Proposal: Carnations (Dianthus caryophyllus) Forum

forum and co-op would be great,I would love to be involved!

I am glad that you started this thread. I tried some dianthus seeds this year, without much success. I need to learn more so that my next attempt is more successful. I would like to grow classic carnations also.

I will keep reading for advice on trying again with seeds, perhaps winter sowing this time.

GardenQuilts,

At this time of the year Dianthus seeds are difficult to find in North American garden centers because the seed companies reclaim all their old stock. I found this eBay seller with a feedback score of 99.8% in Malaysia who has 20 verities of Dianthus including two I was looking for, so I ordered three verities of Dianthus and am now awaiting delivery. Who knows, the Dianthus may be a little different from what we see in the USA.
http://myworld.ebay.com/seeds2yous/

Dianthus verities:
http://stores.ebay.com/seeds2yous__W0QQ_sacatZseeds2yousQQ_sidZ861926008?_nkw=Dianthus+&submit=Search&LH_TitleDesc=1

Prices were reasonable and shipping was discounted so I took a chance. The one negative feedback in the last 12 months was posted in error and the buyer is trying to correct it so the actual score is higher.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I used to live in Montclair and have friends in Nutley. They aren't gardeners, except for tomatoes and basil.

I tried cheddar pinks, Siberian blues and fringed loveliness, but none germinated. I direct sowed them in April. We did have late frosts and lots of rain this year. All my seedlings struggled. I picked up a couple of mixed varieties from the seed clearance bin last month. I want to mix a few plants in a cottage planting with roses and bulbs.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a peach colored carnation (Dianthus caryophyllus) ?

I hope you like the seeds from seeds2you. I like small companies with interesting selections.

GardenQuilts,
I successfully sowed Siberian Blues a couple of year ago in the spring. My plant now puts out a few seedlings every year, so I know my seeds are fertile. I could send you some seeds if you are interested. D-mail me if you would like some.

Winter Sowing seems to work well for getting Dianthus to grow too. I had success with Dianthus Knappi and Rainbow Loveliness that way.


Linda

Linda,

Exactly how blue are your “Siberian Blues”? I have seen photographs in DG from a light purple to blue as these PlantFiles photographs demonstrate:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/214833/

Could you comment on the color and post a picture of your “Siberian Blues”?

The eBay seed seller seeds2yous, which I linked to above, had this photograph titled “Dianthus Barbatus Tall Single Herald” which reports to show a blue Dianthus which is not a Dianthus amurensis.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d179/cwanmaw/Plants/9dd17a35.jpg

Unfortunately the photographs in PlantFiles for Dianthus barbatus don’t look anything like the above photograph but I was still tempted to purchase a pack of seeds with my order.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Caryophyllaceae/Dianthus/barbatus/cultivar/0/

From your post, I take it that you “Siberian Blues” self propagate from seeds each year? Is there any intervention on your part and is the size of the planting stable over time? Given your Zone is colder than mine this cultivate is on interest.

Mike

I was going to post a response yesterday about my ''blues '' not being blue , but couldn't find a good photo.
The photo below is all I could find.
If you look the ''blues'' are to the left of spooky. the flowers below and right are balloon flowers that look much more like blue.( in my humble opinion)
My seeds were purchased from TM

THis is what came up in the same pot this year, I am not positive , but believe it wintered over.

I saves seeds from the spooky in my first post and this is what I got. Looks like they crossed.
Spooky did not come back.

Mike, I'll look in my files for a picture of Siberian Blues. They are NOT blue. I'd call them mauve. But they are quite pretty, and my plant is doing well.

Like a lot of people, I was expecting "blue," and I did some on-line research. And like other flowers, such as daylilies and irises, sellers of plants and seeds - and even people who grow them! will doctor pictures. Unfortunately it happens all the time. At the time I grew out my seeds,there was only one picture on-line that was true to the color that SB Dianthus actually is. And I think it was at the Thompson Morgan site. If I want to purchase a plant now, I do LOTS of research and look at numerous pictures before purchasing the plant so I won't be disappointed. I'm a decorative painter so I work alot with colors and I'm picky about what I expect something to look like.

I looked at the links you posted, Mike, and I think that your Dianthus Barbatus Tall Single Herald” is just a Dianthus Tall Barbatus variety that the seller tacked on a descriptive term of "Herald of Spring" as a selling term. You could call Crocus, Iris Reticulata,Daffodil,etc a Herald of Spring plant!

No intervention needed to get seedlings from Siberian Blues. When I saw them, I almost pulled them as weeds. We mulch every year, so as a rule I don't get a lot of volunteers of any of my flowers. They had Dianthus foliage so I left them to grow and they bloomed,allowing me to see what they were. Now that I know who they are, I'm keeping them and will give them away next spring.

Gardengus, your Siberian Blues look like they are correct. I also like your Spooky and Siberian Blues mix flower.

Linda

Well what ya know. The storms yesterday kept me from goign to mailbox and went up this morning and what was sittign in my mailbox , but the Carnation seeds I ordere d from the above link from Malaysia.

I had figrue d even if they did arrive that they woudl just be a bunch of seed stuffed in a little plastic envie, but nope. The seed came in a seale d foil packet, with a little gernimation pic and both were sealed inside a plastic wrap and then seale d again in bubble wrap before beign put in and envelope.

I must say I am totally impresse d with presentation of seed and speedy service from Nature-Seeds. Now just hope soem of the seed is viable.

May have to go back and see what els e they got in the Dianthus. Mike did you get yours yet? When I get ready to sow, will giv e all the seed a sterile bath before sowing. Just incase. Like ya her e on the kids shredde d wheat commercial. Safety first. especialyl with plants and seeds.

Did they actually come from Malaysia (was there a Malaysian stamp)?
Just curious.

Sur e was they had 3 Malaysia postage stamps and the country stamp on them.

Gardengus,

Interesting photographs, I wonder if Spooky has reduced pollen fertility and the Siberian Blue pollen had its way. It will be interesting to see how the next generation sorts itself out. Did you save the hybrid seeds? What is the history of Spooky and will Spooky breed true if isolated?

Mike

Starlight1153,

Here is the link to the Dianthus seed offering from your eBay seller in Malaysia:
http://stores.ebay.com/Nature-Seeds__W0QQ_sidZ564561464?_nkw=Dianthus&submit=Search&LH_TitleDesc=1

I like the idea of the sampler packets as they give you a cross-section of Dianthus cultivates which you may not purchase if packaged individually. Yes it is a bit of a crap-shoot but that is what makes it fun and gives one a quick education in Dianthus. I think I will purchase some seeds for a border area to see how the Dianthus likes New Jersey. Are you going to start yours indoors or will you plant them outside and if so when?

I have not received the Carnation and Dianthus seeds I ordered from “seeds2yous” who is also in Malaysia but I ordered after you did and don’t expect them for another week. It will be interesting to see if the packing is as good as your order. While packing is not an indicator of the quality of the plants it is a good indicator of the professionalism of the vendor. For my first order I was very interested in pure Carnation cultivates for line breeding.

Mike

I do not know the history of spooky , I purchased it as a plant.
Yes I did save this years seed from the cross, so next year I will see what I get.
It is interesting to see how genetics work.

Michael... Ya that what so fun. Ther e always that possibility of somethign new different or totally unexpected. I don't know how to play craps, but I do love bingo LOL

I probably gonan start them inside. I been reading what the 16th Edition of Redball ha s to say.

" When begining a ne w crop, the soil temp should be about 60F ( 16C), and the gh temperature 61 to 68 F. High temperatures combines with low light intensity will result in flowers with inferior quality. Do not allow th egh temp to exceed 77F.

The optimum gh humidity for producing carnations is between 65 and 90%. When humidity is higher, plant activity drops, and they become more sesceptibe to diseases such as Alternaria and Botrytis. High light levels and too little humidity are harmful to young crop and may cause leaf burning, weak foliage with closed stomata and drought-related infections of parasites, such as re dspider mites.

Light ad flower induction. Carnation flowers are induced when the plant has developed seven full-grown leaf pairs and when day length is 13 to 14 hours of suddicient intensity. Artificial lighting of 10 ro 15 watts (38 to 50 lux) per square meter is commonly used for flower induction in periods of naturally low light levels and short days. "

I figure if I start them indoors, can control conditions a whole lot better. Have decided when to start actually. I got antsy hands to get them sowed now, and may tryu and do a few just to see what germination is like. Not sure exactly when is gonna be the best time.

Sorry for the delay in getting back on the seed shipment form Malaysia but I had a problem with my Hibiscus seeds which you can read about on the Hibiscus Forum. It looks like I lost about 90% of my Hibiscus seeds to a beetle but I was able to identify the critter and am taking countermeasures. Actually, I lost the seeds in August but did not know it at the time.

The Carnation and Dianthus seeds I ordered on November 2, 2009 from “seeds2yous” arrived on Thursday November 12, 2009 in a small envelope used to send personal letters with Malaysian postage stamps. Inside was a folded blank sheet of paper to which was scotch taped the seed packers. The packets were small ZipLock bags which had small neatly hand letter labels affixed to the outside of each. The seeds where at the bottom of each bag which was rolled into tube that then was scotch taped over the zipper forming a tube where the outer wall is an air cushion to protect the seeds. The tubes were then affixed to the blank sheet of paper in a row with tape which was then folded and inserted into the envelope. In this way the tubes can’t move during shipment.

The envelope contained my five packages of seeds and four packages of “Mystery Seeds” including two vegetables, one mix of desert plants and one strain of wheat. As I have little interest in the mystery seeds, I will see if someone else in the family is interested.

All in all, a simple, effective and low cost way to ship seeds locally or internationally. I plan to use it myself in the future.

Now I have to get ready to germinate the seeds indoors!

Mike

I have been purchasing inexpensive cut carnations with the objective of learning how to propagate Carnations from cuttings. Using stock from the flower-trade has the disadvantage of not knowing the age of the cuttings with which you are working; and, given that there is no longer a viable Carnation industry in the United States most of the cut Carnation sold in the United States are from abroad. In the books of Carnation horticulture the selection choice fresh stock is emphasized. My initial efforts can only be described as disasters but I did learn from them. From my current effort I have a number of cuttings which appear to be viable and producing new growth but it will be a few more weeks before I asses the results. I have four plants from my previous effort which are growing slowly.

The cuttings are growing in 2.5”x2.5”x3.5” plastic pots which are contained in a nested pair of standard “1020 Trays”. The inner tray is perforated so that water will drain from the inner tray into the outer tray. If the cuttings are overwater the inner tray can be lifter to drain excess water. As recommended by Jojo Sigurgeirson, I am using cactus potting soil to root the cuttings, the advantage being that the cuttings don’t have to transplanted as early, if artificial rooting media were used. For the first two weeks a large transparent plastic bag was used to maintain humidity but this setup is proving to be awkward and the use of a high humidity dome for 1020 Trays is being investigated. After the plastic bag is removed the cutting as misted every time they are inspected and the 1020 Trays inspected to verify that water is not accumulating. The attached photograph shows a tray with growing Carnation cuttings.

I am using two node cuttings with about 0.5” of extra stem at the top and bottom of the cuttings. The bottom node is buried about 2” into the cactus potting soil. The purpose of the bottom node is to support the formation of roots but I have noticed that the bottom node can also send up new shoots.

The biggest problem with rooting carnations is overwatering which rots the stem and lower node. The second hurdle is humidity control. I am continuing to propagate Carnation cuttings with the objective of having enough plants to put out this coming spring,

In reviewing my successes and failures I am going to change the protocols I use for the next rounds of tests, which include the following.

1. Use of 7” high humidity domes for 1020 Trays.
2. Use of a two node cuttings with 2.5” of stem at the bottom and the lower node at soil level.
3. Use of a one node cutting with 2.5” of stem at the bottom and the single node at soil level.

In attempting to propagate cut Carnations, one of the problems is finding useful sections from which to take a two node cutting. If Carnations can be propagated from a single node cutting, that would be a significant advantage to the home horticulturist. In addition, cut Carnations tend to have longer distances between nodes which means that clearance inside a humidity chamber becomes an issue. Remember that most of the instructions for propagating Carnations were designed for commercial greenhouses one hundred years ago

I would be very interested in anyone’s experience with prorogating Carnations or other Dianthus species from cuttings. As a secondary area of inquiry, any non-seed propagation experiences would be of interest. I am interested in both successes and failures as I want to understand what will and will not work for the home gardener.

Mike

You have a lot of things working against you.

1) As you may already know, roots will probably only grow from the nodes, and not the stem in between ( the internode). In cases like this, there is no reason to include that part, except for stablization and carbohydrate storage that might aid in rooting. I don't remember if stems are hollow on carnations, but if they are, carbohydrate storage is nil. a long extension of said plant part kept with cutting above or below is detrimental, as this is inviting rot. The cutting has no reason to keep it, so it won't expend energy to keep it alive.

Extending the internode deeper into the medium is especially dreadful. The deeper you go, the less oxygen available, and that encourages rotting organisms. Also the more water, that displaces pore spaces that would normally hold oxygen. Do not think that you are providing a way for the cutting to absorb water by extending it farther down in the medium. It doesn't work that way. Non-root plant parts of cuttings have the same ability to absorb water above or below the surface. Actually, if anything above would have great propensity.

If the stem is solid AND roots do originate from the internode, than disregard what I just said, except that there is still no reason to keep internodal sections above the top node.

2) You are working with mature non-vigorous material. Not anything you can do about it, but it is a disadvantage. In the plant world, this can be important but not devastating, to completely debilitating your project, and all integrations in between, depending on the the plant species you work with, and sometimes even the variety of a said species. The degree in which this affects carnations, I do not know.

Your aim would be to find immature material, or at least stems that have no flower buds. Perhaps some sideshoots?

3) Young vigorous shoots will probably be most successful, when the soft tissue is half hardened. There is a fine line here. Too hard and it will be more difficult to root. Too soft and it rots too easily.

4) A high volume of air (oxygen) is extremely important in the growing medium. It encouraged root initiation and growth, and discourages pathogens. I know this goes "against" common sense, but you aim should be to reduce water loss as much as possible. Water absorption via the medium is a very secondary concern, and won't happen until roots grow anyway. Once the plant grows its own roots, there will be no absorption problems, no matter what the medium.

I suggest you run trials with your denser cactus soil versus lighter perlite/peat/vermiculite or a mixture of perlite, peat, vermiculite. Although none of my recommended mediums are fertile, they do have a better capacity of holding nutrients than cactus soil. Very light fertilization after rooting would do well.

I root woody plants in pure sand, but herbaceous materials in perlite or vermiculite.

5) Who knows what is in the floral preservative that was used, that is now in your cuttings. There may be root initiation inhibitors whose real purpose was to extend the life of the flower.

6) Your aim will be to keep the rooting medium warmer than the air temperature. This will encourage rooting. Not knowing if rooting temperature for carnations has been investigated, I would guess optimum is 70F.

The other way around: air temp warmer than rooting medium temp, will discourage rooting, but I don't think that that alone would prevent it.



You might also want to peruse the propagation forum for basic dos and don'ts, and helpful hints.

Rick

i just got some carnation caryophyllus seeds. can i just put them in the dirt outside now and hope that some will come up next year?

Rick,

Your understanding of my problem is unfortunately all too correct. With the disappearance of domestic Carnations growers many of the Carnations which are sold as cut flowers are no longer available in the US. While it is difficult to clone cut Carnations it is not impossible and I only need to be lucky once with any given cultivate. Once I have a plant with roots, more conventional preparation techniques can be employed. As I have noted in previous posts most of the cut Carnations are pollen sterile to extend the life of flower.

I found your insights on the problem quite interesting and some of your comments clicked with other readings on Carnations cloning. Here are some my responses to your comments.

When cut Carnations are harvested the side-shoots are removed for appearance sake. If you purchase cheep Carnations at a discount store you will find side-shoots and yes I have had greater success with these proliferations. I will pay greater attention to theses growths in the future.

From me readings, Carnations will only root or grow new shoots at the nodes. I have actually had cuttings sending out shoots from the lower node which was buried, in many cases I suspect, too deep. I have buried the lower node to stabilize the cutting but realize from you comments that could be a serious mistake. In some of my readings, small supports, such as coffee stirring straws, were user to stabilize the cutting until it grows roots. In this way the lower node can be nearer the surface and there will be no need to extend the stems beyond the nodes; also, I can test one node cuttings. Are there better ways to stabilize the cuttings?

Carnations are one of the flowers which are very responsive to ethylene suppressing silver salts. One of the primary manufactures of this class of chemicals is Chrysal International http://www.chrysal.com. If you have any doubt as to the applicability of these chemicals to Carnations, checkout the company’s web page at http://www.chrysal.com/Default.aspx?id=155&tg=2348&lan=557 and note the flowers at the bottom of the page. If you receive any packets of “Flower Food” with the cut Carnations obviously don’t use the chemicals if you want to clone the flowers. There is nothing you can do about treatment of the flowers just after cutting except hope that the grower didn’t use the chemicals because of the costs but there are chemicals which can be used to recover the silver. Again low cost Carnations are a better choice because they are less likely to have been chemically treated but in some cases you have to take your chances. I haven’t found any documentation as to the effect of ethylene suppressors on rooting behavior and this remains an area of investigation and concern.

I have been using Miracle-Gro cactus potting soil which is comprised of peat, perlite and sand but will give perlite/vermiculite a try for the next test. In the Carnation industry of 100 years ago ash or sand were commonly used were. Temperature control was considered important but there the advice was all over the place. I will have to review the old texts on that subject. The reported success rates were very high but they were working with choice stock.

Thank you for your time and advice, I will search the propagation forum for additional guidance.

Mike

This is how I would stick the cuttings

Out of sheer dumb luck, I successfully rooted mine by laying the stems on cactus medium and keeping it humid. I barely pressed the stems (horizontally) into the medium, maybe less than half way.

JuneyBug,

Would you please provide more details? Are you saying that you took cut Carnations and laid them horizontally just at or below the surface of cactus potting soil? If this is correct, how many nodes were on each stem? Can you describe the growth conditions and duration until the plants were self-sufficient? Do you have any pictures?

I find the idea counterintuitive but absolutely intriguing? Details please!

Mike

Leftwood,

I am doing much the same as you describe with a two node cutting. Because Carnations for the cut flower market are encouraged to grow long stems, typical two-node segments are on average 5 to 6 inches long. The lower node is buried about 1.5 inches into the soil to stabilize the upper segment. Based on Rick’s input we probably want the lower node as close to the surface as possible.

Have you actually attempted to root any Carnations?

Mike

To all,

It has been over a month since I sent a letter to Rand B. Lee of the most likely defunct American Dianthus Society with a stamped self-addressed envelope inside. The original letter has not been returned by the Post Office and I have not received a reply either. For now we can cross the American Dianthus Society off the list.

Mike

It was dumb luck based on a tip that I had remembered from girl-hood. I could not find seeds at Fort Polk, Louisiana, in early spring, 1991. I laid 5 or 6 full length stems onto the dirt and pressed them in about 1/2 way. I had trimmed them back to a node at each end. I kept them covered, on a covered porch in bright light, the natural humidity there is 80%++ After the leaves were about 3", I took the cover off during the mornings so they could get used to the wind. These stems grew plants at about 1/2 of the nodes. These stems were fresh from delivery to the florist. These stems were from both ones whose flowers we clipped off and ones that didn't have flowers (young stems) I don't know which ones grew... I think both, but I don't remember. My Grandfather and Uncles were horticulturists in Arkansas back in the 20's to 70's and one of them had told me to do that with the stems when I clipped them for corsages.
I moved to Hawaii in 1993 and tried several times again with no luck. Yeah, Hawaii. Where prunings will root to the driveway while waiting on the recycling truck. I never tried again, but kept it in mind to ask an elder at a family reunion. Turned out that the only one still with us is an allergic/non -gardener and does not know anything about what goes on with flowers and plants.

I seem to reemember losing a lot of them when I started prepairing them for eventual potting by cutting between the nodes to separate the plants. Don't rush that like I did. I kept them in pots until fall. I may have done that due to the advice I was following.

Best of luck to you. If you start this project in spring, you should have flowers by fall.

I have never tried to root carnation type dianthus.

I had assumed in my drawing that internodal lengths were only 3-4 inches. So cuttings would be stuck at a 1.5-2 inch depth. I agree, if you are able, to place even shallower if you use the cactus soil medium.

Since you say the internodes are actually 5-6 inches, my drawing, then, is misleading, as I would never stick anything herbaceous in a mostly (or completely) sand mix deeper than 2 inches. However, if you use perlite/vermiculite/peat, a depth of 3 inches is acceptable. This because of the increased air volume within the medium. Perlite and/or vermiculite is preferred.

JuneyBug,

The technique you described is know at ”Cane Cuttings” and is documented on the following page to which I have linked. Apparently you can use one or two node cuttings which will eliminate any stability issues. I suspect that in the case of carnations it would be best to remove the leaf which is to be buried, although the article suggests that the cuttings are leafless.

Plant Propagation by Leaf, Cane, and Root Cuttings: Instructions for the Home Gardener
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8700.html

Cane Cuttings

Cane cuttings provide an easy way to propagate some overgrown, leggy house plants such as dumbcane, corn plant, Chinese evergreen, and other plants with thick stems. Leafless stem sections (2 to 3 inches long) are cut from older stems. Each cane should have one or two nodes (Figure 5). Lay the cutting horizontally on the medium, or insert it vertically with about half of the cutting below the surface of the medium, and leave a bud facing upward. Cane cuttings are usually potted when roots and new shoots appear.

Mike

I can only remember that I was told that this (horizontal) method was the only way to propagate this plant and that I needed to use the longest stems that I could find. I think, but do not remember, that the leaves that would be underground were to be stripped off. ( I am pretty sure that they would rot and spoil the cuttings if you didn't)
Like with all propagation's, this was to be done in the early spring or late summer/early fall due to the hormones that cycle through the plants at different times of the year. This is what I was told in the '60's by my Grandfather and eldest Uncle while propagating plants in their greenhouse and have never read or heard anything referencing cyclical hormones since then. It makes sense though, as I have not had any luck with cuttings taken in the middle of winter...

Hope that these half remembered things help you ^_^

The methodology is is the same, but I would not equate the use of dumbcanes(for instance) with carnations at all. Carnations would be far more difficult, as the starch reserves are miniscule, compared to Draceana's, and any solid stemmed plant, for that matter. It give credence to Junebug's Grandfather's advice of using as long a stem as possible.

I was in my local supermarket today and decided to checkout the cut flowers. I was surprised to find what looked like a cut carnation on the bottom and green fuzz ball on the top which was identified on the Internet as a “Green Ball Dianthus” or “Dianthus Green Ball” as well as other permutations.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=Green+Ball+Dianthus&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0

This plant is not listed in the DG Plant Files. Any idea what this is? I did not see any signs of a flower, just the green fuzz ball on top of what looked like a very typical carnation stem. I found lots of pictures in Google but no information on the background of this plant. If no one has any information on this Dianthus I will purchase a bunch, take some photographs for DG and see if I clone a few plants. How can this green fuzz ball set seeds if it has any seeds? Are we looking a GM carnation, mutation or a chemical treatment?

Mike


This message was edited Dec 20, 2009 9:24 PM

Mike.. I seenthem too in some Christmas bouquets at Walmart the othe r day. They ha d them with red carnations and white mums. Wa s a real pretty bouquet.

If you go to this website..

http://www.betterearthflowers.com/default.asp

Look down the page onthe left you wil find a notation about the one arrangement carrying 15 stems of this new hybrid from the Dianthus family. Looks liek it might have developed from breeding in South America. Not really sur e on that.

I know when ther eis a real nice hybrid minature green carnation called Jade. It nto as dark as the green ball. I wonder if it not a cross somewhere between Jade and unforgetable, as unforgetable as that somewhat ball type form and imagien somethign els e been thrown into the mix too as both of thos e are minature carnations and they had to get the height from somewhere.

I strongly suspect that this is a hybrid of Dianthus barbatus and another Dianthus species.

You can see a smaller version of the Green Ball in this DG Plant File photograph:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/41873/

If I had to speculate, I believe the second species is Dianthus caryophyllus based on the conformation of the stem which is pure carnation.

Dianthus barbatus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianthus_barbatus
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Sweet_william_flower.jpg

Look at the Dianthus barbatus images in Google and note the structure under the flowers.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Dianthus%20barbatus&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

If you remove the flowers, this picture looks very much like the Green Ball Dianthus.
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1313/

We need to get photographs posted to DG Plant Files but I am not sure how to identify the plant. I have done some Google searches and found that there is some serious plant engineering going on with Dianthus barbatus hybrids but could not find this particular case.

Mike

The Green Ball Dianthus cut flower is also being marketed as “Dianthus barbatus Green Trick”.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=dianthus+barbatus+green+trick
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=dianthus+barbatus+green+trick&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0

Here is what I am seeing in my local supermarket:
http://www.dianthus.info/de/info/n8.htm
Here is the German to English translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dianthus.info%2Fde%2Finfo%2Fn8.htm&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Nieuw: Dianthus barbatus ‘Green Trick’ (Dutch)
http://www.flora.nl/nl/OverFloraHolland/Pers/2008%5CPages%5CNieuwDianthusbarbatusGreenTrick.aspx
New: Dianthus barbatus 'Green Trick' (English)
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flora.nl%2Fnl%2FOverFloraHolland%2FPers%2F2008%255CPages%255CNieuwDianthusbarbatusGreenTrick.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Hilverda Plant Technology appears to be the company who engineered the new plant.

HilverdaKooij
http://www.hilverdakooij.nl/en/

Here is the Dianthus barbatus Green Trick:

Dianthus sparkling® product range
http://www.hilverdakooij.nl/dianthus/

The number of Dianthus which this company is growing is unbelievable. Now I have to find out how they did it. I still believe this is a Dianthus barbatus hybrid where tissue culture is being used to propagate the plant. I don’t believe genetic engineering is being used because there are too many anti-GMO laws in Europe.

Mike

Hilverda doe s have soem pretty colros for sure, but was reading an article that said that it was breed in Japan and I knwo they working big time with carnations and that it was taken to the big Flor a show in Holland and the plant and the rights was auctioned off to the company that producing it now. from what I rea d it sterile, so they have to be doing tissue cultur e it woudl seem to get the starts and then maybe growing them out.

Also read that we may be able to find somebody tryign to grow it in US but that it illegal in Uk , probably becaus e of royaltie s and such and it is a regiser cultivar, so if you got a plant to grow and use d it to bree dwith, you would have to get permission from Hilverda to try and register or even market.

You know they had to have paid a pretty penny for it. That for sure!

If I was gonan try do some dabbing, I woudl first check time s on different cultivars for when pollen seeme d be the most viable. Then I would us e q-tips and hand dab. Now the pollen may or may not take, but I think if I did get some pod s to set I would harvest them befor e they ha d a chanc e to abort and then try growing them out in a serile agar.

Whiel I was digging information saw this one. Looks ot be a minature, btu sur e do liek the two-tone colors in it.

http://www.heronswood.com/perennials_perennials-d-to-e_dianthus/dianthus-chomley-farran/

The pic in the link http://www.thegardenlady.org/2009/05/13/unusual-floral-pieces-at-lacroix-restaurant/ (scroll down) leads me to believe it is not a flower, rather a proliferation of tiny stems? This could explain the longevity of the "flower".

I couldn't find any pics with the underside visible. It will be easy for you to tell: is there a calyx tube (for lack of a better term) below the conjunction of the "stems", as there is below the conjunction of petals in a real dianthus flower?

On Monday December 21, 2009 I purchased a bunch of five (5) Dianthus barbatus Green Trick cut stems for $3.99 at Nutley NJ Shop-Rite. Three (3) bunches (15 stems) were on sale for $10.00. The total length of the stems is 20” including the green ball on top. The country of origin was listed as Colombia and the cut flowers were identified as “Green Ball Dianthus”. The steam are unremarkable and closely resemble Carnations (Dianthus caryophyllus) with the possible exception that the leafs were not as rigid as a true carnation. This were defiantly not a pure specimen of Dianthus barbatus.

If you want a specific portion of the stem photographed send me a DM and I will try to accommodate your request. I won’t attempt any cloning until tomorrow. I will take the best photographs and post them to DG PlantFiles.

Mike

There is absolutely no evidence of any flower formation within the green ball. The individual elements within the green ball looks like miniature plans which branched into increasingly finer stems. Across the top the green balls measure 3” in diameter. On a smaller scale such structures can be observed in wild Dianthus barbatus. The green ball is lighter in color compared to the rest of plant.

Mike

This message was edited Dec 21, 2009 11:04 PM