2015 Seed Starting, Part 5

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 8:45 PM

Regarding spider mites, I have found that they like to attack plants under stress and it has less to do with humidity or dry areas. The best way to fight spider mites is to allow enough space between plants for air circulation. I live in hot, humid Texas and we have mites, but if I allow space I have much better success fending them off.

My area of Tx is dry, not humid and certainly not as humid as the east coast. I can't say I have a problem with mites now bc I recognize the symptoms. Basically the plant just dries up but it can happen very fast. I have info from the local extension agency and a book on Texas Gardening by Neil Spears. They both mention marigolds and spider mites and how SM reproduce so much faster in hot dry conditions. Some DGs fight mites by simply keeping the plant's leaves wet. I haven't had an issue with them in a while but our area has had more rain then normal.

Mlm, good to know about the epimedium. I have that one ordered for spring (Bluestone, on sale) for a new section which is pretty far from the house. I'm hoping it will show up eventually when there's enough of it.

I ordered the Book of Blue Flowers... My wannabe blue garden needs help! Good ol' Amazon... I also found your 2 outlet timer there for 33.95. How does anyone else stay in business?!

When I first came to the garden 8 years ago, one of the first things I did was sprinkle myosotis seeds in a shady area. I've had plenty ever since- they've migrated all over the place, along with the Johnny Jump-ups strewn aroun at the same time. I love them both, only pull them when they're in the way. But I'll have to try cynoglossum- bluer, you say? And a longer bloom period? Yummmmmm...

For petunias, I've had good luck with Easy Wave. I like starting them myself so they're not all bloomed out before I get them planted. I'm not so attentive, though, mine don't get deadheaded, and only I use Osmacote once, after I pot them up.

All you who started seeds already: How's the germination coming? What's up ?

Pam,
What is the deep blue flower in your 3rd/middle photo? Am I missing what is it in your post?
VERY pretty

I think I may have to get some of those Epimediums. I will probably start them from seed. I will have to read as to how difficult it might be. The dry shade is definitely a plus.
Stephanie
I had not heard about Spider Mites and Marigolds and Tomatoes. Sheesh! I can't believe it. I've been putting Marigolds around my tomaotes the last couple of years and wondering why they haven't produced well. I had suspision of marigolds being the possible cause this past summer, although, I had never read anything about them. Well, absolutely no marigolds this year. Thanks for your in put.
I have a LOT of blue flowers in my gardens. I like them and they go with everything. I also like white in my gardens. It shows up at night and of course goes with everything. Lots of purples go with lots of bloom colors also.

Here's the seeds I WS today:
Iberis sempevirens
Cheiranthus allonii
Alyssum saxitilis
Lychinis chalcedonia
Echinacea purpurea 'White Swan'
Penstemon grandiflorus, spectabilis, cobaea
Centaurea montana
Aubrieta cultorum 'Whitewall Gem'
Galardia pulchella 'Red Plume'
Aquilegia caerula "Rocky Mountain', McKana Giants
Digitalis purpurea 'Apricot Beauty'

valal ~ It looks like Ajuga reptans to me.

I grew that Alyssum saxatilis a few years ago from seed. What a good plant, I still have three of them, one is like 3' x 3' now.
Aren't marigolds supposed to repel grubs? I had them around the outside of my vege garden with no issues. But I don't grow the tomatoes in there, I do them in the green house.
The only buggies I get en' masse are the aphids on the milkweeds. They seem to stay there so I'm ok with it.

Evelyn, you're right, it's Ajuga. There's a lot of it here, and I use it a lot to fill in when I'm not sure what I really want. Eventually it gets kicked out of one bed and 'parked' somewhere else for a while. That particular patch may be permanent, as it's keeping weeds from between the rocks on and around the steps. There's also a small patch of myosotis in the pic, and more outside the frame.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 8:29 PM

@Birder17: I'm new to this forums, so I don't get that WS- abbreviation - but I thought stuff like the digitalis etc shouldn't be sowed before may? Is there any advantage doing it in midwinter?
Actually, I know very few stuff to sow before February, and most only makes sense from March onwards, but that may be because I never used artificial lighting before - I'll try it this year.

About all that Tomato&Marigold stuff: I had no trouble planting both together. Actually, I noticed no effect on the tomatoes, but the marigold was healthier than ever. Then again, that might be because my tomato place is a slug-safe fortress - and if Tagetes attract anything in my climate, it's slugs. I just realized in English you use the term "marigold" on nearly any small yellow flower, so maybe the sources mean different plants? I used Tagetes tenuifolia, Orange Gem to be precise, since it's not just ornamental, but also delicious.

Around here, Spider mites are only a mayor problem indoors or maybe on balconies - never seen one mite out in the open. but starting last year, whiteflies became a problem - let's hope that's a one-year special....

Hi pmmGatak, welcome to the forum!

In English marigold usually means tagetes, sometimes calendula (English, or Pot Marigolds). Gardeners try to use the botanical names to prevent confusion. Tagetes repel nematodes in the soil, which is helpful in growing tomatoes, and which is why they are so often recommended as companion plants. However in some parts of the country and in certain conditions, as 1Lisac has said, they attract spider mites.

WS means Winter Sowing, which is a method for starting plants early outside. Birder and many others here have been very successful at it, they can explain it better than I can.

Many of us - including me- use lights and heat mats to start perennials indoors very early. A sunny, warm room may be enough for many plants, but in my city apartment, where I do my early sowing, I need all the extras. Only one window, which gets very little ambient light, is convenient to use. For the last few years I've kept adding equipment a little at a time, heated mats with a thermostat for germination and high output T-5 lights, the best I could find. Last year I had the best results yet.

Good luck to you! There is a wealth of information on this thread and on these forums, and many wonderful gardeners are generous with their knowledge and experience to help others. Happy gardening!

Hi pmmGatak,

Yes, I too start plants indoors. I actually started in December. I once seeded platycodons in January, put them in the ground in July, and they bloomed in October. I only do this with perennials, using the process Pam outlined so well. I have been doing it for about ten years.

Having started in December, I have germination on salvia verticillata (it is so advanced that some of it has been pulled from cells and potted up for a week), and I have germination on salvia Rose Queen and Heuchera Firefly.

In February I usually start plants like salvia farinacea and petunias. In April salvia viridis (almost instant germination). I use my records from the past to give me an idea of when to start in my climate.

I used to have, in my former home, in the dark basement, three shop lights and would grow hundreds of seedlings. I stopped when I moved to a house with too much light from the basement windows to render any room dark enough, but bought a lighting setup. Like Pam, I have T-5 lights - great! I used to use simple 40 watt florecent lights, but I would hang them from the wood beams in the basement (no can do here), and I also have a lot of southern exposure, and have actually germinated seeds there in a later part of the year.

After a couple of years of not doing it I realized that where there is a will there is a way. I am growing an out of commerce plant I love (white salvia verticillata). Iit doesn't get better than that!

Speaking of ajuga!

I used to have a client who lived in a retirement community, and the small planting beds in front of each home were planted for them. Their choice for hers was ajuga - which of course consumed the entire bed. I saw her on a monthly basis, and when she opened the door her first remark was consistently "I hate ajuga!" Which is why I would cringe when I saw it. Looking back on that, I laugh now. A perfectly good plant used correctly.

One of my favorite cover plants is parsley. I started some in my old garden around roses. It's fabulous because it tends to spread, but gently. It's gorgeous and it's edible.

But best of all, some of it would bloom and attract the most wonderful creatures.

And it stick around. I planted it once - these pictures are over a three year period. So it's in two places in my new yard, being encouraged to spread. The variety is "crispum" and last year I got germination from my Swallowtail seed from 2007!

Haha... I would hate ajuga too, if I had only one small bed and that was the only plant in it! But years ago someone put some in our lawn, to naturalize and just be a pretty flower here and there in the spring. There are a few varieties, including one wonderful dark leaf. A few years ago I appropriated some for a bare spot or two, and they have done what ajuga does best- multiplied generously. Now that I have a brand new bare area, I forsee a future for the surplus, lol.

I've been intrigued by your use of parsley, Donna, but haven't yet done anything about it. Maybe this year...

It's the coolest plant. It handles successive frosts, so I was still going out and cutting it to dine upon in December. The trickiest part is transplanting it. I found the best way to handle it is to germinate it on the surface of small peat pots and then transfer the entire pot. It is quite tap rooted, so it needs to be transplanted intact. It took me a few tries to figure that out. But the tap root is why it survives year after year. And if it does flower it then sets seed and does all the work for you.

It does take a while to germinate. Do I remember about 8 weeks?

I remember I was dreading starting it again but it turned out to be a piece of cake. I have it in two locations and it is beginning to spread.

This is not the world's greatest pic, since it is at the beginning of last season, but I am working on a combo of feverfew, heuchera (this one was newly divided), nepeta snowflake and parsley. All great groundcover plants. Geraniums were also nearby. (picture 1)

Then I popped in a rose. David Austins The Dark Lady. I will often put in plants that attract beneficial insects when I know a rose is arriving. It is important to get roses that are not subject to disease and insect damage. This way - no chemicals.(picture 2)

And then it all comes together when the rose blooms. If it's a low grower, I like to try to get the effect of a bright flower appearing from no where.(picture 3)

Welcome pmmGarak!
Starting things from seed is a lot of fun. Last year I did a bit of Winter Sowing. I did not have a lot of success, but I did get some plants. I am going to try again and bought some seeds of perennials from cold climates just for WS (It would not work for species from warm climates that do not want cold). One of the best things about it is you can do the setting up and seed sowing in the dead of winter, when you have time because there is no weeding or watering or mowing. I am now busy looking at seed and plant catalogs. Did you know there is a whole separate forum for Winter Sowing?

There are many types of Tagetes (Marigolds). The one I used as a companion plant to tomatoes is T. patula (French Marigold).

Here in the West, Calendula officinalis is called Pot Marigold/English Marigold and grows to 2 ft high. Not be confused with T. patula (French Marigold)

I used to grow Parsley on my windowsill years ago when I lived in a house with decent sized windows. Now, when I grow it in the ground and before winter, I pick it, run it through my blender and fill ice trays with the chopped up Parsley and keep it in the freezer to use as needed. More flavorful than store bought. Parsley is an biennial.

Ajuga is easy to control since it does not spread by underground roots. Only by runners, like strawberry. It really keeps the weeds down.

pmmGarak Welcome to Daves. What growing zone are you in?

1] Floribunda 'Angel Face'. It is one of the most scented roses with mauve blooms.
2] Floribunda 'Red Knockout'

All blooms all summer after a short rest inbetween.

I'll bet you have noticed, Blomma, that despite the fact that parsley is a biennial it turns up every year? If mine doesn't bloom it returns, because it hasn't done its job of reproducing until it does. And the few that do bloom give me seed. Personally, I deadhead at least 50% of mine, which guarantees its return.

DonnaMack,
No wonder yours return even though it is a biennial. Dead heading will usually assure that. For some reason, I never deadheaded. I deadheaded everything else for reblooms.

I always deadhead biennials to avoid gaps. I noticed that digitalis grandiflora is supposed to be a biennial or short lived perennial. By deadheading a portion it, you guarantee that it doesn't "bloom itself to death" so some plants come back year after year while others start from dropped seed so you always have some. I started with three and because of this technique, I now have 9.

Whereas I always let the lunaria (money plant) in my yard go to seed. I didn't plant it, so I guess I don't appreciate it as much. It appears every other year.

Who says you can't fool Mother Nature - LOL!

Digitalis grandiflora is perennial, and in my garden, long lived. I have clumps that return and expand every year. The seedlings show up in new places. It's such a lovely soft color it fits in everywhere so I usually let it be.

Dome...got your envy in the mail with the Cehalaria seed...thanks!!! If you put soething in the box Amanda will have to ship it to me....

Just a word of caution on the Salvia numerous (blue, pink and white queen), if you happen to dig it for oving or dividing it will send up more roots.......sooooo, be happy with where you plant it!!! LOL.

Birder...it that Anthemis the lovely light yellow or the gold? If the light yellow, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, save me some seed....... I've been trying to locate some. Bluebird use to carry it in their catalog but now onlyhas the gold (last season)... Will trade you for it......lol. And if your Centaureas doen't come fro seed for you I have plants to share....the straight blue (montana) or the white (Amethyst in Snow).......

Ok, I've been skimming trying to get caught up, but will have to finish later, darn...lol. Back later kiddos....Kathy

Pretty plants and talk all ,, My garden ,, A weed debris pile , of stems and seeds , seems to be a winter bird garden ,,
Black eyed Susans that self sow , asters (wild) and the thistle (ouch ) not removed , Seem to be big attractions so far ,,
Hopefully more lupine and Foxglove will return this spring , Not long blooming , only pretty ...
other Weedy type plants like Agastache are a big spring attraction for bees and Hummingbirds !
I miss the crittters this time of year ,..
Ice plant , snapdragons and some saved Geranium are indoors and growing , oh a couple of Campanula .. also .

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 8:42 PM

Thanks for the info on the biennials, I'll try deadheading them. At least the ones I don't need the seeds.
I am interested in your rose seed experiment. There are some old world roses I'd love to try to grow.

Blomma, I always stop deadheading in September but to my surprise I got quite a few blooms in October, which given my zone is probably rather comparable to your September. The Dark Lady, Jude The Obscure, Heritage.

The only kind of rose I have grown from seed is rosa chinensis, which is a miniature. I bought some seed and put three in pots and actually got one each of the colors it comes in - white, red and pink. It's in Plant files:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104555/#b

I only have one picture, and it only has a couple of flowers because I had just deadheaded it. The great thing is that it is zone 5 hardy. Hum - another one I'll grow again. I remember that in winter when it got spider mites, I could just set it outside to zap them - because it was zone 5 hardy - 4, in fact.

Pam, Digitalis grandiflora performs as a perennial in my garden too, but I have read repeatedly that it is biennial and or short lived. Perhaps they are just lumping it in with the more typical digitalis types. After about four years I stopped waiting for it to die!

I had to beg my clients to allow me to deadhead their salvia, and they had Mainacht. They were shocked when it rebloomed, not once, but twice

DonnaMack, Mine bloomed only because we had no frost until later. When frost came, they still had lots of buds that froze. Most likely, they would have continued to bloom as long as there was no frost---wishful thinking in zone 4.

In my Western Garden Encyclopedia, Digitalis grandiflora is listed as an biennial or short lived perennial. Plants bloom to produce seeds to assure their specie to continue. They need to produce a certain number of seeds. That is why dead-heading works to encourage re-blooming.

Here is what I found for germinating Rose seeds from Tom Clothier;

"sow 4m (months) @ 39ºF, move to 70ºF for germ".

I just nicked and now soaking overnight. Will use the Deno method. Will stratify in fridge.

Pam I hate Miracle-Gro potting soil and I think you do too. Last year when I needed potting soil, the only kind I could find was Miracle-Gro Moisture Control Potting Soil. I have to admit, I really like it. No pieces of bark or lumps in the mix. I have my DL seedlings potted in it this year. It is free draining and holds moisture.

"Regional formulated with sphagum peat moss, forest products compost, coir pith fiber, perlite, wetting agent, and fertilizer."

I bought it in Wal-Mart. I suppose by the time I need more, they won't have it any more.

Blomma, I'm in the mid-west and I call Marigolds Tagetes and Pot Marigolds Calendula.
Tagetes petula is the French marigold that's "suppose" to deter pests. (don't believe it)

Kathy, yes, of course, I will share my Argyranthemum coronaria. It hasn't come in the mail yet, but I'll get some to you when it comes. As for the color, hmm, not sure. I ordered it from Outsidepride. I used to get it from T&M, but they haven't had it the last two years. It's probably the brighter yellow is my guess. I ordered it even though, it may not be quite what I used to have. I still like the ferny leaves, ever blooming, and stems that don't flop---even in my south shade. The only way I'll know the color for sure is to grow some. You still want some?

pmmGarak, Willkommen
If you would like for me to elaborate on Winter Sowing, just D Mail me.
BTW, WS works really well on plants that need stratification. Some plants (like Penstemon) takes 8 weeks of stratification before the seed will germinate. This means they have to have fluctuating temperatures in moist medium for 8 weeks.

My Ajuga has been lovely this late fall: a beautiful red-violet.

Diane's Seeds has several Digitalis that are Perennails.

@mlmlakestevens: I found the forum about Winter Sowing and read a little bit - I might give it a try for irises or something I was never too lucky with. Heleborus Orientalis already does it on its own, while the self sowing Digitalis always seem to germinate ages before frost.

@Blomma: I think it's a 7a, but Germany isn't as well mapped for USDA-Zones as the US - actually, the concept isn't too present among older gardeners here. Then again, it's a fuzzy concept: I think a lot of plants can deal with slowly building cold, but this winter, we had two to three mild frost events (-2°C) until 27th of December, with even few nights below +4°C, so all the roses kept their leaves, and my tree peony was already showing (very) first signs of starting growth. And then there was this one night: -12°C in 2 meters height, probably a lot less on the ground. Merry Christmas. If we hadn't had 10 cm of snow the day before, it would have been devastating. Well, no way to judge the real effect before spring...

Oh my! I had told myself that seed-starting for this coming year would be out of the question. So, I guess that I will lurk here, and know that I will want to do a lot after I move.

Oh, I am getting ahead of myself. I am still planting bulbs, in between storms and other inconveniences. We are hoping to sell the house in spring. I have one closet yet to be cleaned out, then do the walls again. Probably not a good idea to paint in winter, so it will have to be early spring, for the inside anyway.

Nothing like a freshly painted room. I will put annuals in the colorbowls and around the house, with lots of deer spray. Maybe I should sow some hardy annuals now, huh? In the ground, I mean. No "seed-starting", WS or otherwise. It was too hot before we left for the trip. So now will be the only time to do it. I hope that the ground is not too cold. Has anyone else sowed seeds outside this late before?

@Birder17: Thanks for the warm welcome and the offer to share your knowledge - I think I've read what I need right now over at the WS-Forum after the acronym was explained, but I'll come back to you in case I want to dive into the subject.

Several new strains of digitalis have been advertised as perennial. I tried a white one from Parks in 2013, Camelot, which bloomed the first year, then vanished. At the time it was promoted as being perennial. Now I see they've changed it to biennial, but blooming both the first and second years. Then farther down, they say 'several seasons.' I guess they're confused- they certainly confused me!

I noticed this fall there are a few digitalis growing where Camelot had been. I'm curious to see if it came back, or if the generic bicolors have migrated into that spot.

Only Digitalis I have gotten to grow is Strawberry ,,Of course I am not as good with Flowers ,as most here ..


pmmGarak ) moment of thread stray below ,,, 1963 ,, Goppingen Germany ,,, Hello ...

My favorite digitalis has always been mertonensis. I was trying to grow them in Lake County but was only marginally successful. The were quite short. I needed better soil. But I did go back and find seedlings, two years later, where small ones had grown.

So, in my new yard, with better soil, I took the bull by the horns. Happy Macomb kindly sent me seed from JL Hudson. I started them indoors this month last year, and by April had seedlings big enough to put outside to harden off. In early June I put them in the ground - five fat plants. Notice the soaker hose - didn't want to lose these babies!

At the end of October they looked fine (second picture) they looked great. I can't wait to see them next year. I have never had so many in such a perfect location. They are next to one of my favorite roses, Enfant de France, which performed so beautifully in my garden that I just ordered a second one from Antique Rose Emporium. I got one last year from Pickering, and other than David Austin there was no provider of this very beautiful rose. And DA's prices are very high. So...

The great thing about having more experience with roses, as well as doing endless, compulsive research on them, is that I know which was will be easy peasy. I can't really believe it, but I am going to have 35 roses. I grow a three big ones as specimen plants, and two up trellises, but for the most part they are worked into beds with perennials and grasses and bulbs. I love growing roses that way. I know most people grow them isolated in beds, but they seem so happy with their nepetas and geraniums and salvias and bulbs. And I think the beneficials really enjoy wandering around them.

I have been getting the BEST seeds from my fellow gardeners! (Hey Pam!)

This message was edited Jan 6, 2015 8:19 AM

birder17, That is exactly what it says in my plant encyclopedia regarding dwarf marigold and online.

http://www.bhg.com/gardening/plant-dictionary/annual/french-marigold/

That is why I prefer the Latin names, instead common ones.

pmmGarak Below is a map for you to find your zone. It is either 6 or 7. You can pick out where you live to be more accurate.

http://www.gardenweb.com/zones/europe/

Thanks, Blomma, but that Map is very coarse - I can see it doesn't really take geographic details like the Swabian Alp into account. I live 40 kilometers east of Stuttgart, which the Gardenweb-map would put into Zone 6. I know another source, http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-germany-plant-hardiness... which attributes zone 8 (!). From my experience in the last 20 years, I'd give us a 7a, as stated above. some sources name indicator plants for each zone. Zone 7 indicators contain Taxus Baccata and Ilex Aquifolium, and I've never seen any of those die from cold around here - but occasionally, a Prunus laurocerasus, Zone 8 indicator, dies in a cold winter.

@juhur: I'm not sure where in Göppingen this could be, though'd guess somewhere around Cooke Barracks? I may ask my "would be father-in-law if I ever make my 15 year+ relationship lawful", though I think he was never based at Göppingen directly

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/editpost.php?pid=9999623#ixzz3O58ci9ca


This message was edited Jan 6, 2015 11:10 PM

Blomma, that Miracle-Gro stuff is everywhere. I had been buying Schultz for years and found it very satisfactory. Then a couple of years ago it disappeared from all the stores. I don't know why. I always felt negatively about Miracle-Gro because I hate those bright green crystals, full of salts, that pump up plants with excessive nitrogen. Amazing - their seed starting soil has FERTILIZER in it! Maybe for potting up seedlings - but for starting seed?

I compensated by using a lot more compost relative to pottting soil to plant. Platt Hill Nursery, where I buy my stuff, has a lovely blended compost along with standard compost. They also sell Espoma potting soil. It actually has mycorrhizae in it. I had been adding that to my plantings so I was very happy about that.