Help-anyone interested in a Winter sowing Database at Dave's

pardalinum- Good comments regarding the deficiencies as pertain to the other data base.

distantkin- Let her go. You are a kind soul and there's no sense even attempting to reply to any correspondence that you find unsettling. I believe there may be more to this than meets the eye. Please consider forwarding all of her correspondences to you to dave or Terry and call it a day.

pupilpropogtr- I like your use of the words sowing in winter. Me thinks you are striking a chord, "wonder if the fear that ours will outgrow hers could be the reason". Anyone for a PropagationFiles with a... now how did pardalinum phrase that... "professional" polish to it... as opposed to a sowing in winter only data base ;)

Say folks, we can definitely do this on our own relying upon our collective personal experiences. I checked my notes and I have propagated over 500 species using an assortment of techniqes with the vast majority being successfull. Many trees and shrubs which people definitely have an interest in. I am one person. Multiply just me and the others who have personal experiences propagating in this thread by how ever many subscribers we have and I believe we have no reason what so ever to look anywhere else other than to our own subscribers for data.

Robbi, don't worry about it. You did a good thing and we all appreciate it. Obviously. I'm a member at GW too, and keep stressing that it doesn't belong to them exclusively. We'll put together a better and more accurate one. We'll be the envy of the web!!

You go girl!

Wow! can you imagine going to a forum anywhere for info only to follow the advice to total failure because someone was so paranoid they inserted false info!

I have known for years that there was resentment over the success of DG and that it has occasionally boiled over into an us against them type mess. How sad! I think I am still a member there... not certain... haven't been there in quite a while... I use the same screen name in both places and the last few times I tried to ask a question I received no responses even though the conversation was an active one. At the time I just thought it was a clique and left. Now I wonder if they thought I was a DG spy or was there to steal their ideas to advance DG somehow.

The fact is I am sure there are members there who are just as warm and friendly as those here and who have a lot of great information to share but choose to share it there instead of here. I just wish everyone could get past the us or them feelings. I go to the library and use a wide variety of reference books. I would like to be able to say the same of Garden forums and gardening web sites without feeling like I am either being disloyal to one or a spy to the other! Fortunately, I am not made to feel that way here! I can openly say the name of Gardenweb without being censored for it or mention that they have a great whatever without being flogged.

distantkin, I am truly sorry that you have been treated in such a repugnant manner. Please do not let it dampen your enthusiasm for this wonderful addition to DG.

Zany, I agree completely about the us and them. When I first started gardening a whopping four months ago, I happened upon their site first. Then I happened on DG. The difference was astonding and I never went back. Everyone who is still a member of GW is open about it here. There is no anomosity towards the poster who states such. I don't believe we at DG created this us/them environment, but vice versa. I have heard many times for other DGers who were sent to "disneyland" for mentioning DG. I have also visited other garden forums where I was free to talk about DG and no cool shoulders there. It seems to be exclusively with them. It is some what sad to watch a site self destruct because of a superiority complex.

I ran across this link on DG about a month ago and I believe it can pretty much sum up the horror stories people have gone through for NOTHING http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/395353/
And what is even more proof of acceptance is Dave allowed this.

I lurk at both forums, I won't be retuning to GW I don't appreciate the fact that anyone here was called a thief!!!

Robbi I would definitely forward any emails from Trudi, to Dave or Terri, that is uncalled for. It is obvious here, just from the other post what Dave's members are like!!!♥

I am looking forward to the Data Base here with all "TRUE" information.

Look here to see how Dave stood up for our web site!!
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wtrsow/msg1118301326241.html?43

I feel that all gardening techniques are meant to be shared regardless of the name given to it. "Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?" Of course it would. We human beings were actually born to be gardeners for His Glory in all His seasons.

WAY TO GO DAVE!you took being called a thief better than i would have

What an ugly, unfortunate situation.

I used to point people to their winter sowing database for information, but in view of the seemingly vicious nature of the ongoing attacks from them I can no longer do so in good conscience.

If they are concerned that the Propogation database at DG will outstrip theirs and become the tool of choice for gardeners, their actions up until now have virtually gauranteed such an outcome in my view.

Dave, you're a class act. Thank you for your attempt to set the record straight for us.

I'm not surprised by Trudi's attitude. She gave Dave a problem when we wanted to start the Wintersown Forum. Something about wintersowing being her word and her business. The sad part about it all is that many GW members that support Trudi don't get to see her entries here on DG since they don't subscribe. They only get one side of the story. I belonged to both. I know there are others that are still members on both sites. We get to make educated opinions based upon those entries.

That being said, I think we should go back to the fun of creating our database. It's not worth wasting energy on negativity.

I don't know the other site at all, but I agree with the above comments. You did good Robbi. Your motives were good, your idea was wonderful, and it will do nothing but help those of us who haven't tried it before. Don't stress. I have never understood why we can't all "just get along".

This is a great idea!

Will we also be able to make entries based simply on whether or not something has germinated for us? I keep track of genus/species/variety information and seed source, but I'm less good about remembering when I sowed and when it sprouted etc... although that's good info to have, and I'll try to do better about noting it! It might be still be good to have a flag simply to note whether or not a particular variety has "worked" for you with winter sowing methods -- like the zip code report in PF.

As a scholar I take the position that the world is made better when knowledge is shared - and not used as currency. As long as the data base is made available to the public, I think we should all aplaud all efforts to make this information available.

Anything else is just plain silly. :-)

I have been watching and reading this thread with interest but lurking..... basically cause I"m not sure I want to sow seeds in the winter. But am I reading right that the database on GW has misinformation deliberately put into it? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard! Now if I'm reading wrong, please don't jump down my throat. Just please tell me that the database here at DG isn't going to be like that. WHY would doing that benefit anyone????

I'm so confused :(

Janis

As I already mentioned I use both sites and like both. I will continue to visit both unless I'm kicked out of one or the other. Anyone can tell who I am on either site as my username is the same at both and I always sign my first name to the post. This friction is unfortunate but not my problem as I see it. I feel like I have garden friends at both places.

I do want to offer one thought to new wintersowers. While a database might be helpful as you get your toes wet, don't limit yourselves to wintersowing seeds listed in some database. Remember, those seeds only made it onto the list because somebody tried it at some time AND reported it to the database. I really pay little attention to it. I browse seed catalogues and follow forums and read garden books and see plants that I never heard of. Suddenly I find I can't live without it, have to try it.

The only database I really use a lot is my own. In my 2 years of wintersowing I have formed a database of my own. I begin by jotting information in a notebook as I sow and later form it into an Excel spreadsheet. Just a simple thing with seed name, date sown, if or when it germainated, A, B or perennial. Planting notes in another column with things like sun exposure and plant size. When I start sowing seeds this year if I'm trying one that failed last year I can look at my info and see when I sowed last year, and this year I'll try earlier or later. I often refer to Tom Clothier's site to see if that seed needs cold strat or some other particular condition for germination. This has worked well for me, and I am limited only by my imagination.

Looking at last years records I see that 60 of my 68 jugs germinated so it's working well for me. Be creative and have fun, try stuff that you like.

Karen

Dave fantastic job. I have never seen someone backpedal so fast in my life. Robbi, you have only done DG an even greater service. People who are members of both will be afraid to post there, as she may call the BIG DOGS in.

I suspect the nobody has deliberately inserted wrong information. Sometimes one technique will work in one area, but be less successful in other places.

Also, sometimes people jump to incorrect conclusions; I think we should assume that most gardeners (like most people in general) are decent folk. If some at GW are concerned it's because they really do mean well and presume that any DG data base will exclude those who cannot afford the subscription cost. I think Da Dave has made it clear that the information will be made freely available to the public.

Direct quote from Trudi on the site, Seandor. Sorry, for this is a shame and a sham.

"I have made deliberate mistakes in our database and I will continue to do so. If those show up in your database you have posters who don't care about copyright infringement and I will let you know about it. Everytime. I expect you will act professionally and remove the pirated information.."

So basically, if you are a member on one site and the other, like many, if you post results on both sites, she will call out the dogs. Lovely person.

I personally like people who call it sharing.....not stealing. For this reason I can only hope that members like trudi are rare and hard to find here at DG.
I thought gardening web sites were all about SHARING your knowledge and experience with other gardeners. So what if the same type of info ends up on both websites??? The more the merrier is my motto! This way you get twice the amount of info and meet new friends that may not frequent both sites.
The word "childish" came into play several times on GW...what I find childish is: "Our Database" "Thieves" and "steal our information".
This information is the public's not trudi's and who's to say she didn't "steal"(her word not mine) some of her info from poster who wintersow here at Dave's?
I find it ALL childish and since they act like children then maybe a stern motherly voice is needed.
"Everyone NEEDS to share nicely!!"
Sorry, couldn't resist and I feel much better now. I was useing my mother's booming voice for that sentence. LOL

The other doesn't sound like anything I want to be a member of. On the other hand, she is just one person. Surely everyone else in that group doesn't feel the same?

What a "sad" person to do such a thing. I also belong to both, but did realize until reading this thread, why I now think I was getting such poor response to some of my questions. I won't be using that site any time soon. For one thing DG "moves". This site is very active and the members by in large, very friendly and helpful. I guess it takes all kinds, sigh. Count me in on the database for " Pre-Spring seed sowing". God forbid, I should infringe on somebody's idea.
I gotta say, my jaw dropped when I read the above quote about misinformation. What is up with this gal? She's going to deliberately add mistakes, which will cause others to make mistakes thereby costing them time, money and effort, because it's her database? Sheesh! Gurl friend has some real "maturity issues" going on. Not to mention that most gardeners who are good gardeners will be delighted to share their experience and information. Ah, don't get it, sigh, how sad.

This is just an amazing thing that someone would put false information out there for people! I know I have read things on there many times, and being a newbie, I wouldn't know any better! I know Dave would never allow anything of this nature on his site, because he has a love of gardening, and assisting other's with theirs! I am so glad that the majority of the people here respond to your questions and are kind and generous enough to help you with it! Robbi, please do not get discouraged, you have a wonderful idea here that most are anxious to see up and running!

For those of you who have kept germination records in the past, it would be a huge help if you would share those in the database as we get started. (I know I'll be digging out my notes from a few years ago ;o)

And I've got a seedbox I *really* need to clean out, so I'll probably be doing some winter sowing after the holidays; I'll be happy to share my experiences once the new DB is up and running.

Hey dococat, if you have done wintersowing in the past, you should join the January wintersowing seeds swap! You might have seeds the rest of us could use! :-)

oh... you betcha!! i'd love to see a data base like that.

I just read the "dialog" in GW on this subject. Some serious I, ME, MY going on there, not to mention green-eyed monster! It's so stupid, each site has lots to contribute to gardening as a whole, but I don't really want to hang with a group that can't share correct information freely and gladly.

cat64129, thanks hun, I 'll check it out. I haven't got much right now, but I'll do what I can :)

I'm still going thru what seeds I have, trying to figure out what CAN be winter sown! :-) Looking forward to trying it this year!!!

I, too, had read the "false information" warning on GW, and for that reason have not even considered using any of the info there. I'm a newbie -- how would I know what was false? I sure don't need to be using bad info and then wondering why my efforts failed.

I haven't done any winter sowing yet, but plan to this year. Can't grow indoors. I have four cats who play "bat the flower pot around" game as well as the "dig in the potting soil" game. LOL. So, I have been making notes of info from the WS Forum here and will be definitely using the new DB.

This is going to be so exciting!

Cheers,

Karen

I've only winter stratified my seeds this past year and was very encouraged by all the gardening friends on Dave's. I'll be more than happy to share my data from my experience.

The disinformation I heard/read about was stuff like "echinea sowed 5/15/03, germinated 5/20/03, flowered 6/25/03', that even an idiot such as myself can see is not true. (For one thing, I made it up!) But in general I agree, the whole point of the WWW is to make more info available to more people, faster better and, one hopes, with fewer copyright issues.

xx, Carrie

Furthermore, I know this is not the party line, but reading this thread and the one on GW to which luvsgrtdnes so thoughtfully linked us is more entertaining than prime time TV!
xxx, Carrie

I too read that thread .... and while I found GW before I found Daves, I never felt "comfortable" over there.

I'd post pretty much the same question on both sites, only to have the GW one never get answered. Not all the forums were that way, a few of them were actually "warm" but a few others quite "cold".

So i came here and lurked a week or so before paying my $15, which was so worth the money spent.

I just finished reading it. who is "Ron"? Trudis husband?

i dont think so, i recall him being from MI.

Well, it seems to me that a mountain is being made of a molehill. Someone posted the link and I checked out their database several times before, just to get some ideas. But I'll be afraid to trust it anymore, if the data is being deliberately changed. I'll just ask people here and wait for our own to be created.
Hope it all blows over.

How long do you think it will take to get a database up? Should we start sending information to this thread, or will there be another thread just for that, or maybe a "draft" database where we can enter our winter seed sowing info? Questions, questions...

First I want to thank everyone for being so kind. I really appreciate it. All this has really upset me as I have always enjoyed gardening and shared EVERYTHING I have with others. This all came about because I had so many seeds I wanted to "plant out" as my grandmother calls it, and I wanted to share my results.
I have now gotten 4 Nasty letters from Trudi (and one very nice letter from a DGer that made me cry (o: Thanks!), a woman who claims not be upset with me, who has said I need to see a counselor and clergy, and has said I owe everyone here on DG and GW an apology. In Trudi's defence, I wrote a letter (as I said I would on this forum) telling Trudi how wonderful her work/site was. I DID say that we were interested in making a site "BASED" on hers but I also made it clear it was the IDEA of hers...as in writing down the plant and how it did in certain zones. I made it clear that we wanted something similar here at Dave's and would love it if she would join us. She has taken my word "Based" and is saying that I meant "copy". As we all know have a different format here on Dave's and that is not the case.
I have wanted to go lurk over there but was terrified to see what was said...I busied myself all morning trying to stay away (I was busy "planting out"5 different Columbines-LOL) when another wonderful DGer phoned and read to me all of the info at GW. I want to thank all who stepped up to the plate when I couldn't-you too Dave!
Anyway. I have decided that I will not go back, I will not respond to "the dark side" as I think I have a right to call it. My dear DGer friend has asked if she could and I told her to go ahead-but I am done. Dave gave some great advice when he said, "Lets have fun with this database and forget"...that all this mess happened. (edited here to add that this last half is my quote-so please NO ONE assume Dave said it)
Thanks again all and now
movin on.....

Robbi




This message was edited Nov 30, 2007 11:18 AM

Let's have fun with our database and forget that Trudi is even out there.

:)

dave

Good deal Robbi. Please don't be upset. Your idea was a very good one & your motives were pure. You have no reason to feel bad about anything.
And from what I've seen in here, there are more than enough DG'ers who can contribute to the database. We don't need any information or help from Trudis.

As soon as Dave gets the details figured out, I'm sure he'll let everyone know.