2015 Seed Starting, Part 5

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:49 AM

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/
is where I get my supplies.

I have used them several times for seed flats, pots, bulk perlite, bulk vermiculite, etc...

Debsroot Walmart sells both vermiculite and perlite in season. I hate to spend money on shipping if I don't have to.

You can also buy to pick up at lots of stores. It's becoming quite common. Sears, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, The Container store, the list goes on. Walmart too. I make it a practice to order what I want for pick-up. They give you a receipt to print out and scan at the store.

With some stores, like Sears, they have a designated pick-up area so that you don't even have to go inside. In fact, Sears will bring it to your car, and has a special section where only customers awaiting pick-up can park. You can walk ten feet into the building, or you can call or text them from your car. You don't even have to get out of your car! And the deliveries are timed, which gives staff incentive to move it along. Sometimes when I walk in they ask to scan it for me. Lose your receipt? Just produce the card you used to charge the item; they can scan your order from it. They will offer to carry anything heavy. And they refuse, politely, tips (I tried). In fact, on two separate occasions Sears put together my Shop-Vac and lawn mower in the store and then loaded it into the back of my car and secured it. At Home Depot, when I asked about getting the lawn mower home, they suggested I go rent a truck from them, and take it home and put it together myself. And bring the truck back. The rental would have added $50 to the cost. Which is why I don't shop at Home Depot (the security breach didn't help).

And the people who do this for you are very kind and helpful. Some of my best shopping experiences are with the lovely people who help me to pick up my merchandise.
I do all this without an i-phone. I think I am the only person in the world who doesn't own one!

It's better if you don't have to wade all the way to the back of the store to get your item (which you have to do at Walmart, and sometimes you have a lengthy wait to get what you came for, since they are thinly staffed. And then you have to wade back out).

Ace Value/True-Hardware stores tend to be smaller, so the customer service desk, where your item is held, is often only 20 steps from the door.

It doesn't have to be heavy. And you don't have to wade through crowds and stand at cash registers. See if you can find a local store that has what you need. I really hate shopping at most stores, and will pick up my orders from Sears or other stores that are on route to Trader Joe's (the one store where shopping is a joy), so I don't even have to go out of my way to get my order.

Growerssupply.com has all the parts individually and a GREAT catalog too, from greenhouses to trays, lights, inserts, domes.....etc..give 'em a look. I've ordered a large box of 2 1/2" pots (think it had about 1200). Sometimes you can even find supplies from local wholesalers...(just depends some has a min. order)

Lowes and Home Depot both have vermiculite and peralite in bags (2 qt.) and H. D. has the large bushel bags of either. Some of the larger nurseries in your area might also have seed growing supplies. Call and ask before driving all over the place...lol.

Also betNC, did I get the jist of your question.....how many flats for a 48" light? See pix below. I would think you could do 5 trays under a 48" light. My set up here is 5ft long and about 33-34" wide, per shelf. I can get a total of 7 11"x22" trays on a shelf, and if you can find them ----half trays, they are square and can hold 18 2 1/2" pots. I use to use 6 pack trays but found I could seed more into my pots...see pix 4. Also in pix 3, it shows a foil on the wall.....bought at wallmart, I think they call it a body blanket (sporting goods for about $3.00). I mix my own potting soil from peat and peralite, with a bit of vermiculite as a seed cover. I must grow thousands of seedlings each winter... If you need germination times just ask....... Pix 5 is a sample page from my records.

OK.....they moved all the pix around! LOL.....

I've also learned to dumpster dive at one of my local nurseries for many supplies... Trays, insert, pots, even domes...... they have recycle bins. I ask and they say sure have at it....... I've gotten inserts that are: 96, 105 and 122 per tray...and a few other odd ball sizes too.

This message was edited Dec 23, 2014 9:55 PM

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:49 AM

LOL, I'm thinking next spring I might sell some of my plants: Garden Club and/or Flea Market type setting. Not sure how well I'll do but I can try....lol. If nothing else I can always replant them out in rows and make a cutting garden out of them...Hmmm..Floral Bouquet anyone?! LOL. (You know one of those cutting flower farms)...I've read about them and have a couple of books, but it's time I tried making some money off my hobby and support my habits!!!!

Still trying to decide what to start this year or next. But did dig up several perenns and potting them up now as small babies to grow on til spring and then move up to larger pots (in unheated hoop house) if the plastic decides to stay on. We had terrible winds yesterday and have much to repair.......good thing it was tied down!!!!!! It doesn't look like this today!!!!! (pix) Darn, hey Santa....I want nice weather and lots of snow this winter....Thanks!!!!!

Merry Christmas everyone and Happy Holidays!!!!!!!

Thanks, all for the advice!

Being physically challenged and living in a VERY small town, limits my PHYSICAL accessibility to supplies!! While there's no Sears within my driving distance, there IS a Walmart (and my favorite Lowe's.....also our #2: Home Depot, as well as a very small Ace Hardware)!! I already got those mylar survival blankets, but I'll have to exercise a little patience until Walmart puts out seed starting supplies again. . . patience, pppfffftttt! I'll let my fingers do the walking and see if I can order them, pick them up at the store (no shipping charge).

There's a feed store I can get to with a gardening section: I'm "shopping" online, bookmarking stuff to buy (peat moss, fertilizer etc): there's no shipping charges (they'll order stuff for me if they run out), they'll load it for me and my garden helper will unload it at my place!! Easy peasy!!

Although I don't really like shipping charges, in the long run it really IS better for me to just silently pay it and have stuff delivered to my door: I have a greater access (the whole
Web) than most others whose choices are limited to those brick-and=mortar stores!

I can't hardly WAIT to start!!

I'm with you, I buy nearly everything on line so I can get exactly what I want. I garden in CT, but in the winter the house is closed and we live in an apartment in NYC. The local HD is the best source (on a very short list) for supplies. The city store doesn't carry a fraction of what's available outside the city. They have perlite but not vermiculite, and the only seed starting mix they have is Miracle Grow, which I've completely sworn off of. The sell the Burpee's setups, which are fine, but the trays are on the flimsy side and I worry about leaks in the apartment.

My seed starting location is a kitchen window that gets almost no direct light. I've invested in T5 high output lights (http://www.littlegreenhouse.com), extra sturdy trays and self watering systems (indoorgardensupply.com, 6 is all I have room for) and 2.5" pots (http://www.greenhousemegastore.com) to make the most of it. Pic is from last year.

pfg, what a wonderful set=up!!

I admire your ingenuity!!! I'm starting to worry WHERE I will locate my indoo gro......I must have measure near about every flat surface in my apartment....inCLUDING my kitchen windowsill! (thus far, I haven't found any where but my bed that's at least 59 inches. . . . and THAT'S taken!!! LOL) There's always the floor!!! HAHAHA

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!!

My window opening is 44" but I use 48" lights. They stick out a little on the end but I don't mind. The shelves are cut to fit inside the window frame, and 2 11x22" flats just barely fit end to end. The trays are full of water, and the pots are on a platform on capillary matting which wicks the water up to them. I used to have a problem of pots falling off the back when I was re-arranging them- they'd end up on top of the plants on the windowsill, a big mess. Finally I put a couple of extra shelves standing up along the back, that worked perfectly.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll find a way. My system evolved over time, I started very simply and refined and added as I went along.

Pam,

I agree, T-5 lights are great. They came with my tabletop garden from Gardeners Supply. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they are superior (If not cheaper than) the 40 watt florescent lights I used before. And when I ordered this kit, the frame was slightly bent from having been dinged - so they told me to keep the lights and soil and cells, and sent me a new frame with new lights! Given that the cost of 2 T's is $25 on their site, I was pretty happy.

I really think they should go back to allowing people to pay for it in installments. $249 isn't bad at all if you divide it into 8 payments, which they allowed me to do.

And by the way, BetNC, I keep it on the FLOOR! It's in the corner of my office. I wanted to put it in my basement but there are too many windows there - the glass block kind - so it never gets dark enough. And in my office I keep a better eye on it.

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents. I started the heat mat and light up about 3 weeks ago. Yesterday I went into the guest bedroom (where I have the set-up) to clean for Christmas company. I found black mold on the wall! Icky icky. Well it was obvious it had just started up although the patch was good sized. I cleaned it up with some bleach water and then fired up the dehumidifier. Keep an eye on the humidity level if you have your germination set-up in your house. Mold can do a lot of damage in a short time if you don't catch it. Lucky for me I saw it before it had a chance to even discolor the walls.

And I agree with Pam that your system starts very simply and evolves over time. I ended up with three sets of shoplights and hundreds of plants in my former home. I got into such a habit of growing them that once I finally decided what perennials I wanted that I ended up putting them in pots EVERYWHERE!

Top of front porch left.

Top right.

Full view left.

Full view right.

I also had about 13 feet of wall in the back, as well as retaining walls, all covered with plants. These were the LEFTOVERS! You know a person has lost it when she blocks access to the staircase with plants!

Here is a sample from the back retaining wall. I loved packing pots and then putting them in front of other plants. The plants are cerinth, a North American Lily society stem, and salvia farinacea. This was in August, and the whole pot would be in bloom in September.

We crossposted.

That's good advice, Dome. Good air circulation is important. It's not an issue in the Midwest, where we have to crank up the humidifier in the winter (my lips are still chronically chapped) but in damper climates it's important. I used to run a small fan in my basement in the summer when it got humid..

You know we really don't think about humidity here, it's so dry outside most of the time. But a little rain and the humidity can really go up. My dome is set 3' underground so it probably is more like a basement in some respects. I put those trays in there with wet soil and heat and it just pushed it up high enough to create mold.
You guys are talking about what to do with extra plants. I have a few "plant sales" in spring and it brings in enough to restock my potting soil and buy some more pots. I mean even at $2. or $3. a plant you can make a hundred dollars pretty fast. People show up and get excited at how cheap and nice your plants are and buy lots of them. I advertise on Craig's list and put a sign out on the road with an arrow. It's worth the effort when you go through as much potting soil as I do, LOL.

Kathy, there's an idea for you... It would get people to you, instead of having to guess what plants to bring to a sale.

Donna, your 'extra' plants look so pretty! By April 1, when we re-open the house, mine are spilling over too. I can't put grow lights in the living room, DH is easy going but would hate that. But shade lovers do fine tucked in among small pots of crocus, Tete-a-tetes or the like, or just on their own. Then they make the trip to the country, usually one flat at a time so I can make sure nothing lands on top of my babies, lol.

Pics 3,5 is my setup in 2011, the first year I got serious about starting perennials early in the city. The lights are T5, bought from HD... But then I found out they're not the high output, give off only 1/2 the light as the ones meant for the garden. Now I've jerry-rigged a frame so I can double them up, and use them for plants that don't need full sun to do their best.
Pic 4- Happy plants after the move

Edited to correct photo numbering!

This message was edited Dec 25, 2014 10:01 AM

Pam, I love the vision of your babies being lovingly nurtured in the city and taken to the country. It's so charming.

I got a little crazy but what fun it was! I fund a bunch of blue ceramic pots at a Frank's Nursery and Crafts that was going out of business, and then I kept buying terra cotta pots. The first pic is mostly double petunias and heliotrope grown from seed, with the leaves of a bailei linden on the rioght, miscanthus gracillimus in the background, and salvia Rose Queen in the ground. I purchased Rose Queens and they croaked. I grew them and they lasted forever. From the other side of the wall, with an Endless Summer given to me by the lovely young man who built the hardscaping, with a viburnum dentatum in the background.

I love your blue pots, what a great find! But oh, Donna, you're so neat!

My collection is such a hodge podge! This is from 2013, a fairly constant scene lasting well through June or even July most years. Last year I vowed not to let that happen, and was fairly successful. It also helped that I had put in some irrigation the year before, so babies could be safely left out of sight and still not shrivel up from neglect.

Hey, I'm in awe of you. I have no idea how I would maintain a garden the size of yours, especially traveling between two homes. Everything would probably look like my office desk, which is a disaster 365 days a year.

I think my favorites were the weird combos from seed. I never liked petunias until Tidal Wave Silver came out, and I discovered that I could not only grow them but overwinter them. I grew them for my hanging pots in the front, but found they looked smashing with eragrostis tef and two colors of heliotrope (OK, I bought the white). A lot of the time I would just put seedlings in pots and let them develop.

I am thinking of putting in hardscaping because I loved it so much. Some of it was serendipitous. A lovely 26 year old named Adam had just started his own company, having worked for other people. He had helped build a patio and deck for a friend of mine. The friend was anal, and the work was gorgeous, so we contacted Adam. It was his first project on his own. It started small and got bigger and bigger. It also ran over time and budget, but he worked so hard, the result was stunning, and it was easily 30% under market. Better yet, we decided that we needed something between our two walls to give us privacy, so I ordered a huge redwood trellis. He felt strongly about the project and wanted to do the trellis. So I had it delivered to his house, where he put five coats of paint on it, and delivered installed it with cement - for $500.

Then I found a big red zone 4 Canadian rose, Quadra, bought two, and within about three years, complete freaking privacy!!! There is a huge table, 8 chairs, an umbrella, and a big grill on the deck, and you can't see any of it. You could go naked in the yard if you so desired. Would you believe this is 2 roses? And they could be left on the trellis all winter. And the new growth was soft, so it was easy to train. Beautiful flowers, too (alas, no scent - but you can't have everything).

I miss my garden! I am so happy for you that you have the ability to create whatever you like in the country and then go to a really lovely section of New York for the winter. You are obviously such a doll - no one deserves what seems like a nice life more. The country is nice, the city is great. It's all good.

Merry Christmas country mouse, city mouse!

Donna

Merry Christmas everyone.
Donna the rose is stunning. You are all such inspirations. I was going back and looking at the pictures. Blomma I am now going to have to try to start these coral bell seeds I have. Yours are just stunning. I'd love to have a nice patch of them. Do you think I should start them on the mat or out in the unheated greenhouse? The seed is like dust it is so fine.

The grass is always greener...

I love that we're all dedicated and determined to live with beauty, no matter how many obstacles and distractions get in the way. Sooner or later we dive back in and eventually our visions and reality get more in sync... Not to suggest that we're ever satisfied, lol!

DH and I are off to brunch a deux and a walk to Rockefeller center to see the tree. Family are all dispersed, but holiday obligations have been or will be attended to.

Merry Christmas to all!

Dear Dome,

If it's any help, my JL Hudson heuchera Firefly, seed to put to seed starting mix on the 14th of this month, has a 25% germination rate as of this morning. I'm impressed. The seed is from 2008!

It does require about 70 degrees to germinate. Mine are under lights, not on a heat mat. How warm is your unheated greenhouse? It would need that temperature for about 16-18 hours a day. And they are surface seeders. I keep a long pinky finger nail to help me pick up seeds!

I want a nice patch of them too. Blomma's are stunning!

Donna

One of my Christmas presents was a thermostat for my big germination mat. This is good because it seems to be a lot hotter than the small ones. It's probably made to be used with a thermostat, more of a professional nursery mat.
My unheated greenhouse gets nice and warm during the day, another Christmas present was a new thermometer/humitity for the greenhouse. I put in a roof vent last summer so and it's getting cold at night so I need to build some kind of insulated door so I can keep all that heat in at night. It rarely freezes here so I doubt it will ever get too cold in there. The little seedlings seem to like it in there, nothing beats real sunlight even when the days get short.

How wonderful that your friends or family listen closely to what you want. That must be a real pleasure!

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:52 AM

Hi Blomma, I'd really like your input into something.

I have never deliberately stratified my seeds, but my germinating Coral bell seeds are from 2008, and have been in the refrigerator since I received them. Do you think that the fact that I always keep my seeds in the refrigerator (40 degrees) means that they are already stratified but lying dormant for lack of moisture? It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And I have never put them in soil in the fridge. I just leave them in their packs, sealed in a container, and take them out when I want to germinate them.

Do you think I have just stumbled onto something that works? Last year I germinated a bunch of seed I had collected the seed in 1998, and got 90% germination.

I keep all my seed in the frig too. I have on occasion used a "wet" cold stratification but I think most of the time just keeping the seeds in the frig has done the job for me. But I grow for zone 9 and none of the plants I grow NEED cold. Coral Bells are native to North America and the southwest so they may not need wet/cold, it's hard to say. I am by no means an expert germinator, but I try. There's really not enough germination information out there for my liking.

Oh, of course. I forgot about the ramifications of growing in your zone.

Not only is there never quite enough information, but some of it is conflicting (needs darkness, needs light. It took me years to realize that barely cover is code for needs light. The assumption on their part is that you are germinating outside and you are worried about the elements taking the seed away. How can they know that my seeds have 4 star accommodations?

Good Morning! Whew, snow overnight, got 3 1/2" so far and another 2-3" today maybe before it moves out..... Drove home last night in sleeting snow and then heavy fog.... Got the driveway cleared now and I'm ready for more...lol.

Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday....(whatever you celebrate), lol, me, I'm celebrating the snow at the moment.....YEAH!!!!!!! Nice blanket on all my new babies. Now the catalogs will begin arriving, got my first a couple of days ago but am looking forward to alllllll the new ones for the season. Winter dreaming, making want lists.. circle this, circle that, you all know how that is.. One positive benefit is now the days will be getting longer!!!!!!

My hoophouse came down in the winds the other day, darn! Was out the in 45mph winds the other morning trying to tie it down so the plastic wouldn't blow away.....now I need warm weather and melting to put it back on but am thinking it will be at least a week before that happens as cold temps next week will be below zero. PHOOEY!

FYI, I started a new thread for the new year in the design forum. We have to think about where to put all the new babies!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1383471/

I'm itching to start seeds, it feels really strange not to... I just have to keep reminding myself that this year I need to let things fill in. Late March/early April is just fine for sowing the annuals I want.

Meanwhile, I'm browsing books, catalogues, websites... And dreaming :-)

Kathy,
Glad you made it home safely! Sorry to hear about your hoophouse....hope you're able to make repairs fairly easily when the storm is gone. 60 degrees here when we woke up yesterday.....feels like spring. Temps dropped to 40s and nice weekend near 50 expected. Hope to start my wintersowing early Jan. But gee.....Temps are pretty mild!

We got no snow at all! We are in some kind of sweet spot. 8 feet of snow to the east. Ten feet of snow to the north. 50 degrees today.

I am definitely jumping the gun on seed staring,but I am doing all perennials right now. I have also ordered more seed from Hazzard's. The germination is some of the fastest I've ever seen. The annuals will definitely be in the future.

I just got 7 of 8 Rose Queen Salvia from Swallowtail to germinate in 12 days; they predicted 21 to 30 days. I've struggled to germinate this plant,and I am thrilled. I used to grow it at my former home.

Right now the Hazzards and Swallowtail seeds are all germinating very strongly. More seeds are coming from Hazzards: thalictrum rochebrunianum, arabis caucausica Snowfix (they noted that it does not require vernalization), nepeta sibirica (which looks like Souvenir d'Andre Chaudron to me, which would be great, because it's a very expensive nepeta) and some MORE Firefly.

The thalictrum is a plant that is better in groups. I bought 8 years ago and they expanded to 16, but they were inexpensive then.

All of these are surface seeders. I love those. Getting soil on top of little seeds is one of those things that make me nuts.

I am now putting into soil a double perlemutter platycodon Pam was kind enough to send me.

Oh good! I hope it does well!

What is the difference between Thalictrum rochebrunianum and T delavayi? I've never been able to figure out which one I have. When I google, the flowers look the same. Mine get quite tall in CT, about 6', but in Southampton, where I grew the parent plants in more sun, they were shorter. This year I moved a bunch of 2 yr old seedlings to a brighter spot, hoping they'll show up better. Pic is a mature plant, from 2011.

My impression, which may be wrong, is that delavayi is bushier. One of my favorites, gotten from a trade with a DGr, is 'Black Stockings'. It made a successful transition from my former home (pic 2) to my new one, and then I allowed nasturtiums to swamp it. So it's on my Forest Farm list.

I had that one and was disappointed when it bloomed. There are volunteers of that type and timing of plant here and there in the garden already, albeit without the dark stems. I had been hoping for the later version, more like the one I thnk might be delavai. I gave my Black Sockings to DD, who loves it.

Donna...if that Salvia n. Rose Qn.doesn't grow for you let me know I have about a dozen in the garden...will share!!! (Used to have all 3 but have lost the white somewhere over the years...all from seed too (Blue, White and Rose Qns). (need some Blue Qn?)

T. delvayi..3ft, rosey-lilac with yellow anthers. T. rochebrunianum.. 5ft., reddish-lilac with glabrous foliage. (from Bluebird catalog desrciption) I just planted some new ones this fall....I think both var. and T. aquilegifolium too. Sure wish I still had seeds for the T. flavum, (yellow 3-5ft, blue foliage) grew it from seed, waited 2 yrs for it to bloom and it was gorgeous, then I moved ....(forgot to collect seed..darn! LOL).

More snow on the way and below zero temps for a few days (Tues and Wed)..but a nice blanket is already out there and another 3-6" due starting tomorrow.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 6:51 PM