Morning Glories 2009 #01

I'm enjoying your blooms too!

I agree with Helena, nice flower picture set, Cathy!

Joseph

Pretty blooms Kathy

lovely blooms Kathy... really nice pale blue from Dany there

Cathy - The ones having the Lavender are favorites of mine

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6472580
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6472729

Nice...(!)


Ron

Thanks for the compliments! These plants have been such a fun new adventure (addiction). I hope that I get some seeds. I've been a bit paranoid to try hand pollinating, but I think I might try it.

This is the darkest flower yet from Purple Flaked.

A couple of pictures from last week's blooms:

A little closer, the camera didn't really catch the beautiful color of this one. I'm wondering if this could be Hamaminga? I had one pot tagged as Hamaminga, but with the mixed up tags, who knows?

Minibar Rose from Mountain Meadows Seeds. I think this one is so cute!

These two pots are seeds from Mountain Meadows Seeds- the packet is called Japanese Morning Glory vines, Large Flowering Mix- Ipomoea nil syn. imperialis. There were at least 4 seedlings that came up nearly albino and later died. :-(
The surviving ones are cool though!

The same two pots, the next day.

This was my favorite bloom of the week.

Such a pretty sight!

Last one, another teeny tiny bloom. My fingers are crossed for at least a few seeds from this petite beauty.

Cathy

You have some quite interesting JMGs growing, Cathy, including the last one which is Q751 (so called Ten-Ten JMG).

Joseph

Very nice, I agree with Joseph!

Helena

Me, too! Lovely collection, Cathy! Who did you get the Ten Ten from?

I agree with you concerning YOUR favorite one of the week - it is a beaut! I would love a couple seeds from that one should the vine produce enough seeds to share/trade. :-)

Thanks for the ID Joseph!

Thanks Helena! I've been enjoying your pictures too.

Becky, those seeds came from you, and the tag that I have on it says Kikyo Ten Ten. I'm not sure if that means it is a cross between Kikyo and Ten Ten or if that is the proper name??? I would be thrilled to share some seeds of that neat purple one (with the crepe paper look to it) with you. I tagged it yesterday with a wrap around tag, since the darn blue jays are at it again- stealing my tags for their nests! Here's what I had to do to my seed tray, after they pulled three tags, but only stole one. Buggers! Extra window screen sure comes in handy.

I notice that quite a few of the past blooms seem to be developing seed pods, I am so excited and can't wait to share them!

This nice bloom here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6492385
is a red speckled kikyo...ten-ten is a made up ebay name and likely to snowball into confusion if continued to be used...just my thoughts for the record...

I only referred to ten-ten because everyone seems to know it...I agree with you, Ron, that's why I like referring to the Kyushu University Q number for it.

Ten Ten will keep it's name as far as I'm concerned.. it's no worse than what others name the morning glories, why can only certain people give them names? I don't see anything wrong with the name, most names are made up anyway. At least we know it by that name. It doesn't bother me.


Oh: PS. Just my thoughts for the record.

This message was edited May 2, 2009 9:29 AM

Is "kikyo" a descriptive term for the speckling?

The thing about Scarlet Ohara, Heavenly Blue, Flying Saucers, Pearly Gates, etc.. all have names that have nothing to do with Morning Glory descriptions, but they signify a way for us to quickly distinguish each one.

We can't call all people Humans, Humans that are long, humans that are short, Humans with German heritage, etc.. that is why we all have names, to recognize whom we are talking about or what. That is the reason that I think it is important to give these Morning glories names. These are just examples and I'm not an expert and I don't pretend to be, only want to understand why it bothers you so much that each one is given a name. Growers that are serious about what they are growing, will make an effort to learn each species, I agree only on the fact that they need to have their species in front of the name. That eliminates all confusion for the beginner.

I. tricolor, Pearly Gates
I. nil Scarlet Ohara (SOH)
I. purpurea Kniola blacks
I. purpurea President Tyler

those are recognized names, and soon other names will be recognized too, there isn't much anyone can do to stop progress.

etc.

I'm not trying to be impossible or start an argument, just stating my feelings. There are so many sales going on that don't even tell you what they are selling. They could at least say I. nil, I. purpurea, etc.. but they don't.. maybe they don't know what they have themselves.

Cathy - I believe kikyo describes the shape and possibly the size of the flower. I, too, know it easily by the name of Ten Ten. I wondered if it might have been me who shared those seeds with you. I am glad the blooms came true to the parent vine. :-) It has always been more of a petite vine and bloom compared to most I. nils. It's a great one to grow indoors in a window sill.

Antoinette - The name game does get confusing. Since there is no society for MGs to closely monitor the different cultivars, I suppose just about anyone can "name" a morning glory if it doesn't already have a commercial or given name? And even then, those commercial names are a mess. I name my crosses. Those names probably don't mean anything really, but it does help to keep the cultivars straight in my mind for trades and sharing. I agree ... half the time I get seeds, I haven't a clue what species of morning glory I might actually be getting. I can't tell you how many commercial packs I've gotten that didn't even produce blooms like what they pictured on the packet. Some weren't even the same species of MG. Ha! But I do identify many by certain characteristics. It's much more specific than saying small blue bloom, or nose shaped leaf, or large speckled blooms, etc. ...

Cathy - I use chicken wire to protect my seedlings from birds and squirrels too. Though, sometimes I accidentally kill a plant by breaking a stem (as seen in the lower left hand corner cup). I mark my cups with permanent marker to distinquish which plant is which.

Well, I know what you mean about the species, but, once we establish the species, we need to identify them. Just as in the Brugmansia and other crosses, if they didn't have a registered name, we wouldn't be buying any of them.

I won't buy from someone that has on I. nils on their packets, I already have a million I. nil seeds. but, if they have a name attached to it, well, that is a different story. Whether the name is a legitimate name or not, at least I know what I am getting. While it's true of the newer merchants out there, they will sell anything to anyone, they don't know what they have nor do they care, they just sell MGs and that's it. So, if at least even they had a name, maybe then we could get what we want. Then we have the merchants that use any name on the seeds and they are not even the species that they say. So, I completely understand, but what I don't understand is what difference does it make if we do have a name that is widely recognized and it is obivious that it is a true cultivar, it really shouldn't bother anyone. I love knowing that I know extactly what Ten Ten means. Who's going to tell Sakata and the other Japanese companies that they can't name their I. nil seeds? They will tell us to jump off the highest bridge..lol, Dawn of Sea, Sea of whatever, you see what I mean? I love knowing that I am not buying the same ole seeds, especially when you have a reputable seller, it is great, and now we have a lot of new people doing serious crosses, they should be commended for even trying and if they get something worthwhile, by golly, they have a right to name it.

I whole-heartedly agree, A! The credit should go to those who did the work with the crosses and continue to hand-pollinate them to keep the new cultivars true. But I mainly name mine to know which vine I am referring to. Naming them using a letter and numbers just confuses me. I, personally, like a name I can relate to. One that sticks in my mind. But ... that is just my preference and not a scientific one ...

I use names to ID them with either what they obviously are or what source they came from. When a vine is of mixed parentage originating from many other crosses. Or if it is a mutant then your description is what you see but you know other looks are possible because of the potential of genes recombining in different orders in the seeds. The variable nature of seeds and possibilities of mutations is always considered.

A purple kikyo can carry genetic potential to throw pink kikyos and possible different shades like lavender or very light pink. It couldn`t be offered as "purple kikyo" since the possibility is there to throw pink offspring. To me this is normal and natural and doesn`t make the plants inferior at all. This very thing is why the Japanese sell some of the seeds as mixes. It is to avoid making people upset when they expect all purple and out comes ...pink! Well, it is just natural and without some work that is what you get. :)

The mutant systems have a lot of different manifestations of genes all in one line of plant. It is like designer plants. You can work with the plants to get different interesting looks you want to see using a line of plants having the desired genes. So, nothing is really cut and dry here. The name is given to the entire line of plants...youjiro blue,youjiro pink etc.

I guess you could offer a purple flowered vine with potentail to throw pinks as it is "predominantly purple with possible pink flowers showing up" if you knew that first hand. After you grow a plant for a while you get to know it very well and can tell others more about what you are sharing.

The good news is a pink flower or a chocolate flower to name only two has recessive genes. If you isolate those they will breed true. The fun ones are the flowers that need to be segregated out to eliminate hidden recessives and stabilize the dominant genes so they are paired up so that each seed has a pair.

Lets say you have a white spoked flower you want to isolate for true seeds. You can`t tell by looking if the plant is homozygous or heterozygous..or if it paired up with two dominant genes or has just one.

Lets say it has only one gene:

S - x S -

possible combinations in the grow out of the resulting seeds:

SS white spoked (has two genes and that flower will be a 100% producer of spoked plants.)

S - white spoked but has only one gene

S - white spoked but has only one gene

- - oops, a solid flower.Cull that out if one is wanting spoked flowers.

Edited to add example.





This message was edited May 2, 2009 1:53 PM

svplantingfool - Speckling is a basic type of flower color pattern as described on the authoritative website of Dr.Yoneda as seen here
http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/Asagao/Yoneda_DB/E/species/flower_pattern.html

Patten #4 is the speckled which is somewhat the opposite of pattern # 9

A Speckled pattern is basically a light basal color with darker speckles on top of it , while a blizzard pattern is a basically a dark basal color with lighter markings on it...

Pattern #1 and #2 are both variations of the Flecked pattern although # 2 is unofficially referred to as a 'sectioned' pattern...

The term kikyo is the Romaji term for a plant in the Platycodon genus which has pentagonal shaped flowers and the japanese asagao breeders usually refer to this pentagonal shape as a kikyo shape.

To Whomever it may Concern :

When I am presented with a flower to ID I proceed from what is known and accepted by Science and any marketing or pet names take a far (!) second or third place...often pet names and even many cultivar names have no objective basis in reality...

The process that Science has adopted is to accept the 1st correct term applied and to disregard subsequent terms as outdated synonyms or duplications as this process protects against chaotic inducing duplication...and I do try to do my best to apply this to any cultivar or other identifying names...

Historical names are given precedence in Science if deemed to be accurate...and I accept and am guided by this basic organizational tenet.

So,1st I try to identify as per Science taxonomically,then by the standards and descriptions that Kyushu and Yoneda have established and then by the history of the cultivar name and description as this is the accepted professional order of priority.

I very frequently refer to the authoritative website of Dr.Yoshiaki Yoneda as a guideline to help keep us on a solid foundation as per the Science involved with Morning Glories , especially in reference to the types traditionally grown in japan known there by the Romaji term of asagao.

I also refer to Kyushu University which is devoted to studying the genetics of Morning Glories most particularly Ipomoea nil and Ipomoea purpurea.

Kyushu has genetically documented many reddish speckled kikyo shaped strains and each of these has a specific genetic profile as distinguished from other reddish speckled kikyo shaped strains...

Here it is in a nutshell...if someone / anyone shows me a photo of what may be called ten-ten or any other reddish speckled kikyo and asks me what it is...I will mentally immediately remove / disregard whatever name has been applied to it by every person who attaches their own individualistic pet name and analyze it in reference to the guidelines provided by Dr.Yoneda and Kyushu which will enable me to determine e.g., that it is a reddish speckled kikyo...

I may sometimes reference other individuals,posts, sites, etc., and all of these may be referenced based upon my evaluation of the depth / degree of knowledge exhibited and whether that knowledge is very specific in nature and / or very broad...the long term track record of accuracy and ultimate value of recommendations as may be offered by any other individual is also a serious consideration in determining long term credibility factor and whether I will therefore choose to cite any other references...

The cultivar or other pet-name may or may not ultimately be accepted or rejected by me , but it is last in line of priority as per determining what the plant in question is...names which do not have a substantial historical record or are otherwise deemed to be problematic by me , will be rejected by me...others are free to follow my recommendation or not based upon their own method of determining what contributes to long term order and separating sense from nonsense...

I most definitely prefer references to sources which have demonstrated both short and long term accuracy and strongly disregard sources that have demonstrated both short and long term lack of serious insight / credible rationale...
examples of incredibility in the extreme would include :
any 'source' that exhibits serious lack of objectivity , prematurely 'jumps the gun' in a reactionary display on any issue , or otherwise exhibits any type of quasi-psychotic characteristics based upon an inability to initially (or subsequently) grasp / understand any subject clearly enough , would not be considered as being in enough control of their senses and / or sufficiently rational enough for me to consider in any way as a constructive reference...
so, if any source fits the description of incredible, that source is disregarded as a credible source / witness..
but everyone is certainly free to choose who or what they reference...although remember the old philosophical health adages "We are Known by the company that We Keep"..."Like breeds Like"...Whom the gods would destroy,they first make mad"..."As ye think , So shall ye Be" , "Sleep with the dogs and you catch the Fleas"... etc,.."

I have linked to other threads where I have very,very clearly stated that anyone reading my posts is certainly free to completely disregard whatever I have to say as that is most certainly their choice and to skip over my posts unless you have found my postings to be of substantial merit...that includes any recommendations that I make...
History proves that fascists and megalomaniacs do not repeatedly reference this type freedom of choice option...

The term ten-ten was used to market something on ebay and the implication is / was that this was an accepted name as used in japan to refer to a reddish speckled kikyo...

There is no reddish speckled kikyo referred to in japan as ten-ten...ten-ten is being used to ostensibly describe a particular type of reddish speckled kikyo when (based upon my research via my japanese contacts) there is no ten-ten in japan...there is an old much sought after brown cultivar documented as tan-tan and it may be that there was some confusion and / or could lead to confusion...

What a reddish speckled kikyo is can be ascertained with objective clarity, but what is a ten-ten ...is it the same as some particular strain as documented by Kyushu (?)...if so which one (?)...it is likely that what is being called ten-ten is a non-specific mutt that cannot be reliably distinguished from other specific reddish kikyo strains...

The marketing name of ten-ten is a concocted non-specific term that is being misapplied as referring to something that has an objective specific description as designated by the authoritative sites that we commonly reference here to help guide us in maintaining a solid footing to what we like to enjoy...

The large distributors in japan like Sakata and Takii sometimes use the same names for cultivars that they offer and often use their own preferential marketing names...this is confusing when trying to figure out what it is that we get...So, which name should be correctly applied (?)...

If you ask Sakata , they would tell you that (of course ) the Sakata name should be used and Takii would tell you that the Takii name be used ...

so we wind up with duplicate names after the task (!) of doing our best to sort out whether the different names actually produce the same types or not...if not for marketing tactics there would be less duplication of names...so , it is imperative that we take a very close look at and report on (from the grass roots level) what is actually produced from the many different marketing names...gardeners welcome this process , but merchandisers understandably dread it...

Gardeners not interested in marketing tend to be very comfortable with staying close to the accepted science and the marketers tend to much prefer to attach marketing names to make their product more appealing and give the illusion that what they are offering is a 'named' type...
there are plenty of merchants that attach names to their wares and many of these merchants cannot determine the difference between a purpurea, a nil or a tricolor...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/899399/

they are merchants who are savvy at marketing , but actually know very little about Morning Glories...they just want to attach names to aid their sales appeal...


The MG Forum better serves the community of gardeners when it serves to be more of a consumer or non-marketing grower advocate and not a support group for perpetuating fuzzy merchandising names...but since many gardeners do buy MG's under different merchandising names...it has been a long term standard function of the MG Forum group to keep track of what actually grows from the plethora of merchandising names to determine what it is that we have...extremely relevant and I can certainly see why most gardeners are interested to pursue analysis and why some merchandisers would be adverse to this type of down to earth evaluation...

My interest is in part trying to achieve and maintain order and lack of unnecessary duplication and to that end I believe it is better to refrain from using ten-ten...or otherwise re-enforcing the usage of the MG Forum as an indirect marketing arena most especially when the appellations are likely to tend towards chaos...

There is an entry in the PlantFiles for any red speckled here
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/184385/
and this was created for anyone to add any red speckled that they want to...any more very specific particulars can be added to the photo description as has been done by Onalee...and I must say that I respect Onalee for recognizing the need for a generalized entry as per this particular type and for adding her particulars to the exact photo description as an option....(Big Thanks to / and Hail Onalee !)

The difficulty is that when everyone wants to put their individual stamp on the plants...this has historically been and continues to be the single largest cause of mass confusion all over the entire world in the professional and amateur sector...

It is important not to mix issues...attaching a pet name to your plants is your personal choice , but the pet name of any cross is not necessarily related to what the plant is as cross referenced to the authoritative databases provided by the professional sites that we use to determine what it is that we have...

Twenty seven people can each call their plants by 27 different names and each of those 27 people may want to believe that they have a 'unique' type , but as referenced by the basic guidelines that may not be the case...

I do sometimes 'go along with' a pet name (to a certain and definitely limited extent) if in my experience and judgment it will not be problematic...e.g., Emma (and some others) wanted to describe a blizzard as having speckles and I advised against it because it was likely to cause problems regarding the basic color pattern of speckled...she realized the potential for creating and perpetuating problems and promptly removed the description...

I am fully aware the in Romaji ten and ten-ten means dot...what I am also aware of is that there is a genetic type listed on the Yoneda site as being a dotted , but since there is no photographic reference as of yet , I saw the potential for problems and that is just one of the reasons I am not in favor of the term ten or ten-ten to describe a speckled flower...

Here is a listing of other words in Romaji related to dots

chobo:dot
dotto:dot
itten:dot
hasen:dotted line
kuroboshi:black dot
kuromaru:black dot
mizutama:polkadot
mizutamamoyou:polka dots
porukadotto:polka dot
tenbyou:dotting
tensen:dotted line
tenzai:dotted with

Despite merchandising agendas and those who are locked into viewing my recommendations as motivated by megalomania or some other form of malice (with the resultant inordinate attacks upon my character and intent ) , I am hopeful that my actual and continued contributions will in hindsight ultimately indicate and vindicate quite to the contrary...

The Forum details and the history books of the future will outlive us all...they'll see who provided the right advice in the long run...despite any 'catcalls' to the contrary...

I have seen that there are definite problems regarding what is a kikyo and what is a speckled and in my opinion I fervently believe that we need to be very careful and clear about these types...and the combination of kikyo and speckled doubles the potential problems...
there are variations of kikyos and variations of speckled that are not addressed in photographic detail on either Dr.Yonedas or Kyushu University websites...therefore less likely to be easily apprehended by neophytes...

I will not enter into further debate on this thread or on the issue of ten-ten...and I will not advocate or use the term ten-ten...

You are free to call your plants and seeds whatever you want to...

When problems arise as to what is a 'ten-ten' and or what is not I will most definitely refer people to the persons on this thread who insist on using that misleading term and let those people who believe that they definitely know what a ten-ten is do all of the explaining and sorting out because I will not...

You insist on using a particular pet name then you untangle all the problems that result from it..


TTY,...


Ron


P.S. - Threads where I previously addressed the subject of problems on the Forums

newbies (inadvertently ) and (often undeclared / denied , but very definite) merchandising agendas
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=2670705
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5166380



This message was edited May 5, 2009 3:31 AM

For Newbies interested in exploring and applying Ron's post on MG colors and patterns, here are a couple of links from Kyushu University and Dr. Yoneda's website -

Kyushu U - http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en

Dr. Yoneda - http://taxa.soken.ac.jp/Asagao/E/species/flower_pattern.html

So many wonderfully strange MGs have appeared in my garden that were different from the label under which they came to me, that I hope to make better use of the above classifications of MG color and pattern this coming summer. For me, as I continue trying to learn about what I see among the MGs in my garden and in this forum, using a common system of naming would be very helpful. It isn't the names themselves that matter to me, so much as what they *mean* and thus have to teach.

Edited to say - oops - Ron did give the link to Dr. Yoneda's color and pattern page. Using it in tandem with the Kyushu U page would be interesting, though. Hope y'all check out Kyushu, too.


This message was edited May 3, 2009 5:00 AM

Becky, thanks for the photo of your critter proofed potting area! Last fall, after a big windstorm, I discovered over 50 of my plants tags that had fallen from the nest the blue jays had built in the mango tree. I had a good laugh.

Ron, thanks for the link to the flower pattern page, I have it bookmarked. I am just learning about JMGs, it really is fascinating.

bluespiral, thanks also for the links, I could get lost for days in the Kyushu U website within their Image Catalog!

Becky, this morning's blooms from the "crepe-paper" purple that I just adore. It misted here this morning, and the flower got a little smooshed from the heavy water drops falling from the oak tree. :-(

This one is so delicate!

Ron, or, to whom it may concern:

Then am I to believe that you also apply this to all MGs, and what will happen when you, yourself, ID flowers such as SOH and NOT SOH, you refer to these as such, you give out seeds for these under this name. You even want them to be grown out and perpetuate the name even further. So, you confuse me too, because you say one thing and do another.

My question is and has been, why do you apply rules? only when you think they should be applied. You have even suggested names to people "Lady Laura" and Lavender Chiffon, don't you think that you perpetuate the same kind of confusion, you even mentioned to me that one morning glory would be named after you?

Behind the scenes you do a lot of mixing up yourself. How are you going to make the rest of the world do what you want them to do? Or is this the only place that has to follow what you believe?

In other words Ron, just as countries have different beliefs, so do people and if you go tell this story in the breeding of Brugmansia and other breeders of other flowers, cannas, etc.. I believe you will not win.

I only agree on one thing. That the species should stay the same, but within that species, I also believe they have to be Identified by an additional name. You may not like it, but it is done all the time. I may not like it, but it will be done anyway. And, SOH, Pearly Gates, Wedding Bells, all those? How do you plan to take those names away? Those will be around after we are all gone. The best we can do is keep the species name in front of each cultivar. It doesn't make sense that you would rather see a number attached, I'd much rather see a name.

Again, Ron, please don't take this wrong, but, I feel this whole thing does not stem from trying to keep things straight.. because you already know the seeds backwards and forwards, so this knowledge is already embedded in you.

After you read regarding the crossing of species and how they are registered, then, I will pay attention to you.. this is done with passionvines, brugmansia and every other plant in the universe, and they don't want to keep it limited to only species names, each one is so diverse, just as diverse as the morning glories are getting. Each one has a name attached to Identifiy it.. why do suppose that they don't get confused?

A.

P.S.

This is a wonderful topic and I think we can all learn from it. I hope it continues to try to understand the nature of Identifying plants. Whether by number as the university does or names, and why it should matter so much to everyone.

A.

When I first got hooked on MGs, I was so confused. Over the past two years some confusion has cleared up (maybe?), but I am still at a loss concerning names of MGs. Due to all the crossing/hybrids coming into existence currently ... the possibilities are mind boggling. I like names attached because I like to know what I am asking for in trades or the other way around. And sometimes ... I just like to SAY the names! LOL!

Now this is really going get me thumped on the head, but ...

I wish everyone had the time to make a garden blog on their DG account with names (whatever name you are using for your MG vines) and pictures. When I ask someone for seeds, I won't remember 2 months later. If the trader doesn't remember either ... well ... I usually miss out on a vine I'd love to grow. I also get seeds with names and no DG file. Probably because it was named by the trader. So I have this wonderful baggie of seeds, a name, but no clue whatsoever of what the blooms/vines might look like.

I noticed that the DG PlantFile goes by common names as well. Not letters and numbers.

There is apparently a gross misunderstanding of what I thought that I clearly stated...

I would ordinarilly be willing to clarify any mis-understanding but gross personal attacks upon my person are not something that should be substituted in lieu of a request for additional clarification...

I will instead prefer that the following statement made above and copied here

"Behind the scenes you do a lot of mixing up yourself. How are you going to make the rest of the world do what you want them to do? Or is this the only place that has to follow what you believe?

In other words Ron, just as countries have different beliefs, so do people and if you go tell this story in the breeding of Brugmansia and other breeders of other flowers, cannas, etc.. I believe you will not win."

Should remain as a testament to the type of personal attacks that should never be added to , or launched in place of a decent request for clarification...this type of personal attack is often used as a ploy to get a thread removed when someone cannot offer a civil minded argument for or against something...

I hope you win whatever it is that you want to win because apparently you are rather insistent upon framing it within that context...

If the grossly insulting personal remarks that I cited are are removed and the remainder of the questions and statements are left in place, I will consider a civil reply to a civilly worded request for clarification...

Ron, they are not attacks, it is based on conversations you and I have had on the phone. I am very hard headed and don't understand. I feel that every time someone does not agree with you, you take it very personal and as a personal attack. So be it.

Even Dr. Yoneda makes mistakes, he and everyone in Japan are also human. He states that the morning glories originated in China NOT.... you know they originated in South America.. But it takes an awful big person to admit to their mistakes.

As soon as the subject gets sensitive or too personal, you back off.. which is fine. But, a lot is left to the imagination when you don't address issues. When you understand where a person is coming from, it is almost always personal beliefs that make us who we are and why we do the things we do. I am sorry you take it the way you do.. but, you still did not address any of the questions put to you. Makes me wonder why.

Svplantingfool, this is a great photo~!! Lovely color!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6492383

Darren