Propagation part IX based on my experience

Hello to everyone and welcome to those new to our little chat. Plese feel free ask anything, as we try to keep it simple and feelwe should always pass along our own knowledge. Lurkers are also welcome.

We came from here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/984995

As with all of the threads I stat I like to welcome anyone new to our little corner of Daves Garden. Please take the time to read all the past threads. Most of them have some great information in them. There are no dumb questions except for the 1 thats never asked.
Please check in if you are continuing on from part VII. I like to make sure we did not loose anyone.
I try to keep things on track and a nice calm slow paced thread that everyone can understand.
Welcome and thank you to the loyal readers on this thread. The pic is of 2 different lynwood gold forsythia.
Dave

Ok flowers 101
yes i realize I will never make a living as an artist... please forgive my crude drawing.

There are a lot of great sites on how to pollinate specific flowers. Its basically taking the pollen off the anthers and depositing it on the top of the pistil (stigma). All flowers differ slightly but the application is the same. Its a matter of locating the flower parts.
There are some specifics on what can and can't be done. sterile flowers will never produce seeds, or if the do they will also be sterile and not germinate.
Now the fun and possibly "how 2 make a fortune in plant breeding" I wish....lol
If you have notice a lot of the new hybrid plants like echinacea, corriopsis (sorry about the spelling). The breeders have done one of 2 things.
They have taken to species of the same plant Echinacea for example and used 2 species to come up with the new colors. Is there a plant you really love? do some research and if you can find a species with say a shorter stance and a flower you like take the pollen from one plant and pollinate the other with that pollen the resulting seeds will be a cross between the 2 species. It may take a full year or two to see the difference but when you do.... I promise you will be doing the happy dance.... La la la la......
The next type is the cross of same genus and species to design a new flower. Daylilies come to mind. Say you want a dwarf red stella de oro with a pronounce midrib in the pedal (mid rib is the line or vein if you will of the flower pedal). You pick the redest flower you have with the midrib you like and cross pollinate it with a dwarf variety. Now with daylilies there are diploids and tetriploids and the 2 will not cross. you need to know which one's you have. I have red where some breeders put this info on their tags to make pollinating an easier task. Also one breeder let their grandchildren do their own crossing just for fun and to help spirit the next generation of plant breeders.
Ok now for the coments and questions. Pleas elet me know what you think about this post and if I missed anything. or its not quite clear.
Dave

Does anyone know an eary way to collect heuchera seeds? Also every one of my hostas are starting to flower. I have never had that nice a showing as this years show. I am wondering how next year will turn out?
Here is a pic of spirea with floers and seed heads. I will see what I can get in the way of seeds from the spirea.

Dave put a knee high over them. You could draw the flower stems together and put on on them and try it that way.

I am thinking I should stick to breeding birds. Hmmmmm.JB

I haven't ever had any success getting the tidy tips to germinate or live past the true leaves stage. i am not sure what I do to them.

My hubby once told me he couldn't touch a christmas cactus without the blooms falling off. I didn't believe him at first, but now he is not allowed anywhere near my cacti. LOL I guess tidy tips are just one of those flowers.

Dave, my best suggestion with the hosta, is to watch them morning and night. I have never tried putting a knee high over them, but that sounds like an idea I might need to try.

I'm taking a bread from the bird house. It is so hot in there. i came in to cool off and then I will go and finish up.

Hi: I was thinking knee high but after planting some seeds from heuchera I bought I will stick to buying them. They are the size of a teeny tiny speck...hard to see.
Linda: I agree I planted some seeds this afternoon and I melted from the heat. Its time to take off the tarp and open the roof vents. I will see what happens with the tidy tips. I have a bunch that have sprouted. I do understand about specific plants not likeing everyone in a different way.
Dave

Just checking in and to let you know, it is 45 today and has been about that for the last several days. I will never b**** about heat again until it reaches over 90. The babies are crying for the warm GH. Too bad, all are in new beds. It is up to them to pull up the covers and settle in..
Lee

Brrrr. It was 90 today for us and now its suposed to rain the rest of the week. Its been a good week so far. Time to remove the shade cloth/heat retension blankie.... awe.... green house is loosing his blankie boo hoo...sniff sniff.
How long is summer in montana? how hot does it get? Kims said she is ready to chuck it all and move to montana.... I think it would be too cold for me. personally I would prefer somewhere a bit warmer in the winters and not as hot in the summers. Does such a place exsist? Maybe the carolina's
Dave

Summer sometimes lasts into late Sept, early Oct. Hard to say when it starts, this year we had snow in June. It can get to 110 but doesn't last at that temp. High ninety's pretty normal, some days more, some a little less. Cold can go to a -30 or so, but again doesn't last long. Thing to remember is that it is a different cold, not much humidity so can seem warmer than the temp. Same in summer, when we have it. no moisture so is a much drier heat. Tell Kim, she is welcome anytime, and maybe she can bring you along, just maybe!!!
Lee

Thanks Lee:
Kim was born and grew up in montana... I want to say boseman but I may be off. I do any move its going to involve land and space to put up greenhouses.... with the ability and help to do my thing full time.
I really don't know if I really want the hassel with a full time gig with a full time health issue... Oh well its all discussion at this point.
Dave

well if you want mild summers, then our neck of the woods is that place. Being from the south when we first moved here folks would just be crying about the heat and humidity...LOL both my DH and I would tell them you don't even know what humidity until you have lived in Kentucky as there is no breeze, except when a front is moving through. At least here around Cleveland and Florida, there is always a breeze which makes the heat an easy thing to live with.

But since I got heat stroke several years back I'm worry whether or not I would be able to deal with the humidity and heat from the south during the summer, then my DH reminds me about there being A/C......LOL

Janet

meadowyck,
Is that your yard? If so it is gorgeous. I wish mine looked that way. Me just starting this year they haven't all came together yet.

flowerfantasy:

Soil is the key. Yep my yard.

This is what it looked like last year in May before I started.

Janet

Janet, your yard is beautiful. What did you do to get the soil so nice? We have solid sand. Several years ago I took one place and added a dozen bags of peat moss and a dozen bags of steer manure. I planted berry bushes in there. The moles ate the bushes and the next year there was not a trace of either the peat moss or the manure. It had all washed down in the sand.

It is so hard I can't dig a hole, and yet the moles can go thru it like a mechanical mole. If you know what that is. I actually watched the sand fly and the head and feet pop up and down when one of them dug a hole and left a mound in my perennial bed.

What would you suggest? Jeanette

Jeanette:

Our home is on solid clay. So after reading a lot of info on the top of the soil layer method that is what I went for, for 2 reasons: 1) no digging or removing old sod; 2) it was so easy that I just couldn't believe it.

I moved very close the grass, then next laid newspapers about 10 - 12 sheets and then laid the weed blocker. Then I purchase 40 yards of top soil/sweet peat/leaf humus. You will have to add each year as it does seem to disappear into your ground...LOL

Seeing as how I lived in Kentucky for almost 20 years I learn a lot about sweet peat, this is horse manure. This is my #1 favorite for amending flower beds.

here is a beginning shot of the bed to the right of the front door.

Janet

on the left side of the door. Which is the second picture above.

Janet

here is the link to my adventure last year.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/849382/

and the second one is from this year.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/989675/

Janet

One thing I've learned is that I'll never til an area up again to put a bed in.

this was so easy and so much less work. I put it down and I didn't wait to start adding the dirt like a lot of the thread say to do. I don't think it hurt as there are so many worms in the bed now that it is incredible.

Janet

Dave, getting back to Flowers 101, I have some questions, would you prefer I ask them on this group or privately. I do not want to bore anyone on the list with my stupid questions, but I am a slow learner, especially about sex at the age of 80. LOL. Flower sex that it. JB

JB I sure hope you will ask your questions here as I'm just getting started in this area of plants and the more folks are willing to share their questions and answers the better for all of us newbies...

Janet

O.K. First of all, let me see if I understand the process.

You can only pollinate certain flowers. How do you know which ones?

Is this what they call hybridize when you pollinate two different flowers of the same species and come up with a new plant?
After you pollinate and the seeds are formed you must collect the seeds and plant them and pray they grow...is that how it works? You can not be sure if worked until the new plants grow?
When you see the name of a plant and an x and the name of another plant, is that what they have done to get that plant?

I told you I have questions that may sound stupid to some people, but in all my years of growing, I have only begun over the past year to propagate, and I am still learning, plus hybridizing is another story all together. I guess I should just look it up. Sorry if I sound dumb. I am. JB

I am having a block here at this time. Breeding Hybrid Parrots is unacceptable and just not done by legitimate breeders. In NJ there is a law against it. LOL so, I guess my mind is having problems with some terms.

If you want to hybridize plants. You need to take like two geraniums to pollinate, not a geranium and a petunia. Is that right. You stay within the same species of plants to pollinate? JB

JB:

I think your questions are great as I am waiting to see what those who know here answer with.

thanks again for positing your questions.

Janet

I am no expert by far but according to what I have been told and what I have read That is the way to do it and maybe get a new plant from it.

Jeanette, When I lived in Maple Valley Wa, I had the mole problem and I used human hair tucked down the holes. If you have a hairdresser close by that would save the hair for you. It really worked for me. Doesn't kill them, just scares them away to someone else's yard, hehehe!!! I have been told the same will work with dog hair. Hope this will help you a little.
Lee

Lee, I have heard that. I have a hair cut appt. tomorrow, maybe I will ask her for my hair.

Hi Everyone:
Jb: Just running off memory you are correct in your thinking. I would try any plants you like say 2 different species from the same genus. Now it is possible to be dealing with male and female plants. Holly comes to mind.
I am wondering if you can take say a weeping yaupon holly can be crossed with sky pencil holly, giving a thin weeping holly. Or how about a dwary yaupon crossed with sky pencil A shorter column of holly.
Now the question of a plant name X plant name..... is the cross hybridizing 2 species of the same genius. I am not sure how deep it goes whith in a family. The family being what all genus belong to.

Here are some pics I managed to get today

and another one

Lee how are your sps doing? Did they get going? I have 2 that I bought in 4 inch pots that are ok but too expensive to get many. Maybe I will go in with you on flats next year. How does that sound?

Jeanette

Me too

Sounds great to me, I certainly have more than I needed after they replaced them. Tho, you guys will have to remind me, this 66 year old mind ain't what it used to be. And also they need lead time for orders. I have a few other plugs I am interested in so it may make a pretty good order, and I do trust them. I would love to have some plants no one else in town would have, so will have to scour their website plant by plant. Dave, do you think that the holly's you are growing would make it thru the winter here? I love the thought of anything weeping, or drooping or whatever the sadder they look, the better I like them. Later
Lee

Hi Lee:
Unfortunately the yaupon holly is suposed to only go into zone 7 acording to the plant guide will only survive to zone 7... which is very humorus as my parents have a real nice one in our zone 6b neighborhoods. I think we have a micro-climate here in tulsa. I will do some research to find some suggestions.
What kind of time frame are we looking at for nc farms? I have been tossing around the idea of getting some perrienial plugs.
SISYRINCHIUM 'Lucerne' Blue eyed grass
Stokes aster
veronica

Its tough to find things for your wonderful zone 3b... any specifics you are looking for at ncfarms? Any way we can get a narrowed down want list?
Dave

Hi Everyone:
Lee - I found just the ticket. Gailardia 'frenzy'
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/172163/

I am still locking down the availability on it but I know I want 10 maybe more. Do we need to do a co-op or just a quick fast and loose group? I don't want to do anything wrong but I also need to be quick so by the time we get any interest they will be already shipped out of my hands.
Lee do you want to run the ncfarms one??? I know I would like some charm begonia, pewter moon heuchera and verbena, stormy weather coleus & lotus vine. The trick is they are form my enjoyment not resale. I still have yet to do one hanging basket or free standing planter . and where does all the time go? Please let me know who's doing what
Dave
Dave

Hi Dave!
I would def be interested in one!
bre

Hi Bre: I will have to get you the price once they are in hand to make sure I did get them as well as breaking down all the extra costs. I know shipping from me to you will be 5.65 flat rate 4.95 plus .70 delivery conformation. beyond that I would be guessing at costs.
Dave

HI Everyone, I went MIA again. Hubby surprised us with a trip to ST. Augustine this week. It was so hot!!! We had a great time though. It feels good to get back.

JBerger, you ask some really good questions. They do not sound stupid or boring in any way to me, but then I am fascinated by this stuff. LOL
When you cross-pollinate a plant, you are creating a hybrid of the two plants. ( ie. hybridizing and I agree with you about hybridizing parrots, I have a name for people who do that, but I wouldn't be able to type it here. LOL).

My understanding is that you have to cross 2 of the same species of plants. Morning glory x morning glory, daylily x daylily etc. You use the pollen from 1 plant and transfer it to the stigma of another. What I do is to take an anther from say daring deception daylily and rub the pollen on the stigma of joylene Nicole daylily.
Then Joylene Nicole becomes the pod parent and Daring deception becomes the pollen parent. In effect joylene Nicole will be the mama and DD, the dad.
In this case on your tag to identify them, the mama is listed first.
It takes 40-60 days for the daylilies seeds to mature and I am not sure how much time for the morning glory. When the daylily seeds are mature, you can harvest them and let them dry or you can plant them immediately. Each seedling will be different from the parent plants, but have a lot of the same characteristics. (Ex. my teenager and I appear that we could have been cloned, but he looks nothing like his father. LOL {true story LOL}) It is the same with daylily parents. If you have 12 or 15 seedlings, they may look similar but no two will look exactly like the others. It takes daylilies about 2 years to bloom from seed, so instant gratification isn't a real possibility. However for me, the wait is worth it.
I don't know if it takes that long for other perennials, but I know that if I harvest/plant seeds this year, they won't bloom until next summer.

The plants like hollies that require a male and female I am not sure about. I know that for cross pollination to be successful, you must use the pollen from the males and the stigmas from the female. Sago palms are another example although they show you which sex they are when it is ready to pollinate the others. I have pictures of both, but I will have to find them.

Dave, you'd be welcomed here in the carolinas anytime, but the summers do get brutal and even though our winters are thankfully very short, the salt air is sometimes devilish. However, I certainly wouldn't want to spend August in St. Augustine. It was way too hot already.

JBerger, I hope I was able to help clear a little confusion with my response. If you want to send me a dmail, I will gladly share anything I know.

I will also post here instead so everyone can read it, (but please bear in mind, I am still learning too.)
Hope everyone has a wonderful day. Linda

Great post Linda. Thank you for the additional info. I wish I had the area to work with Daylilies for hybridizing. Maybe next year. I have a lot of crosses that are flowering but my labeling system washed away.... Nex years seedlings will be better. Here is a pic of my seedlings coming up. Mostly perrienials, my plant is to grow the seedlings in cells then split them up and get 3 seedlings per cell either 3.5"or the 50 cell trays.

Great information Linda. Thank you so much. Now I can do some research about my tropicals, i. e. gardenias, antherium, etc. I am really interested in this but I do not have as much time as you younger people so I may have to stay at cuttings instead of seeds. JB

This is another rainy day. I just finished cleaning up the rest of the greenhouse and I threw out every Wondering Jew plant I had and all the cuttings , they all had mealy bug again and that is the last straw. Nothing gets rid of them except throwing the plants out, I swear. They hide under the lip of the pots too. Well, I am pretty sure that all are gone now and if they come back I do not know what I will do. The State Inspector says they just arrive and you need to just keep spraying. Great Guns, I have used plain alcohol and that did not kill them on those wondering jews, so I gave up. I hate to throw out beautiful growing plants but I can not take a chance on them harboring these little critters and my tropicals getting infested. I can't sell plants that I am not completely happy with myself.
Hope everyone is well and staying dry. Ugh, more thunder, where the heck is this coming from? JB
Dave, my new hosta looks great.