New formatting to forums coming soon!

Is there a way to include an option to POST in addition to PREVIEW POST? It's really a pain to have to click the button twice to add a reply. I have often lost my reply because I forgot you now have to preview and then post. It's very cumbersome and takes up time. Having the option to just post without previewing would be wonderful.

Terry, the choice is to add forums to Favorites but not to remove them. It seems I need to go through and Unwatch each thread. I'll just do that because there are a couple threads that I now notice might be of interest. No problem. Thanks for the guidance.

Stephanie, Being forced to Preview our posts before sending them is on the list of 'fixes' Terry in Admin says is being worked on.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=10183560

June, when you are at the main forum page, there is a link next to it to remove or add it to your favorites - see my screenshot below. Do you see that when you go here? http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/dg/all/ (or to the main page for all the other forums?)

Those decisions are not necessary, and knowing the difference is the very definition of accountability. Give us a working system (paying members are paying for working access to the forums) while YOU not us work out the bugs. If that is not a constructive solution, or if I have somehow failed to articulate the argument coherently, please let me know. If the downgrade was actually necessary, as you claim repeatedly, please explain to me why it is necessary for the paying members of the site to do beta testing work that should have been done by you and the developers. The key word there is necessary and it's one you chose. So justify it please if you can.

The leadership failed the paying members of DG on this forums downgrade and does not even seem to be aware of the failure. That's what I'm talking about when I mention accountability, and I can't imagine what would be more constructive than asking for some way to influence the way these decisions are made, other than to cancel our membership. Since that is the only option you have left us, apparently.

This message was edited Dec 31, 2015 11:42 AM

Well put Baja. Here we are 3 weeks into this fiasco and numerous glitches and unpopular changes are still unresolved. Navigating the site is still enough of a pain that many members (subscribers) are simply not participating on forums, or doing so only occasionally. For me it has gotten to the point that I only participate in my regional forum where the members I interact with off-line keep in touch, and many there have already left or will not be renewing their subscription when it expires.

When this new format was forced upon us there were numerous glitches, omissions, etc. evident immediately upon logging on. Yet, DG Admin took umbrage at comments that the changes were not properly vetted. This attitude is nothing less than a slap in the face to this community. The damage that has been done is great, and there has been absolutely no "mia culpa" from any entity on the other side of this interface. Some part of "the powers that be" owe the entire DG community an apology. The lack of the accountability you speak of underscores either indifference/arrogance or cluelessness on the part of the organization.

Without speculating on that last assertion, it's entirely evident that there is absolutely no awareness of the kind of unnecessary damage this forums downgrade has had on community at DG. People are not participating because they still can't even tell when a forum has new activity without going and clicking inside it. Or they aren't updated on new posts because the system doesn't "watch" after they participate in a thread. Or any number of other things that don't work.

I would think a good starting point would be to reimburse paying members for a month of lost functionality (or however long it takes to return to the former level of function).

The real damage is a consequence of the people who walk away from this community. There's nothing new about the trend, but it's worth pointing out that participation is what makes the forums work. Conversely, lack of participation is what kills them. The decision to implement a failed downgrade is having the net effect of killing off the forums. The lack of accountability for this decision is also having the net effect of killing off the forums.

Baja - I was thinking the same thing about reimbursement. My subscription money is going to attracting (probably) non-paying queries from mobiles while I can't effectively use the site.

I tried to start a new thread on the PlantFiles Pictures Discussion Forum and there was no area at the bottom to start a new thread, Most of the forums have no new post. Is this because of a bug or did everyone just stop posting?

The new posts aren't showing up on the homepage but if you click on the forum it will take you to the forum and thus the threads, where there are new posts.

After clicking into the forums the pictures on the left of thread are too small.

I have tried to be positive about this 'upgrade' and not chime in with negativity. I must air a grievance though. The glitches I can work with. Getting used to a new design, good, bad, or otherwise, I can get used to. An ownership that seemingly cares little about end users, I don't like it but can deal with it if the product is good. What I cannot deal with is that I now HAVE to go to ATP in order to stay in touch with friends I've made on here. Keep in mind I WANT to stay at DG but now have no choice but to also regularly use ATP in order to stay in touch. At this point, I will probably still continue a subscription because it's only 20 bucks and I like DG, but I sure hope there is a plan to woo new members to make up for lost participation due to a series of glitches over the last couple years. DG had a good thing going but I guess everything has it's time.

It was mentioned over in another forum in this group of "DG Site Updates" forums that Dave's Garden claims to have 700,000 members (approximately). I (and others) think that figure is grossly exaggerated. In the past I requested that DG "scrub" their members list to only "actual" members, subscribers or not. Apparently they have not done that.

ZM

That was mentioned on this forum on a different thread. : )

Yeah I'm sure that's not an accurate figure. Only active members count. It's a darned shame really.

Sequoiadendron, you have highlighted the dilemma many subscribers now face. As of 4/1/2013 there were 4504 subscribers, the earliest Weekly Newsletter I still have on my computer. I know in years earlier it was a much higher number. As of 12/15/2014, the last week DG publicly posted this statistic, the count was down to 2798, a 38% decline in 20 months. As of today (01/05/16) the subscriber count is 2068, a 26% decline in essentially one year. Many of the subscribers I interact with intend to not renew their subscriptions when they expire as a result of this latest mishandling of an "upgrade", so I expect that the subscriber count will have drastically declined 6 months from now.
This decline in subscribers feeds upon itself; as the numbers decline, the participation in many forums wanes, which then leads to other subscribers losing interest and not renewing. And so the cycle goes round and round, a negative feedback loop. Add to this the widespread dissatisfaction with the latest changes and the Admin/Owner response and I see this process accelerating. The membership count is irrelevant to the survival of the forums restricted to subscribers, and either DG will have to open them al to non-subscribers, or eliminate them due to lack of traffic. In the past few weeks participation in many forums I frequented has fallen significantly and I now mainly interact with my regional forum, and it too is fading (as you attest).

It's too bad as I'd like to see DG stay around mainly for the Garden Watchdog and Plantfiles data, which members like you and myself, among many others over the course of time have worked so hard to maintain.

I've been gone for some time, and now that I have space to garden again, I was able to come back. I am not sure I like the changes either, however, I've been gone too long to be able to complain.

I do have one suggestion, though . . . and I apologize if this has been mentioned before (I stopped reading the responses by page 3) . . . instead of members actually putting this forum as a Favorite, wouldn't it be more prudent - when there are upcoming changes - to put a link on the home page in bright red letters (ok, any bright color) stating to "click here for upcoming changes", and that the link would not go away until the person clicks on it? Then, no one would be able to say they didn't know what was going to happen.

Just a thought.

Oh, yeah . . . previewing the post before actually posting . . . not a favorite thing. (again, I apologize if this has been mentioned before)

That is a forum where the threads are each generated when a new photo is approved and added to PlantFiles.

Welcome back - it's nice to "see" you again :-). Yes, we can post an update/alert when changes are pending. With this upgrade, we weren't exactly sure when we would be rolling it out. A few weeks before it was launched, I posted a new thread with details of the changes, and side-by-side screenshots of the old and new format so people could see what was coming. In hindsight, we see that it wasn't well-read, so we know we need to work on our communication. (But communication is a shared responsibility, and we have to rely on members to tune in to this forum for details on updates - we don't have any other way to go into any details with the entire community.)

Assuming we have some lead time, before we roll out changes to the home page, we will post an alert that shows up at the top of all pages, and include a link to a thread here.

We have also noted the post vs. preview issue, and we're working on fixing that ASAP.

I will confess, I only come into this forum if something has gone awry. I attempt to look for my answer within the newer threads. So I honestly has no idea this change was coming, just like the last one.

I do look at the "warning" / notices when they are posted above, like when there is a maintenance outage... for-warnings are a nice thing to have.

A little diddy I noticed yesterday.... within my posts i use the degree sign A LOT as we talk about the weather all the time. I know it's one of those hiccups where the post will not post.

So yesterday when I previewed my post, it shows above, like it will look "if" it posts, but the window below where you can still edit, that window is blank. So, i knew the degree symbol was still an issue.

If I copy my post, then paste it in the blank / empty "text edit" box below, hit Post, and my message will post.

Terese

Good catch - I suspected the degree symbol was one of the pesky troublemakers. We will have our weekly conference call with the lead tech and other staff later today. I will make sure this gets added to their list.

In the past, when using "View the posts you have made", the links you clicked on took you to your actual posts. Now it just takes you to the beginning of the thread, even if it is 100's of posts long and your post is at the end. Also, it only has one entry per thread, no matter how many separate posts on one made on that thread. For long, ongoing threads this feature is now pretty useless, plus, it is no longer an actual inventory of one's posts and should not be presented as such.

Terese[/quote]

Good catch - I suspected the degree symbol was one of the pesky troublemakers. We will have our weekly conference call with the lead tech and other staff later today. I will make sure this gets added to their list.[/quote]

The dash and three periods in a row continue to be a issue also.

Thanks - I will file that as a bug. I rarely use my own "see all posts" because it includes all my replies to help desk threads, too - so it's REALLY cumbersome. But for the typical member, it is a helpful tool. We'll see if we can get it working again.