Update from Internet Brands

Thank you! Terrific!

I will bring up the suggestion to put the "Home" link back at the bottom of each page. That may be further down the road, after we get bugs fixed.

Happy Birthday melody!! Hope your day is terrific!

Very nice of you. Please just do this in the future. Also an occasional 'survey' of "What do you like on DG and what changes would you like to see?" might be useful feed back for you guys if you did it once or twice a year PRIOR to making the changes. Nobody likes surprises. Thank you though for acknowledging the problems and addressing them all be it kind of late. Also appreciate the extra month subscription.

Also to members,....
Please be proactive in sending your positives---not just your negatives to mgmt. It helps them if they know what they're doing right and NOT just wrong. It is good for them to hear what we love and like and what we'd like to change or not.

It is helpful if they hear from us, their 'customers', in advance so that we can help direct them in making better choices and decisions when it comes to DG. This way we can ensure our DG is the most enjoyable website for all. If we don't take a few moments to tell them what we like and want then they don't know.

AG.

BTW Happy Birthday Melody. have a fabulous day and a wonderful weekend.

This message was edited Feb 12, 2016 10:33 AM

A couple of changes on the posts, i.e. you don't have to go back on each photo to get to the beginning. That is nice, and also like that there is no forced preview. However, we get two nice ones and take one away. I find that we lost the ability to put our mouse over a poster and be able to d-mail that person. I really liked that one. We lose a lot of communication with other members that way. And also have heard nothing on the request to have the time posted with the dates on each post. I may not have used the correct route for that request.

One more thing kind of gripes me that so many of these things are being done for the mobile users. I DO honestly understand the advantages to them, but I don't understand why it is so necessary to mess the whole site up big time. I think a lot of them are unnecessary because my daughter used to send me pictures of plants from nurseries back in 2004 when I first joined. She had already joined. So, why the need for more now?

Also, I don't know that the members are the reason for the immediate changes for the plantfiles are so much as the fact that the public gets the plantfiles on google. That really is important for DG.

As long as we're talking links... I've been on several other sites (including retail sites) where there are 3 links at the bottom of a page -- back top of page / thread, back to forum page (or section of retail store), and back to home page. That would definitely simplify navigation once you've clicked your way into a thread.

editing to add... I don't remember this in the other thread I was in this morning or at the bottom of this thread, but just now in the "preserving foods" forum I found a link to go to all threads in the forum, as well as the now-familiar "back to top."

editing again to say the "new" link to get back to the top of the forum page may have been there for a while... I just figured out that I need to scroll all the way down the page (from inside a thread) to see it, past the "other threads I might like" section (which I generally skip since it seems to contain mostly threads that havne't seen activity in years).

:-)

This message was edited Feb 20, 2016 3:24 PM

This message was edited Feb 20, 2016 3:26 PM

I don't understand the 10 year old links at the bottom of the pages....
Also the thumbnails on trash to treasure or almost all the sites are so small you can''t tell what it is, but the thumbnails on the right side of the page are much bigger, these are 'suggestions' sites....
Almost everyone from midwest forum has left, my renewal is March 4,
"Hi Joyce,

We are using PayPal's checkout because it is more secure than our former checkout. But you don't have to have a PayPal account to pay with your credit or debit card - just click on the PayPal link and follow the steps - let us know if you have any problems."

Pretty much looks like if I sign up as a guest paypal has all my information in order to pay DG.

Terry: quick and unrelated question. I've sent 2 d-mails to you asking for a small change on a specific thread title but haven't heard back. Is it not something you can do? There's no way to change a title error ourselves.

I have also sent one but I think it was to Melody to fix my wrong date on the "Chair........" thread. Still wrong (my mistake) the last time I viewed it.

Thank you, thank you, Terry Much appreciated.

I've been using PayPal for years on DG and anywhere else that offers it as an option. I feel more comfortable not putting in my credit card number online. More and more websites are offering PayPal as an alternative. I always look for it before paying.

Well paypal is just one other who has to have your credit card number to process the payment, or it wouldn't ever hit your credit card.

Sorry to say I am not renewing in March I will miss my friends, but others have left before me and others will stay.

I did enjoy DG before Dave sold it and even stuck thru that, but time to go. Thank you all.

Happ, I would be very sorry to see you go!

And, just as a note, I have been using Paypal for years and I don't use my charge card. One of my options is a bank account debit, which I like because it turns up on my bank statement, and gives me an extra layer of security, since my bank is very careful.

I like the fact that Paypal offers the option to allow you to pay after delivery, too. If you take that one, they contact you after delivery to make certain that you are happy.

But I do understand. And I will miss you.

I just lost my "reply". Maybe this is an omen!
I renewed my subscription for another year. I think these people have heard us loud and clear and are trying to make a conscious effort to improve the website. I have so enjoyed this website in the past. I have been so comfortable navigating through the website. I'm not a crowd follower. The subscription is the price of one nice meal. I'm willing to give this website one more year. I've done a lot of thinking about it. I find myself constantly going to the plant files and the reviews to learn about a new plant. Although, if you don't have members, you don't have reviews.
So, we will see. It's just too bad they have hacked around on this past very satisfying website. It makes us all sad.

This thread keeps telling me there is new content, but there isn't. I unwatched it, went back to the main forum again and "watched" it and it shows up again as having new content.

Same here, teacup. Thought it was just me. This isn't the first time this has happened re: that problem.

teacup, I had the same problem with the rose forum abut two weeks ago. It finally disappeared.

Oh Birder, this is good news! You are one of the reasons I stay!

Ditto to you, Donna. I wish more of our old friends would tough this out and stay one more year. Happ: are you listening? :)

I'm also looking forward to making new davesgarden.com friends!

Hopefully, the programmers (or whoever) will be able to make this website user-friendly once again and restore a good relationship. All of the dave gardener members would like that. It is sad it took a lot of great members to abandon the website before the powers that be came to a realization their website had become dysfunctional.

I think the transition would have been so much easier if it had been tested first (as we had been lead to believe). I have to say ive never lost a post. Does it just disappear?

I don't know birder, teacup or DonnaMack. Anna and I have met. But I thought birder's post said everything I might have expressed given an articulate moment. I'm not averse to change or separation. Like birder, I am not a crowd follower. Even more so when I suspect a charismatic crowd leader.

I've got no complaints about changes to date. Color, size, cconfiguration, etc. are no big deal. But I'm unhappy with the dysfunctions of the site regarding issues on Plant Files or lost threads. I have wondered if that's due to the two "Post Reply" options. My #1 current complaint is the not working thread views. If you spend time and energy, include posting photos, and also respond to questions and comments about a topic you should be able to see whether or not you are talking to yourself.

I won't leave because of site issues. As birder mentioned, the exchange is worth the price, but Admin and programmers currently working on the site need to concentrate on what makes people post. It's the almost-but-not- exactly bloggers, not the responders, whose issues should be reviewed. IB should address communication from top Plant Files and thread posters first and foremost.

This message was edited Feb 28, 2016 8:26 PM

Yes, lisa, it does.

I guess my perspective is a little different. I've been here since 2002. And I have done a lot of posting and uploaded a lot of pictures. I briefly went to Cubits because I was invited, but the Admins basically appointed themselves, and then contacted me and told me what threads I was responsible for. And while I am very good with Grasses and Pest Control, to which I was assigned, albeit with no say in the matter, some of the assignors (controllers) gave themselves threads on which I think I am really knowledgeable, like roses, lilies and bulbs, especially alliums. I am a member of the North American Lily Society and have just germinated Emerald Temple, which is no longer in commerce. And I got no technical help in setting up a forum, despite asking for it.

And to be honest, I did not miss a couple of people who left. When I was a rose novice, it was ok if I commented. But as I acquired experience and read a lot, I really enjoyed helping other people. And some people have interesting attitudes. A person wanted to know how to overwinter roses in containers in zone 5a. I had figured it out and was doing it, so I shared my data. A person came on the thread and said I had no business doing that and that the person should simply let the roses die.That's what you're supposed to do, you know. You buy a bunch of small roses, throw them in the ground with no care and play the tough love game. So you lost a lot of roses because they never mature. Huh? Was I sorry when the person moved on? Uh, no. Did I want to move with them? Uh, no. I was OK being a novice, but how dare I take on the role they had assigned themselves - being the fonts of knowledge who told everyone else how to do things.

Then Cubits struggled and they went to All Things Plants. Taking with them every picture I had given Cubits - without my permission. And some of the people I wasn't crazy about are all over the place there too.

Some people bounce back and forth, like the wonderful Neal (Gemini Sage). And I am in private communication with a couple of lovely people from that forum. But who has the energy to keep moving around? I have been an "Expert" on the All Experts website for several years. I have answered well over 100 inquiries from people all over the world, and it's a blast (Iceland, anyone?). I also work the help desk a few hours a year as a Master Gardener. I love to exchange ideas and share knowledge. I try to contribute to Help Me Find and financially support them. And of Cubits, ATP and Daves, my perception is that this is the best for those aims. Not perfect.

But it has far fewer people who do, over and over, a thing that is my pet peeve. Show endless closeup pictures of their plants with little information or explanation. Look what I've got!!!!! If you want to see that here, there is s special section for it - you don't get it in the rose thread and the lily thread and the peony thread. It's nice that you have 500 peonies. It's overbearing when you show me picture after picture after picture of your 500 peonies, or lilies, or roses, or whatever, in mostly closeups, so I can't assess the character of the entire plant, which may not be to my taste.

Sorry for ranting, but people from that other forum keep writing to me privately and asking why I'm still here. Maybe I should direct them to this.

Maypoplaurel..............I must be getting REAL old...........when did we meet????

So how is your perspective different? It sounds the same as mine but with a more extensive personal statement. Due to similar experiences I am here and not elsewhere. Aside from what's been said, I invest in ventures and people whose opinions and thinking are not in opposition to mine. I'm not going to support sites run by people who are seemingly magnanamous while in reality they operate under a narrow minded agenda defined by self interest.

Anna, we have not met in reality. But I believe we have met on other threads.

Oh, ok. Yes, I believe so.

Cubits................ick. Never did like that. I felt like a rat in a maze trying to navigate that site. JMHO............
Is there ANY activity at all going on over there?

This message was edited Feb 29, 2016 8:26 AM

Maypop,

One of the reasons I wrote what I did is that I have never heard about talk about the aspect of it I addressed. Yes, I had issues with this site but I never heard any criticism of some of the former practices here that continue on those other sites. Your comments are, frankly, the first that I have heard. It makes me wonder how many other people feel the way I do and the way I perceive you do about some of the things on the former site.

We will agree to disagree, or at least I will until the 3rd of March then my life line will be cut. I have been a member for 9 years, I suffered thru the buyout when Dave sold and those changes which weren’t horrible not like this. The old website is/was amazing not because of the company but because of US and all the work WE did to make it. We made the plant files, the forums, loaded the pictures and PAID for the access to share and use our OWN information. The company will make money off of my work long after I am gone. You no longer own your pictures or forums once you stop paying. I can still access members who have been gone 5 years and longer.

Actually when you think about it, it is quite a business model. The ‘employees’ who build all the data actually pay you $25 a year. Then as the website gets bigger and bigger you get more ‘employees’ who will pay you to keep building your website. Then in today’s data collection market I can sell your information you paid to give me…..a win win situation.

This is the companies statement “PlantFiles is largest plant database in the world, built by 60,154 gardeners” if there are only still 30,000 active gardeners (because when we leave they keep our work) that is 30,000 * 25 = $750,000 (per year not including selling of information). If you search Daves Garden it will say there are 500,00 members.

We paid to build their business and they don’t even have enough respect for us as consumers to test the software. I don’t begrudge anyone making a profit and I voluntarily participated. I do have a problem with the lack of respect for me as a paying consumer.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT

It's great to be agreeable while disagreeing. Most topics don't require a consensus though people often push for one. I believe there is a natural waxing and waning of populations on social networking sites. Either newer, energetic folks are attracted to participate or the site folds. There are still old timers who put lots of effort into keeping the files current, answering questions and maintaining their life lines. That's all I intend to add here. 'Nuff said.

I don't expect to change any minds, but only wish to shed light on what really looks like a bit of a con job. I don't know many of the recently departed from the man in the moon, but I believe the stats quoted (and parroted in multiple posts here) tell me that a pig in a poke has been bandied about.

Point all the fingers you want at the current owners, but the folks that made out like bandits - and still are - sold this site initially. They made that money off the backs of all the participants. They were and are business people - more power to them in this capitalist country - and that they could accomplish so much is admirable from that perspective. That bonanza has been parlayed into several new ventures, and they're making that money all over again - off many of the same (unpaid) participants. I suspect that they need to keep recruitment up so that the new operation gains some level of competence.

If that is the primary complaint about this site - that a new company is now making money (on a site they paid for) off of current participants - sorry, that's a great big straw man. This arrangement is no different than any other member-constructed site.

I don't have a problem being a member here, and I don't expect a free lunch. It is a site I didn't have to set up - I just have to show up. Exchange of information and knowledge is the value to me. Getting feathers rustled over IT issues has never registered as a gross injustice or personal imposition - especially when considering that this site had been essentially a Model T framework needing to be rebuilt for 21st Century platforms and customers. That fact was well-hidden when the former owners moved on to greener ($$) and more modern pastures.

As noted - populations and demographics change. I suspect that there is more peer pressure from dominant personalities pushing membership around than there is any other scenario. So goes group dynamics. Find your comfort zone and kick back - but don't blame the bogeyman behind the Quercus macrocarpa.

Could never understand need for firewalls between participation on sites. An "Us or Them" ultimatum smacks of folks I'd rather not flock with.

I just don't understand all of the uproar over image ownership. Is there not a way to watermark images, when uploading them? And, I'm assuming the original purpose of the image upload was to help someone in the future identify, and/or know what the plant looks like. If that's the case, then what difference does it make where someone finds the image, whether it's on DG or via a Google search? Good grief, it's just an image of a plant. It's not a priceless piece of art. If people want to keep images to themselves, they shouldn't upload them to the net. Anywhere. lol

Also, all of the talk of them "selling your personal information" is unfounded. Their privacy policy is linked right from their website. A quick perusal of it should alleviate those fears. They only share the info with InternetBrands partners. It's called targeted advertising, and it's commonplace on the net (and it rarely contains anything really personal).

This message was edited Feb 29, 2016 2:20 PM

Some excellent points, VV, including some I had never considered, like the fact that a lot of money has been made by a lot of people selling things back and forth. And, as is obvious, I very much agree with your point about the "dominant personalities", who very much pushed (and are still pushing) the us and them thing. I for one would appreciate it if former devotees of this site would stop writing to me through other sites (they have access to my contact information through those who went to Cubits) and asking why the heck I am still here. I don't know if others receive these missives, but some of them imply that I just don't get it, and if I had any sense, I would leave this site and join them.

I've stopped responding. Obviously there is enough here to keep me here.