Water Cooler - 4

What's a partial concentration? Reading with one eye?

Looks like it will be a bloodbath on Wall St tomorrow. Foreign markets are plummeting today.

They said that the foreign markets won't crash that long as there is good market buys over there now??????

Contrary to what many say, the world still follows our lead. A recession here hurts the entire global economy.

Sigh.

Don't look at your 401(k)!!

I have 4 and I swear that three of them run negative every quarter. Thank goodness for social security and that I am old enough to be guarenteed benefits. Can you imagine if social security was invested in the stock market as was once suggested?

Depression ?

They won't admit it................... "we just have a soft economy".

The price of everything is going up. I am going to pump out more veggies this year in the GH. I have a sneaky suspicion that more folks are going to have gardens this year.

No, no depression! Maybe just a recession, and possibly not a bad one. Each of the last three has been less severe than the previous.

Cat, I would have welcomed the chance to put a portion (which is what was proposed, on a voluntary basis) of mine in the market. I guarantee I would have done better than the 1% return SS gets. People need to get used to the idea of managing their own money. The old days of guarantees from gov or pensions is gone forever.

Sorry Recession - I had a brain blockage for a second.

I ordered more veggie seeds this year, but then I ordered more of everything. Just trying to help the "soft economy". Did you know that you can eat Dahlia tubers? Also check out this list of edible flowers. I can do a lot of garden munching if we need to all have a Victor (y) garden this year.

The SS issue is so difficult. I can see that if you have a knowledgeable person that has experience in investment than having control to do better than the current rate with SS money would be good, but what about those that make a mess of their SS money? Do we bail them out like the current mortgage situation. OOPS Too political, hot potato. I'll go back to eating dahlia tubers and all the things on this list. Patti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edible_flowers

No bailouts. If the person is not comfortable, they always had the option to leave it as is. That always seemed to get lost in the hyperventilating that went on. But more important - the people who would have had the option (something like age 50 and younger) are the same people who HAVE to make those same decisions now with their 401(k). Very few - really only unionized workers - still have the traditional (defined benefit) pensions.

I have little money in AG EDWARDS. The investment companies don't cater to the individual (they mass produce). With the stocks an individule should tell them where to put it. Yeah - I would tell them to put it in a freaking potato farm or something stupid.

One radio show presented interviews with people who were asked if they'd like to participate, if given the opportunity, in investing in the stock market with a percentage of their SS funds. The one woman shocked me when she said she didn't want to have to be responsible for her future. Good grief!

That's the problem, Pirl. People don't seem to want control over their own lives.

I would take control but I would not know what the hell I was doing.

You have to educate yourself about it just like anything else. You learned gardening!

The stock market is not something that you learn over night. Its not a toy. I have looked, a little into starting to make trades in the market and it scared the living daylights out of me. Most people don't even know where the word Dow came into play ( The Dow Jones). I know there is monthy fees to get a secure account online. I know that it cost money per trade - to buy and sell. There is a time to buy and there is a time to sell. I know every business has a symbol like gold - GLD. If I was to do the stock market someone would literally have to hold my hand.

Everyone could possibly do it but, NOT ME.

You would be dealing with mutual funds, not individual stocks.

OK - what are those? Like when a state borrows money to rebuild a bridge or school or something of a public nature?

People who have a pension or a 401 are only a part of the working population. This is from David Wray of the Chamber of Commerce 401k council " In March of 2007, sixty-one percent of private sector workers had access to a retirement plan at work and fifty-one percent participated, " which means that a big chunk, 40% have nothing other than SS and most of those may have no experience at investing.

Personal responsibility and money management would be a great thing to teach people, but I doubt that will happen any time soon. The US has a dismal record in graduating educated citizens. I think we could start with some volunteer program that would require some sort of minimum monetary amount of secured and untouchable assets that are set aside to prevent people from blowing their wad and then needing public assistance in the end. We have enough homeless already. Gambling on the market with SS for many would put them under a bridge, sure as shootin'." Hey Mister, can you spare a dime? " Mutual funds are usually good but they can loose as did in the last quarter of 1994 and in first quarter of 1997 when they lost money. The market is a great game, but it is just that. Go Pats. Patti

But those 40% either are over the age where any of this would have mattered, or always had the option to change nothing!!

I sure hope this isn't political! I'm living, as many of you know, on my social security currently. My kids get $44 a month each. I was too busy getting college degrees to be working any big money jobs before I became disabled. I know a LOT about music, music theory, music history, music analysis, composition - I am educated, just not about managing my own Social Security fund.

In fact, I can barely keep up with the annual changes in Medicare and Medicaid - I generally get a nasty surprise when I try to renew my first prescription every January. I don't know how the people without college or whatever can follow all the rules and regulations.

So, no, thank you, Victor, but I do not want the additional job of trying to learn how money works and investing my $x,000 a year. But I might plant a Victory Garden...

x, Carrie

Did I mention it would have been optional?

This thread is getting long. Time to change the bottle. Please come here:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/806151/

The change "nothing" is the real problem when I am looking at the big picture. The whole SS is a mess. Those paying the most % of their salaries are getting the least, yet at the same time it does not give those who wish to control their own assets that seemingly basic right.

I think the whole thing needs a major overhaul, and a combination of proposals that addresses many inequities and as well as the loss of control need to come from all sides. Not a blue vs red deal. SS has created a monster. It has replaced personal responsibility for retirement for many, but has on the other hand, been very unfair to some while being overly generous to others.

Things that really bother me are not being able to have benefits assigned to a life partner Seeing a partner not get the benefits for someone they have lived with for decades is patently unfair. Children of such unions are denied SS benefits as well. Many states grant adoption to these families but if a death or disability occurs the benefits are not given to the child. It is a mess.

Many more major issues are involved than that of just giving individuals the right to invest as they wish and hoping to make more than the 3% per year( or whatever the # is allowed) in a private account. But I agree that removing from SS those who wish to divert a percentage of their income paid into their payroll taxes to a private account to invest as they wish would be great. But only with huge safeguards.

And only if, at the same time the amount of income coming into SS was greatly improved and replaced by granting major tax incentives causing those staying in the system to save money by ending all caps on contributions to FICA, as well as giving major tax breaks to those participating in 401k's, Ira's and other retirement plans. What goes out has to be replaced. Plus the cost to set this in motion could be hefty.

Victor, when you are President, I will make a longer list of all the SS issues that really bug me. It took us a 25 years to get my husbands SS straightened out. Somehow his number got replaced by his dead father's number at some random point by some random person so he got some random numbers. Hopefully when we start to collect, it will be OK. We think it is. I am past 62 so mine would go to my husband though I would rather it go to my son to start his adult life with what I earned. Another problem, not inheritable. Patti

No argument here - it's way past broke. But don't hold your breath if you expect anything done in your lifetime! Anyone who is up for re-election will not go near this issue. We saw that two years ago. It became way more than what FDR intended and certainly has fostered dependence. It is not a pension or a savings program. The average person retiring now has used up all he or she put in in just a matter of years. That will be less so as time goes on since everyone's ss tax went up in '86.

The only 'cure' that is not worse than the illness is to change the demographics by improving the worker to retiree ratio (which means importing more workers) but the economy has to grow to support that. The most infuriating thing about it is that the pols just don't care about the future.

Humbug!

Do you have any idea what would be happening to our parents if there was no social security?
Even those that were able to save would have never saved enough for their unexpected lifespan and the totally unexpected new medical costs that help to sustain that lifespan. There would be a much bigger problem than taxes.

This is too political for here.

Wasn't political till you got here Dave! Hee hee. I don't recall anyone saying there never should have been social security, period. And all of what you say just underscores the need for a better system.

Victor, If I disagree with your statement it is political. But your statement is not?

Dave, I did not say anything was political, including your disagreement. You said 'this is too political for here'. I merely responded to that assessment.

Oh.

Guess we should drop the topic. Anyway, there is a part 4 now with important stuff - like diamond rebates!

Isn't the full moon lovely tonight?

Yes, it is, Louise. As one frog said to the other frog: "It becomes you, too".

Now let's go to Part 4: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/806151/