Ipomoea purpurea X Ipomoea nil

Thanks, Debra! Congrats on your Purple Blizzard and Moonflower vines! Be sure to share photos here on the forum! :-)

Wishing you and everyone here a lovely Thanksgiving with family and friends! Enjoy your turkey day! :-)

Becky - The youjiro are not sterile...the youjiro that you have may not be producing much pollen,but generally speaking they are definitely not sterile and have produced lot's of seeds for others...including myself...

I suggest that you try increasing the genetic diversity of your youjiro by adding in additional genes from youjiro plants that were excellent seed producers...

Plants that hybridize inter-specifically with difficulty do tend to have a much lower fertility than plants which hybridize easily and this may certainly result in a lower perpetuation of any natural hybrids that might occur in Ipomoea...

F = Filial (of the parents)
F1 - first generation from the particular parental stock
F2 -second generation from the particular parental stock

"If the sepal structure looks like I. purpurea, does that mean that it is definitely NOT a cross? Or can there be a cross that has sepals that resemble I. purpurea characteristics with other minor characteristics of I. nil? Do I. nil sepals dominate in crosses between these two species?"

So far,the I.purpurea hybrids with both I.hederacea and I.nil show the sepals of the hederacea and the nil , so my view would be that if the offspring of a suspected hybrid has sepals of purpurea...it is very likely to be purpurea...but without genetic analysis who can say for sure...although if subsequent generations produce plants that all look like purpurea and don't exhibit any noteworthy signs of any other species...I think it can safely be concluded that what looks like purpurea is purpurea...

I think that you should hope for the best, but...let's see what the light seeds that you have actually produce...


Hope that helps...


TTY,...


Ron



P.S. - Latin abbreviation lesson of the decade...especially for any 'english' teachers...

etc. = et cetera (it is never abbreviated as 'ect' ; there is no 'k' sound in the pronunciation and is not pronounced 'eksetra' , here, in Siam or in japan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera
http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html

Thanks, Ron for explaining the "F" (Filial). I knew the 1 and the 2 and so on .. meant generation numbers.

As far as the fertility (pollen production) of my Youjiro blooms ... I am not quite sure what is going on in my garden. Almost all the Youjiro vines I've grown have either had a low seed production issue or I've had to hand-cross it with other I. nils. I guess I need to cross these vines/blooms with I. purpurea? These are not all from the same strain of seeds. I have gotten different Youjiro seeds from different folks in swaps and again ... low pollen production. Maybe Youjiro JMGs require something more or less in the fertilizer or soil or environment or water? I wonder if others here on the forum have noticed similar issues with any Youjiro that they have grown?

The Yaguruma x Maisugata natural cross I grew out this summer made probably less than 20 seed pods, but each one was gigondo to the point of being ginormous! I recall the Yaguruma vine making a lot of seeds back in 2005 for me, but Maisugata was not a good seed maker.

Joseph - Thanks for that information about your Yaguruma and Maisugata vines and their seed production. Interesting ...

Well, finally! My dh built the window shelves and they are working out great. I will be growing 8 vines (in their own pots) in the bedroom window. We'll see how many sprout ...

I am growing 2 of the lighter seeds from the possible cross of Purple Flaked (I. purpurea) and BAW (I. nil). I am also growing a BAW seed. Also a "Pink/Blue Star" seed which I got from Bev that looks like it "might" be an I. purpurea seed. Not sure though what species it is. (Small light tan seeds.) And I am growing 2 more of her seeds - Heian no Kaori (also known as "Oreheme") and Seiryu. I believe these seeds are older (possibly 2004), so I am not sure how easily they will germinate. If they don't germinate, I'll try the nicking and soaking method if I can find the time. Alot going on personally for me right now ...

I am also growing a seed from Blue Blizzard (F1) from the summer grow-out and one seed from the Fuji Chocolate vine that I just grew. The Blue Blizzard didn't produce much in the way of seeds this current grow-out and I know some of you were wanting seeds. Five of these seeds being grown are definitely I. nils, the other 3 I am not sure about. Well ... yes ... I am sure about the Purple Flaked being an I. purpurea. But am hoping it is also a cross with I. nil. :-)

Here is a photo of the 2 PF seeds. I have them marked by letters corresponding to the letter on each pot. So as you can see, one seed is light and the other is a darker tan/brown color.

And here is my modest window set-up. I can only get 8 pots on those two shelves. And the pots are small ... like a quart each, so I don't know how well the vines will do. I handmade the circling trellis for 4 of them out of wire and used Bamboo for the other four pots. As you can see ... very limited space. We shall see ...

Here is a close-up of my handmade circling trellises. Not pretty, but hopefully functional.

Oh, I love that window!! lots of natural light and the spiral trellis.
A.

Becky.. excellant growing area! Good Job! hooray for DH!!!

Thanks, Antoinette and Debra! :-)

I wish I had 3 or 4 more windows just like it getting daily sun. The sun shines all day in through that window. I hope it doesn't fry the vines. I will have to water them often as the window faces south and gets a lot of heat and sun. It probably gets 6 hours of sun or more a day. Which might be a little too much for the vines. The pots are actually plastic and white color. They are sitting in a plastic base which I will add water to regularly once the vines start growing. I am hoping the color of the pots that will reflect the sunlight a little.

Here is a photo from the outside of the house. I just finished cutting the hedge along the house. It was a little overgrown. Now all 8 of the pots get plenty of sunlight!!! :-) Pretty crazy looking, huh? Now if I can just keep my cat from jumping up on the shelves and knocking all the pots off... LOL! (Actually, it's NOT funny ... sigh)

This message was edited Nov 29, 2008 3:07 PM

Dany - Thanks for posting that photo above of Pink/Blue Star I. purpurea. I think you may be right ... the seeds are probably for that particular cultivar that I received from Arlene. I am only growing one seed. It has light seeds, so figured I could cross it with an I. nil with dark seeds! :-)

Becky, the light colored pots should reflect the sun rather than absorb it.
If the sun stresses your vines too much, maybe you could temporarily hang
some netting of some kind?

Jackie - I was thinking of using something to give them a little shade during the day or filtered sunlight. Good idea! Thanks for that suggestion!!!

Becky last year I had some lace curtains that I used behind the curtains and hanging planters in the south window, it seemd to help.. I love the way your window looks!

One of the Purple Flaked I. purpurea seeds sprouted today. This is H. The seed that was more of a darker tan/brown. I have no idea what I am looking for ... it looks like I. purpurea to me.

Becky - The cotyledon here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5851981
looks typical for Ipomoea purpurea...

TTY,...

Ron

That's what I thought, too, Ron. Here is a little better shot of the cotyledon.

It will be interesting to see what sprouts in the "G" container. I don't see anything ... yet.

whats the "g" container? LOL

Debra - The G container is also one of the seeds from the Purple Flaked I. purpurea that may possibly be a cross with an I. nil. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5840328 I lettered the pots so I would know what is in each one. :-)

OH! LOL sowwy, I had forgotten.. well, I am not giving up on the purple blizzard, and the one that just popped up is from you I believe..

Here is the sprout in pot G. This one also looks like an I. purpurea to me.

What do you think, Ron?

This is also the lightest tan seed of the two I planted.

This is the first sprout now. (Pot H.)

looking good Becky!

Becky - Could you post a top view of the cotyledons in the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5862717

Thanks...

Ron

Thanks, Debra!

Ron - This is the best photo I could get of a top view of "G". This is a very small cotyledon. (The leaf shape looks a little different than the other cotyledon in pot H.)

I collected the rest of the seeds on the mother vine this morning. All the seeds were black or very dark color. I haven't seen any lighter seeds since the first few weeks of collecting seed pods. I had stopped trying to cross this vine after a few weeks because of time and too many blooms on the PF and not enough blooms on the Blue Asago Willow vine. So ...

This message was edited Dec 6, 2008 9:22 AM

Becky - So far,the cotyledons look like I.purpurea to me...did you post the cotyledons of the I.nil that you are hoping that it crossed with someplace (?)

TTY,...

Ron

Ron - No I. nils crossed that I could discern. So it's either these PF I. purpurea seeds or none at all.

Becky - I realize that the seedling posted in the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5864382
is the result of the seeds that you are hoping might have crossed with either
Both Mutant Blue Needle Leaf Nanding (MBNLN) or the Blue Asago Willow (BAW)

What I am asking you is:

1) Are there cotyledon photos posted anywhere by you (or perhaps anyone else) of the cotyledons of the Mutant Blue Needle Leaf Nanding (MBNLN) or the Blue Asago Willow (BAW)

The cotyledons of the Mutant Blue Needle Leaf Nanding (MBNLN) or the Blue Asago Willow (BAW) would be useful to compare to the cotyledons of any suspected or actual hybrids that have either one of these I.nils as an actual or suspected parent...



TTY,...


Ron

I have infant BAWs right now but I have to charge my battery. Comin' right up....

I have no photos of the BAW or MBNLN cotyledons. We may have to wait and see what the true leaves look like and also the blooms.

If these seeds were not a cross, I have no idea why I got tan color seed coats. Most of the seeds that I collected from the PF I. purpurea vines were dark. The seeds that I collected recently from this current BAW grow-out were tan. I think it is the only vine that I am currently harvesting seeds from that produced tan seeds, except for those oddball PF seeds. The MBNLN is not producing tan seeds because it was crossed with Jishi from last season. I believe the MBNLN is a volunteer from my April grow-out. So ... from my current seed collecting ... BAW is the only vine that has tan seedcoats (besides the few seeds from PF).

Shawna - That would be great if you could post a photo of your BAW cotyledon. Thanks!!!

Blue Asagao Willow

Becky - Whether the cotyledons posted here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5864382
turn out to be a hybrid or not,it is still useful and relevant to compare the cotyledons...now and for any future reference...

Does the hypocotyl color and the cotyledons of the seedling "G" look like what your strain of I.purpurea (that was the gestational parent) produce and correlate (?)

Shawna - Thanks for your quick responsive interest and contributions...

Can we see what color the hypocotyl is on the BAW (?)...it would be useful to compare to the hypocotyl on the suspected hybrid seedling and to the hypocotyl(s) of any seedlings of the particular I.purpurea parent strain... ...


Thanks (!)


TTY,...


Ron




This message was edited Dec 6, 2008 3:18 PM

hope this helps.

here's a different one with the seed still attached.
gotta get those tweezers out & do surgery....

Shawna - Thanks for sharing those photos!!! My mind is definitely NOT with it these days ... I have a sprout of BAW growing right now that looks just like Shawna's. I completely forgot I was growing a BAW in one of my pots. (sigh)

The stem on the BAW is reddish color and the leaves have a reddish vein. Looks nothing like the cotyledons growing in pots G and H. So ... probably not a cross with BAW.

So ... what would cause the PF vine to produce light colored seeds? I collected 14 total lighter seeds. NONE of the seeds that I have collected since those 14 have been lighter. I probably have about 150 dark seeds now. I am really curious to see what the leaves will look like and what the blooms will show.

This message was edited Dec 6, 2008 6:53 PM

Here is a new photo of vine "H". Heart-shaped leaf. Definitely an I. purpurea.

Here is a current photo of vine "G". Also looks like an I. purpurea first real leaf.

So now I wait to see if the blooms are the typical Purple Flaked or something else...

The " G " vine first real leaf is not too hairy for a purpurea ?