanette

Thanks for the link, Pugh! It gave me a lot of information. I will do my seeds a bit differently next time ^_^. Oh well, for an experiment they are doing pretty well. I think I'll take the cover off now and see how they fair!

Regarding expenses, would you add in 4.2% of your Real Estate taxes, too, and something reasonable(?) for land rent as well, or don't you go that far?

This message was edited Dec 16, 2008 8:05 AM

Yes those expenses are how you come up with a cost per sq. ft.. I am just using that as a guide to make sure I am being fair on priceing of the plants I sell. So if your house payment is 1000.00 per month the expense would be $ 42.00 per month , utilities 300.00 per month the expense would be $12.60 per month. with the total cost should be 0.12 per sq ft .
Its all up to you and how in depth you want to get. I am not sure how we will do the property and utility expenses, luckily my wife is a cpa so I can lean on her for advise. Now all this is provided I got the math correct which I believe it is takeing 420 sq ft X 0.12 (cost per sq ft) rounds the expense up to $50.40. I would rather cushion my expense than have it too lean. Now if you are placing 4 - 6" pots together it totals 1 sq ft so the expense per 6" pot would be $0.03 per pot per month. so if the plant spent a year on the ground growing it would cost you $0.36 plus the cost of the pot, soil and chemicals. I would think for ease of calculations you could take the cost of shemicals and apply the same formula to the expense. It would be hard to keep track of I sprayed these plants but not those so how much is the expense? to deep for me.
I hope I didn't totally confuse everyone with the math.
Dave

Well pugh,jnette, tilly,
Guess what!!! I actually got a cheap greenhouse coming WOOO HOOO. It is really a cheap one but it will serve my purpose. It is a 12'x7'x7' it is a nice sized one . Now all I have to do is get it up when it gets here and figure out how to put some heat in it.

Hey guys! Ya'll been busy while I was gone. About the hosta's . I wintersowed a bunch last year andwhen they started coming up, I gave them about 3 weeks and then figured that was all I'd get. Just left the containers where they were (I was lazy and just didn't dump them) Went back out a couple months later and there were a bunch of little babies) So, don't give up on them. The ones I did inside took a long time too. IN some of the trays , I put other seeds thinking those were not coming up. Had them coming up in all sorts of places.

By the way, if any of you are new, within the last 8 months or so, and need seeds, be sure to come over to the "newbie" seed trade for your free seeds.
Here's the link http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/932800/#new

OK FF, spill the beans. Where did you get it? When do you get it? Let us know.

Jeanette

HI Everyone, I am just checking in. I won't be online much for the next couple of weeks, but I wanted to say hi. Things are slow right now and I haven't started anything. I keep thinking I will, but then I keep getting bogged down in the projects that I am trying to finish up. I will check in soon. Until then Everyone have a Very Merry christmas if I don't get to talk to you before then. Linda

Oh flower, so happy for you, when do you get it? I heat mine for now with flood lights in the metal drop light domes that clip one, you buy for working on cars. Keeps it from freezing.

You may also try using milk jugs full of water. the sun heats the water and the heat escapes during the night. Good sugestion tilly. How many lights per length of gh or sq ft of gh?
Dave

I got it off ebay from wpic-bestdeals. $119.00 free shipping. Got a notice that it was being shipped thru UPS. So I guess it will be here probably by next week. I am so excited !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Pugh, the milk jugs sounds good but there isn't but one problem with that we got no sun BOO HOO

This message was edited Dec 18, 2008 8:51 PM

I use 2 in my GH is only 8' one for every 4' of space.

tilly what do you keep in your GH? Is there anything that can be hurt if there was a lesser amount of heat. I don't know how much heat I am going to need. I have some plants that I want to put in there but they have to have quite a bit of heat, so what I am wondering if the lights would put out enough heat with the type of weather we are having now. I have a couple of grow lights and I know they will help but will need more too.
Any Advise?

Tilly, that is wonderful. Good buy!! Why don't you check out the greenhouse thread here. I am sure there is one, and find out from the people on there what they think. There probably are people even growing your specific plants.

Get the info direct from the horses mouth. And free shipping !! That is great!!

Pugh: I just found this thread and forum and can see I have much winter reading to do here. Your efforts are not in vain with me and I see that others are benefitting also. Thank you and bear with me while I plow through all this material. I keep finding wonderfully informative forums on DG and can't praise the site enough.

DG rocks!

Welcome HP:
I am glad you found us. I hope to post more in the next few days Dave

Dave, look in ebay under greenhouse in home and garden. I tried to send you one to look at, a 6foot heating cable with thermostat. I didn't have your address.

Jeanette

Dave, Here is another place that seems to have pretty good prices on the heat cables. It's called Growers Solutions. I have it saved and am thinking about maybe getting a couple from there.

In looking at Growers Solution and Parks, it appears the cheapest I can see is around $40 per tray. 72 plug. GS has a unit like this with a dome. And free shipping.

Thanks Tilly
FF if you have any doubt and its a plant that you highly treasure then I would keep it inside. I propagated small plants of some of my must keeps and brought in mom and dad.. I have plumeria, begonias, impatens and some other assorted tender plants. Its all acording to how your GH is situated. How much direct sun do you get? Is it south facing? Is there anyway to protect the northside of the GH from the winter winds? I had my best location at the rent house we were in last year. I had it against the brick wall of the garage so the wide part faced south and the north side was against a brick wall that absorbed heat and radiated it back into the GH.
A nice flooring will help as well either gravel, stepping stones or a concrete slab would help a lot. I try to think about what will absorb heat and store it for the night.
I hope this helps
dave

Yes growers solution is the best they have a discount for DG members. its in a coop but I would guess they would do it when ever to get the most business they can.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/926025/

I think the guy's name is randy. It looks like a good discount on an already good price. I love there site I have ordered a few things from them and it was a great experience.
Dave

I went through Roger at growers solution whenI did the last co op with them. I think everyone there is really nice.

Ok, FF, how did you know where to go looking for the greenhouse. Did you do a search on Ebay? Spill it girl, we wanna go there too.

Hi guys and gals,
Yes I bought it on ebay. I just went into gardening and outdoors and then went into greenhouses and was looking thru them when I found it .
It doesn't have the glass sides and all of that it is the tarp like covering but not trap either it is made of some sort of breathable material and has windows that you can zip up and the door zips up too, metal frame work. kind of puts you in the mind of a tent but bigger,it is a 12'x7'x7'. As far as the sun I can set it right out in the sun or I can set it to where it is partially shaded.
They had 3 or 4 of them on there I always go to ebay and just look at things to do with gardening and like I said I just went to GHs' and there it was !!!!!!
Dave when I get this and get it set up which direction should I put it. north/south or east/west Our trailer sets north /south. the front of it is facing the east and the back west and it handles the wild wind we get and never hardly notice them. We went thru those winds from Ike and never really even noticed them that much.

I would put it on the south side of the trailer. That way you get shelter from the north wind as much as possible. the block from the north will help you keep it a bit warmer on the bone chilling nights.
It sounds like it would look like an extension to your trailer. Its all a personal preference but on the south end of the trailer would be optimum unless there are trees that would blaock the sun durring the day.
I used to get sun from 2pm to sunset. Now I get sun from about 12:00 to about 6:00. My north side is completely exposed. I put this on top of my gh as well as straped down over the front entry. I have seen it used at one of the big retail garden centers as well as wally world to keep the cold out. It provides 15% shade. I would use a double to tripple walled poly sheeting or inflated double layer of poly. I prefer the sheets because I always worry about the inflater part leaking and not holding up. Just my own personal phobea.here is the link. I love charlies green house as one of the few I use for supplies.

http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?searchflag=1&page=_search&s=1340&PageNum_newsearchQuery=1&varShowPer_custom=12&varOrderby=ProductId&varSorting=ASC&varColumns=3&f=1&mtype=3&enter.x=11&enter.y=14

I hope this helps
Dave

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Ok there you go !!!! this is where I got mine.

I got a little lost somewhere, I didn't buy anything, I think that was Flower.
Sorry work work and weather has me a little keyed up for now. And most of what I have now in the GH is my pot getto. I did not want to leave them out in the cold. the seedling that I have are all Hellebore's and this is what they have to go thru. But on a bad note, I my have lost everything in it, lost power and they are all froze. We will see, what happens, power is back on.

Oh tilly I am so sorry that you have lost your babies. I am glad that so far we have not had that kind of weather. It has been forever since something like that has happened during the winter. We would freeze to death here or have to go to a realitives. We are total electric and we would lose everything.

Oh no!!! Sorry to hear that, Tilly!

Tilly I am really dense. What do you mean pot getto? Sure sorry to hear that your stuff froze. It must have really gotten cold over there. You all are not used to that.

Jeanette

I don't know if I lost anything, as yet. I am praying I didn't lose to many, keep your fingers crossed. powers been back on and I got a heater spot light on now, we'll see if it works.
Snowing like crazy, hated the drive home. I love the snow as long as I don't have to drive in it.

What we call a pot ghetto on the PNW. Is plants collected from swaps, exchanges, trades, or where ever. and you have not got the bed ready, or not sure what you want to do with it, keep it or give it away at the next swap. So you end up with all these plants in pots, in a big group. 'The Pot Ghetto' Hope that explains it, And thats not counting the box of seeds. LOL

Mine

Oh Tilly, you must have done the piggy swap. I write to another lady that is in that and she says she has seeds coming out her ears.

Now I know what a pot ghetto is. You've got some neat plants there Tilly. You should find a place and plant them. I know, just don't have time.

Jeanette