New formatting to forums coming soon!

I would like Terry to explain why his/her time is more important than the members. Why is is that every single member who uses this broken forum interface has to waste their time (unnecessarily, because the old interface worked fine)? Why is is that constructive suggestions and criticism directed at the leadership is being called a waste of their time? I'm not going to use the quote feature to show exactly where this claim was made because the quote feature still does not work. All I see here is a net waste of the users' time.

In the beginning, Terry and Melody, you were victims too, as users of the site faced with an engineering failure. When you stood up for a failed system, you became accomplices. If that was not your choice then I would like to know how the powers that be made these decisions and what recourse we have to challenge them. When a site is free, you can crowdsource the beta testing. When people have to pay to play, the standards are a little higher.

Let me put it this way: the people who pay your salary (the generic you, not anyone in particular) are not your employees.

This message was edited Dec 11, 2015 11:13 AM

This is so much better already! So much easier on my eyes!!! And the message box is so much bigger. I guess I should have waited before I let my blood pressure go up!!! I hope these fixes continue to be made so fast!!

And when you have a chance, please fix PlantFiles so new plants can be added.

This message was edited Jan 16, 2016 3:43 PM

I can find nothing on the right of my screen to return to the top of the page.

Viewing pictures still throws me back to the very beginning of the thread.

My home page does not show me new activity on forums/threads that I am currently posting on. I thought perhaps logging out, shutting down and restarting my computer and logging back in might make a difference...but no.

I too am having problems seeing the small and light colored font. I know I can scroll and make the page larger, but it is a pain. I would also like to see the date and time return to each post. I don't like seeing minutes or hours on the last post.

Change happens. I'm struggling to see the images in the Plant ID forum. In that forum, the thumbnails are just so small. I guess I'm getting old and the new format is designed for younger.

Themoonhowl...........I figured out you have to click on "watch thread" at the very top of the first post. Kind of a pain that posting on the thread does not automatically keep it "up to date".

I am not watching 22 forums. Why does it think I am? Just one more screwed up function that worked perfectly well before.

Thanks Anna. I did that after the first time I posted on the thread after the changes. On my home page, the forums that I am watching are all still there, just none of them have updated since shortly after Noon on the 9th of December. I have both read and posted on some of the threads a few times since then, and just to make sure, I did indeed click on the WATCH icon.

I am trying like others to learn my way around this universe which has shifted a bit unexpectedly. I actually saw the update plans that Terry and Melody put up before the action occurred, but innocently I did not realize just what it meant. But what is is what is - I (and others) will adjust after we settle down. I am finding it a bit difficult to sort out what are the latest posts, but am figuring that out (obviously 4m is newer than 2d. I am seeing some thread topics in a green color - does this have any significance?

My second biggest issue is one mentioned by many others - coming into a thread on page 1, having to click on page 4, and then go to the bottom and then slowly scroll back up to find the last one I read. It was really nice when the computer could take me to the last one before - oh well, old days and old ways.

Thank you, Terry and Melody, for trying your best. Don't throw us all overboard just because some are getting too rambunctious - just steady the craft.

I just noticed that the messages in a thread are alternating between gray and white. I actually like this (I have no excuse why it took me all day to notice this). But it is a good way to separate posts. I hope others like it. The blank gray spots that should be ads can simply by ignored - they do not trouble me.

Hey - dates are appearing!! Way to go! Everybody - the boat has stopped rocking and is getting underway. I will now be quiet - but problems are being addressed.

YAY! There are complete dates now. Thank you!

>>messages in a thread are alternating between gray and white.

I see more of a pink than a gray. [Maybe I'll play with the setting on my monitor to see if I can't make some changes. ]

I think it's all the white that the folks who have vision troubles are having issues with.

Looks like the blank grey boxes where ads would be are gone now for those of us who have the ad preference set to off. Another bug fixed :-)

Terese, mine are more pink than grey, so don't worry about adjusting.

thanks Anna -- I was tweaking, then modified that tweak and now they are much pinker. LOL. I'll live with it. ;-)

I have seen the layout/interface of Dave's Garden change two times now since coming on board in 2010. Like many other websites (such as Wordpress), changes are indeed made to accommodate the growing number of users who use cell phones and tablets, oftentimes their only window on the Internet.

Websites that change in an effort to become increasingly mobile-device friendly are a fact of life. It happens. It is something that we must accept. Yet I must note that the font sizes and colors that are chosen are not the best for aging eyes.

For example, each time I visit Wordpress to choose a layout for my blog, my search terms are "large font" or "dark font" and "large photos"—because that is what pleases my eyes. I have been a desktop girl for decades, only recently acquiring a small, second-hand iphone and beginning to use that for the Internet as well.

Some changes to traditional desktop layouts look better on hand-held devices than on a desktop computer.

As much as we may not like it, we live in a world in which many people are on the go. Many do not even have homes with desks and desktop computers. Even laptop usage is outdated, it seems these days. Being tied down to a desktop has become old-fashioned. We will probably end up being in the minority after a while.

I wonder if site design as a science could accommodate the preferences of both mobile users and desktop users simultaneously (with different designs) in addition to the usual responsive layouts that come with such change.

I see some things that have improved and some glitches have been fixed...Thank You guys for that... but I still find the new format very confusing and not at all user-friendly plus all the bright white gives me a headache.

Also, count me as another member that doesn't like having to go from page-to-page within a thread. I thought that was why we start a new page with a new number of an ongoing thread when the thread gets too long.

Since the change (even though some of the glitches have been fixed) I find myself avoiding DG. It reminds me too much of some other sites I've never bothered with because I don't like the formats or layouts.

I really miss the familiarity of DG. It felt like home. Now it feels alien.

I keep reading complaints about the lack of attentiveness or response from administrators to dissatisfied subscribers. Just for grins and giggles...what is the ratio of subscribers to members? Are we allowed to know that because once upon a time we could find that out in each community and it was pitifully few actual subscribers. I don't know who or what is paying the bills but I personally think the subscribers fees pay for the coffee and little else. That is why I think the outraged howls erupting as a consequence of the latest changes don't mean much in the great scheme of things.

I keep reading that the anticipation is that we will get used to changes. There is expectation that the howls will slow to growls and eventually will go away. I think that is true. People will leave but others will stay.

What I object to is that I feel like I am being patted on the head like a child and made to feel like I am resistant to change (dare I say old and resistant) and the howls were anticipated as an unfortunate but expected (poor) behavioral response to change. "There there...you will get used to it.."

In my business course work ( Management and Organizational Development ) we studied organizations that implemented change successfully ...but .....the real focus of much of the coursework was organization that managed change poorly and disappeared as a result.

I think the executive leadership at Daves G needs a bit of that coursework. Or..maybe no motivation because I think it is the total membership that indirectly pays the bills...the value of captured collective eyes. The value in accessing the masses. Just like Facebook...it's free too....and AOL.... Daves Garden membership grows every day doesn't it?

A point worth making is that if I were brand new..bought that first house and never picked up a shovel before...and needed a recommendation for a shrub for a sunny spot...and stumbled across Daves Garden today...well, I might join if it were free..but I don't think I would keep coming back..one trip around the page....one attempt to find that sun loving shrub ....well that search would not grab me in a positive way. It isn't exciting and the site is hard to navigate. It is just not well done.

So, the thinking is it is a change and I'll get used to it. Well, I sort have gotten used to my vision declining. My hips hurt and I have to put up with that and I do. I can't remember facts like I used to. I forget words sometimes and I have had to get used to those mini lapses. Clearly I'm not the well oiled machine I was at 25. My kids don't listen like I want them to..I have accepted that. I can't sleep with the doors unlocked and so I lock them. Hershey's chocolate has changed its formula from what I remember.

Getting USED to things....ACCEPTING things that don't work as well as they once did may be a fact of life...but that doesn't make it the better outcome. It certainly should not be the desired outcome...not when those things are subpar to what once was. That is a major theme at DG it seems.."we are not going to change many things that you do not like...give it time...you will get used to it." OK ...but where is the recognition from administration IN THE PRINTED WORD that while some ( the majority ) of these changes may be serving a necessary administrative purpose,mthe changes ARE NOT IMPROVEMENTS for the end user?? We know the page doesn't read as easily. We know that the functionality for members took a hit ..please don't tell us it is better. Don't tell us it is an improvement. Don't suggest our disatisfaction is purely a consequence of resistance to change. That is so darn insulting. Express a little bit of ...your bestest site took a hit. We are sorry. We know it doesn't read as easily. We know it is plodding. We know there are bugs in enormous amounts. Maybe we rolled out prematurely.. Sentiments like that would go a long way towards calming those outraged howls. Don't scold us for being dissatisfied. Don't imply the repetitiveness of the complaints are tedious. We know we are singing the same song. Give some credit that we know diminishing return when we encounter it.

I know I am lomg winded. I know if I don't renew my membership DG will survive. If MISSINGrosie goes missing no big deal. But know this too...some bean counter sitting somewhere will realize that total membership doesn't translate to constant viewership. The utilization of this site will go down and with it...the value to the owners.

And now...I will "Preview" the post...something I have no interest in doing. And, after I Preview and send it...(hoping it will not vanish) ..well, then I will end up on the very first page of this thread......but what does it matter...it is just one big vast ocean of too small font on a too bland page. But...I'll get used to it, right?



This message was edited Dec 12, 2015 2:09 AM

This message was edited Dec 12, 2015 9:31 PM

Well said.

Well said missingrosie. For your information, as of 4/1/2013 there were 4504 subscribers, the earliest Weekly Newsletter I have on this computer. I know in years earlier it was a much higher number. As of 12/15/2014, the last week DG included this statistic, the count was down to 2798, a 38% decline in 20 months. So now we are down to some 2,000-odd subscribers. Little wonder there is so little traffic on the specialized forums available to subscribers.

You are correct, subscriber fees do little more than pay for coffee. The importance of subscribers WAS their contribution to the specialized forums that made this organization the "go to" site for gardening knowledge. As subscriber traffic has declined, forums become dormant and are eliminated ("combined"). The decline in traffic feeds upon itself, with remaining participants drifting away due to lack of activity.

It is evident that at some level the organization does not care about subscribership and what it brings to the site. Even before this latest PR fiasco I believe that subscribership had fallen to too low a level to sustain the quality of expertise. I am sure that subscribership will suffer a significant decline in the coming months, though it will be impossible to document since those statistics are no longer made public.

The bugs are slowly being fixed and for that I thank you.

The reason for this post, however, is to report that I have lost yet another post due to that blasted, unneeded and repeatedly detrimental preview button.

Please see the new thread here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1411330/

I am with almost all other members in hating these changes. All of them.. hate the advertisements. Hate not being able to go directly to new posts. Hate being told "here's an example of a message" duh - which isn't there. Hate being told to review my post.

DG worked fine the way it was. No one sems to like ANY of the "improvements."

And Admin is ignoring clear messages from members. Maybe DG needs new administrators who will listen to members - while you still have some.

Everyone hates these changes. Get it?

I guess not.

katie

Apparently in this meeting where the changes were prioritized, it was decided that responsiveness to subscriber criticism of the leadership would be looked after all the other "annoying" things they need to fix. I would like to know why this is not urgent compared to repairs that would never have been necessary (and remain unnecessary) if they had reverted to a functioning interface as soon as it became obvious the new one was seriously flawed. And left it that way while they (not us) did the beta testing.

Can you please explain if I am not understanding the facts as they have evolved here? Can we please get some transparency about the paying membership and what their money goes to pay for (other than coffee)?

This message was edited Dec 12, 2015 12:21 PM

I too had no idea this was happening and I visit here just about every day.
I'll know in a few days if I like it or not. Not that it matters.

I am seeing NO UPDATES to the forums I subscribe to since yesterday on the home page. What's the deal? People can't leave anything alone. It wasn't broke so why "fix" it?

For those of you that may have missed it, Terry started a new thread that discusses what has been fixed and what is still being worked on. That's where you should be posting problems and glitches.

I don't think Terry will be answering questions on this thread any longer.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1411330/%3C/blockquote%3E%20%3C/div%3E%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Cdiv%20class=

Well that answers my questions then. Thank you for the note.

HATE It!

Why on earth am I now having a ton of space taken up with 130 pages of Vegetable Gardening Discussion Forum? I once followed a single thread in there and want to unsubscribe from and unwatch everything in that forum.

How do I do that?

It reminds me of GW format. Did you guys get bought out by them ? I like the old way also. Terry you and Dave have done an awesome job for years. I don't know why the changes, but I don't care for then.
Wishing you all the very best in life. This is not Dave's Garden to me. Good Bye.