This is my friend's house-

I've always admired your work arounds to potentially touchy situations. Leaving the deed to others while they're off having a nice home cooked meal is genius.

Yuph! I've bought several Clematis from both Chalk Hill Nursery (in CA) and Brushwood Nursery (in NJ). They are both very good Clematis Nurseries.

Yes, since I didn't know the growing zone prior to posting about Clematis Montana's, they are only rated to growing zone 6. You may want to consider other types of hardier Clematis, but they won't grow as big as the Montana's. However, they'll definitely make up for this by blooming twice during a growing season and you'll have more choices of colors to choose from.

If the Clematis Montana varieties are to tender for your friend's growing zone, then I would suggest Clematis viticellas. They bloom in late Summer/early Fall. I suggest the viticellas because they are "wilt resistant" and won't die off from this fungal disease. Type III or "C" Clematis tend to be much hardier than type II's or "B" ones.

http://www.homeofclematis.net/variety.htm

Tips for growing Clematis
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/grow_clematis.php

Oh my goodness!! The C. montana Broughton Star is incredible! http://www.homeofclematis.net/broughton.html Boy oh boy, gotta get me one of those!

In looking at that list, in addition to my montana Grandiflora I also have a Mme. Le Coultre, a 'Henryi', The President, Will Goodwin, and I think I actually have a Ramone. I might want to ask you to identify what I have for me for sure as I've lost the tags on most of them. For me (I'm in the same zone as him) what do you think of C.alpina Frankie, Opaline, and C. viticella Betty Corning? Love the shape of the flowers. For him, what do you think of C. viticella Alba Luxurians, viticella Polish Spirit, C. tangutica Gravetye, and C. serratafolia?

C. montana Broughton Star is a gorgeous Montana variety.

However, please be aware that "all Montana's will have severe frost damage when minimum temperatures fall below 0 to -10F (-12 to -18C). The plants will probably survive, however, the tops will be burnt off and the plants will not bloom." Be aware of your growing zone!!!

"Pruning group A": This means that it is an early Spring flowering variety and it does not have to be pruned.

"Mme. Le Coultre, a 'Henryi', The President, Will Goodwin, and I think I actually have a Ramona" are all Group "B" or Type "2" Clematis.

Type 2 or "B" pruning group, bloom in early to mid Summer. They require light pruning and you may get a smaller flush later in the growing season. However, Type 2 or "B" group are finicky! They are much more prone to Clematis Wilt, that is why I did not suggest them. Personally, I love "Henryi" and "Ramona", both of which are growing in my garden. However, it did take 3+ years before I got a good flush of flowers on "Henryi".

This is "Henryi".


This message was edited Dec 9, 2007 2:23 PM

Please check PlantFiles because many of the ones you are thinking about have been entered into the database. Plus, you will get input from gardeners who are growing these plants in various zones.

This is "Ramona".

I'll take some photos and start matching them up. I prettymuch listed out every one I think I have and that's going by memory. If I am not mistaken, the C. montana Grandiflora is by far my largest and most sprawling clematis while the Ramona seems to be struggling to survive. Maybe I should try to move that into a more protected site.

Nice picture of the Henryi. I'm pretty sure that's for sure one I have based on your photograph. Mine does a nice job of blooming for me. Very pretty plant.

what do you think of C.alpina Frankie, Opaline, and C. viticella Betty Corning? Love the shape of the flowers. For him, what do you think of C. viticella Alba Luxurians, viticella Polish Spirit, C. tangutica Gravetye, and C. serratafolia?

C.alpina, "Frankie": Is a good Spring blooming Clematis. It is in Group A or "1" and does not need any pruning.

C. viticella "Alba Luxurians": "Viticella type. White flowers with green-tipped tepals and a pale green bar on the reverse. The amount of green depends on the amount of sunlight the flowers get - a lot of sun will result in less green colouring. Very deep purple anthers."

C. viticella "Betty Corning": Is an excellent choice! A lovely shape, color, plus it grows very large. It is a viticella, so it has very good disease resistance!! This Clematis blooms in late Summer/early Fall. It is pruning Group C or "3", which requires a hard prune.

C.. viticella Polish Spirit": Is another excellent selection! "Deep purple-blue flowers with a slight purple-red bar. Deep red anthers. Considered easy to grow and ideal for beginners".

C. texensis "Gravetye Beauty":"Small to medium, elongated, bell-shaped, red flowers ageing to pink. Red anthers on cream filaments." Hard prune in group "3" or "C".

C. C. serratafolia:"Small pale lemon-yellow nodding flowers with a strong lemon fragrance. Flowers July-October" Hard prune in group "3" or "C".

All information was copied from Clematis on the Web. http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/index.cfm

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, neat site! Thank you very much. I would have never found that on my own!

Thanks Lauren. I've had problems with "Ramona" also. This Clematis is also a Group 2 or "B", but I don't find it as prolific as "Henryi".

If you are looking for another white Clematis that performs well, you might want to consider "John Huxtable". Gardeners here at DG rave about this one! http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=448

It's difficult to accurately match pictures of Clematis because there are so many factors. The best way of trying to match the thousands of Clematis is at this website. Put as much information into the "search" feature at Clematis on the Web as possible. This is the best location to get information and accurate pictures of all the different varieties of Clematis. http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemlistsearch.cfm

You're very welcome! "Clematis on the Web" is THE favorite website for us "Clematis addicts"! :~)

I like the John Huxtable very well. I do have the ability to import and export but would really prefer to buy from someplace in the US to avoid the plant getting hung up. Any suggestions? I can't afford to get addicted. I've only got three more spaces for clematis and possibly a 4th of the Ramona doesn't make it over winter. I sort of felt it wasn't long for this world last year but plants do occasionally surprise me so we'll see.

Another good website. I'll just add this thread to my personal blog thing under instructionals for clematis selections so next spring when I go to order, I won't lose the information in here for me or for Zach. I might just order with him from which ever online nursery has the most of what we collectively want. I know he's buying at least two for trellises and I know he's going to buy a few for his chain link fench.

Morning Glories perhaps on the backyard fence to climb up on.

Rudbeckias in the front for summer color.

Goodluck.
r30

Chalk Hill Clematis Nursery: http://www.chalkhillclematis.com/

Completely Clematis Nursery: http://www.clematisnursery.com/default.aspx

Donahue's Greenhouses: Be careful to only consider the Clematis that are in 1 gallon containers. Otherwise, their root systems are small and need to be grown out for at least 1 season. http://www.donahuesclematis.com/gallon.html

Garden Crossings: http://www.gardencrossings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/home.home/index.htm

Joy Creek Nursery: http://www.joycreek.com/

Silver Star Vinery: http://www.silverstarvinery.com/

Disclaimer: I take no responsibility if anyone becomes addicted to these beautiful flowering vines!!!

Rudbeckia is a real nice suggestion.

(sigh) I already added this thread to my journal area under instructional threads. I have a question for you- I have a mailbox that looks kind of nekkid. Anyway to get one of these trained up and around a mailbox? And I also have this area by my rain barrels that looks kind of hokey. I was wondering if I could dress up that area a little bit by somehow getting a clematis to go up a gutter. Have you ever done that? I bet that would look nice.

Gutter trellis: Here you go! Plus, it's on sale!!! http://www.collectionsetc.com/Item53173.aspx

Thanks... I think ;) Unfortunately you got me thinking because I really like that idea of a gutter trellis and thinking normally separates me from my money. This is not good. Several of the clematis you posted links to extend 25'. This would be a good length for me and would certainly add some visual interest going on up. My downspouts are all right around 25' down from the edge of the roof to the ground because some of our ceilings on the first floor are 14' while some are around 12' and all on the second floor are around 10'. When we built the house we are in, we did not go with standard ceiling heights to increase the feeling of space I guess. Anyway, our roof downspouts are now a lot longer than most other people who have a 2-story home because of our ceiling heights and I keep looking at those ugly down spouts (particularly one in front that sticks out like a sore thumb) and they have been eating at me for a very long time.

What do you think of stackable gutter trellises?
http://www.simplegardens.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=149
Looks as if I would need about 10 stackables for the sore thumb down spout and only one set by the mailbox.

Lauren, I don't know why what you picked out wouldn't work. It will take a while for the clematis to climb that whole distance. I'm so broke I'd have had to settle for making one out of cattle panels or something else I could cut and shape. While that would look fine once it's COVERED, your's will be attractive from the start.

I sent the link to my husband. My thoughts were that although 2 or 3 might be able to stack nicely, I would be concerned about stacking 9 or 10 and having the tower come tumbling down once the plant established itself and had some weight to it. He said I had a valid point and to order a few and we could take a look at them if somebody else didn't know the answer. He said if they didn't look capable of supporting any significant weight, we could toss one by the mailbox and find someplace else for the other. He really liked the idea. He also likes clematis and his favorite is the one I have called President.

The stackable gutter trellises would work great!

Good, I'm going for it. I never did like the look of that one gutter out front. It's bothered me for years and I couldn't help but think that sooner or later, something would come along to dress it up. Yhe stackables get me up to where I want to be and I can add them as the plant grows so they don't look out of place. Only thing I need to do is get an exact measurement to determine how many to purchase. The last thing in the world I need is to get a plant established and have it reach for the sky only for the product to be discontinued and me sitting there with it half way up an no where else to crawl.

Really neat find there Shirley. I had no idea such a thing as a gutter trellis existed.

Equil, let us know how the stackable gutter trellises are after you purchase them . I definitely need to hide a gutter near the front of the house.
Everything I think of for your friends garden seems to require moist soil or some shade and it looks like he has a really sunny spot.
I'm sure he would like ink berry (Ilex glabra) along that long street side stretch, it's evergreen and easy to maintain, looks like it would fit right in with the manicured look of his neighbors yard. Mine is not in moist soil but I have clay soil so I'm not sure. If it worked you could add Fothergilla (white fragrant early blooms ) and Clethera (white fragrant latter blooms).
In the back for small trees you could plant Witch Hazel and Serviceberry in front of a taller evergreen for a grouping of three in the backyard n the southeast corner where the Prunus is.

The photo shows a good variety of purples and whites in the autumn. The Clethera "Hummingbird" is the white froth at the left and behind you can just see the white bottle brush blooms of Heuchera "Autumn Bride". There are 2 Ilex glabra blending in with the purple blooms of aster and purple hardy geranium "Jolly Bee". The heuchera in front with the silver markings with the variegated leaved iris is "Green Spice". At the back of the group you can just see the leaves of a fothergilla. This is more a triangle garden bed rather then the hedge line you would want for the more formal look.
I hope this helps with the garden design.

Your yard is always one of the best. I never tire looking at it. Your ideas parallel what some of mine were for him. Ilex glabra would work well mixed in with the conifers.

I'm ordering a bunch of the stackables this coming spring. I've got to get outside and get a ladder and measure up. That won't be happening any time soon. Yes, these gutter trellises that Shirley came up with are really neat. Never knew such a product was out there. Pretty wild. Makes you wonder what else is out there.

Lauren, your pocket book is better off NOT knowing! LOL

Pat, I don't work anymore ;) I don't do bills anymore so I give them to my husband! Come to think of it, I also don't do heights anymore so it's going to have to be him who climbs up that extension ladder to get the measurements. I order, he pays. Seems fair to me. I'm not into jewelry or fancy clothes or designer anything so I'd consider myself low maintenance comparatively speaking. What's a few stackable gutter trellises when one's wife isn't a clothes or jewelry horse, isn't into day spas, and not really into much other than plants for around the house? I'll have to remember to tell him how lucky he is to have a wife who isn't costly to maintain as he's opening up his pocket book to pay for these stackables. Must admit he liked them very much though but then he likes the clematis too so that thwarts any under the breath grumbling.

So tell me, have you found anything out there that looks interesting like the gutter trellises? You have to admit that was a good find. Probably the best find for me for the year '07 as I think it's going to solve a problem that has been eating at me for years.

A magazine called "Solutions" is full of "must have things" you never knew you needed or that existed! LOL It does have some great little storage helps etc, I really like the mag. Solutions.com . They don't have a lot of "garden" stuff but some of what they have I have really liked.

I haven't subscribed to a magazine in a long time. I'll pick one up the next time I'm at the grocery store and check it out. Never heard of that magazine before.

Oops~ I misspoke, catalogue, not magazine! The first link is to a program that featured building a gutter trellis out of fencing.

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_diseases_pests_insects/article/0,1785,HGTV_3580_1396857,00.html

http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=10442&cat=2,33286&ap=1

http://www.simplegardens.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=149

http://marketplace.hgtv.com/Product.aspx?Lid=2908-7138&From=iFP

I think I like the lighter weight ones that can be permanently attached that you found at your second link above better than the ones I found that use cable ties to attach. I still like the ones I found for the mail box though.

sempervirens: Beautiful garden! It looks so lovely and a wonderful place to relax with a nice glass of ice tea on a hot Summer's day. I also grow Clethra in my garden. It's a wonderful shrub, which mine blooms in late August/early September.

Lauren: Yes, gutter trellises really come in handy. I have the ones from Lee Valley, http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=10442&cat=2,33286&ap=1 Thanks for providing the link, psychw2. My brain wasn't remembering where I had purchased mine from.....another senior moment! Sigh!!

Here's a picture of Clematis, texensis, "Lady Bird Johnson" climbing up one of the gutter trellises that I surrounded my mail box post with. Sorry that you can't see the actual gutter trellis, but I was focusing on the beautiful Clematis blooms. I'll keeping searching to see if I can find a photo showing the trellis.

Shirley, you have some wonderful Clematis, that Lady Bird Johnson is so cool! I'd love to see some pictures that are of more of the "whole garden", so I can see the layout.

Thanks pysch2. For some reason I tend to focus in to my plants, but I'll search for some larger overviews from my garden.

You can see a little bit of the trellis on the ground at the base of C. "Lady Bird Johnson".

I also used the gutter trellises to surround the support posts of our two story deck. Again, I focused on C. "Victoria", not on the trellis. I guess people always want to see the beautiful flowers, instead of the support system. Sorry about that. I can't go outside at the moment to take a picture because it's raining...maybe tomorrow.

One thing to keep in mind when using the gutter trellises is to choose a vine that will not overwhelm the support system. By that I mean that the vine is not overly aggressive and would not pull down the trellis/gutter with its weight.

Viburnum, Korean Spice Bush in bloom.

Another suggestion is Japanese Beautyberry. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/40132/

I'm going to be using a lot of these gutter trellises. I really like them and thought of a few other places they could be used. Really exciting product. I'll just run by which ever clematis I want to run up them before I order.

The one plant I bought Zach as a gift was an American Beautyberry. He really loves it and planted it right outside the door from his garage to his back yard so he can see it from his kitchen window. I love Beautyberry.

Viburnums are a must in any landscape. I particularly like Viburnum dentatum because of the dark purplish/navy berries in fall.

Ha ha ha! I'm getting more out of this thread than my friend is!

Glad you like the gutter trellises. They really come in handy when growing vines up a mailbox post, rain gutter or tree. I'm sure there are probably dozens of more uses for them! Plus, they are very affordable and you can get lots of them!

I'm in total agreement with you on the American Beautyberry tree, plus the very versatile Viburnums. I have several different varieties of them. I can't get JUST 1!!!

Sigh.... I have SO MANY plant addictions! :~)

Virburnum, "Newport"

Yup, gutter trellises are a hit!

I agree with you on viburnums. I hate to do this to you since you have admitted to having a problem but have you ever found your way to Classic Viburnums?

Thanks Equil and Shirley for the garden compliment. Lovely flower photos Shirley.
Equil, It is like bringing coals to Newcastle offering suggestions to you for plants since you were the one who responded and advised on native plant selections on my very first post on DG. I do have a serious purple and white color theme going and I recall you mentioning your friend wanted a purple, yellow and white garden?

Baptisia is a great plant that grows to shrub size and it comes in all three of your desired colors. If you google Baptisia there is a good article with pictures of all the varieties under Baptisia - Revenge of the Redneck Lupines by Tony Avent from Plantsdelight. I seriously love this plant and am trying to find a spot for a yellow since I only have the purple flowered B. australis and the white B. alba. Since it is herbaceous and doesn't reappear until late spring you can do a yellow flowered spring bulb under planting among a white or purple flowered ground cover of phlox subulata. I have the Baptisia with native grasses and drifts of Penstemon digitalis. You could just place them with the evergreen shrub border.The grasses are probably too messy looking for your friend.The Penstemon would work nicely with the white Baptisia since they both bloom later than the australis.
What conifers are you suggesting?

Native plants I can do well and I know most of the good sources for them. Baptisia is sometimes available at big box stores and I think it's the classic purple. Me, I have all three here. He'd like the purple. Yes; he wants a purple, yellow, and white scheme. He had considered red but found out a lot of people don't like the color red so thought he'd play it safe with the white. The conifers he'll probably go with are the ones suggested above plus anything that is more compact. I did explain to him why he needs to go with a mix as opposed to buying all the same thing and he said that made sense.

Here's the deal which I've hesitated sharing- Unfortunately we have an elderly person here who thinks what nurseries charge for plants is robbery, could care less whether a plant is native or not as long as the price is right, doesn't want to drive far too have to buy anything because of the cost of gas, doesn't believe in credit cards so mail order is out, hangs around a senior center listening to gardeners whining about invasive and weedy plants that create a lot of work and knows he doesn't want any of those but doesn't quite know what those are, who really wants a little curb appeal so that when he passes his house will sell faster so that his 5 sons are at each other's throats less. He loves his sons and his DILs very much and wants them all to continue being "brotherly" after he passes if you know what I mean. He truly does want to do something and will "dress up his place" but what is motivating him is very different than what motivates you and me.

Basically, I'm dealing with my Dad all over again. Only difference is that for my Dad I just buy the plants and change prices on the tags so he doesn't have a "grabber". Let's say I buy a nice spice bush for $49.00. All I simply do is cross out the price and write the word sale or 50% off plus $25 in blue then I cross out the $25 and write $10 in red or I use stickers I buy and just flat out add a price he can live with. My brothers and my SILs have my list of plants I want or need for his yard and buy for him too and use my labeling system. My Dad's yard is in pretty good shape not to mention he has a lady friend who is an environmentalist and everything she buys for him is native save the hostas she divides and transplants over there. She bought him all of his red buds and they look so nice over there.

Here's where I went wrong. Zach saw a really nice B&B hydrangea in the back seat of my car once that was on its way to my Dad's house. I had done my sticker thing to it. He wanted to know where I got that plant for that price so he could buy a few for himself. I had to tell him the truth so he didn't drive to that nursery expecting to buy 3 for $75 instead of for $225. Needless to say, one of the first statements out of his mouth before he asked for help was that he would go with me to buy his plants or by himself so there would be no game playing with tags by me or his DIL.

He's truly a sweet and gentle man but like many people well over the age of 65 he is living on a fixed income so he is not in a position to add shutters or a new railing or many of the other wonderful suggestions listed above.

Can we say design on a dime? I'm not too good at design on a dime and I'm not too good at integrating readily available plants from local big box stores into a landscape.