2015 Seed Starting, Part 5

One comment for the gardener that is starting seeds to put the plants in hanging baskets. If some of them are perennials, the perennials may not bloom until the following season. I don't remember which or if there were perennials involved in the hanging baskets. I was thinking there were.

I used to germinate Tidal Wave Silver (a classic hanging basket plant, and a perennial), and put the seedlings in four hanging baskets on my patio. I would overdo the seeding, of course, and put the balance in pots. Here they are in June a few years back, the extras in pots.

And I found a shot of them being overwintered in December that I am having trouble printing. I used to dig them out of their hanging pots, put them in small plastic pots, and put them in a sunny window. They would bloom all winter. So cheerful! The following spring I would cut them back, fertilize them, and back the went into their into hanging pots!

So if they are using tender perennials, and a lot of people do, it should be fine. You DO need to start early in the year. I used to start my petunias in February. Think I'll do some now. Thank you for the inspiration!

DonnaMack - thank you, but looks like I have more learning to do on this stuff tho, and those Tidal Wave Silver are beauties!

birder17 - thank you, that is good to know, i will have to go back and check my flower list for perennials as I did not know that.

Checking on my geraniums this is what I bought -

Ivy geranium tornado mix - Pelargonium peltatum - what I have found says it is normally used as an annual, only a perennial in zones with little or no frost.

Ringo Deep Scarlet - Pelargonium hortorum - what i have found says it is normally used as annual, but can be brought inside during winter in zones as low as 7

I hope they bloom this summer. Anyone know more info about these ?

I thought that because of the confusion over perennial and annual geramiums, a new classification was being used: annuals (and tender annuals) were now in the genus pelargonium and perennials (hardy) had been split off with their own genus: geranium (common name cranesbill).

Bet, that sounds right to me.

Lilmiss, you can bring in absolutely anything you want if you can put it in the right conditions. For many years (and I am doing it again) I would take my pelargoniums, pick a few stems. tear off the leaves, cut them in sections, put the sections in seed starting mix on a tray, put them in a fairly sunny place, and water them from the bottom. I also keep the parents in their pots (I'm a belt and suspender kind of gal) and water them too. I now have both parent plants and babies from the cuttings. I tend to put several cuttings in a single pot in spring.

I got an abelia grandiflora as a gift last year. It's zone 6, and I knew it would not survive. So I dug it up and it's on a table in my south facing living room.

this is all great info, love it!

I checked all my flower seeds I bought and they are all annuals. I did find my verbena is a tender perennial in my zone, but I did start it early, hope that is enough to get it to flower. There is also a type of baby's breath that is a perennial, but those are not the kind I have. So, I think I should be ok. Whew.

thanks everyone, think i got it straight now.

BetNC...so how does it feel to be a new proud mama? LOL... Thrilling huh?! I imagine lilmiss went thru the same too a few weeks back when her's started germinating... FUN, FUN, FUN.

Donna...no micro climates in the yard to take advantage of? If nothing else could try to root a cutting and see if one might make it thru the winter with a bit of extra protection......(1 baby inside and 1 mama outside) Cuz after a while you're house would be over run when it begins to mature in a few years......lol. Haven't you tried pushing zones before? I thought we all did that....lol.
That's how many of the growers do it with pelergoniums is to take cuttings from Mother plants for rooting on thru the winter for spring sales. I've seen some of those plants and they are massive! The zonal types are usually started from seed each winter for spring sales. I toured a few growers in this area and it's fascinating the the setups they have available. Auto misters and table rotation on timers. Some have cement floors where they have channels and all their trays/pots on the floor and they flood the channel for a few minutes and then recollect all the water to use it again, over and over and over, (the water is also fertilized with growth stimulators and some use chems to prohibit growth and stunt their plants. All depends on what they are growing). Some of the commercial operations are truely amazing! If anyone ever gets the chance for a tour take it just for the leaning experience.... (I digress...lol, slap my hand.)

I thought I had a microclimate on the south side of my house under a shrub. I over wintered two Abelia 'Pinky Bells'. Dead as doormats in spring. They were gifts from Raulston Arboretum, and they cost $26 each to replace. So I haven't done it.

The only zone pushing I have done is with climbing rose Zephirine Drouhin, and now her sport Kathleen Harrop. A rosarian in St. Louis (warmer than we are) insisted that it was zone 5 hardy, not 6 as always advertised. So I took a chance. It survived winters of 30 below on the north side of my former property, year after year. So now I have both!

You had a Zephirine.....that's one of those I've been eying for years. Was it as good as advertised? How 'bout the fragrance too?

If I had it to do all over again, I would choose to be THIS type of mother!! MUCH less painful, didn't distort my figure and I wound up with almost 200 "babies" that let me sleep & eat on MY schedule. as opposed to one colicky unhappy ex-parasite . . . I could go on, but I think y'all get my drift!!

Since wanting tomatoes started all this, I focused on tomatoes. . and just realized I hadn't researched ANYTHING about fertilizing FLOWER seedlings!!

HELP!!

Oh Kathy, it's better! Thornless, scented, and it blooms all the way to frost. First abundance, then perhaps 10-12 flowers at a time. I grew it as a shrub, not a climber. It does tend to get blackspot if you don't water it evenly, a problem I solved by putting a soaker hose at the base and watering for 15 minutes once a week if it didn't rain. But the amazing thing about it is that blackspot does NOTHING to slow down the blooming, and it doesn't defoliate. And unlike MANY roses, it blooms to the ground.

These pics were taken over a 4 year period. It's not a one hit wonder.

Donna, when you started your geranium leaves, did you wet the soil quite a bit before putting them in the soil?

Glad the hanging basket plants are all annuals: good job!

Edited to add:

I'm always afraid of doing much with annuals in my house. I worry about getting bugs: white flies etc.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 6:06 PM

BetNC said:
>> those chains to raise/lower the shoplight are a REAL pain (there's GOT to be something better than chains!!),

Back when I had a shop light setup, I let the chain dangle down from above, and attached two hooks to each light fixture. Then I would hook the hook into the chain at whatever height I wanted.

I could support one end of a light fixture with one hand, raise it enough to take its weight off the chain, unhook the hook with my other hand, and then re-hook it higher or lower.

The unused length of chain can just dangle - the reflector sometimes kept it away from the plants. Or, I left one hook on the end of the chain, and used that to hook the dangling end up, out of the way, after the lights were positioned.

I forget the name of the kind of chain I used, but it was made from small links that could be unbent with needle-nose pliers, so that they became a little hook just the right size to hook into the chain.

Rick ol buddy, ol pal Sounds like you used. . . . . . CHAINS!!! LOL

I live in an apartment, thus no dangling chains to use!! My shoplight is suspended by chains, from a PVC pipe frame. The chains that came with the light were. . adequate, so I went to the hardware store and bought some more substantial chain and some strong S-hooks: yes, I used a needle-nosed plier to open one end of the chain lengths' link on each end: one for that strong S-hook (attaching the shoplight) and the other to use as a hook in the chain, to raise and lower it as you described. (Each link is a figure 8 and two whole links make an inch)

To help, I'm using an up-ended flat to raise my seedlings ...when they get taller, I have a stack of magazines (Texas Monthly LOL) to slide them onto, gradually lowering them without having to mess with that dang chain!!

I repeat: the chain is a pain!!!! (Mental, not physical! LOL)

Hi Birder. I probably wasn't clear. I strip off all the leaves and discard them. I then take the stems and cut them into approximately 4 inch lengths. Then I put them the stems in seed starting mix in the plastic pots I get when I buy the few plants I buy. Several to a pot. Then I put them on a tray and water them from the bottom of the tray.

Bet, what you are describing is exactly what I did in the basement of my former home. There were wood beams in the ceiling, and I screwed the s hooks into it and used needle nosed pliers to open and adjust the links.

Germinated as of today: Penstemon (unk) pink lrg flower; Ammi visagna; Salvia sclaria var. Turkestanica Alba; Delphinium Galahad; Petunia Sparklers; Virginia Bunch Flower; Talinum paniculatum 'Jewels of Opal'; Mararite Daisy 'Susane Mitchelle'; Anthemis tinctoria Golden Margarite; Achillea ptarmica 'The Pearl Superior' (thanks Evelyn); Knauta macedonica.

Ordered some seeds from Select Seed and waiting for those to arrive, the plants won't be here til May. Seed:Heliotrope Old Fashined, Agrostema 'Ocean Pearls'; Anodis 'Snow Cups'; Reseda oderata 'Mignonettr Machet' (yummy fragrance); PAM PLEASE NOTE: Ceratotheca triloba lavender (lol); Zaluzianskya capensis (yummy fragrance); Rehmania angulata Chinese Foxglove; Centaurea Perennial Butterfly; Daucus Dara. Plants: Celosia Kelos Purple; Heliotrope Sweet Heaven and H. a. white. (Sure hope I can collect seed from the Heliotropes!!!!)

Thanks Donna. So, the seed starting mix is dry when you put the stems "on top?" of the soil with a bit of the stem sticking in the ground: !/4 inch? And then you put water from the bottom until the soil at the top is wet? I'm just surprised you start with dry soil. My soil is dry as flour--maybe the soil you use is "damp"? Not questioning your technique--just want to understand your "method of madness"! :)

I like Select Seeds, but I am careful what I order from them--MANY of her seeds re-seed prolifically--too much for my smallish gardens. Those would be great for gardeners that have acres to fill. I bought Ageratum from her 7 years ago--I'm stilll pulling the plants up, and they jumped to another garden as well. I noticed the plants were too aggressive seed wise. It was taking over the entire garden area. The blue was outstanding, but I did want other plants in that area. I have also ordered fuschias from her-they were very nice and have survived several years when brought in over the winter.

Kathy, please let us know what you learn from gathering seeds from Heliotrope. I have tried to "find" the seeds and haven't been able to. I finally just took the whole Heliotrope head and stuck in a sack hoping the seed would fall out. Nope-just a bunch of dry stuff. I don't "see" seeds. If I remember right, the seed is very, very small.

birder17 - yes, keeping an out for those whiteflys, and i guess spider mites too. No problems yet.

Some of the nasturtiums I transplanted on the 1st of March are looking a little sickly now, maybe transplant shock?. Do yall think they will bounce back? I know they dont like to be transplanted. Others are looking pretty good.

Birder. Hi. I actually wet the seed starting mix. So it is wet when I put the stems in. Then I water from the bottom. But dry seed mix - no!

Lilimiss, don't worry. Nasturtiums develop so quickly that it is OK to wait till the soil warms and direct seed them. Honestly, I have never heard of anyone transplanting them. And it is much to cold to put them outside. What I did do, however, was put the climbing ones in a pot for a friend to put in his office window.

It is true that some Select Seed Seeds are very happy to reproduce! I ended up with a garden loaded nicotiana and verbena bonariensis. Which I just loved. Verbena plants have a small presence and will not disturb other plants. I used them as an impromptu fence (neighbors cutting through the yard). And they had fans!

This morning, my first tomato sprout!! When I checked them again a few hours later, there were 2 more!! So I removed the "domes" and put both six-packs under the lights; at supper time, there were 7 more!! It's like being at the finish line of a race: everybody's trying to win! That's 10 out of 36 seeds so far. I'm wondering how many more I will find in the morning!

Still nothing from the asters. Where I bought the seed also gave directions on germinating them indoors: light required. But the University of Massachusetts Extension says light is NOT required!
Whatever. They're still not doing anything.

Question:should I (and HOW should I) regulate the temperature for those seedlings under lighjts? Should I try to keep it within (whatever is under light but all haven't germinated yet) reccomended germination range?? for example: almost all of my marigolds have germinated & are flying their teensy pr of cotyledon leaves yet over half my 'maters haven't germinated yet (marigold germination 65-75 and 'mater 70-75).

Is the growing temperature not as important as germinating temperature??

DonnaMack they are not outside they are under lights in my garage in hanging baskets. Unfortunately, I am not trying to put these in a garden. I know this is a gardening forum and most people direct sow these, so I guess maybe there is no info about it. I understand I am trying to do something different. Ill keep checking elsewhere to see if I can find any info.

BetNc - yay! glad to hear you've got sprouts!


This message was edited Mar 5, 2015 6:02 PM

Lilmiss do you must have the climbers? I had always done the clumpers, but I pulled out some seed I saved ten years ago and got the climbers. They are sensational! You will love them. They should work beautifully in hanging baskets! Great idea. I have never done that.

I have grown Nasturtiums from seed in pots that you can just plant with the seedling. It worked fine.

>> yes, I used a needle-nosed plier to open one end of the chain lengths' link on each end: one for that strong S-hook (attaching the shoplight) and the other to use as a hook in the chain, to raise and lower it as you described. (Each link is a figure 8 and two whole links make an inch)

Yup, that's just what I did.

Congratulations on your Racing Tomato seedlings!

I think that most seedlings like cooler air and soil than most germinating seeds like. They grow stockier if they have some cool, especially at night.

My experience is like Rick's - both of them, actually. The method of using the chains and the fact that seedlings grow stockier in somewhat cooler temos.

What with the intervals of snow, sleet, rain and just plain yucky days. . . I got PLENTY of cold!! hehehe

I got my first chive sprouts yesterday...Can you see them!? :)
and today moved my ice plants to 2x2 peat strips. Hope they transfer OK.
Also planted a few seeds of a few varieties of tomatoes to back up my WS'd ones.

Today was balmy (sunny/blue skies and 40 degrees) and given all the snow and COLD temps felt almost like SPRING! LOVE it!

1 chives starting to sprout
2 my biggest ice plant seedling
3 ice plants just transferred to 2x2 peat strips

Sorry I dont have more exciting germinations to share! I enjoy reading about yours, tho!

Has anyone ever tried to get Nigella Arvensis to germinate? It's the only Nigella that just won't move - it's more than three weeks now, and none of the others (N.Damascena, N.Sativa, N. Bucharica, N. Hispanica/Papillio and N.Orientalis) ever took longer than 11 days. Of course N. Arvensis is the only wild form I tried, all the others are cultivars (or field crops in case of N. sativa), but still I'm wondering.

btw: why is this tread growing that big? aren't they supposed to get split up after 100 posts?

Garak: What do you do with all the Nigella? I have to really watch mine 'cause it has taking ways.

GREAT JOB VAL!!!!!! See what you can do when you set your mind to it! So proud of you!
And what's up with BetNC, any more sprouting? I'm sooooo happy that our newbies are doing great. And lilmiss, keep posting, love the info on what others are doing.

pmm...only found info on N.damascena, hispanica, and orientalis in the Deno Method booklet. Have you tried google. Sometimes there are scientific entries.

Hey Rick, how are things germinating this year?

Germination since 3/5/15:Daucus carota Rubra, Helenium Autumn Lollipop; and Jasione laevis.

I'm thinking spring is here...suppose to be in the 50s and 60s all week. And now the snow is melting....but then again this is our snowiest month and April is second for snow, so I know it's not done, just a nice reprieve. Sure would like to get some things done outside......sunshine will be nice!

Just planted more tomatoes using kathy's method (kinda): in the lid of a foam egg carton, I used a pencil to make lines of furrows and planted in TTHOSE!! Once germinatedf, I'll use toothpicks to pick them out and put them in the celled inserts. Why?? I got 83% germination rate from those I bought and 16% from those given to me; plus this way is SO much faster and more efficient.

My marigolds are too numerous to count, to figure germination rate. Good thing I have severAl neighbors that LOVE marigolds, 'cause I have MANY more than I need!!

my flat (minus 2 six-packs for my 'maters) had 4 sprouts come up yesterday. Today is their last official day of their germination range. I'll give them another week, just in case they're my "slow" chillien! LOL

QQuestion: can I. . . SSHOULD I re-use the starting mix???

Pic #1 is my original 2 lonely six-packs of my famous Racing Tomatoes!
pic #2 is my FLAT of marigolds

grrrrrr....................missed that, 'cause I was looking for/correcting typos and it was an omission!

my OTHER flat (minus 2 six-packs) are china asters.

Wow!!! Look at all those babies!!!! See, I told you it's easy!!!! LOL! Proud new mama!! LOL!

ROFL and I didn't feel a thing!!!

Hi Bet- It is not recommended to reuse the starting mix, as now it may have pathogens lurking in it. I chuck mine out into the garden as mulch. However, to start something very vigorous it may not matter.

@Birder: I want to try to hybridize Nigella, though I've read they're not to fond of that. I chose nigella for easily getting two generations per year, because they already do that on their own. Up to now, I only had N. Damascena. I know it likes to seed itself, but I actually like that, since it will auto-close a gap if a perennial happens to get killed in Winter.

I, too, have had no luck staring china asters indoors. Of 180 seeds sown, I had 4 (count 'em: FOUR!!!) that sprouted, leaving me with a 2% germination rate on freshly ordered seed!

When I transplanted the one lonely sprout into the six-pack insert that held the other 3 (each being the sole survivor in a cell), I discovered why: they have absolutely NO roots. Nada. Not even tiny, rudimentary hairs!! I've had to use toothpicks to gently nudge small bits of medium around the stems, to keep them from toppling over and laying down!

If I hadn't've already had such a marvelous germination rate with my store-bought tomato and marigold seed I'd think maybe I was doing something wrong!

As for my marigolds, most already have their first set of true leaves and are starting on their SECOND set, while a few haven't even got their FIRST set yet!! Is this normal??

I had a similar experience trans planting my ice plant seedlings from a produce container to 2x2 peat cells. The roots are so small, and the seedlings just sort of fell over and look like they are lying down. Some, however, have apparent new growth. I'm hoping I'm not going to lose many of them.

Every year I try starting Marigolds indoors , but I never have good results.Last year just by chance I saw some dried plants in the garden from last season and I decided to sow them in a large pot that I had a miniature rose in and the seeds sprouted like crazy and I had a lot of plants.So this year I will sow them outdoors,because lots of articles state they do better being sown outdoors.

Got my first 2 tomato seedlings germinated as of today. I sowed them last weekend, so less than a week germination :) Waiting for more...

Bet, did your tomatoes sprout yet?