This is my friend's house-

Sorry about that- Garlon 4 is an herbicide. Active ingredient is Triclopyr. It disrupts the growth process within a plant.

ARGH! Nasty, nasty, nasty!

Lesser of the evils and he knows the Garlon 4 works because I've used it on quite a few Tree of Heaven plants they have cropping up all over there that create lots of work for him and everyone else by dumping (and I do literally mean dumping) thousands of seeds everywhere that pop up over night. Nobody likes the seeds of those things. That tree would be his first experience with a weed that wasn't a dandelion. Ever since having to deal with the Tree of Heaven seedlings, his ears perk up when he hears the word "weedy" used in association with a plant.

God, it would take 5 minutes with a chainsaw..............

I was planning on using mine Thought being you use the chainsaw first to take it down to about 18" and then you paint the stump with the Garlon 4 and place a large ziplock baggie over it to keep critters such as chipmunks and birds out of it. If it doesn't sucker up after a while, you can take the chainsaw and bring it down level to the ground. Not a good idea to start spraying Garlon 4 around. You might end up looking like the surface of Mars.

Clematis would do great on his chain link fence! They would add both beauty and vertical height will hiding the fence. Clematis come in the colors that he likes, white, lavender, purple, violet and yellow. Plus, there are Clematis for all types of growing conditions. Just remember that the lighter colored Clematis are perfect for growing in partly shady conditions, so that the sun does not bleach out their delicate color. The darker colored Clematis do best in full sun. If you need more help in planting & growing this gorgeous vine, just hop over to the Clematis forum.

No, no, no Mars, you'll kill the petunias! grin

Sweet Autumn Clematis grows like CRAZY!!! It is a vigorous grower and will bloom once in September and be literally covered in sweet smelling small white flowers. I posted a picture of mine a while back. It grew up the 6 foot chain link fence, along two sides, over the section of white picket fence and up and over the arch! Needless to say I did not understand I should have been PRUNING it!!! That was another house, another life time ago. I have one now, a little start.

With a ratio of 10 women to 1 man, no wonder the poor guy is scared!!!

I try to make it a habit of never working harder on a project than the person who "owns" the project.

Ah ha! Clematis will work! Good! Even I see those for sale everywhere so they will be easy for him to pick up. I didn't know that light colored clematis would fade out if planted in full sun. I've got a few of these plants. I like them well enough.

Say Pat, gotta link to that Sweet Autumn Clematis on steroids from your old house photo you posted somehwere?

I don't know that the ratio is as high as 10 to 1 but it's got to be up there as there are considerably more women than men over there and many of the women are overly competitive shall we say. This is one of the reasons why my own Dad won't go back to senior centers even to play cards or pool with other men which is something he really likes to do. He went to a few activities about a year ago and he's still got women bringing over baked goods and whole meals to this day and he doesn't know how to politely tell them he's not interested. I told him to be blunt but he is from a different generation than me and can't bring himself to do that. He used to answer the door all the time but he has told me that he has been intentionally parking his car in the garage, pulling down the blinds, and weathering out the storm inside by taking a nap and not answering the door or phone. I feel bad for the men. They are so out numbered so they stay home like my Dad or go and draw a line in the sand like Zach has done.

I don't mind being a facilitator by getting help for him here, digging up hostas by me, taking down a tree by him, or going shopping with him. He's a personal friend. Bumping out the flower bed will be fun and I've got to bump out a few more over here by me too so if it is timed properly, we can unload his sod at the same time we unload ours. I'm not going to be the one buying or planting his plants, he has money and is able bodied and well capable of doing that himself. He got the Beautyberry in the ground just fine and that had a substantial root ball. Hmmm, maybe I'll get him to come over to do some digging for me in exchange for getting the names of plants from all of you! Now there's an idea. Make him work for his information!

Excellent idea, a man of his generation would think that would a good deal, I'm sure. I love the beautyberry. I have cuttings growing from one of the gals in my MG class. They were one of the plants suggested in our native plants class. And the gal that taught the class was terrific and really knew her stuff.

Jumping back in here, I'd start the hostas about 6 ft back from anywhere around that fence. Against the fence (3 ft back) he HAS to have some mixed flowering shrubs, esp. behind the garage. Flowering shrubs give you the most "bang for your buck" in landscaping: FAST growth plus flowers. He needs forsythia, lilacs, and rhododendrons for spring color; hydrangea, butterfly bush (buddliea)-sp?), calycanthus, and those aforementioned roses for summer-into-fall blooms. All of the above come in colors that are "masculine" (how 'bout the 'Nikko Blue' Hydrangea?! Or the Buddliea 'Black Knight'!) everything listed here grows fast, fast, fast, creating beauty, blooms, and shade and privacy for his property. Someone will have to keep the forsythia in check every few years, but just so it doesn't crowd out other plants- but no hard pruning.

The back of that garage is the biggest groaner for me. I think he should center the largest rhododendron he can find along the foundation; that will interrupt that huge blank wall. to either side, it would be beautiful with climbing roses on trellises to either side. The plant more flowering shrubs along the "bondage" fence! If he adds another large rhodo. in from of the overpruned evergreen, the lower bare branches will be hidden.

Since plants are expensive and gardening itself a chore (to him), I'd think he's be willing to "take one for the team" w/ those ladies from the garden club!

Calycanthus- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetshrub
We had one in our herbaceous border growing up. The scent is to die for.
I also forgot to add Hibiscus 'rose of sharon' type. They grow more slowly, but they have a tidy habit as well as flowers that are blooming when not much else is going on (August). A stand of some white birch trees would look lovely as well.

What I'm suggesting is mixed shrubs everywhere along the fence and foundation (as much as is practical), then planting lower growing perennials in front of them. Using the placement of the shrubs, you can create little pockets here and there (garden "rooms") to add hardscape features to: paths, birdbaths, bird houses/feeders, gazing balls). My favorite hardscaping item is rock- lots of them- but I'm from New England and can't move a shovel w/o hitting granite.

No, no, no!!!! Sorry psychw2, I'm going to have to nixed your suggestion of Sweet Autumn Clematis because it is a THUG!!! Please read the reviews that it has gotten in Plantfiles. Yes, it will cover the bare chain link fence....and then disperse its seedlings everywhere it wants to in the garden. It will take over the fence, cover the garage, and if you let it, this thug will climb to the roof of the house!!! This is NOT a Clematis to grow in your garden!!!!

Instead, I would suggest several Clematis Montana varieties, some that are fragrant, that will easily grow 25-30ft and cover the fence in beautiful colors of pink, rose, or white. Yes, Montana's grow very large, but at least they are not thugs!

Lauren, from growing different varieties of Clematis for years in my garden, it is a known "rule of thumb" to grow the lighter varieties in part shade and the darker ones in the sun. The sun will bleach out the delicate colors, but intensify the dark ones.

NOTE: Please make sure you select Clematis that are mature enough to be planted in the garden. Again, the rule is to make sure that you can see the Clematis roots poking out of a 1 gallon container. Then you know it's large enough to survive in a garden. Anything smaller should not be planted until it is big enough. That's why a lot of gardeners don't succeed with Clematis.

Dig a generous hole of 18-24" deep. Lay the Clematis at a 45 degree angle in the hole, which will allow the Clematis to develop a substantial root system. Back fill the hole with compost, bone meal (for the roots), good soil and then mulch well. Try to keep the mulch from touching the Clematis vines, so as not to encourage fungal disease. Wait to feed until late Spring, when it is about to burst into growth and then once again after it blooms. You can use any good Rose fertilizer when growing Clematis. That's why Clematis & Roses are a perfect match!

Remember the old addage: "The 1st year they sleep. The 2nd year the creep. The 3rd year they leap". It is very important to be patient with Clematis, but they will reward you with their gorgeous blossoms and (some) fragrant scents, depending on the variety.

Sweet Autumn Clematis climbing my 'Sky Rocket' Junipers.

'Sweet Autumn' Clematis climbing the Holly Tree. Can you even see the tree???

Enough said!!!

Actually, I prefer mixed borders. Lose one plant after a few years in a row of same species shrubs or trees that were all planted at the same time and were all developmentally in about the same phase and an entire area of one's landscape can look completely out of whack. Alternating species is best. That way if one falls to a disease 5 years down the road, it's not that difficult to replace it.

He never uses his back yard during cold weather so deciduous shrubs would be perfectly fine with hostas in front of them. I've got about 100 hostas that are in need of being divided that are planted around an out building by me so I can definitely take care of any need he may have for hostas. Calycanthus is a favorite of mine and The Possibility Place does carry them. The Possibility Place also carries some nice Viburnum which were previously suggested and they additionally have some hydrangeas. Most of their plants are well rooted and go for about $25 - $30 a piece so that will work.

His concrete patio directly behind the house and in front of the garage is the area where he could probably use some privacy in the form of evergreens and the 'Green Emerald' was already suggested. May need to poke around for a few more evergreens that are more compact in formation for the area the other evergreens would be planted or there is the possibility of tossing a plant such as Witch Hazel on the table which would be excellent companion planted with an evergreen and it blooms yellow. Come to think of it, there's also a Picea glauca 'Jeans Dilly', Abies concolor 'Charming Chub', and a Thuja occidentalis 'Skogholm' out there that supposedly are all dwarf conifers. I wonder how big they really get. The Abies concolor 'Charming Chub' might actually be too small.

I must admit, he wouldn't like seedlings of anything popping up. The 'Sweet Autumn' Clematis is a beauty though, that's for sure. He still likes her idea of a Clematis though so let's pick a few white C. montana cultivars for his chain link fence.

Didn't realize I've been planting my Clematis improperly. Oops, I'll try to do it right for myself the next time I plant one which will be next spring sometime because one of mine went to plant heaven and will need to be replaced.

Another shrub possibility that just popped into my head would be the Northern Northern Hi-Lights Azalea introductions from MN I believe. Those are hardy here and I think they are available in a yellow as well as a white.

Ya know, the shrub information is really helping me plan to fill in some of my neked spots too. I'm taking notes. Just Keep on a talkin'.
Equi, I do hope you take pictures when all the shrubs are in place and the perennials bloom. .

I guess I would say it's a matter of taste in some cases. It is not uncommon for me to really like a plant that others consider a thug. In the 7 years I had the Sweet Autumn, I only dug up one volunteer. SA did exactly what I wanted it to do, cover the 6 foot chain link fence and give me privacy inside for when I sat and feed my fish etc. When SA stretched into somewhere I didn't want it, I simply pulled it back and cut it off.

I had a total of six varieties of Clematis and SA was my favorite.

It will be fun to see what you and your friend decide for the final choices. A mixed group of flowers shrubs sounds beautiful. Can't wait to see it!

I suspect he will probably go for the trellises & lattice, a few conifers, the two specimen trees (one to replace the thing with angel wings out front and one to replace the infested prunus thing out back), the Kentucky Wisteria, some clematis for the fence, a start on some decisuous shrubs, the one white rose rambing rose (I'll probably buy that for him as a gift), the hostas, and a handful of perennials you people suggested for up front. I think the perennials are going to be a hit or miss, he can take the list in to Home Depot and ask them what they have and if they have it... it will get planted and if they don't it won't. Best to do this kind of thing in phases anyway. The two trees, the conifers, and the shrubs are going to be a big bite in the pocket book. It's been a long time since anything was bought and it was his wife who did the buying so he's not in sync with the cost of plants. He's going to be in sticker shock. I have been telling him ball park prices but I suspect he's going to want to go with a B&B for out front as well as in the back so that will eat up a lot of money. I need to talk to him about opting for the Ball and burlap specimen trees... the bare rooted trees cost hundreds of dollars less and catch up in size to the B&B's within a few years anyway so why spend the money? The following year he could fill in with more shrubs and a lot more perennials and then just add as he sees fit after that.

Yes, I will take photos!

Some time in the near future, I will draw out his yard including everything that is existing and will show the orientation and begin to plug in what he wants. He said the border out front could be bumped out and that would look nice.

Here are a list of Clematis Montana's to consider. http://store.chalkhillclematis.com/group-montana.html

"Sweet Autumn" Clematis becomes more invasive the warmer the growing zone. Gardeners in colder growing zones tend to have less of a problem with seedlings popping up around their gardens.

If you like the look and fragrance of "Sweet Autumn", there are Clematis Montanas that are similar, but not invasive.

http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/clematis-montana-brewster-p-40.html
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/clematis-montana-grandiflora-p-42.html
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/clematis-montana-mayleen-p-212.html
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/clematis-montana-rubens-p-44.html

Have you ever ordered a Clematis from that nursery before?

The Montana's are beautiful but only zone 6 to 9. I understand your friend is zone 5.

Probably part of the reason I had so little problem with mine is it was planted in a NARROW but deep raised flower bed surrounded by grass on one side, cement on the other. I did not mind pruning it back a little as maintance any time it traveled a little too far. It was also heavily planted beneath it since they like to keep their feet in the shade, their head in the sun.

Another thug is Oriental Bittersweet. I think it's illegal to sell now. I can't get rid of the stuff. The berries are poisonous as well.

I had a nightmare of a time with a Wisteria; it can get out of control and it chokes trees. Grow with care! It can get nasty.

Some self-sowers are great! I planted Lunaria (purple "Silver Dollar" or "Honesty" plant), which selfs all over, and it's welcome to me- a nice flash of purple, then the beautiful "silver dollars" that dry beautifully (if it's mowed, it doesn't grow). Also, Malva (hollyhock) species self sow and come true to the original color; also welcome and gorgeous.

Hostas DO self sow as well- and all over the lawn, mowed or not! If he doesn't want to deal with hosta "volunteers", he can simply pull off any seed pods that may develop. Then he can sell them on ebay...

I have lots of seeds of hosta, hibiscus, malva (in peach and dark reddish purple) that I'd happily send your way!

Oriental Bittersweet is real bad. Two vines that are really popular that are darn near as nasty as the Oriental Bittersweet are Lemon Lace Vine and Silver Lace Vine. Asian Wisteria is the beast that so many people are struggling with. Not native Kentucky Wisteria. And that Wisteria floribunda that was brought to this country from Japan is confusing to people who think it is comes from Florida. You have no idea how many people plant that one not realizing it is an Asian Wisteria. Seriously, Wisteria can be highly invasive but you're porbably going to find your problem plants are Wisteria sinensis or one of its cultivars. There are no documented reports anywhere of the North American native Wisteria (Wisteria macrostachya) being invasive let alone a thug.

I've got a big honker Clematis montana Grandiflora growing here on the east side of my house that is on a trellis and it has to be about 5 years old now. I went back to the listings and it does say that one is the hardiest. Now, I'm nervous about suggesting one to him because the location where mine is planted is protected. Maybe back to the one he liked on the Clematis because both he and I are zone 5?

Hostas do set seed. Haven't seen a volunteer anywhere on my property yet but that definitely doesn't mean they aren't out there on somebody else's property. The birds don't seem to eat the seed at all so now you've got me wondering.

Jax, he really likes the hostas. I can give him 20 whole plants but all of mine are Patriot, Fire and Ice, and other white and green hostas. It would be nice for him to have hostas other than green and white. It would be nice to have some seed of anything but white and green. I've been able to germinate hosta seed before. Speaking of which, you want any whole plants? I will have divisions next spring. I've easily got 100 plants to divide.

Are these in the shade hosta or will they tolerate some sun? I had envisioned this lovely bed of hostas under our elm tree, sigh. It's going to have to come down, borers got one side. I was playing MG and discovered the holes and started looking further. Just breaks my heart, but it a big tree and I'd rather not have that half in the kitchen with me. We're going to see if we can get #1 son to do some trimming on some of the upper branches, to make it easier to take down. I'd rather get in a pro to do the major work.
Now I have to decide what I want to put in to replace it. I was thinking about a black walnut, some of the new hybrids are very fast growers and provide lots of shade, but they don't play nice with ground plants. So maybe a maple, I'm still looking.

I currently have them planted around a small 1.5 story storage barn that looks like a mini house. I wanted something around the foundation to the storage barn and my MIL kept buying hostas for me so that's where they went. Then my Dad's lady friend had some hostas in her yard that were long overdo being divided, so she came over here and planted them in my yard. And then my Dad took a look at the hostas my Mom had planted before she passed and hired somebody to divide them and those ended up over here too. My cup over runneth with green and white hostas. Some are in part shade and some are in part sun. They seem to be happy or I wouldn't have to be dividing them.

I was speaking to a group of MGs once and was rather surprised at how many were uncomfortable suggesting gardeners plant black walnuts. Do not fear the Black Walnut. I'd go with a straight species Black Walnut for a multitude of reasons and second choice would probably be a straight species Sugar Maple. Go over to the Trees & Shrubs Forum and do a search for posts of all that you can plant under a Black Walnut and you will be pleasantly surprised. I have black walnuts planted here. Couldn't be happier. I haven't kept up with trees lately. Tell me more about the new hybrids please.

And about your infested Elm, have you ever considered leaving it be? It's not dead yet and even after it dies the root structure should hold it erect for around 10 years before it topples. Snags are seriously lacking in our landscapes. If trees that die aren't anywhere near my home or another structure where they could do damage on the way down, I leave them be to come down naturally at which point they create much needed biomass for the soil. Our raptors (we have a day crew- hawks and a night crew- owls) use snags and woodpeckers and flickers love them too. Um um good, borer snacks!

I'm real leary since it's so close to the house. And it is a big sucker. One of the main limbs is deader than a doornail. I may talk to my ext agent who is also an arboristist. See what he thinks. I'd still like to get some that over growth out of the top side. Just in case of high winds again. I prefer my trees outside.
I have 2 black walnuts and love the things, they however, are starting to get tired. They were mature trees when we moved here and that was in 79. And had not been very well cared for. They started bearing about 10 years ago. So they are old trees. We do have enough room on that end of the yard to plant a few nut trees and will probably do so.
According to all the info I've read the new hybridized black walnuts will begin to bear in 3-5 years, which is a big change and they are more disease resistant. Some of the older varieties take 10 years and up before they bear. They're beautiful trees and I love the texture of the bark. I just planted 350 daffodils under them earlier this spring. I have some iris I want to put in as well, but ran out of time. Not sure I can do that now, or if I have the ambition. I've been setting up to winter sow and piddling with that stuff. I'm trying to force some daffodils and iris. I've not done that before so we shall see.

My dead Elms and my recently sent to heaven (hack n squirt) Norway Maple are all well over 100' away from the house. No way would I leave a dead tree close to my home for anything more than a few years. Must admit, deader than doornail limbs would be removed if within striking distance of my home.

I'd be interested in knowing the parentage of the hybrid black walnuts, got any links? One thing I know for sure, don't plant an American Fringe Tree anywhere in its zone. Fringe Trees don't like juglans.

FYI, American Hazelnut bears fruit within a few years and the nut is just the right size for many species of critters. Might be something to consider while you are establishing other fruiting plants.

Eq, I buy almost all my fruit and nut trees from Stark Brothers. They have excellent quality trees and have always been very helpful with questions about care. Caring for home garden fruit and nut trees organically can be a bit challenging, but it can be done.

I have a small hobby orchard on my property. About 30 fruiting trees plus an assortment of native nut trees laced elsewhere. I'll go look up their hybrids.

Many appear to be English Walnut cultivars not Black Walnut cultivars.

I love Stark Bros too but only for apples, pears, and peach trees. Check out these people-
http://www.oikostreecrops.com/store/aboutus.asp?cookiecheck=yes&

I think you will be a very happy woman once you check out what Oikos has. Also too, check out their Chestnut offerings based on blight resistant hybrids that are almost entirely American Chestnut DNA. To replace your Elm- try here and look at a Princeton or a Valley Forge-
http://www.botanyshop.com/ValleyForge.htm

I've planted these as replacements right near the straight species American elms that fell to DED and have NO problems.

The home I grew up in had English Walnut trees in the front yard, so did my grandparents property. The NEXT place my parents bought, they also planted English Walnuts. I really like the tree. One of the features I like is how the leaves fall pretty much all at once instead of dribbling leave clean up forever! I like the shape and texture of the tree.

I really like the tree too. Each has its own merits. Only reason why I mentioned it is because most people looking for a Black Walnut are not looking for an English Walnut or an English Walnut hybrid. Big difference between the two and unless you really look at the listing, it can get confusing.

Pat, you gotta check out some of the hydrangeas at The Botany Shop!

Thanks Eq, those elms are beautiful. I love the shape.....I like the regular walnut trees also. We only have one pecan but it's been producing bumper crops the last several years. I got to do a little more measuring.

I thought you would like those. What did you think of Oikos?

I'm sold. You're right, that just wowed me. And their prices are great.

For where you garden in VA, you can't go wrong with either of those nurseries. If you have any questions, call them on the phone. Doesn't matter whether you've bought hundreds of plants from them like I have or only one, they take time to make sure everyone's questions are answered to the best of their ability. I have to tell you I've never lost any of the bare roots they've sent me. Granted, I make sure they are watered until they are well established and I mulch them well but it is a good thing when one receives plants that break dormancy when planted as opposed to sitting there looking at a dead stick in the lawn. Same thing applies to their plants as was mentioned by Shirley1md, "The 1st year they sleep. The 2nd year the creep. The 3rd year they leap".

Well, it was bad enough I was think how I could convince the neighbors to try em too. Sneak planting a nut tree in someone elses yard, presents some logistical problems...........grin

Logistical problems??? Heck no, ya just do it the way we do it in my family! One sibling invites them to dinner, that leaves everybody else to do the deed!