old seeds

A friend gave me several packets of seeds dated 2004. I planted each packet in a plastic clamshell box (like strawberries come in) just to see if any would sprout. What is your experience with old seeds? They are: tomato, basil, cauliflower.

I've had mixed results, but it's always fun to try :)

How providential!

I was on the floor for hours last night going through old seeds. I'm gonna sow them ALL to see what germinates and what doesn't, before I break open the good, fresh seeds I bought back in April 2010...

Linda

Here is a chart that says how long Territorial says seeds will last.

I think at least some of the tomatoes will grow.

According to the the chart, none of them will sprout. We'll see... It can't hurt to try.

miles, and others, ya'll need to keep in mind storage conditions of seeds. You listed "tomato, basil, cauliflower" above. Many seeds when stored at room temperature will easily germinate unless they've been exposed to high humidity and/or high heat.

Tomatoes could easily be germinated after five years unless exposed to the above-mentioned conditions. Even then you might see germination but at a much lower rate. Basil holds its viability for quite a number of years also. Cauliflower would be iffy, but I'd easily wager five years on those, too.

The Territorial chart is not very accurate. Thanks for posting it, starwoodfarm, but I hope ya'll don't consider it the only accurate word on the topic. For example, I grew sweet corn this past summer from seed that was stored in my freezer since 1992, far older than the chart dictates seed viability (one year?). I've stored tomato seeds both at room temps and also in the fridge for quite a few years, easily 5 to 10 years, and have had good germination. (Territorial chart shows only 3 years.)

I could give more examples but no need to. I will give Territorial credit though because perhaps their chart is referring to the highest potential germination rate and using those years listed for that. Unfortunately their chart tells very little about seed saving conditions, etc.

Miles, go for it. I bet you'll see germination from your seeds as long as you follow normal seed starting procedures...moisture, heat, darkness. And if you would like to do a germination test you can always put X number of seeds in a damp paper towel, roll it up and stick in a baggy in a warm place, then check it every few days for progress.

Hope this helps!
Shoe
(edited for typos)

This message was edited Jan 6, 2011 10:03 PM

You're right, I think the Territorial information is very conservative.

And just for the record, this table wasn't their's. I compiled their information from their catalogue to put it on my website. I found some other seed life information at a university that I'm going to add to the chart someday when I have time. It shows all the dates as slightly longer (a year or two.)

If I show my website address here will I get in trouble? Oh well, live dangerously, www.growgreatvegetables.com

Love your site, Laura - I have a website, but Time Warner will be closing down all of their free sites at the end of this month.

http://home.rr.com/ncgarden

Honeybee, Your website is very nice. It's too bad that it has to be taken down. I love seeing the sunny photos and reading your stories and advice. And it's given me some more topics for research. Thanks for sharing.
Laura

My experience is that seeds are tougher than the charts indicate. They say Onions are good for a year but I planted 2 year old onion seed and had 85 to 90% germination.

Tomato seeds will last for years and still be able to get good germination. I have used 6-8 year old tomato seeds and still had a pretty high germination rate.

Basil and Cauliflower seeds are going to go down significantly each year in germination rate.

I planted 16 year old tomato seed last week and got nearly 100% germination. I've got a lot of thinning to do since I planted two seeds per pot, not expecting such a high germination rate. The variety is "Yellow Taxi," which I've since read not so great reviews for taste-wise. Oh well, we'll see. The seed were stored in their original envelope inside a locking plastic bin, probably at an average temp around 80 for all those years, and never exposed to humidity.

Those old seeds that I was given, then planted... the basil and tomato (cherry) have germinated. Appears to be a high rate. No sign of cauliflower sprouts yet.

My saved tomato seeds from 2007-2008 started popping today. Black Krims, Cherokee Purples, Pruden's Purples. I started the seeds last Monday, January 10th.

They're coming up fast...

I am so glad to see other gardeners old seeds are doing well. I recently sorted all my seeds, and many of them are from 2008. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will grow for me, too.

I know that old lettuce seeds are always amazing me. I have grown seeds that were 7 yrs. old successfully. Zinnia seeds too last at least 4 yrs.

A friend of mine has grown from seed as old as 14 years. The germination % rate just suffers. Just stored in envelopes at room temp.

Tomato seeds have incredible resilience, especially if they were properly fermented, dried, and stored. Federal standards require 75% germination rate for commercially-produced seeds. Tomato seeds can last up to 10 years with a germination rate of 50%. If used within 4-7 years, the germination rate will be even better. Go for it! This link may help: http://www.tomatodirt.com/saving-tomato-seeds-faqs.html

An update on the seeds dated 2004 -- the chive seeds popped up today. My first time to grow chives.

An update from my last post on old seeds.
My " Seed Lady" who I get most of my seed from, found greenstriped cushaw saved seed from 1996? She told me to try a germination test on them, so I tried 2 of the old seed. Date 1-12 seeds wraped in dampened paper towel with a very small pinch of tea bag tea on it ( her trick she says to shock them ) who knows, certainly not me. So then placed in covered dark container . Heat pad applied an soil temp aproxx. 85 %. 1-23, one of the seeds sprouted so far. So that is an example of a 14 year old seed germinating in 11 days, now planted in one of my grow terrariums.

Archsquash - that's amazing! I've never heard of the tea trick, either. Does it have to be fresh wet tea, or left over from tea-drinking?

Honeybee, tea is believed to work similar to other seed germination enhancements, often compared to using anything from plain water to gibberellic acid to hydrogen peroxide, etc. Apparently with tea it is thought the tannins soften the seed coat allowing the moisture to the inner part of the seed. If you're a tea drinker it wouldn't hurt to share some of your tea with your seeds!

Shoe

Thanks, Horseshoe - Hubby drinks tea, he always puts the used leaves in the compost. I'll have to tell him there is another use for them now.

I was supposed to make weak tea, but something is better than nothing.

If I put some weak tea in my watering can would that work, too? Some of my beets still have not sprouted even though the seeds were soaked overnight.

HoneybeeNC,
I've found that beets take awhile to come up. How long since you sowed them?

I tend to soak my beet seeds in water with a small splash of hydrogen peroxide, that seems to help with quicker germination. I did the same for some artichoke seeds that usually take 3 weeks or so to germ, a good part of them started declaring in only five days or so. It doesn't take much though.

And the weak tea, or used tea leaves in your watering can probably won't hurt. Some folks use chamomile tea on their seed flats to stave off damping off so you may wanna give it a try using, something good may come from it.

Shoe (off to eat some fried grits and watch an old Bat Masterson re-run!)

A young Gene Barry Bat Masterson? I'm only 54, but I grew up on westerns...and I'm a TV/Movie trivia buff of sorts...

I like that terminology: "declaring" Thank you UberShoe!

Gymgirl - beet seeds: First cups sowed Jan 11th. Second cups sowed Jan 18th.Third cups sowed Jan 25th.

Strange thing is: The cups sown Jan 11th has one seedling showing, as does the ones sown on Jan 18th. These are the Moneta F1 beet seeds.

The Merlin F1 seeds are growing well - every cup but one has seedlings, and I suspect that was a cup I missed planting a seed in!

The seed package says they might take up to 30 days to sprout - I'm just impatient!

Yep, "declaring" is a bit more than just "germinating", it's when they are peeking their little selves out of the soil, taking a good look around to determine if it's okay to come on out!

And yes, Gene Barry Bat Masterson. I still watch tv using the "ancient" TV antenna and when they went to digital signals a year or so ago it created more channels, some of them are strictly older movies, tv shows, etc. Nostalgia at its finest! Yay!

Shoe

Sorry, Honeybee, I was typing in reply to Linda while you were posting.

I've had beet seeds in the ground in the past and they took so long to come up I've given up sometimes. Later in the year I finally see them but unfortunately by then I've planted something else there. Maybe I'll have better luck this year in my boxed beds where the soil is not heavy clay, which easily cakes and halts those little babies from coming up.

Shoe

No worries, Horseshoe :)

All my seeds are sown into 3 oz cups. I like your "declaring" terminology, too. I'll give them four weeks to "declare" before giving up on them.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Ding, ding, ding, ding! Score one on the movie trivia!

Shoe,
I've been trying to remember an ancient movie that Gene Barry starred in. Aliens visited the earth and selected 5 people to receive this little device with a cryptic message that each one of them had "the power of life and death". They spent the entire movie trying to figure it out. Once person committed suicide from the pressure.

Any leads would be appreciated...

I FOUND THE MOVIE!!!! I LOVE THE INTERNET!!!
The movie is entitled, "The 27th Day"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050085/

This message was edited Jan 26, 2011 11:47 AM

Gymgirl - I see you are asking and answering your own questions here now. Do you talk to yourself at home, too? :)

Naw. Mostly I LAUGH at myself at home! ^^_^^ (Jumping up and down cause I found a movie that's been on my mind for years...)

There's one other one, but I'm not holding out any hope, 'cause it's older than dirt...

Set in the 1930s-40s? and, from what I can remember, somebody stole some money, and put the moneybags in the attic of this house. There was a grandmother, and a little girl (daughter? granddaughter?) named "Benitha," and an uncle and a man associated with the robbery. I remember the grandmother standing in the room below where the money was hidden, clasping her hands and praying, "Benitha needs new shoes."

Well, the mice in the attic have chewed a hole in the bags, and there's a hole in the ceiling. When the grandmother prayed (several times in the movie), she startled the mice who scurried and sent some bills from the bags floating down into the room below. The grandmother never thought to see where it was coming from -- she just accepted the "miracle."

Any help appreciated.

Last post on this hijack...smile, please...

That Cushaw seed declared in 2 days. Also have 2 Yellow crookedneck seeds germinated on 3rd day from 8 year old seed.

I sure like that word -- "declared". It makes such a statement!

Heheheh, Linda/GG, I'm so happy I contributed to a good day for you! Unfortunately, many of us Southern old-fahts have used that term for years and I can't take credit for it. *grin Maybe it is a colloquialism.

Archsquash, did your seed "declare" in two days, or germinate in two days? (A pop quiz!)

Shoe

Ooo, ooo, me, me! Call on me! I know!