Rare Japanese Asagao

I'll move it inside and see how it does. TTYL

Dee

Domo arigato,

Thanks to those who sent us lollipops to give to the Japanese kids where I teach. We got lots to give out for Halloween. Also thanks to those who recently traded with us. If you haven`t received your package from us by now don`t worry because it will get to you by next week.

Gardener2005, Beth, Beckygardener, Ronnie, Gourd, Bluespiral, and Skimper. You guys are on my Xmas list.
It won`t be much but it will be rare.

thanks guys,

Dee

Dee - Oh goodie! Awesome! I'm excited to be included on the Xmas list! Actually, I am excited about all the new seeds I just received from you! We've had so much rain here lately, that I am going to wait for things to dry up a bit before I start growing any new seeds. But I can barely wait!!!

This message was edited Oct 12, 2007 4:58 PM

wow MGJapan I never realised that there were so many different species of morning glories before in my life. I would love to try some of the ones that are pink and white with like a deeper red spotched. the one that you said would be available.

James

Thank you Dee, wow, Xmas list ... I am with Becky and can hardly wait, I can barely wait to start these that you sent also... Becky, you lucky you... you get to start these now.

Gourd & Beckygardener,

You guys are welcome. Just a little something to add to your growing season.

Pensacolagarden that`s only the tip of the mountain regarding different species of morning glories.

This is Keiryu JMG.

TTYL

Dee

pensacolagarden - The vast majority of the many different colored cultivars presented on this thread belong to the botanical species Ipomoea nil...
Ipomoea nil is a highly mutable species and the Japanese have exploited this feature of I.nil to produce many different colors and leaf forms...many are tantamount to named cultivars within the Japanese asagao world...

This is Ipomoea tricolor
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4002308

The sepals on this one here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4035919
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4035924
are distorted and definitive botanical classification cannot be definitive from these photos alone although they are almost certainly either Ipomoea purpurea or Ipomoea nil...

Dee - Thanks for continuing to present these rare colors and form types of Ipomoea nil from Japan...

TTY,...


Ron

Ron,

Yes unless you`re an expert or experienced, the definitive botanical classification cannot be definitive from photos alone and in many cases growing the species as you all know will give you that view that pictures lack.

I still have lots more JMG pictures to post and will try to do a few this weekend when I`m free. When you think you`ve seen it all then there`s something new that comes alone. TTYL

Dee

Wow!! I am in awe!!! what beautiful blooms you folks have grown. I just love to look at all the pic you post
ladyblues

The most copmmon species like Ipomoea nil,I.purpurea,I.hederacea and Ipomoea tricolor are actually very easily to differentiate and learn especially if clear sepal photos are available...

The difficulty seems to be that some people confuse/confound the meaning of the term cultivar with the clear taxanomic features that determine species...

Ron

Ron, I agree. We must remember that a cultivar will usually fall within a single species, but a species can include very many different cultivars.

Another way I look at it is that species are generally naturally occuring divisions within a plant genus, and cultivars are usually created or selected by man from within a species as having specific desireable traits. The exception to this is obviously the hybridizing between species, which as Ron has consistently educated us, is quite difficult within the Genus Ipomea.

You have some nice cultivars going here, Dee!

Arlan

One more thought.....

I usually associate cultivars with asexually propogated plant selections with identical genetic make up maintained through the replication process. I like to refer to varieties of annuals, such as Ipomoea nil, as strains. This indicates to me that they are maintained through seed and implies that they can become contaminated or drift due to inadvertant hybridization or selection to criteria different from the original creator's.

Does that make sense?

So to re-phrase my comment of the prior post..... You have some nice strains going here, Dee!!!

Arlan

To the untrained eye a ipomoea purpurea hige can look very much like a mutant strain ipomoea nil because the seeds,plants and flowers can favor in many ways. The sepals are one characteristic that differentiates the two species. This information is helpful if you want to hybridize so you don`t attempt to cross incompatible species and also so you can know how to care for them and what their needs are as far as growing conditions.

Dee, You are correct that viewing and comparing the correctly ID`d plants in person is a good way to learn and get to know the plants.

I also agree with Arlan. You have many very interesting and beautiful strains of nils going on there!

Karen

Hello:Dee so many wonderful! mg's you have grown and nice!photos.your students will enjoy!those yummy lollypops for Halloween.I will look forward to the rare surprise!of mg seeds your sending for Christmas.Keep posting those mg photos.
Thank You!
Karla

Dee, I have enjoyed tremendously your sharing such gorgeous, varied cultivars of Ipomoea nil above. I haven't had much time on the computer lately, so the incredible range of form and color among those cultivars is quite a treat today.

One reason I like to distinguish between species and cultivars is that cultivars within a species will cross easily with each other, but not with cultivars from a different species.
If you were to post sideways pics of the above cultivars that belong to the species Ipomoea nil, then the characteristics of the sepals that identify them as belonging to I. nil would be clear to us all http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/91303/ - the sepals would be elongated and would not curve at the tips.*

You bring a dimension to this forum without which we would be much the poorer - thank you. Plus beaucoup thankyou's for putting me on your Xmas list. I'm going to make another trip to the post office today - they have some new regulations that prevented me from sending you my trade last time I visited them.

* edited to add source for how to identify strains of Ipomoea nil and other commonly grown morning glory species: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3504567 This one came from Ron, who denies being an expert but has profound respect for what he doesn't know - assumptions get lots of weedkiller from him.

further edited to add - Atenkley, you got me to question my own fuzziness about what is a cultivar. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivar , since it is the nature of a cultivar for offspring to "retain [the] characteristics [of the parents]", then a cultivar can be arrived at by selection (sexual method of sowing seed), discovery in the wild (ditto), cloning (asexual reproduction as in propagation by cuttings or division), or hybridization.

To me, this is all fascinating. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting things.

Karen

This message was edited Oct 13, 2007 8:03 PM

Dee, Your higes are purpureas and they are very,very special to me. I love all these pretty little surprises all wrapped up in a seed! Your nils such as Akatsuki mix and Kikyo Ten Ten to name two are off the charts for color and form!

bluespiral has another very good point there about how being able to ID species of cultivars can be a big help in the garden. You could plant two different species together provided the seeds were easy to differentiate and not worry about cross pollination and have a very cool display of color and forms! For example, the white hige with little black seeds could be planted together with a Sazanami tan seed cultivar for a beautiful display with no worries of cross pollination and you could tell the seeds apart when collecting as well. This is handy for gardeners with limited space like me who want to try every morning glory cultivar on planet earth. :)

Karen

This message was edited Oct 13, 2007 7:25 PM

Domo arigato, with a big smile.

Karen, Bluespiral and Skimper thanks for your comments and I`m glad that you guys appreciate what I`m sharing here. Arlan & Ron ditto.

Whether we call them strains, species or cultivars we can all agree on the fact that we share and love what the seed will produce. Also some enthusiast love the foliage just as much. So it`s all good.

It`s sunday morning here in Japan and I`ll be gathering MG seeds today among other things like enjoying life.

This picture is a feathered white MG strain that also bloom solid white flowers. It carries the fe, dp genes if you are into genetics aspect of this strain. TTYL

Dee

This message was edited Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM

Beautiful, Dee.

To all - I edited my post at http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/editpost.php?pid=4078756

Karen

Dee - Do you create crosses in your nursery? You've got such a nice selection! I was wondering if you & your wife are also trying to develop new cultivars?

Hi Beckygardener,

This year I didn`t do any crossing as planned but hope to go in that direction next season. The main task this past season was to grow out and catalog the different MGs in order to correctly ID them. Also to learn more about their growing and behavior patterns. Thanks for your comment. TTYL

Dee

MG Japan

This one looks just like Laurrie's (OhioBreezy) Berry Ice that she grew and sold back in 2005.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4000502

By chance did you purchase it through her? Just curious

Sandy

Here's her photo...

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=1714856

Hi Sandy,

No I`ve never purchased from her and rarely buy MG seeds off ebay. Most of what I`ve posted was purchased here in Japan. They look simular but not known in Japan as Berry Ice.

Do you by chance know what this blue one is called in USA?

Guys, I`m off today and will be online when I`m not running around. TTYL

Dee

Dee - The cultivar posted above has no exact color pattern equivalent in the West that I am aware of...but I like it...
It is reminiscent of an unnamed Ipomoea nil species posted here
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/122839/

The species is most likely Ipomoea nil but of course without the 'sacred sepal shot' I can't be absolutely certain...

What is the name in Romanji(?)...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron , I been out all day running around and just return home. This one is from a Japanese special mix pack but I will check and see if I can find it`s common name. I`ll get back with you on it later tonight when things are slow.

Dee

Dee, This another 3rd generation from your seeds. Do you have any idea what kind it could be? If I give this one a American nick name it will have to include watercolor because it looks like a watercolor painting. They came from a pack of tan seeds out of which one was a willow dianthus,some were more rounded blue and I selected these each generation for the corrugation in the leaf and how unusual the flower appeared. Each generation they seem to get even more fancy. You deserve credit for making my Japanese Morning Glory garden possible. :)

Notice the striations? This is a change I noticed from the weather getting cooler.

Karen

Dee, One more close up. I`m unsure of these go into the rare category in Japan but they have me occupied with hanging tags for sure. :)

P.S. They look like kikyo because some of the flowers on one vine may have the star shape but they also have variations of flowers on the same vine in which the flower is somewhat rounder and fuller than kikyo so I`m reluctant to put them in that category since they all do not make star shaped flowers. These flowers and leaves change as they grow and it is fun to watch and see what will happen next.


This message was edited Oct 15, 2007 12:25 PM

Karen,

These blooms are outstanding. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4085557

Karen could you show me what the leaves look like because I want to make sure they`re not the tan Kawaru seeds.

OK the other tan seeds if I remember correctly were from the 2006 morning glory festival. All the seeds left over from last year are stored in a box that I`m looking at right now. I guess I better check it out and see what`s there but I know I didn`t plant some of the mutant strains and only gave out a few.

Thanks for the compliment and wanting to give me credit for making your garden possible. I only provided the seeds but you did the work and brought them to life so the credit is all yours.

Dee

Dee,

I need to hunt for the leaf pictures and will try to get it posted tomorrow. The tan festival seeds I sprouted had one willow dianthus. There were 8 tan seeds. It was either festival or unknown labeled. Three or four were round flower blue and about another three or four plants were double similar to kikyo but different in ways too. I planted some more seeds taken from the kikyo double vine and I got another little willow dianthus seedling so the flowers in the above picture have to carry for the willow dianthus because it showed up again. Maybe they were crossed together and it showed up in the seedlins again in the F2. Now, it will be interesting to see if it can be worked with and there is part of next years plans.

Anyhow, I wished to show gratitude for the seeds being available. They made our summer more fun and now Paul has gotten interested in the mutants.

Karen



This message was edited Oct 15, 2007 7:36 PM

Karen - Your Kikyo blooms are outstanding! What a beauty!!! :-)

Thank you. I`m unsure if these are really kikyo because of all the different flowers this vine makes. Here is picture of variations.

This is another form this morning.

Dee, I hope I`m not hogging your thread too much. :) This is the requested leaf picture. This is how the leaves on the side shoots growing out appear. There are several different forms of leaves here. Some look whirlpool like on the kikyo and others are smooth and elongated like the willow dianthus exept much larger than on the willow dianthus. Some of these large willow dianthus looking leaves are straight with few curves and then some have the little curved "ears" at the top with some more pronouced than others.

Karen



This message was edited Oct 16, 2007 5:43 PM

Karen,

Thank you very much and I appreciate the information you shared. One of the things I remember about the plant from the tan seeds is that it produced two different types of blooms. The leaves posted here are consistent with that plant. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4089866

I`ll start germinating a few seeds and watch it grow during the winter.

I`m off to work and this weekend I`m in Osaka for a teachers seminar so I`ll check back next week.

thanks

Dee

Dee,

Your welcome. There were indeed three kinds in the festival or unknown ? I can`t remember which but you say festival seeds so that must be which one. There was a round flower,a double flower and one single willow dianthus in that pack of seeds. We will let you know if anything else interesting sprouts in the future. Karen


This message was edited Oct 16, 2007 5:50 PM

Hey Karen, these are the seeds I collected last year from that mutant plant.

You know I mention these seeds and plant here on Daves before but no one seemed interested so I set them aside.

I'll send you a few more of these to try. Maybe there's another mistery waiting.

TTYL

Dee

This message was edited Oct 17, 2007 9:28 AM

Dee, That would be wonderful. Thanks so much. :)

Karen

Dee - I'd love to try 2-3 of the seeds, too! Maybe on the next trade? I really like Karen's vine! And I love all the unique blooms! I don't think I have ever grown any vine (other than Moonvine) that had a tan seed. And I love my Moonvine!!! Apparently the tan seeds produce some outstanding vines and blooms!

Hey guys no problem. They will be included in the your xmas gift if you don`t mind waiting.

Dee

Hi Dee...I sent you a DG email

Thanks!
Sandy