Hardy Tropical forum.

Non of the new hybrids have names yet. Unfortunately it will be sometime before they are on the market. Hopefully some will be out next year if all goes well. The plants have to be tested in many areas. First they have to be attractive and offer something that is not already on the market. Hardiness is a bit hard to test and some plants as I am sure many of you may know can do great in one yard and die in the next. Musa basjoo is a good case were some do great for people and others struggle with them. So testing this plant for a really accurate hardy rating may take it longer to get it out. The three colocasias that are Colocasia pink China 11 years in zone6 Colocasia big dipper 7 years always protected and Colocasia black Pearl 4 years. I am proud to say I have named each one and most are finding their way to the market.

Hey, I have the pink china, too!!! :o)

BTW, I am not able to find the 'Brian Williams' on here, would love for the info to be in PlantFiles! :o)

Here it is in plantfiles
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/120454/

Here is a photo of my plant the year before last. I have not tested it for hardiness sense both parents were not hardy for my area. I have heard it preformed well in Georgia and possible zone 7b. I have heard one report here that it has survived next to a house foundation for 3 years. I am not sure how well it has preformed in that area. I may test one out this season to see how it does. I would always suggest with something like this a good mulching or protection in winter.

I think this is a wonderful idea too! And Brian I would be happy to be your guinea pig to see what is hardy in this area!!! :-)

I would be interested. Even though it get blasted hot here in the summer the area I live in often will go down in the 20's.

HA HA HA Cathy! I wanted to be the one who did that!!! :o) LOL
WOW, I just can't believe I actually have one that is gonna be that beautiful!!!

What is the one to the right on this pic?
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/95262/

Got the Pink China as well! Keep it up, Brian. Misty, Shadow, and I will definitely keep you in business.

WEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAA I really do NEED more! HE HE HE :o)

The one on the right is a caladium. It was called a species out of India which caladiums are native to south america. I believe it is a older hybrid. Not sure on the name they have so many of them.

I kinda thought it might be as they are another new obsession for me! LOL :o) I have six bulbs planted now that I am anxiously awaiting, and one plant that a friend mailed me from Florida, which made a nice bitterly cold trip!

Thanks Tammy! Am certainly interested to extend my small collection of EEs. Got some boggy areas on our property. Keep talking BWilliams!
~Jaye

LOL Jaye, you are quite welcome, and I kinda liked being an enabler! :o)

Well my breeding of hardy tropicals manly deals with the Colocasias, Eucomis - pineapple lily, Cannas and Callas. I also breed last year some Hardy Cactus pads 4 different forms. I have been working on Bananas and Castro beans as well but very little to show for that now. Most of my work is for my own enjoyment. I usually am trying to make a plant that I can use in my own garden rather than trying to make one just for the market. I get some people who say why do you need a 12 foot black elephant ear or 10 foot cannas. I like miniatures but I love the big tropicals as well. their is a place for them all if you have enough room.
Breeding is not for everyone I know but I have a blast doing it and with out it I probably would have gotten bored of the same old plants long ago. Now I look at plants as if they have certain things to offer in my breeding. Some plants may have only one feature that I am after and will breed for. Then you also get surprises when you breed two things that produce something you never expected. With the Colocasias I breed, I found some with blue leaves and purple veins and others with pink stems and dark spots. Cannas are no different I find I am extremely interested in the darker leaf forms. These dark leaves are seldom seen in garden displays and if I am able to get a nice or beautiful flower on top of them then it just adds to the interest. My main interest in cannas has always been foliage. The leaves are still my main interest as the base for most my breeding, but adding the nice flowers different sizes from miniatures to extremely tall forms has always interested me. Some new things I have discovered in my canna breeding are rippled leaves downward hanging flowers and color changing flowers. I find I like extremes, either sizes colors or shapes.

Here is a canna I breed a few years ago called Exotic Fantasy. The leaves are purple and blue underneath. The flowers are a bright pink color it gets a bit taller than most cannas around 7 foot. I personally breed this plant for planting in between my bananas which needed something tall with color as well as flowers to contrast with the green bananas. It works perfectly for what I need it to and I have found others enjoy growing it as well.

This message was edited Feb 22, 2008 4:53 PM

WOW Brian, thanks for such a great overview!!! I, too, love the dark foliage Cannas! I could do without the flowers if I had the beautiful foliage to look at each day. :o) And the way I see these plants-The bigger the better!!!! I am looking for what I should plant under my Cannas and Banana plants, so would love any suggestions you might have! :)

Hey now Tammy, there can be more than 1 guniea pig!!! :-)

Seriously Brian, please let us know when any of this is available for purchase. I would also be interested in hardy cactus.

Ok, Cathy, I will skimp back on being Miss Piggy then! LOL :o)
Shoot, I forgot about the Hardy Cacti, I need that as well!!! Actually, I am interested in anything he is working on to make hardy for our area, Cathy! :)

Well their is not much for planting a good tropical display. The thing is I have to do it differently than I would if I were just trying to make a colorful tropical effect. Here are my common rules to making a tropical display. Plant in mass groups. One of each canna next to each other is not as dramatic as large full clumps. I suggest this for most of the flowering stuff. If you have display plants sets of 3 to 5 are best in triangle patterns. 3 bananas in a triange patter look better than one. This is the same with Caladiums one form in a mass display is much nicer than tons of different forms scattered. Another thing to always do is lay the garden out as if it were a stadium minitures in the front mediums next and so on till you get to your tall stuff this give a better over all effect. The problem in my case is my displays are not just for show. I am breeding with the plants and I need as many of each form as possible. I also have found that planting new hybrids in the landscape can lead to odd effect. I planted cannas in the front and second roll of my beds a few years back all were new seedlings and very small. By the end of the season I found I had used omega in quite a few of the hybrids they were extremely tall and right next to the walkways. It took away from the effect but just something else to look out for in my future breeding.

Misty I usually plant coleus, caladiums, Eucomis, callas, amaryllis and oddly enough some amorphophallus up front. After that I usually use a zig zag pattern for Colocasias Alocasias and cannas. Then in the back is usually the bigger things like Ensetes bananas and larger cannas. It's hard to go wrong just most people don't know what to expect form their plants. At times they put what looks bigger at that moment in the back and plant the small bananas up front. It's easy to learn and as you do it more and more you get a feel of what should go where.

Years ago a friend of mine did a display using canna bengal tiger and Colocasia illustrius in a zig zag pattern. It was a large clump of bengal tiger then slightly out front of it was a larger clump of Illustrius colocasia this went on for around 100 feet and was one of the most coloful displays I have seen. Non of the plants were extremely rare or hard to find but putting dark colors next to light colored plants always draws attention.


This is not the greatest display but it seves it's purpose. I needed a place to propagate and grow out more of my pollen parent cannas. I also wanted to make a display that could be seen from the road draw people in to visit. A lot of people thought I was crazy when I planted those little plants out their but they kept looking as they grew up.

Hmmmm.

Well, isn't "hardy tropical" a bit of a contradiction in terms? I think the term "hardy" is traditionally applied to perennial plants that can survive some degree of freezing temps, while "tropical" usually is reserved for plants that...well.... are not hardy.

We have a forum for Tropical Plants, plus forums dedicated to Aroids, Bromeliads, Cannas, Coleus, Gingers, Hoyas, and Plumerias (all usually considered tender perennials and/or tropical plants).

If a grower has production-related questions, those probably belong in the Market Growers forum. Carrying on plant breeding and new introductions conversations need to be done thoughtfully so as not to blur the line between "just regular gardener chat" and showcasing new plants and/or promoting businesses ;o)

The main difference is when you talk about tropical on the tropical forum people their are growing their plants in zone 9 or possibly higher. The main discussion with a hardy tropical forum is finding out what plants survive where, how much cold they can take and how they perform. Bananas for instance have been considered tropical for hundreds of years. Just recently with the introduction of Musa Basjoo, bananas are surviving in Ohio and further north. It is a growing trend of people who are interested in pushing plants to their limits. Their are more than a few societies dedicated to this subject.

I carried on about my plants breeding to help answer a few questions on my work. One of the main goals of the breeding is to produce plants that can survive in colder climates which is what was pictured and talked about. I may have carried on but it's only becaue this is more than a hobby to me and I tend to rant on about things I am excited about. If Dave thinks these conversations can be held in the tropical or perennial fourms that is fine. I personally think their are quite a few people who are interested in knowing how far north these tropical plants can survive.

Maybe "Hardy" is a contradiction in terms, but is there another name that could replace that, but still yet represent what many of us are interested in? I, personally, have posted in those forums looking for 'hardy' tropicals and got little response on the subject. Now when I happen to come across something that seems it 'might' survive in my zone, I add it to my want list with the hopes of acquiring it some day. :o)

Zone Cheater

I am not sure if that forum name would draw the crowd we are looking for or the topics???

Brian you are right...it is the tropical plants that I would want to grow. :)

Tropical Zone Pusher's? :o)

This is a gerat idea!!! maybe it should be the subtropical gardening forum instead of hardy tropicals.... this was suggested by CoreHHI, and im with him 10000000%
here's what he said:

If not a Forum, then maybe somewhere to post what has worked for someone in their zone and give their information on climate, freezes, etc...to allow people to figure out if a particular plant/flower is something that will work for them?

Sub-tropical forum? That could be the name and i would very much be interested. There are a lot of people who are in warm climates but get a few frosts a year. I know down on the coast here all the way into Fla. get frost but never get snow and ice etc. The ground temps never get very low either. They're many plants out there that will do find with some sub 32 weather but the tropical stuff just dies back immediately.

I would be happy with any name, just so long as we can get something! :o)

For anyone interested, here is the thread with the responses I got when asking about Tropicals Hardy for my Zone:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/797901/

Yep, misty, that's exactly the way it goes. With all due respect to the Tropical Gardening Forum folks, they are for the most part nearly all in Zone 9 and above and really don't know the answers to the questions we have.

In the Palms and Cycads Forum, I asked about planting a King Palm in a raised bed -- what size bed, etc. would I need. I got a couple of dozen replies telling me why I couldn't grow a King Palm in Zone 7B -- never did get a reply regarding the bed. Actually, I found a type of King Palm I believe I can grow here -- but I was told (politely) over and over why it wouldn't work!

Terry,

Growing tropicals or sub-tropicals out of zone is far different from what the Tropicals Forum or Tropical Gardening folks are dealing with, and I think the people on this thread understand that. In fact, it is similar to the request that created the Tropical Gardening Forum as distinct from the Tropicals Forum. Just as the point was made then that gardening in a tropical setting is very different from growing tropical plants, gardening with tropical or semi-tropical plants in colder zones is very different, too.

I, too, would very much like to have a forum where people like me, who want to grow these and want to know about the experiences others have had in a similar situation, can get suggestions from others who've been there, or at least get some encouragement for wanting to try. For example, what specific cultivars work, which don't, how much and what kind of protection worked or didn't, etc.


Karen

Exactly what Karen said! :o)
We could get Tropicman be our Moderator! LOL

This message was edited Feb 22, 2008 8:08 PM

I don't understand...the Tropicals forum is people in colder zones, growing tropical plants. That was why we asked for the Tropical Gardening forum - for people in tropical areas....what would be different in the one you are asking for?

I'd be interested in a zone-pusher's forum, whatever its named! Definitely yes.
Deb

Shari, I had no idea those forums were for certain ones. I don't think most of us knew really. Thanks for letting us know that.

I had assumed that one was the different tropicals that can be grown and the other was for how people grew them and all of them were for those in the warmer climates.

I agree with Robin, what she said! :o)
BUT, I still think it would be great to have a Forum for those of us that are interested in this type of information, such as you all got yours for different reasons. :o)

I can't see the difference really. i agree with Shari on this one.

Hardy to maybe zone 7 isn't really hardy.

I'm with Shari too, I'm a bit confused why we need a new forum, a lot of the people who hang out in the tropicals forum live in colder climates.

Yes, a LOT of us hang out there because we want to learn about the Tropicals. But don't ya all think it would be easier for those of us who want to learn more if there was a particular forum for things such as this?!
We that aren't as lucky would like to learn, without having to search through a gazillion threads, what we MIGHT be able to plant in our area that has a good 'probability' for survival. You know, kinda like some in the warmer climates want to grow Day Lilies and Iris, and so on?

This message was edited Feb 22, 2008 8:30 PM