Update from Internet Brands

Greenthumb99...Thanks for the Ad setting info. I followed your instructions and unchecked all the boxes, some of the ads disappeared, but i still have ads for online eyewear and other off the wall things. I am a paid member through June 27, so i think i should not be seeing any ads at all. Add another glitch to the pot. Add another reason not to renew.

I have no Advertisements showing at all here.. but I do see some double posting?

The double posting i believe is due to a glitch in the editing process after selecting "preview post". This is the 2nd time it has happened to me. Also the "back to top" and "skip to new" functions are not working for me.

Hate to say this but think you guys, Terry and Melody better be looking for new jobs if you haven't been. It is a tough thing to do. Even to admit to yourselves to do that. But, unless you know something the rest of us don't, hope you have something lined up. I honestly hate to leave myself. But, have to admit when it is time. Jeanette

And there's that damned Preview post again.

Alison - thank you for the apology, but waiting 6 weeks into this latest debacle tends to taint it as disingenuous. How these changes have been handled from the owner/admin side have been unbelievable. Now, Terry posts " I could have put up a banner at the top, and I didn't. That isn't Alison's fault...it's mine.". December is not the first event where members have complained bitterly about being blindsided, and when the issue of notification came up this go around, Admin earlier ducked the issue essentially saying that wholesale notification at the time was impractical.

The regional forum I participate in has all but completely died, and the ID forums now have photos so small on the left that I have to open each thread and then open photos in order to see if the item posted is something I might be able to identify, so I no longer bother. I really feel betrayed by "The Powers That Be", and while I hope otherwise, do not see the community I valued being restored.

Yes, vit, high numbers of a free membership are what matters to some. Oh yeah, if a free visitor came one day and asked how to keep Dandelion seeds out of their coffee cup and never came back, that person is now a member. Ask Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, members (or numbers) mean everything. Looking attractive to freebs (and potential buyers) is all that matters to some. Somebody's big idea backfired here. I had several friends that left weeks ago, (and more gonna leave eventually). Just make paying members free already, stop trying to hold onto that income stream. Make them free numbers before you don't even have them either way. At this rate, I'd be surprised if there were 500 paying members left when everybody's subscription runs out. Yeah, I'm not a baby, hate the preview button, I know how to edit too. It is REALLY upsetting losing posts.

RE: members listed that are no longer here. I went and checked and "Pebble" is still listed as a member, but when I went to "send Pebble a d-mail" it said she was no longer a member. I would think not, she died about 5 years ago...............

I went into Preferences and Ads and clicked to have NO, did I say NO ads. Right now, there are three ads amongst the threads: a car ad, a printing ad and a garden ad. (edited to change word "left" to "right")
At the top, I now have 4 inches of some garden ad I have to scroll past to get to my favorites.

First of all, I understood if you were a paying member, you AVOIDED the ads.

Secondly, why should one have to "change" your preferences when it was agreed there would be no ads? It seems a little sneaky to get ads in your face.

Thirdly, I'm still seeing ads. It's so annoying, distracting and aggravating. Paying members shouldn't have to deal with ads which were the agreement.

Edited: I closed out, went back into the website. Went to preferences, unchecked. Submitted. Ads are gone. Why did I have to do this in the first place? Why were the ads allowed to paid members?

I noticed members back in MAY 2014 were asking about the use of the advanced search. This is where you could put in some words and those words would pull up posts with the words highlighted in red. They were told they would report this request to the "powers that be". It has NOT RETURNED nor do I think it will.

Although Alison was in a car accident in December which I'm sorry this happened, having problems and concerns with this website has been going on long before December 2015.

I'm glad I have started reading this thread. I thought all along, it was me and my limited computer use. I do feel better that others have had the same sentiments. That is the few of us long term members that are left. It is somewhat gratifying to vent as I haven't done so until now. Unfortunately, venting will not bring back the davesgarden.com I knew.

As far as gardening is concerned, I am frustrated and disappointed trying to navigate this website. I've lost a lot of knowledgeable friends that in the past have been on this website. I feel I've been left behind. So to those old members that are like me, still hanging on, please send me a d-mail as to a different, useful, gardening website.
I have another month of free membership. I hope changes are made, but I think that is wishful thinking. It's too little too late. I am skeptical past members will return. Members were what made this website. So, let me know where everyone has gone and is going.

I'll turn the lights off.

This message was edited Jan 30, 2016 8:58 AM

This message was edited Jan 30, 2016 10:38 AM

I'm almost afraid to say anything positive so please don't attack me. Believe me when I say I also didn't like the changes/glitches, but now they are trying to remedy the situation. Whether it's too late or not, only time will tell.

Here are a few comments/suggestions for some of the problems, but I agree, some will need to be worked on by the techs.

1) Those of you seeing ads - most of us are not seeing adds so it may be related to your browser.

2) Advanced Search is still available if you're willing to make an extra click - Go to the list of forums. In the "Search Forums" box click on Search without typing anything into the search window (namely, leave the search window blank). The next page that opens will show a Search box with "Advanced Search" under the box. As a matter of fact, I just used Advanced Search last night.

3) I can't comment on the forced preview because I always preview to check for typos and I haven't encountered double posts.

Most of the comments show that a lot of members are being patient and fair. Many, like me, are willing to ride it out to see where it goes. Some of you feel differently.

Everybody messes up now and then. Some mess-ups can be pretty bad and may go on for too long. Can all of you honesty say you've never made a huge blunder?

if you no longer want to be here, then of course, it's time to leave. No one blames you for your feelings. But those of you who have already left, yet have come back just to remind administration how badly they blundered...why? What's the point? They already know.

How about we work on fixing the glitches and moving on. If it's too late, then it is. I'm on board. Are you?

There are 10 new subscribers on today's home page.
The "Other" site, a page I posted on that started Dec. 9, is now at 99 pages & 1964 reply's. It also is now way off of original topic. I won't deal with that. I'll stay here & make new friends.

I echo what nuts said.. and I'll be staying here too.. all of the features work for me.
If I left because something went wrong here, it would make me wonder how I stayed married for 36 years to Joe.. just saying....

Regarding the "no ads" process. I had to do it twice before the ads disappeared.

I can only conclude from what i have observed that the owners have ordered this "redesign" to cut costs. They saved a lot of space by gutting the Plant Database, the design changes to the site all appear to be cost-cutting decisions without regard for the members. There are just too many things that we don't have any more. I don't blame the programmers, i think they are doing what they have been told to do by the people who are paying them. I've spent time at most of the top competitors. gardenstew is an excellent site, the only thing it lacked was enough knowledgeable people. If there had been more knowledgeable people there i would still be there too. I hope some people will try out gardenstew, the program was excellent, there was an excellent web master (who is also a gardener). I haven't been there for a year or 2, but i am going to check it out again. I think lots of people are going to atp. You may find some of your friends there.
I am not hopeful for the future of DG and it makes me so sad to see it turned into an empty shell.

I completely agree with Nuts. For those of us who want to stay positive....

vitrsna-you have voiced your opinion many times and your posts are getting repetitive. Yes, there are other sites...most of us know this as its been posted many times on the fix it threads along with the membership thing. If you don't like DG why do you keep posting? With all those other sites why don't use them and stop all the negativity here? I'd like to enjoy the small step forward.

Thank you for the extra month and taking the time to explain. Not to pounce, but as long as we are all talking re-design, there is another of what I consider a design flaw in the Plant Files. A) I cannot search by most recently posted. If I pull up Irises, I can sort by Popularity, etc; but not recently posted. I don't want to miss one picture of my favorite plants so I used to always go in and sort by recently posted but all that was taken away last year during design changes. B) I used to be able to pull up a specific type of Iris and I could see thumbnails of all the different pictures people submitted but now, I can only see a small amount (6 or so at a time). Under the old design, it was absolutely great for use when trying to decide which plants to purchase because you could see the good, bad and downright ugly possibilities for a given plant. Now, I have to scan through multiple rows of pictures and it is not convienient. I truly liked the old design of plant files much much better.

nutsaboutnature - Amen to everything you said and to what was echoed by joeswife and also the comments by CountryGardens. Thank you all for having a positive attitude. Truthfully I have had few problems navigating after the initial wonky days and other glitches were noted by Terry and eventually corrected or are being resolved. If you want an exercise in non-responsiveness just try maneuvering around the ITunes or Apple sites in search of an answer to a problem!

I too am staying right here.

Edited to remove what might have seemed negative to some. Wasn't intended.


This message was edited Jan 30, 2016 4:41 PM

Ouch, somebody made it personal.
Congratulations for being the first, 1l.
I like vit's posts. We don't live in dreamland. I don't think facts can be called opinion. Our numbers and information are already out there in the public domain, if one is able to find it.
I concede that my projection of 500
left is conjecture but I don't think it's unreasonable.

I completely agree with you June. I'm glad I'm not the only one that wants to stay positive. It seems like everytime we get headed in a positive direction somebody wants to change the direction.

Edited to remove the restatement that was construed as negative.

This message was edited Jan 30, 2016 6:00 PM

Excuse me. How does that last part have anything to do with being positive? Looks like a snide slam from here. Like most people who have contributed to DG, a little part of me will be here forever. The photos, the comments, the posts all stay at the site. Look into some pictures of the native plants of Baja California maybe before you pick on people who have moved elsewhere to seek leadership that is responsive to criticism.

I wish my friends at DG nothing but the best. Please do me the courtesy of the same. Why the sniping? All this team-oriented defense of the site leadership does not change the fact that they remain totally unwilling to take responsibility for their actions (which include silencing criticism and defending an obviously untested update). There is no moving on here for me until this happens. I think that's totally fair. Please respect my decision. As should be clear from other commentary, I am not alone.

Have a nice day.

Note: you can delete your personal attacks, but you cannot un-say them. Here's another comment that you apparently thought was positive.

>> If you don't like DG why do you keep posting?

For the record, there is nothing more positive than wanting this site to improve. And there is nothing more negative than telling people to shut up because they disagree with you. The site leadership has a long list of questions that they refuse to answer, instead relying on members to pick on the people who asked them. I think all of that speaks quite clearly for itself.

This message was edited Jan 31, 2016 10:24 AM

Also, wanted to add this.. I don't want you to feel like well, we will never apologize again because we just got bull-dozed. I actually threw in my thoughts on what I don't like because you showed an interest in what we think. So please understand that, that in and of itself should be considered a great compliment since many companies frankly don't care. I know you can't please everyone and I am sure this site is used differently by different members. But if you want an amazing site, then I hope you can weigh all this feedback and say well at least part of this is doable and worth doing. And I hope the members remember that when it comes to design, you can't please everyone all the time

I have been a member since 2005. I keep pictures and journals here that I have no where else, and migrating from this site would be huge challenge. I appreciate the efforts made to correct problems with the site. Also, could someone tell me how to create a new journal for 2016? THANK YOU!

Terry and Melody

Thanks for all you do.

The one thing I hope never disappears from Dave's Garden is the Memory Garden thread. Over the years we've lost folks who were much loved here and the posts in their memory are tributes really worth saving. I was thinking of Darius today and went back to the Memory Garden to remind myself how much she is missed.

Terry, will you make certain that the Memory Garden gets preserved?

huntington, go to the main page, and click on this link, which is add/modify/delete, I think on your journal page.. http://davesgarden.com/tools/journal/journals.php
hope this helps.. reminds me to get busy and start my 2016 journal, as things are changing at my gardening place..

Nuts, i appreciated your post and you expressed yourself very well and with civility. I don't know what all the squabbling is about. We all have the right to express our opinions. It is inevitable that opinions will differ. That is what makes things interesting. Until recently, people have expressed opinions without being personally attacked. It is a shame that the conversation has been sullied in this way, but i think it still remains a worthwhile conversation and i hope it continues to be. I am as interested to hear the positive opinions as i am to hear the not so positive ones or the neutral ones or the suggestions for improvements..

Well, now that you are still losing members, let me say this, if you are going to resurrect this site again, my suggestion would be that you make the changes right back to the way it was working before you decided to "fix" it. An easy going, friendly, site that we didn't lose our posts after we typed so much, and on and on. Give us back the really good plantfiles everyone looked up to, don't mess with the Watchdog part, the vendors of the plants and seeds, do pay attention when they get a bad "hit" on Daves Garden. Or have you already decided that is the next one to be fixed? After adding everyone that ever looked at this site so you got it over 700,000, how many do you have left? It's getting spooky in here. Think I heard another door close. Are those the workers leaving?

Well, now that you are still losing members, let me say this, if you are going to resurrect this site again, my suggestion would be that you make the changes right back to the way it was working before you decided to "fix" it. An easy going, friendly, site that we didn't lose our posts after we typed so much, and on and on. Give us back the really good plantfiles everyone looked up to, don't mess with the Watchdog part, the vendors of the plants and seeds, do pay attention when they get a bad "hit" on Daves Garden. Or have you already decided that is the next one to be fixed? After adding everyone that ever looked at this site so you got it over 700,000, how many do you have left? It's getting spooky in here. Think I heard another door close. Are those the workers leaving?




This message was edited Jan 30, 2016 9:09 PM

I lived through the Cubits mess and stayed, and the All Things Plant thing and stayed (I was really offended when they took the images I had put during my brief stay with Cubits and moved them to ATP without permission) so I don't really mind some things, except 2. Plant files is much harder to use, and frankly the advertisements all over the place, including in the middle of threads, are exceedingly annoying. I have been subscribing since 2002, and change can be fine, but I am going on the site much less because I find the ads really annoying. would actually be willing to pay more to get rid of them.

If you are a paid subscriber Donna, you can get rid of the ads. Go to "my info", to my actions, to manage preferences, to ad settings. Make sure none of the 3 boxes is checked and hit "Submit". I recently learned this, and went through the process, but had to do it twice. The first time some ads disappeared but not all ads disappeared. The second time all the ads were gone. So don't be discouraged if the first try doesn't completely work. Try again and hopefully it will work. If it doesn't work the second time, report a bug. Good luck!

Alison you can apologize all you want, but when I lose a long post like I just did, I really don't want to listen to your excuses. We pay our money to be able to learn about gardening, discuss it, visit with our friends, and while it isn't a real lot of money, it is what we do for you to provide this site.

When we have things like that happen, and it does happen almost every other time we are posting, our blood pressure does go up. That $20 bucks a year does not compensate me for that.

Do you and the rest of Internet Brands people understand at all what I am telling you? Probably not. That is what is so frustrating.

I did the same thing tonight as ViolaAnn did last night. A long post that takes a lot of thought and typing and come on here the next night to find it disappeared. So, tomorrow night I will come on here and find this one gone. Very convenient isn't it. JUst delete what you don't want to hear. (read).

So, no use spending my time on it. ttyl,

I never lose a post. Even on the old format people complained about losing posts.
All you need to do is hit the right buttons. Very simple.

Yes, I know about the ADVANCED SEARCH. I put in "pricking seeds Dino" just now and the result was: "nothing found try fewer words". Really? I put in "pricking seeds dino" in google search and lots of stuff comes up.
Then, I put in Penstemon spectabilis and several threads come up. I clicked on the first one and there are 6 pages of threads.
In the past, if I put in Penstemon spectabilis, the threads would come up with the words Penstemon spectabilis in RED. You could easily scan the threads and find what you were looking for. Now, one has to read and read and read and hope to find the words Penstemon spectabilis. I look at all the pages and just "pass". Advanced Search isn't what is used to be.

Oh yeah, where to even start on all the changes to the site. Let me try to think of some. There's the new preview post button (just out of habit hitting it and getting up, it used to be the post button, imagine how many people have lost posts just from that). Threads are broken up into multiple pages now. Before, threads were long but unless one was on dialup (3%) or was unaware how to scroll page at a time, (or just grab the scroll button, down or up arrow and get to the top or bottom in a half second), it wasn't too bad. Now, to look for a post you have to go nearly to the bottom of the page and find that page thing, select a page, see that it was before or after and go back to that page thing and do the process again for another page. Maybe I can't find times but it's changed to 2 hrs. ago or whatever, (see the resemblance to Facebook there)? Seeing the time was nice, instead of calculating when it was posted.
And if the page isn't refreshed you could be way off on when, (and who else has posted and maybe talked to you). Before, you had "new post - yes or no". Those are some of my nuisances. I'm sure there's tons more, like Plantfiles for example.


This message was edited Feb 1, 2016 8:04 AM

I'm glad this site is still here and operating much the same way it always had, despite the original owner selling it and taking off for greener pastures. All those who invested in that - from the beginning or the interim or brand new - can choose or not to recognize the roots of their discontent. Modernization of a 15 year old system is bound to happen at some point, and evolution of the user group has proceeded without reference to conditions here. Any casual observer can also see that this site has become international at a tremendous rate, and those new participants are probably wondering what all the kerfuffle is about.

I'm glad that I understand enough about the ins and outs of technology to know that the IT world is far from perfect, but I also know that nothing has destroyed my computer or any of the things on it that I hold dear because of this site. Hiccups and aberrations about navigation here can be changed/fixed, have often been changed, and likely will change again. Kind of like the weather - wait a minute, or hour, or day, and it will be different. Might be better, might be worse, but continually changing. To remain static? That would take a rename: DavesSilkPlantGarden.com

There are many postings I've seen around the site since last fall that come across as if this site is at the beck and call of individuals, rather than being useful reports of problems. We all have a choice to be purely negative - I've exercised that option on occasion - or to spin discontent into a constructive comment to find a way forward. Only you and your perspective can make that decision. While customer service is important, it doesn't have to bear on how I live my life. As everyone on earth can, I can vote with my feet/keyboard/subscription and move on if I find things insufferable. That those same posters seem to come back - over and over and over, with mostly cut/paste complaints - says something completely different and I have no idea what to make of that. Ventilation, and moving forward seems more productive.

I liken the tumult here to an ice storm, or construction of a major facility infrastructure. People complain that their lives are inconvenienced; why aren't the roads open or the power back on; etc. etc. etc. Sometimes, THAT is a life-changing event. Most times, we soldier on and are happy/satisfied when things return to a semblance of normalcy. Some changes at this website, well, pretty much don't rate quite so much angst/anger/bile.

Finally, since I arrived here in 2006 from a different website that was never easy for me to participate in beyond written posts (dialup days! Why not blame that on IB?), I've found a revolving door of interesting participants with a generally common theme around socialization and plants. Some were able to roll with “punches” and differences of opinion. Some were irrational, and took any difference of opinion as a personal assault. Some were extremely knowledgeable and tops in their field in the green industry. Some were absolute novices that were eager to learn and grow. Events would happen, and some would depart for someplace else. Some would sulk and withhold for awhile. Some would close their eyes, damn the torpedoes, and charge into the new fray. Once thing is for sure: this community has been a great cross section of people from all ranges of race, sex, creed, culture, country of origin, and every other measuring stick you can apply. That’s what makes participation here so rich.

I'm attaching links images from the first week I participated, to the most recent, and a link to (as near as I can make out)my first post - on a Viburnum thread!

It's been quite the ride...

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/95921/

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/391438/

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/523869/

It was really nice to read comments from other "positive" members. I was beginning to wonder...so Thanks everyone for your responses to my post!

CountryGardens ~ I'm with you. I never lose posts. I think I may have lost one or two years ago, but that was my old computer kicking me out of the site.
I'm not a tech so it's possible some people have had legitimate issues, but it's not something I've personally experienced.

Birder ~ I might be able to help you. There are two fairly easy ways to locate threads. I'm not saying you'll find all of them, but it's how I found a lot of old threads after the consolidation of forums a while back.

1) Go to Communities and scroll down to Tagged Pages (bottom of page). Click Ctrl F. That brings up a small text box on your computer (on mine it's on the bottom left).

Type in your word or phrase. It highlights & brings up everything using that word. As you click "next" it will bring you to any more. There was lots on Penstemon, but nothing on Penstemon Spectabilis.

2) Click on Advanced Search. You can use that same "Ctrl F" box to highlight your item both in the list and within threads. Penstemon Spectabilis was there, but I don't quite understand what "Pricking seeds Dino" means. Is it Pricking or Picking (you wrote pricking in your post)? Was the thread or post written by Dino? Was it old or recent? There are ways to filter. That's the advantage of Advanced Search.

Here is a screenshot of Tagged Pages where I typed in Penstemon. The second one is a list of threads where I typed Penstemon Spectabilis in Advanced Search.

Sorry for the blurry screenshots, but that started after we upgraded from Windows 8 to 8.1

ViburnumValley -- What a terrific, non-judgmental review. I came to Dave's Garden in 2006 via a Google search seeking guidance on how to hem jeans! Someone in a sewing thread responded and I then poked around, found some interesting groups in which I've made wonderful cyber friendships over the years and never left. I rode out the last storm of change here and will ride this one out too. Thanks for your post today. Much appreciated.

Well said, VV.

Viburnum ~ We cross-posted.
Thanks for your well thought out and comprehensive post. I now realize there are a lot of us that feel the way you do.

It's unfortunate there are still many assorted members who insist on taking the "Why Me" stance as though the changes were a personal attack on them. But I think the rest of us are ready to move forward.

P.S. I really enjoyed your past/present post and pics!

The thing I miss the most is the Round ups. There was an Iowa group, 6 years of Round ups, then Dave sold out & started Cubits. Most of that group is gone. Some are not on any site now. Kentucky group sort of just died out. Last one there was 2011 I think. KY RU is where I met Melody & Terry. What great gals! Pictures at KY RU 2008. I started here in 2002.

We have been having Round ups here in Arlington Texas for many years including spring 2015. We didn't meet in the fall because of illness but hope to continue this spring.
Getting together with friends is one of the best things about DG.