2015 Seed Starting, Part 5

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:48 AM

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:50 AM

Hi BetNC

The average last frost date in Hendersonville, North Carolina is April 26.

http://library.hendersoncountync.org/countyfacts_weather.html

But remember - that's an average. You should probably give yourself a few extra days, since that date can be off by 6 to 7 days. So your last frost date might be as early as a week before or a week after.

To be absolutely sure, I would use May 1, so if you need to start them 8 weeks before May 1 you would, you see, start them on March 1. That way you would be cautious, and sure.

Donna



This message was edited Jan 1, 2015 5:43 AM

BetNC- I saw that you asked what Spider Mtes look like. Just wanted to say that there are different types of mites but SMs are the most common here. They are almost microscopic...but they can be IDed by the webbing that they leave behind OR by a plant just "drying up" even tho it is getting plenty of water. The plant's leaves will look "dusty". To my knowledge they don't like humid conditions but you can check with your local extension agency.

I think Zinnias are a fantastic choice and you might want to add Cosmos, they too, are super easy and can take the heat.

Just a few comments regarding companion planting.
Years ago, when I first started growing tomatoes, I would get bumper crops. I grew Heirlooms, and they were prolific. I had no companion plants with them.
Then, I started planting marigolds, basil and nasturtiums with the tomatoes. I have lots of spider mites but did not see Any on my tomato plants. I also don't have nary an aphid on my tomatoes. Nasturtiums work as a trap crop for aphids. Basil is suppose to give the tomatoes better flavor.
I haven't had as prolific a crop of tomatoes since I have been doing companion plantings.
BUT is it because:
1. The companion plants or
2. The soil is getting deficient from planting tomatoes in the same place although we do put fertilizer in the soil each year.
4. Or too much fertilizer and have prolific vines with fewer fruits.
3. OR other uncontrolled environmental variable: Hummingbirds love aphids.
Even though, I did Move My Tomato plants last year where I usually put the okra and vice versa, the tomatoes did not do as well as the original location.
I did a soil test and the results showed nothing to change.
So, who knows? It's a crap shoot!
I know this should go on the tomato forum and will do so sometime, but there was a discussion here on companion plants and tomatoes.

Also, :)
Donna thanks for posting about the Heuchera--I was going to grow some, but couldn't remember for sure if it was Firefly or not. Any pointers?
Another good site for seed starting is Backyard Gardener. I believe it originally comes from T&M Seeds:

http://www.backyardgardener.com/tm.html

Donna, I used to grow A LOT of plants from seed and couldn't "give" the plants away. Growing from seed is expecially thrifty when growing perennials. They get pricey to buy at a garden center.
I have great success with Winter Sowing and using Fertilome Soiless Seed Starting Mix. I intend to start winter sowing very soon-maybe before Christmas. I already have started Aquilegia caerulea.

You are talking to the anal one. I took notes!

I started by putting four seeds on each of four APS cells, so 16. My final yield, into the ground, was seven plants. This was in 2009, and all the plants are still with me. They were from seed purchased in 2008. Some have been divided.

I hope you don't mind my cutting and pasting from my log:

January 19, 2009
16 Heuchera Sanguinea Firefly (J.L. Hudson) 4 to 4 cells, surface

January 30, 2009

2 of 16 Heuchera Sanguinea Firefly (J.L. Hudson) germinated (11 days)

January 31, 2009
5 of 16 Heuchera Sanguinea Firefly (J.L. Hudson) germinated (12 days)

February 1, 2009
6 of 16 Heuchera Sanguinea Firefly (J.L. Hudson) germinated (13 days)

March 14, 2009
Potted up four Heuchera Firefly into four of a six cell seedling pack

I judged them fit to go into the ground on April 19. The last one was installed on May 19.

They worked out so well I did it again the next year, and ended up with nine plants total. I was more careful about watering the second year so yields were better - with older seed! They were large enough that last year I divided one of the ones I brought with me into three plants.

The nice thing about Firefly is that even if it heaves, it doesn't die. If it heaved the first few years I simply packed the area that was heaved with compost to raise the plant without digging it up. It worked. Last year I actually dug most of them up and planted them deeper (which gives you a nice opportunity to divide them.

Every other heuchera I purchased heaved and died. I paid as much as $13.99 for some of them.

They are so tough that I threw one into a pot and left it in the garage all winter, and when I hauled it out it looked like the first picture. I started to toss it.

A year later, it looked like the second picture - yes, the same plant!

The third pic is from 2012. I had been here less than six months and was starting over. Look how it lights up the shade! (And that's my Ursula's Red, by the way).

I am starting them for my client and, well, I want even more. I am trying to get about 20 and throw them everywhere, since they rebloom and can take anything from a good deal of sun (I had them on the west and north in Lake county, and mostly north and east here).

They really are easy. Let me know if you need to know more.

I love them!

Donna, thanks for the thorough information. I, like you, have lost high dollar Heucheras in the winter from heaving even though I push them back in the ground when the ground is not frozen and mulch them. So, I want a H. that is tough. Even though the H. descriptions say they are "tough", I loose them. I too want several so I am going to try to grow these from seed.

I think I will print your information.

Your little H. 'Firefly' is really beautiful. What is the plant that looks like it's just starting to put out a red bud that is above and to the left of your H. 'Firefly'?
And, you mentioned two different Firefly Heucheras in an above post. Do you know if one is easier to grow than the other? I'm just wondering why you're growing a different H. Firefly or maybe I didn't read the post correctly.

I am assuming the Heuchera F. seed doesn't need stratifying or any special application?

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:08 AM

I got the seeds from JL Hudson, and also got a couple of others. I find that the close to native ones like Dale's Strain just sit in my yard year after year, just surviving. I tried 'Monet', 'June Bride', 'Cherries Jubilee'. I loved 'Cherries Jubilee', and kept buying them as losing them as the price went from $7.99 to $9.99 to $11.99 (at $13.99 I pulled the plug). 'Firefly' has a similar color flower on a greener plant. I LOVE the red!

You are quite right that I posted two different seeds. My original ones are from 2008, and sometimes when I really want a plant from "old" seed I will buy a new version (which I think the Swallowtail seed is although the name is different) and grow them both.

I have clients who absolutely abuse more neutral colored heuchera and they thrive. I also could not grow heucherella, as my dead 'Brigette Bloom' and 'Lacquer Leaf' plants will attest. So I think that my soil was particularly bad (lots of clay) so I was impressed by the performance of these little guys.

I do keep my seed in the refrigerator. As a matter of fact, I was given the gift of one of those min-fridges because my seeds were taking up so much room in the main fridge. So all of my seeds are held at 40 degrees. Which, I think is the reason I get germination from seeds I saved from 1998 (particularly mirabilis, impatiens balsamina, ipomoea, nasturtium) so by the time I sow them they are coming in from the cold. Thank you, Blomma - you made me think. I had not really considered that ALL of my seeds are stratified, and that when I sow them they have been cold for YEARS!

The red plant in bud is, believe it or not a peony - Burma Ruby. It was a gift from Steve who at the time was SteveFort Worth. The first picture and second pictures show it planted in semi sun in Lake County. I planted it under a crabapple on the north side of my house with white polemonium and Athryrium Felix Femina (the latter was never very happy). This was in 2009.

In 2011 I was moving so I put it in a pot and kept it on the balcony of a place I rented for a year while in transition. I actually potted up tons of my stuff for a year while I changed houses, and picked a two bedroom apartment based on size of balcony and light (had to be BIG and facing south or east). Burma was very happy in its little pot. The third picture is from 2011.

So I moved it to my new yard. Here is a closeup (picture 4) of the plant taken on the same day as the picture from my previous posting. This is in 2012.

And it did bloom (picture 5), but it has fewer buds, as you can see. It had taken a step back. It only bloomed because it had some stored up energy. And the next year - 2013 - it didn't bloom at all - just formed foliage. So I moved it again to another location without a enough light. It formed a lovely green plant, but didn't bloom. (2014). So last fall I moved it to a new sun location. (Come on, 2015!)

So I learned something else about the light requirements of even single peonies. I don't mind making these dumb mistakes because I learn so much and can pass it on. I loved the red effect I got from it but I have to make it happy.

Blomma, your Heucheras are beautiful. I've bought several and loose them. I think part of it is my soil.
My backyard is mostly subsoil. I can grow a few things in it, but have found lots of stuff turns up their toes, and frankly, I can't really blame them! There's very little drainage even though, it does eventually slope severely into the forest.

I hope I can get some Heucheras growing from seed.

Donna, the Peony is beautiful. It looks quite healthy and the red color is striking against the emerald green backdrop of leaves. I wondered what the plant was because you don't see many red blooming plants that grow in the shade. At least, I'm not thinking of any right now.

Thanks to both for sharing your experiences. It always helps.

Have you gals tried adding peat moss to lighten heavy soils? Just a thought.....

Thanks birder for the link to the T&M master list, just put it in my notebook for starting seeds!!!!!!!

Hi Kathy,
Yes, we've put lots of peat moss in the soil. We need to put more. I believe the peat moss completely disappears after a few years??

I really like the information the above seed list gives you. You're welcome. ;)

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:50 AM

One year I was able to get shredded paper (a hole bale which was 4'x5') from the local newspaper, which is now defunked (Rocky Mountain News). And put that out on open ground, the following year I rototilled it in and then began planting. Wow...that stuff was great for loosening the soil.... So if you have a local newpaper that has a bale to spare...... Make sure they only use soluble ink (the slick ads aren't) in their printing process. I also use to place it as a thick mulch around plants and they grew like crazy....... Would love another bale or two but have no way to transport it now....Darn I've been debating as to whether I want to save my daily for the compost pile and usually give up and toss them, maybe I should change my habit!!! LOL. I know recycle!!! After all it's nothing more than wood...

I still use peat....probably will until I'm done and they turn me into the compost pile...lol. yes it does break down and turns back into the earth but I believe in the long run it does help the tilth factor... In another garden I used bales of peat and would till them in before planting, but it was a smaller garden than what I'm doing now so only do each planting hole now. I do notice I get more worms when I work things into the soil..

I have a neighbor that has been bringing me his grass clippings from his mowing business, which I'll be placing in the garden (ran out of time this season). Another great one that adds tilth to the soil as it breaks down. I'll have to get it down early so it doesn't wash down the hill in the summer rains if they get heavy. I don't need to fill the ditch with it...lol.

Blomma, I love your heuchera from seed. Do you know the name? Don't you love growing these very expensive plants from seed?!

I am starting to get germination on my seeds. I got 100% germination on my salvia verticillata 'White Rain' from Hazzard's Seeds. I put seed to soil on the 14th. And I notice that it actually germinated a couple of days ago.Thrilling because it's out of commerce. It will fill in any area. I want to put it on my parkway. And I have about 90% germination on my heucheras from Swallowtail.

Nothing like fresh seed!

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:51 AM

I need to dig up the plants that are growing in the area and amend the soil. Our little tiller bit the dust, and we need to buy a new one. We didn't get it before fall set in and all little garden tillers were sold out. Wish I could buy some energy! :)

BetNC...Happy Birthday!!!!!!! Hope it's a wonderful and special Day!!!

Best wishes, BetNC!

tHANK YOU BOTH FOR THWE BIRTHSday (burp...'scuse me: I'm making eggnog and taste-tewsting to get it just right: I think I've used too much Nog!!)

Happy BD Bet!
Glad to see you're enjoying your birthday with some "nog" :)

BetNC,
Happy Birthday.

Happy Birthday Bet, I think you need another one! :)

What do you all find hard to grow from seed, in particular winter sowing experiences?
I bought lavender and rosemary, to name a couple, and have since read they can be hard to grow from seeds......true?

My Lady Lavender germinated easily a couple of years ago. Other types may need stratifying.

Blomma has a good method for doing this, but I used a shortcut last year that worked very well on many perennial seeds. I soaked the seeds for 24-48 hours starting with hand hot water, occasionally (maybe once or twice) changing the cooled water with hot. Then I put the seeds in the paper towel and baggy as she described, put the package in the freezer for 24 hours, then took it out and left it at room temp or slightly warmer (on top of my plant lights). I checked for sprouts every morning, and planted the seeds in seed-starting mix as they germinated.

I also used Maxicrop, a rooting stimulator, and peroxide (5% - 10%) in the water once seeds are planted. I have automatic watering systems, similar to what Donna uses, and I find that the extra oxygen molecule helps keep my seedlings healthy. I have had no damping off issues since I started using it. There may be other reasons why that is so- better light, for instance- but between the constant dampness and the crowding (my space for seed starting is very tight), I feel safer taking extra precautions.

Happy, healthy and safe holidays, everyone!

I must ask for more advice, folks.

I'm gathering stuff to set up my gro system and when I got to the time to get the trays etc to use: I realized I still didn't know how WIDE these flourescent bulbs would be good for.

I have one shop light, holding two 48" bulbs; the shop light is suspended from a frame 58" wide. Plus I have 2 mylar survival blankets to reflect the light back inward. How many inches WIDE will these bulbs provide the light seedlings will. need? (Anybody else reminded of those nightmare-producing math word problems?? "Train A leaves station C at 1:45 am traveling East toward Station D, going 45 mph. At the same time, Train B leaves station D traveling West toward Station E, going 65 mph. The two stations are 108 miles apart. What time will it be when the two trains pass each other?" LOL I HATE math!!!!!)

And a related question: can y'all reccomend a source for the seed flats, with the trays?
So far, the ones I've found include the starting medium, and sometimes also a fertilizer I don't want. Since I have to make the "soil" for my 6-8 tomatoe containers, I might as well use a bit for the seed project (different formulas but same ingredients, more or less).

Pam, that's great to know about Lady Lavender. I want to grow that and I like to have seeds that are relatively easy to germinate.

Bet, I think that the seeds, for best germination, need to be right under the lights. Otherwise, in my experience, they tend to stretch and weaken.

Gardeners Supply will sell you PARTS of units. Seed flats, trays, you name it - all the replacement parts. You have to search to find them, since they would much rather sell you wholee kits, but i found them some time ago. I hope that I am understanding what you are seeking. You don't have to buy the soil. Here is the link:

http://www.gardeners.com/buy/fast-start-seedstarter-parts/40-237RS.html

I hope this helps. I was very pleased when I found it.

Donna