Fixing the co-op forum III continuing the discussion

Right, they wouldn`t be as fun without the thread capabilities. I hope something good works out. I`ll be going hunting for good deals next Spring. :)

I have been watching as well, but haven't really had anything new to say...if you autocalc your SS though, you can track inventory-that is how I do it to make sure we don't go over....

Critter, Did Admin say that in moving the co-ops over to the Marketplace, they would still be limited to paying subscribers? I noticed on the non-subscriber version of the Communities page, the Co-op choice is not even listed. Other forums that non- paying members don't have access to are still shown on the page, but with the asterisk to indicate that those forums are for paying members only.

Admin hasn't really commented on moving them to Marketplace or to the Classifieds in terms of access, etc., as far as I know. I think limiting participation to subscribers (like current co-ops) is a reason to go with a format similar to Classifieds rather than merging co-ops into the Marketplace... seems like we discussed this on the "alternatives" thread.

The co-op forum is not only inaccessible to but is actually invisible to nonsubscribing members... the forum name doesn't even show up on the page.

Would co-ops have to physically be moved - to change the status ?- or could we just make them a commercial area - available for subscribers only - I would prefer not opening this option up to free members - I feel better (safer) dealing with a subscriber versus a member - on whom Daves does not have any verified information

I think it would be best to "move" them to a new location, just to drive home their new status, if "co-ops" or "group buys" becomes a commercial area.

I don't think Classified ads are visible to nonsubscribing members either, so in theory they could just move to that forum (already exempt from the nonpromotion clause of the AUP).

In practice, I'd like to see a separate forum on equal footing with Classifieds if we go that route... the current co-op forum gets pretty busy, and I think other individual ads would just get lost in the traffic... plus, there are additional capabilities that we've asked Dave to consider for such a forum, such as "accept" buttons for the disclaimer/participation statement(s) and the ability to post threads rather than stand-alone posts.

Critter, On the Gardening Forums Page, where all of the forums are listed, Classifieds does not have an asterisk, which means they are open to non-subscribers.

I share the same concerns as Kittylover. If the co-ops have to be open to non-subcribers, I'm afraid that hosts will get stuck with a lot of non-paying orders. I realize that the hosts would not have to order plants that aren't paid for, but in a co-op like the last Iris one, people would be reserving plants of which there are a limited quantity.

When it became apparant that they would not be paid for, then hosts would have to offer them to the other members again and possibly again.

In co-ops where quantity determines price, cancellations and non-payers would be quite an issue. I don't know whether administration thought all of this through before deciding to try to move co-ops to classifieds.

Um, I don't think admin "decided" anything about the co-ops, yet... I know the note at the top of the forum when it was closed mentioned Classifieds and the Marketplace, but that didn't really seem like a suggestion for continuing co-ops there, rather just a suggestion for other places we could go shopping.

I'm not sure why I thought Classifieds was a closed forum... if it's not, that's all the more reason why it would be good to have a separate forum for co-ops and group purchases rather than trying to merge them into the Classifieds.

Critter, I completely agree with your ideas. Suppose that you are a small vendor with a few choice plants to sell at $8 each and you are willing to guaranty your plants. Would you want your ad to be sandwiched between 2 co-op ads offering similar plants @ $3 each?

Been reading along, but like others have more or less run out of ideas and justing waitign til Dave has time to formulate his own thoughts and ideas from all the suggestions.

Ya definately don't want non subscribers in the coops for all the reasons Storm posted.

In the classified with them being open to non subscribers. You get folks who pay and wolks who order and who don't. Ya send em a couple of dmails spaced out and if ya dont hear back from them, ya just ignore them and go on.

Hosts have enough to deal with they don't need another headache into their mix.

Dave I sure busy with the calender and all that voting and stuff and sure he hs many plans to spend the upcoming holiday with his family and friends. Then we racing into a nother holiday, so I really don't expect Dave to have time to sit down and breath and take a look at how he wants to proceed and what is doable for him and the site until aroudn the first of the year.

Any change even one tiny one is a major procedure for him and he has to look at it inside and out and from all angles as to how it would affect folks.

Figure til he gets time to tackle the issues all we can really hope is that folks wil be on best behave and remember their Miss Manners and those few that don't, that experienced memebers will send little reminders Like hey do you really want to be the cause of the coops closing for good?

Dave has lots of good ideas for improvements for the coops, marketplace and the classified , hopefully as he works through them all he will find the ones that will best fit him and make him smile insted of cringing with bunches of complaining dmails.

Well said, Starlight! I agree, this is a complex thing, and we shouldn't expect quick decisions from HQ... it all needs to be thought through thoroughly in order to end up with a solution that will really work.

Everybody has done a great job of generating a bunch of ideas, and I'm sure we'll get a lot of good discussion going again when we start fine-tuning one or more options. :-)

Jill, it probably would be a good idea to check out the old rules for the coops and edit them to become stickies at the top of the coop forum. One for hosts and one for participants. That may start us in the right direction without too much work for admin.

I was going to suggest that we set up a DG account for my cat Chloe. All the complaints can be sent to her - she is a cat and only cares about her own complaints. Just kidding.

I wonder if Dave can create a "contact us" account that several people can have access to. Questions and the occasional complaint can go there. If the question is cut and dried - one of several people can just answer it. If it requires a decision - maybe a conversation takes place to find the answer.

Just thinking....

I`m sure Chloe could teach us some things.

My cat has this way of getting my attention. She crawls under the covers and gets a hold of my big toe between her teeth. If I do nothing she bites just a little bit. If I still do nothing she bites harder and if I roll over and yawn she attempts to draw blood. If I say "hey there kitty kitty" in my softest voice she will turn loose, begin purring and go back to sleep. This was a huge obstacle I crossed in our bond as friends to figure this out. It works every time.

The point of this story is sometimes people just need someone to listen when they have a grievance and a soft answer turns away wrath. :)

I am still confused on what constitutes a co-op vs. discount sale to DG members. I see some co-ops where a host does everything and ones where a host announces the co-op but the vendor does everything including taking direct payment and shipping individual orders to members. I have thought of perhaps hosting one this year but I'm unclear on the exact requirements.

At least for now you can do co-ops either way--it's up to you and the vendor to work out what works best for your particular co-op. Some vendors are able and willing to ship individual orders to people and it'll make your life easier if you can set things up that way, but some vendors either won't have the capability to do individual orders like that, or it may make so much work for them that they can't give you a very good discount, so in those cases you'd have to place one big order and then re-ship everything to the participants.

I haven't read every posting on this difficult discussion, but I wanted to put my two cents in on moving the co-ops to the Classified section, or some sort of classified section.

Just today I looked at 2 new interest co-ops, both with outside vendors(well known, large companies) that have been used before on co-ops.
With each one, almost immediately someone chimed in and suggested a member vendor (the same one each time).
This leaves sort of a bad taste in my mouth... are they getting kickbacks or something?

If someone want to run a co-op from the fanciest, most overpriced seller out there, they should be allowed to try and raise interest for it.

If you want to run a co-op with your vendor friend, start your own own!

Unfortunately, you can't control what goes on privately between the host and vendor. I personally don't like the fact that some vendors get around paying fees and advertising costs by using the coop forum as a "front" for their merchandise. It's definitely not fair to smaller sellers that don't grow enough to offer in large amounts. You will find the general opinion of members is that they don't care how they get the plants as long as they get them cheaper.

And, just to post another dissenting opinion, in today's economy, I'd much rather support a small independent grower over a big corporation any day, so I don't mind seeing that option thrown out there as it often is.
While I can certainly understand and respect that concern, if you are wanting to go with a particular vendor on a co-op, perhaps that would be one you could organize?
I personally, will choose to not participate in co-ops where I don't like the choice of vendor, and I don't feel it's my place to try to dictate where someone else chooses.

Perhaps any suggestions of "have you considered checking with thus-&-so vendor instead would be better done privately, via Dmail to the co-op host. Otherwise, the host is likely to feel their choice of vendor has been publicly criticized, when the poster's intent was (hopefully) just to be helpful.

I'm glad to see this thread bumped back up. I'm hoping we can get some input from Dave on which way he's inclined to go, so we can continue the discussion.

I think the 3 broad choices of direction are: leaving things as they are for the moment, adding/changing guidelines to improve the success of the co-op forum, or moving co-ops over to a designated "commercial" forum (similar to but separate from the classifieds) so the vendor-member-host issues become moot.

Dave?

:-)

Ok gonna chime in here.

I tried somethign new to see how it would work. I one of the little guys and grow most of what I have myself. Somethings I have to bring in as plugs and grow. For my small business thought I would try and see if I could get some interest in products that would benefit maybe some coop buyers and allow me to brign in stock for myself to sell locally.

I purchased and put up three interest ads. Just kind alike a co-op but not on co-op forum to see how they would do. Then if enough interest to meet the high totals I needed so I could have extras, then was gonan put up the purchasing ads. Well, that was a big bust. Nobody even knows some of us our in the classified ads.

I don't mind paying for ads, don't even mind paying if I only get a coupel fo sales, if I at least know my product and items are being recognized and seen more than just a tiny link in from the forums community section. Would be nice if the Classified could have a regular tab. Need somethign to let folks hey beside marketplace and co-ops that classified there and it has paying vendors and folks. That we out here too.

Quite honestly, I don't even think to look at the classified ads as they are in obscurity.

I try to remember to check them once a week, but obviously I miss some new postings! If the opportunity had been in a co-op or group purchase forum similar to classifieds, I'm sure I'd have found it.

I'm more & more in favor of creating, if possible, a commercial forum similar to classifieds (hopefully one permitting threads) as an alternative format to replace the co-op forum. The big difference is that the new forum would be clearly commercial so member-vendors could participate as well as non-vendor hosts. That would eliminate a lot of the current gray areas and also hopefully take some of the complaint burden from admin.

Critter, I woud love to see that happen. I am tryign everything I can think of to get out there.

Will dmail ya a copy of my ad, so ya cna see what forum I took and maybe come up with some ideas too how us smaller vendors can get an edge, not against other Dg vendors , don't want to hurt our regular DG vendors, but outside vendors, would like to be able to compete against.

OK, thanks! I'm sorry I missed it. A tab for classifieds would make it more visible... Another thing that would help me check it more often is if I had the option of arranging my list of watched forums alphabetically -- I'd be able to find and click it more easily!

I have a lot of watched forums, and the current "most recent post" system of arranging them drives me nuts... I don't want to derail this thread, so if anybody else would like an alphabetical list option, please go here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/892192/

Good idea of the commercial forum, critter.

Critter, I like the sounds of a Commercial Forum too. I know a lot of DG'ers enjoy doing the Co-op's but I'd think a vendor could offer good deals through a commercial forum if they offered discounts - certain prices for certain quantities.

It would be great if DG could implement a Commercial Co-Op Forum without Admin. having to get involved in problems between the vendors and DG customers, and getting bombarded with d-mails from unhappy Co-Op participants! Even if stated in gigantic print: "Participate At Your Own Risk" many folks are still blind to those words.

Maybe there could be a sub forum, still under Classifieds, but labeled Classified/Co-Op? Vendors could have their regular ads under the Classified section with no threads but if someone wanted to do a co-op for one particular vendor/item, it could be under the Co-op heading with threads for posting? Still keep it commercial. Although, if there are threads for folks to post, it would still come down to policing ourselves and trying not to let conflict arise.

I'm sure at some point there will be a good solution to satisfy everyone, or almost everyone, LOL.

Here's the "alternatives" thread where we were trying to hash out how such a commercial forum might work and what the advantages would be: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921953/

Wonder what's going on with the time showing on my posts? It's 11:00 AM here!


I love the alphabetical option!

Although I missed the details, it looks like there was a dust-up resulting in a co-op being canceled/closed today.

Dave, could we please get some input from admin on whether alternatives to the current co-op forum (either a different format or a commercial venue) are being considered? I think there are a bunch of us waiting for the subject to be re-opened if you want further input or feedback... we'd just reached a point in the discussion where we'd started going in circles, so we needed direction before things could move forward again.

I'm afraid if we continue to table the discussion, we'll have another and larger
issue with a co-op, and we'll lose them altogether.

I don't want to lose the co-ops for good!

Me either Critter, or all th epeople who frazzled their brains all that time tryign to save them, only to have a hic-cup.

Yep, there was one and as somebody who also shops on those co-ops, I tried to put out a reminder to folks to remember the past and remove negative /comments type posts. All had removed their posts, but one, which should never have been posted on the co-op forum. If that person had a complaint or problems they should have said on the interest thread, hey i had a problem check feedback and let it lie there and if not satisfied with hostesses final choice , just not ordered.

I think this shows that maybe having an attachement to the stickies , that those folks wanting to host a co-op thta nevr have before must have an experience d one from a list on the sticky of acceptable co-op hosts/hostesses with them. Even better have folsk doign interest threads ask the acceptabel list of host/hostesses if they would be willign to host the one they want, and if not then at least pair up.

It sprign fever seasonand folks are anxious and hyper form beign snowbound so long and are not thinking clearly I think and so anxious that they will take/push into a co-op anybody as a host/hostess without really thinkign it out. An acceptable or seasoned, maybe is a better word, list in stickies I think might be very beneficial.

here we are again, with one post settign a bad tone, and even after reminder, that was ignored. We don't want co-ops lost, but without some sort of maybe warnign to the poster not following rules, will help deter others.

Maybe just one post from you Dave below the stickies that if any flamign misconduct or lack of respect for fellow gardenrs is found on these threads, the coops will be permantely closed. Make sure you read all the stickies before participating in any form of co-op. and have it in Blue or that hot pink color ya have. LOL woudl be an attention getter for sure.

I notice we have a lot of new folks on the co-ops new garden members some who may have read stickies and some who may not. All at the moment I and several others can do is pray that they take heart and follow examples of regulars and keep thing ssmooth running and..

we'll all falling down and throwign ourselves at yoru feet that you will have mercy and patience while the regulars try and guide news ones.

I did notice what looked like pretty prompt intervention from you and others, Star, although by the time I checked on the co-op, the offending posts (and apparently the whole related "discussion" thread for the co-op) had been removed.

I'm all in favor of new people stepping up to host co-ops, but I think teaming up with a more experienced person as co-host or adviser is a great idea... as well as giving input on the size of the co-op and helping with set-up logistics, an experienced person could help "ride herd" on the discussions and step in with reminders to back up and assist the host.

I thought we had only tabled the "fixit" discussion for the holidays, so I've been hoping admin could help us steer the effort in one direction or another so we can get going again. I don't think we should stall the discussion until co-ops crash.

This one was settled amongst members. Some times silence is golden.

I'm going to stand back from that post, but not remove it. . Starlight and Critter are correct. This one turned not bad, just awkward, but was fixed. Discussion still should be open to continue to make these work.

Chris

Chris, I appreciate all who stepped in and stepped up to avert a meltdown. But it did make me think it was time to bump up this thread again. Thanks. :-)

Yes, it was, I know myself, several other vendors and even Buried Treasures after soem of the problems from the past, are tryign to help soother running, by limiting the amount of product offered at one time. It better to space out a lot of smaller co-ops than to run one with 20-50 items and thousands of ordered plants at once and try and keep everybody happy.

I know personally, for the items I was asked for, I broke them down into groups, limited number of items and spaced out shipping. I knew all the items my hostess and her customers wanted and set limits.

Buried Treasure I noticed too limited his services do doing only one group of items at a time even when being asked by several folks to do both.

Some of the participants that miss out may be a little upset at time, but better to have things go slowly in stages and several parts if need be an ensure smooth runnign than a jumble mess and complaints come shipping/receiving time.

I definatly think partnering is a good ide a for new hosts. I don't have any problem with them hostign either, some thigns I wouldn't get oif they didn't, but havign an advisor alogn could remidn them abotu things like, does your ad say how much product, ship dates, amount of each item, drop ship or mailed to host and then shipped, kind a like so the new ones, can have an advisor run through a check list before hand. It might help too to relieve some confusion.

Or maybe some of the experienced hosts get together and make a hostess check list and have it added as a stickie, so all would have a guidline. That way if a new hostess doesn't know maybe an experienced one or is to shy to ask, they would have somethign to go by.

For those who were following this discussion, Dave just posted a new thread in this forum about co-ops. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1021758/#new

Rather than continuing the discussion here (even though I've just bumped up the thread to post that link), please post on the new thread Dave started. Thanks!!

This is an outdated thread. See the co-op forum for information on the new structure for co-ops.

The issues discussed on this thread are now mostly moot.

(Stormy, maybe you could post a "closed" at the top of this thread for us.. thanks!)

The reason I'm bumping it up is to ask the people watching this thread to chime in on a related discussion over in the DG forum.

The idea of finding a way to permit Q&A and chat in relation to "group buy" or special sale opportunities offered through the Classified Ads forum recently came up again in a co-op interest thread, so I thought it might be useful to start a thread about it.

Here's the link: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1050556/

See you there! Thanks.