At several of the nodes along the stem proliferations are visible greatly increasing the chances that the stems may be amenable to cloning. It is very unlikely that these Dianthus will very produce flowers and can only be propagated through tissue culture, cuttings or layering. In looking at the structure within the green ball, I am wondering if it would be possible to propagate some stalks which resemble miniature plants.
Mike
Good luck! I hope that you try ALL of the different ways to propagate so that you will be able to tell which ones work the best.
This is a simple group photograph of all five of the green balls clustered together. When I post the pictures to DG PlantFiles I will identify them as Dianthus barbatus Green Trick.
The Breanthus line of Dianthus have identical leaves as Dianthus barbatus Green Trick. Go to this page http://www.hilverdakooij.nl/dianthus/ and run the slideshow for the Breanthus line.
Mike
You know ,, one of the things that crossed my mind was the possibility that both name s could be correct, Green Ball and Green Trick.
Since it seems the plant was auctioned off, the person buying it would have the right to name it, or is using the name it was given, but this plant would have probably also been wholesaled out to licensed growers.
Ther e massiv e carnation farm growers in Sa and Mexico. They could be growing it and using a differnt twist on the name . I coem across thsi allthe time where the orginator may have oen name and somebody else so give s it a differnt name when they growing , yet they both have exactly the same plant.
Mike.... doe s the tag happen to say which florsit from Columbia they came from? It just might be possible to trace from the wholesale cut flower companies in google to see which florsitoperation suppling them and from there trace the grower and see if this is a rename d plant coming from them or a whole new hybrid.
Going to be interestign to see , if you can get it cloned and what it will do.
For any single cultivar of any plant, officially speaking now, there can be three names. If they are used correctly, they would be presented as such:
1) The cultivar name - that should be in single quotes if written in conjunction with the botanical binomial
example: Echinacea purpurea 'Magnus'
or without quotes if written in "plain English"
example: Magnus Purple coneflower
2) The registered name - that should always be followed by the registered symbol (®)
example: Malus Red Jewel® or Red Jewel® Crabapple
3)The trademark name - that should always be followed by the trademark symbol (™)
example: Syringa Tinkerbelle™ or Tinkerbelle™ Liliac
Then there are, of course, the bastardizaions of such names, along with additional, simply made up names that might better sell the product, or is a way of skirting royalties if the official name is used.
starlight1153,
There was only a single product tag on a cellophane wrapper. There was also a message of the cellophane wrapper indicating that the wrapper was recyclable. Attached is a photograph of the product tag. There was also a small plastic bag of “Plant Food” which most likely contains silver salts and which I have no intention of using. Now you have exactly the same information that I do.
Mike
Leftwood,
Two of the green balls are asymmetric to one side which allowed me to take photographs of the underside of each green ball without disturbing the balls. Attached are both photographs.
Mike
One of two.
Leftwood,
Let me know if you require any additional photographs. What are you looking for?
Mike
Two of two.
While trying to hunt some more on Green Trick I came across a post that said Green Trick and Trachelium 'Jade' are very very similar in height, lasts 2-4 weeks too.
Here a link, if ya go down and click on the pic for Trachelium ' Jade' which is comign from out of Ecuadar for cut flower floral arrangements. I wonder fi it possible that what is in these bouquets? Just a thought.
http://www.greenmountainfloristsupply.com/ffgallery.shtml
I couldn't find enough good pic s to try and compare it to what you have Mike. What ya think. Do you have a Carnation or a Trachelium?
Leftwood.. I knwo what ya mean. I goign crazy tryign to find out if two Salvias with differnt name s are actually the same but with a name change. Gets frustrating sometimes. grrr : )
starlight1153,
You found an interesting link but Trachelium 'Jade' is not a Dianthus, however it is a competitor to Dianthus barbatus Green Trick in that they are both used as green fillers in flower arrangements. The company behind Trachelium 'Jade' is Esmeralda Breeding & Biotechnology also know as Esmeralda Farms.
Jade Trachelium
http://www.esmeraldafarms.com/Product_detail.asp?name=Jade%20Trachelium&variety=65&index=0
http://www.esmeraldafarms.com/uploads/ProductsPDF/65.pdf
Esmeralda Farms
http://www.esmeraldafarms.com/
They only offer three Dianthus cultivars.
Dianthus
http://www.esmeraldafarms.com/Products_list.asp?variety=93&name=Dianthus
This is another Dutch flower company which is an international operation with farms in Central and South America.
I am not too concerned about the marketing name but I am going to use Dianthus barbatus Green Trick for any posts in DG as that appears to be the most prevalent name and is used by the company behind the plant. What I can’t find is how Dianthus barbatus Green Trick was created but I am still looking. I don’t believe that it is genetically engineered otherwise the European environmentalists would be screaming about the sale of the plant. What I suspect is that they may be using a genetic recessive in Dianthus which surpasses the expression for flowers. This is a genetic lethal which would only be useful in special cases. This is pure speculation on my part but this is want I am looking for. If I am correct there is also a line of Green Trick which has flowers and is carrying the lethal gene; Green Trick may not be a genetic dead end.
Go back and look at the Breanthus line of Dianthus carefully as this is where I suspect they inserted the genetic lethal which gave rise to Dianthus barbatus Green Trick. Go to this page http://www.hilverdakooij.nl/dianthus/ and run the slideshow for the Breanthus line. Take away the flowers and you have Green Trick! I can’t find a patent for Green Trick as there is nothing to patent because the responsible gene is out of patent. I am searching the plant patents for a old patent for such a gene.
Mike
Mike.. I had thought about looking for a patent or registration form this mornign too for Green Trick and so far haven't found any.
Maybe Leftwood would knwo if ther e is somepalce special that each new cultivar has to be registere d on and if they have to say who the parents are.
Then again they may be tryign to keep it under wraps to come out with other future colors of this same type of form.
I had also wondere d if they wern't growing the cultivar and disbudding it befor e it could flower. I can't watch the video as I have dial up and not enough power to run it unfortunately.
I busy as all get out right now, but soon a I get a chance, gonan send an email to Carnation breeder here in the state s and see if he happens to know for ur e if it was engineered in Japan and what cultivars they used. O may or may not get an answer. He mainly doe s breeding for just minature carnations.
One of the things I have rea several time s over is the words, "it resemble s the Dianthus barbatus" , not that it in that family for sure .
it remind s me of the what we calling Osu blue tomatoe seeds. The tomatoe s are blueberry tomato.
I know this is on tomatoes, but you might want to take a look through our thread and the links a s you get time. It might giv e you some goo dinformation from OSu and from Austrailia on mayeb how they making some of thes e Dianthus and Carnations coming out now.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/781131/
I imagine Green trick ha s ha d alot of in and out crossing going on and wonder how many thousands of seeds they had to plantbefor e they got a good cultivar.
I gonan keep tryign difernt plays on words and maybe oen of us wil hit gold or shoudl that be " green" LOL
starlight1153,
Thanks for your AU link I will follow-up on it.. I just realized that we searching on the wrong word. References to Dianthus barbatus Green Trick usually has the word “Temarisou” appended to the description. I suspect that “Temarisou” is a Japanese word. When I started searching on “Temarisou” and Japan I stated started finding some interesting pages in Asia. Here are some examples. Unfortunately Google was unable to translate some of the pages.
Google: temarisou japan
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=temarisou+japan&start=10&sa=N
http://e-lll.net/color-flowers/green-flowers/temarisou.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://e-lll.net/color-flowers/green-flowers/temarisou.html&ei=9QMxS6bXEsbilAePleCkBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBkQ7gEwBDgo&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtemarisou%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40
http://agrapp.coa.gov.tw/NewPlant/informationshow.do?no=916&showAllPlant=true
Note the cuttings in the next picture. Could this be in preparation for cloning?
http://agrapp.coa.gov.tw/NewPlant/open_apply/openapplyshow_img.jsp?imgName=09809219161plant.jpg
http://agrapp.coa.gov.tw/NewPlant/open_apply/openapplyshow_img.jsp?imgName=09809219162plant.jpg
http://agrapp.coa.gov.tw/NewPlant/open_apply/openapplyshow_img.jsp?imgName=09809219163plant.jpg
Mike
Picture #1 of yours, Michael, shows best what I was looking for. There are absolutely no flower parts! Even if they were modified (for instance, stamens can sometimes look like petals), there is no ovary, no stamens, no petals, no calyx . . . nothing. Green Trick is not a flower at all! (I suppose the name is quite apropos, then.) It is, in fact, a proliferation of tiny stems.
I have a hazy memory of a similar proliferations in my Grandmothers patch of D. barbatus, but not so pronounced. I can't remember if they originated from the leaf axils or at the apex. I simply assumed it was either caused by an insect attack (on some plants mites will cause this), a virus or a mycoplasm infection. Iinsect and virus caused infections like this are now well understood, mycoplasms are still often misdiagnosed. While I still believe these to be the probable options in Grandma's garden, I think it is unlikely in any greenhouse or production situation.
I cannot think of any stable genetics that could suddenly switch on at that stage, and cause such a growth. My best guess is that something external is being applied to the plants at a particular stage in growth to cause the ensuing growth pattern. I am thinking the plants are either gassed with a compound they are sensitive too, or more likely, a growth regulator has been sprayed or directly applied. In any case, I am sure it is all hush hush. Even though the registration (®) provides some rights to the product for a set number of years, it cannot stop someone from stealing the production process and selling something similar, perhaps with a different Dianthus species, under a different name.
So your attempts to propagate the Green Trick stems will be interesting, but I think you will be disappointed with the results. Yet, I could be wrong. You might also want to try rooting the "flower" stems themselves. There are hundreds of nodes where root could potentially arise.
I wouldn't have a clue how long the effects of such an application would be. Maybe permanent? It is possible that whatever they did could mess up the natural mitosis (cell division) in the meristem (growing point) forever. More likely though, it will wear off.
If you are able to repeat the proliferation, down the line, from a seemingly normal cutting, then my educated conjecture is out the window. But if you decide to put Green Trick in the Plant Files, please make a note that the "flower" is not actually a flower, rather a proliferation of tiny stems, and that there is some question as to whether this is a result of genetics (and thus a true cultivar), or some external factors. You could use my exact wording, if you like.
---------------------------------------------------
Agreed: T. 'Jade' is definitely not a dianthus.
-------------------------------------------------
I have many places to look for official plant names. Taxonomy is a huge interest of mine. I looked in all of these, but could not find any Green Trick or Temarisou. Most, however, do not include trademark or registered names, but only the original cultivar name. The Swedish one, Michael, I think you will want to bookmark.
http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.com/gardeninghelp/PlantFinder/bloom.asp?start=S&end=S
http://mansfeld.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=185:7:8419461770656854
http://pgrdoc.bioversity.cgiar.org/taxcheck/grin/index.html
http://skud.ngb.se/
(click on Växnamn. Dianthus is in the family Caryophyllaceae.)
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfgenera.asp
Unfortunately my nephew, who live in Japan for 5 years helping to teach English there, wouldn't have a clue what kangi characters having to do with plants would mean.
Good luck in you efforts,
Rick
Rick... I sent Michael soem links this morning, and just from the small amoutn I was able to grasp of the scientific reports, it has wher e the Japanse using alot of Agrobacterium to modify the Carnations.
Was readign soem artile s wher e the agrobacterium would cause galls and modification of stems and leaves, so it mayeb what goign on some, with what you have said abotu havign modfied stems.
I found the company!
Flower Plants & Seeds, Miyoshi Co. Ltd.
http://www.miyosi.co.jp/english/index.html
There is absolutely no mention of Dianthus barbatus Green Trick or any Dianthus for that matter on the website. But watch the slideshow on the homepage and in two frames you will see pictures of Dianthus barbatus Green Trick. Miyoshi’s area of specialization is virus free cell cultures. I have no idea why all references were removed from the website. The pictures were obviously overlooked.
Google: Miyoshi temarisou
http://www.google.com/search?q=Miyoshi+temarisou&hl=en&filter=0
This search again find Government of Taiwan website which deals with some type of plant registration process. The wording is in Chinese but the Google auto-translation functions don’t work and you have to do a line at a time.
Plant Variety Rights Notice Inquiry System - Varieties cases of inquiries - species information
http://agrapp.coa.gov.tw/NewPlant/informationshow.do?no=916&showAllPlant=true
The pictures on Dianthus barbatus Green Trick on the Taiwan website are excellent.
I was able to translate the Chinese character set for the plant name into English and found that the name was “Green Goblin”. I suspect that “temarisou” is Green Goblin in Japanese. I translated “Green Goblin” back into Japanese and successful ran a Google search and found the cartoon character by that name, all in Japanese. We really need someone who is fluent in English, Chinese and Japanese to look at these web pages. I need an accurate translation of the date formats.
If no one needs any more photographs will cutup the stems for cloning later tonight, although it is a long-shot. Last chance for additional pictures!
Mike
Ah . . . agrobacterium - the external factor.
Mike.... Send a dmail to TomTom... TomTom usually post over her e in the container gardenign forum. Love Looking at TomTom's creations.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/995034/
Wa thinking. Your mainly going to try the stems right? If Rick us right and the flower is not a flower, then I would take some of the tops and try and start them.
Now when I start Dianthus I just pinch off right at a node and plant that in soil and just keep it moist and misted. I usally have them root in about a month. You might a whole section of the top and maybe if ya have enough try breaking soem pieces off and trying to root them.
Mike... y a need to please, to think of where this threa d gonan need to be moved. I am on dial up and others may be too and soon we gonna need anew thread and it won't be permitted here.
Maybe ove r in Perennials or over to the hybridizers forum and link from here can be put on the ne w thread and visus versa. Might get some other Carnation and Doianthus folks that growing or trying to breed jumping in too.
I found some interesting links by doing a temporarily search in Google for the word Temarisou before it gained notoriety.
Google: Temarisou (for 2005)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1&site=mbd&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2005%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2005&q=%22Temarisou%22&btnG=Search&aq=f
Google: Temarisou (for 2006)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1&site=mbd&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2006%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2006&q=%22Temarisou%22&btnG=Search&aq=f
In 2007 the number of hits begins to increase.
Google: Temarisou (for 2007)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1&site=mbd&q=%22Temarisou%22&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2007%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2007
This website was useful because it allowed me to identify the Japanese symbols for “Temarisou”.
Flowers (Japanese)
http://hanasayo.kanagawa879.com/blog/category/%E8%8A%B1/
Flowers (Translated to English)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://hanasayo.kanagawa879.com/blog/category/%25E8%258A%25B1/&ei=4ogyS6v5MNK9lAef86GeBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://hanasayo.kanagawa879.com/blog/category/%25E8%258A%25B1/%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
The two pictures from the above page which are of interest.
http://hanasayo.kanagawa879.com/blogs/files/2009/06/temarisou.jpg
http://hanasayo.kanagawa879.com/blogs/files/2009/06/temarisou-2.jpg
The captions on the above pictures identified the plant at “Temari grass” and give me the Japanese characters for that phrase which I could then submit to Google.
To read the following Google search in English click on the translate option.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=%E3%81%93%E3%81%A1%E3%82%89%E3%81%AF%E3%80%80%E3%81%A6%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8A%E8%8D%89%E3%80%82&tl=en&sa=N&tab=Tw&q=%E3%81%A6%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8A%E8%8D%89
A Google image search confirms that we can now search for Dianthus barbatus Green Trick in Japanese which may mean “Green Grass” if Temari is a shade of green.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&text=%E3%81%93%E3%81%A1%E3%82%89%E3%81%AF%E3%80%80%E3%81%A6%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8A%E8%8D%89%E3%80%82&tl=en&q=%E3%81%A6%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8A%E8%8D%89&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
We know that by 2005 the Dianthus was being grown in greenhouses and fields in Japan. I still don’t know how they did the “trick” but given the open field cultivation this has to be a permanent change and not a one time chemical treatment. I am still looking.
I will make one prediction; based on the following photographs of Dianthus barbatus 'Nigricans' we will be seeing a “Red Trick” in the not too distant future.
http://ps-l.s3.amazonaws.com/20277_0.jpg
http://www.estabrooksonline.com/images/catalog2/varieties/dianthus_nigricans.jpg
Mike
I am attempting to root Dianthus barbatus Green Trick cuttings in Perlite (Miracle Gro) using one node, two node and the larger cuttings from the green ball in a transparent plastic container to maintain humidity. Before harvesting cuttings, I dissected one of the green balls to give an internal view of the structure. The green ball is a highly modified main stem where the nodes are growing very close together but are still staggered at 90º rotations to the nodes above and below. At each node there is leaf and proliferation on opposite sides of the stem where the proliferations intern become two new stems with their own nodes, leaves and proliferations until the outer surface of the green ball is formed which is comprised of very small leaves. Basically the Dianthus barbatus Green Trick is an excellent example of a living Fractal assemblage which is comprised of increasingly smaller identical subassemblies. To learn more about Fractals review the flowing link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
In nature we encounter structures which at first appear to be very complex until it is realized that they can be described by simple recursive mathematically expressions encoded into living DNA. Understanding the underlying mathematics only enhances the beauty of the living structures.
In answer to a question raised by Leftwood the stems of Dianthus caryophyllus are filled with a soft central pulp while the stems of Dianthus barbatus are hollow between the nodes. If I had access to grafting wax I would most likely have applied it to the tops of each cut stem.
My local Shop Rite is sold-out of Dianthus barbatus Green Trick and we will have to see if they get anymore in. I hope the attached photograph is of interest and I will let everyone know if I have any success rooting the cuttings in four to six weeks.
Mike
I am glad to read that dianthus wintersows well. I am trying various sweet williams, rainbow loveliness, flashing lights and more siberian blues. I am using half or less of each type of seed, so I can still direct sow some if the wintersowing is unsuccessful.
I am reading the rooting experiments with interest. Have you tried coir (coconut shells, lizard bedding) instead of perlite? Some people prefer that for rooting roses.
Rainbow Loveliness, Dianthus knappii, and Siberian Blues have wintersowed successfully for me. I have read that most of the perennial dianthus do wintersow without a problem. Please let us know how successful you are with your seeds, GardenQuilts.
Linda
I will. I am sure I will be back for advise if they germinate! Right now, they are sitting outside in their bottles doing their thing.
Back on October 26, 2009 I sent a SASE to Rand B. Lee of The American Dianthus Society requesting his list of Dianthus plant and seed sources which were advertised on several Internet posts. After many months of no response I gave up on ever hearing from Rand; therefore, I was pleasantly surprised to receive my long-lost SASE in early April 2010 postmarked April 6, 2010 and containing the Dianthus list. The list was neatly printed on three pages and was titled “DIANTHUS RETAIL PLANT & SEED SOURCES”. On the chance that the list had already been posted on the Internet, I did a Google search on several of the key phrases in the document but found nothing. With the intention of doing an OCR scan of the document, which could then be posted on DG as text, I placed the envelope in one of the many compartments in my computer attaché case where it remained undisturbed until last weekend when I rediscovered it. My apologies for that oversight.
Yesterday I scanned the Dianthus list to PDF and Word documents, with the intention of posting the Word document to this DG forum. Before I made the post, I decided to do one more Google search and discovered that Rand B. Lee had setup a website at http://www.RandBLee.com/ sometime after June 11, 2010. In addition to posts on his many interests, the website contains his current Email address (randblee@randblee.com) and the Dianthus plant and seed sources on this PDF document http://www.randblee.com/pdf/Dianthus%20Sources.pdf which was created on June 28, 2010 and to which he links from his gardening page at http://www.randblee.com/gardening.html.
Like the earlier paper document, there are some links which need to be updated because they have changed or are inoperative and this information should be communicated to Rand. This is a great resource and is just in time for planning the 2011 growing season. I am particularly interest in his recommendation for the book “Carnations and Pinks For Garden and Greenhouse: Their True History and Complete Cultivation” by John Galbally with Eileen Galbally,
Mike
I'm pleased to announce the new Dianthus Forum!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/dianthus/all/
I need a couple of things from you all....
First, if you will collect some dianthus threads from other forums here. I'll get them moved. It helps to have some material already in place when folks open the forum.
Next, I'd like to add a descriptive header. So if you'll put your heads together with a few suggestions as to what you'd like for it to say, I'll get it posted.
Something along the lines of what is posted in the Iris Forum would be nice: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/iris/all/
Have fun!
Melody,
On behalf of all the Dianthus fans on DG thank you very much.
To get things started here is the open source text from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianthus
-----------------
Dianthus is a genus of about 300 species of flowering plants in the family Caryophyllaceae, native mainly to Europe and Asia, with a few species extending south to north Africa, and one species (D. repens) in arctic North America. Common names include carnation (D. caryophyllus), pink (D. plumarius and related species) and sweet william (D. barbatus). The name Dianthus is from the Greek words dios ("god") and anthos ("flower"), and was cited by the Greek botanist Theophrastus.
The species are mostly perennial herbs, a few are annual or biennial, and some are low subshrubs with woody basal stems. The leaves are opposite, simple, mostly linear and often strongly glaucous grey-green to blue-green. The flowers have five petals, typically with a frilled or pinked margin, and are (in almost all species) pale to dark pink. One species, D. knappii, has yellow flowers with a purple centre.
The color pink may be named after the flower, coming from the frilled edge of the flowers: the verb "pink" dates from the 14th century and means "to decorate with a perforated or punched pattern" (maybe from German "pinken" = to peck). Source: Collins Dictionary. This verb sense is also used in the name of pinking shears.
-----------------
The following 1901 book has a nice introduction to the phrase “Divine Flower”.
American Carnation Culture
By L. L. Lamborn (1901)
----------------
Three hundred years before the Christian Era, Theophrastus, a disciple of Socrates, philosopher and moralist, lived in Greece. He published a little work on the Flora of his native land; he had no conception of genera and species, and divided all plants into three classes; Aquatic, Flowering Plants, and Culinary Herbs. He wrote in Greek, and was the first author to mention and name a little procumbent, five petaled flowering plant; he called it Dianthus, from two Greek words, Dio (divine), anthos (flower), meaning Divine Flower.
----------------
Many of the older books are too Carnation specific and don’t address the genus Dianthus directly. The use of the phrase “Divine Flower” is must in the introduction.
I am still searching the Archive.org and Google Books resources to determine if I can find anything which would be applicable.
Mike
This message was edited Oct 16, 2010 1:37 PM
Oh Melody,
I'm so delighted that we will now have our own forum. I know Mike can be lots of help with it. He's kept in contact with me and we've kept the discussion on Dianthus plants, Carnations, and seeds going. Thanks Mike!
I just sent you some links that I had copied a while back, before my Dad became ill. I hope you find them helpful and I will look for more for you.
I love these plants and will really enjoy the forth-coming conversations about them. Thank you for setting this up for us!
Linda
Good luck on your new forum!
Power to the people!
Rick
