alternatives to co-ops

The recent closing of the co-op forum disappointed a lot of us (me included), but I understand why it was problematic for admin, and I'm thankful we had co-ops as long as we did.

If you want to ask why the forum was closed, comment on your disappointment, etc. please go to this thread, http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921605/#new

We decided we needed a new thread to constructively discuss alternative ways of doing group purchases and offering bargains to the DG community. Hopefully we can work out something through the existing tools of the classifieds and the marketplace.. Dave has already posted his willingness to improve those features so they're more useful for this and other purposes.

Please post your ideas here.

Again, please direct other comments about the closing of the co-ops to the thread linked above, or start a new thread for that purpose. Let's try to keep this discussion focused and positive!

:-)

Here's my post from the other thread:

I wonder how it would work out to allow the classified ads to be threads rather than single posts? That would allow space for discussion, answering questions, even (possibly) figuring out how much interest there would be in an offering ahead of time (posting an "interest" ad before a "sale" ad) so you'd be less likely to get stuck with 6000 extra kumquat seeds. A "chat" forum for the classifieds might work even better, as you could post a link from your ad to a thread in the chat forum and then have the opportunity to start additional threads there as needed (I'm especially thinking of how long some of our "chatty" co-op threads can get).

Is it currently possible to edit a post/ad in the classifieds or the marketplace once it's submitted? If not, that might be helpful also, so details could be clarified if necessary (eg, if you got a lot of Dmails asking the same question, you could include the answer in your ad post).

With enough brainstorming I think we can come up with something...think..think...thinking.

LOL-I just started one as you were too!!LOL

Good thread idea! Whining and griping ultimately does no good, we're a clever bunch and I'm sure we can come up with some bright ideas :-)

Sorry, I hadn't participated in coops or thoroughly read that link but must admit I peruse the Classifieds and many times I have seen an ad that I would like to post a question on if I could have done it right then rather than leave that page to go to dmailing that seller. I think that and a 'sticky' type chat thread on classified would be useful features.

HERE ARE MY POSTS FROM MY THREAD MOVED OVER...


I know that some of you are hurt, disappointed and upset about the termination of the co-ops froum.

This thread however, is NOT for complaining, this thread is for CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions/ideas on how to still do group buys with our DG family and any questions you may have that admin can answer. I was thinking that since they were getting tar and featherd in the other thread, that if we were trying to find alternative resolutions to this, then they may actually peep over here and answer some ?? that have been posed in the other thread but overlooked.

So Dave, Terry & Melody, we welcome you here, your clarification, any help you can offer and answers to our questions.

I know I have gotten several Dmails with people wanting to know if I find and alternative-makes me feel good that peeps enjoyed my co-ops enough to want to be alerted of any other way to do group buys. I did have several ?? that weren't answered a few suggestions too, so I thought maybe if I started this thread we could get someplace instead of butting our heads against the wall.

One ?? I had was can I post in my existing co-op that anyone who wants to be alerted of future ones, to please dmail me their email address-is that within the rules??

In the classifieds, all you need to do is click on the posters DG name. You can then D-mail a question directly to them.
Dave's is so simply to use, it's amazing how some people can get it all screwed up.

D-mailing the person posting the ad for an answer is sure a lot better than a bunch of people tossing it around when they don't know what they are talking about!

When I placed my classified ad last spring, I linked to my web site & people could e-mail me there. I checked it often & answered immediately.

I don't see a need to try to get a new way of sharing extra good deals.
I noticed different classified ads that a DG member put on by way of getting with a vendor & offering things at reduced prices.

Like I said before, the ads in classifieds are sometimes giving better prices than some of the over priced co-ops.

By the way I joined 3 different co-ops & had no trouble with any of them. Happy with my purchases.

Bernie

Critter has asked me to post this here (a quick copy and paste job :0)........

Would this work? A co-op group could be formed on yahoo (a new one) All co-op organizers and vendors could post their "new selections" and then an AD placed within Classified Ads to alert DG members of a new co-op. That way Admin no longer has worry about co-ops in general. DG members are still welcome to participate in co-ops and those people who are only interested in co-ops could have what they want too.

cocoa... that is what i was thinking too.

I dont know too much about Yahoo since it went to "Groups" years ago [i found that whole concept confusing]
but there may also be a way that folks have to be accepted into the Group.
and emails are done single-y or in digest form, along with on the "group site' itself.

Dave, I don't understand the distinction between what lulu suggested and having people include links to external web sites in their classified ads (which I think is permitted). Or is the problem that we'd be promoting the yahoo site overall?

How would a 'yahoo group' be different from a vendor? A new group could actually allow vendors another place to sell in large bulk. I'm just thinking of the ease of using the 'e-mail format' that yahoo offers. Aren't most large bulb companies nothing other then 'co-op' buyers and sellers? Please note I'm not being persnickety, just looking for a solution.

Since the issue here is open for discussion, and there are so many of us that tempers are bound to flare, may i suggest we nominate Stacey and Jill to represent us and our suggestions and concerns to Dave?

cocoa-I think one main difference here is that for a yahoo co-op we would not be a vendor-vendors make profit and as anyone who has run a co-op knows there is NO profit involved....I agree with Kathy that with tempers flared that there should be a format for these suggestions....

We could all discuss it here, then Stacey and Jill can take our best ideas to Dave

As I said on the other thread, I don't want to try to figure out what concerns and suggestions are relevant and appropriate to bring to admin's attention. (But I appreciate the implied compliment that I'm trying to be level-headed about this.)

:-)

If we can be self-policing on this thread when/if tempers flare, I think that will give Dave hope that we can be self-policing about tempers flaring during co-ops.

Oh right Fairy, I wouldn't suggest anyone try and make a profit doing co-op :0) I'm wondering what would make a co-op organization the distinction of being a company in the eyes of DG.

Moved to the other site. Sorry for my confusion Patti

This message was edited Nov 9, 2008 6:38 PM

Oops, I can't count to 6. Sorry, my intentions are noble. Patti

I am wondering if a couple of Co-op forum moderators would work-people that handle any outward bickering and any inkling of the shilling-then those 2 could ask admin to check into it instead of a bizillion dmails....also those same people can alert admin if very unsuccessful co-ops or ones where there have been X amount of negative feedback that those people are banned from doing them anymore??

The 'shilling' part has me confused. Like, how many degrees of separation does a vendor and member need? It's such a fine line at times and when a member hosting lives so close to a vendor, people freak out and assume it's a shill. I don't care because a good price is a good price. Is it only other vendors who have a problem?

It seems too that admin could simply state along with the other disclaimers at the top of the co-op forum. Is that they will not answer co-op question or complaints, that's what the feed back system is for. That way if a vendor does want to participate it's up to us consumers to decide if we want to or not.

The shilling is when a vendor asks a member to host the co-op and will ONLY work with that member-and there are some like that-it is not one of us seaking out a vendor and asking pretty please can we have a co-op with you.....

I've posted a new thread to discuss "Fixing the co-op forum" here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921974/

I think it's still a good idea to discuss alternatives to the co-op forum also, in case we can't find a good solution that would let Dave re-open the forum.

Let's try to keep the two discussions focused on their respective threads, if possible, so it's easier for admin and everybody else to follow along.

Thanks!

Well, I just spent quite a while reading the "gripe" thread... and also Dave's comments. Lots of good points made on both ends of the spectrum. Lot's of hurtful, and unnecessary comments, but I found it constructive none the less if for no other reason except to vent and roar about some people's disappointment. Dave seemed very professional to respond to those "ugly" comments in a reasonable manner.

I've only entered into one coop, and was very happy with the way it was run... I was looking forward to future coops but understood that I would do so at my own risk. Which brought up questions I had as to what "at my own risk" entailed. Now I know, after reading the other thread.

It seems that the "vendor" coops were the problem. And, policing the coops to catch the "vendor" at advertising themselves is a problem for Admin. I can see how that would be a problem... I don't know how Admin would know, or even have a why of finding out, who the coop was being run by, or who was behind it. That would discourage me, as well, from wanting to continue the coops threads.

The only suggestion I can muster here is that if they reconsider keeping the coops is that each and every member should pick coops run by people they've dealt with before, ones they know well, and have had enough dealings with in the past to feel safe with that person. Perhaps even adding a "rating" to those members who run the coops "about" page so others can rest assured or stay away according to their rating. I wouldn't buy anything from and Ebay seller without checking their rating either.
I like the suggestion of a "volunteer" committee of DG members to police the coops. Perhaps an application form can be submitted to those committee members from prospective coop administrators. Perhaps they can be scrutinized before hand, and approved or unapproved prior to applying for a coop thread. Perhaps a committee member can start the thread themselves... then let the person take it from there, gather their orders, and complete the coop in a designated time frame... if all goes well, the committee member won't have to do anything else but monitor the thread. If a problem arises... the committee member could cancel the thread, and the coop is finished before it closes.

Like I said... I'm not a seasoned coop participant... so, this is just some ideas I've gathered from reading other's posts.

BJ-can you post that in the fixing the co-op thread as well??

I wonder if a classified ad saying "email me if you want to go in on a bulk purchase from ..." would be plausible? That way whatever website or non-DG forum being used can be revealed and discussed through private email (not dmail). That seems like a reasonable way to privatize the co op, but at least get the word out to DG friends that its going on.

I like that idea!

I like that idea too gemini, takes away the headache for DG, uses the Classified section to announce offerings at a small fee, moves the discussion off dmail. Perhaps we can find a way to 'cover' the classified post fee for the poster as a handling fee. I know it's not much but if we share the cost it's better for everyone. We have some very good coop hosts that I'd love to see continue to be able to organize and share their opportunities.

Love this thread, thanks for the constructive opportunity to continue to get my plant 'fix' along with my DG friends.

Yes, Patti/bbrookrd, please post over in the co-op fix thread...I am more interested in fixing the co-op than replacing it at this point, so I won't be watching this thread.

(I'm glad you don't need a moderator, Dave. I feel the town meeting approach is important and don't want a spokesperson for me, at least.)

:-)

ooo... I like Gemini's suggestion (thought of it, too...but forgot...lol). More paths to the same destination!

I am not very familiar with all the rules on Dg, and unfortunately learning fast! LOL!

my question is this: If I have a website of my own.... can I purchase an add and post a link in the Ads forum?

If so, maybe its just a matter of a hostess setting up their own website and then purchasing an ad on DG announcing a bulk purchase on their site of 'such n such' items.

all of the buying and discussion would then be completely outside of DG and no complaints to DG admin when something goes wrong...etc. it would be completely separate.

I am just unsure if we can post a link to our own website in an ad.... if we can do that, then the solution would be pretty simple it seems.

AnjL

>>I am just unsure if we can post a link to our own website in an ad

I thought that is what Bernie said he did.

I support whatever Dave decide is best. He has never let us down yet & don't think he will now.
I just now found this out by accident a few mintues ago.
Since I am in one of the coops now,I wish I had been informed about this at the beginning. Now I don't feel very good about being in one.

Yes, folks placing ads in the classified cna place a link to their websites and that is what Bernie was referring too.

Some folks in classified just list what they have their and that is thos eus us with no web sites. Some folks say what they have and include a link. I look at the classified and then go the link they provide and shop around their web sites. You have the option when on the classified of havign folks dmail you or sending you an email or both. Nice set-up.

Do you think that if a co-op type of opportunity is offered via classifieds and goes badly that people will confine their complaints to feedback and email/Dmail to the organizer? It should be even more clear than the disclaimer on top of the co-op forum that DG admin is not responsible for opportunities advertised in the classifieds forum... but I also thought that the disclaimer would be more effective than it proved to be.

Simply moving the co-ops to another venue won't help if people continue to let unpleasantness spill over onto the rest of the DG community or barrage the help desk with Dmails.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here... it may well be that the classifieds provide a good way to handle things.

christmascactus-please don't fret-seriously-most of the co-ops are alright-it is just as we said before "the few bad apples"-if you have any concerns, see what co-ops the person has run before or look at their feedback...

Yes, Christmas, most of the co-ops are FABULOUS experiences and likely the one you are in now is the same. Dave does a good job, absolutely, but he is only human, and I'm pleased he has allowed that we could figure this out and continue in the co-ops.

For myself, if I were to run a co-op via ad or otherwise off DG, I'd likely screen my participants. It could end up being "cliqueish" because there will be people turned away. They are few, to be sure, but there are certain members that I would not allow in a co-op again based on past experiences which were likely not disputed on the threads.

Christmas, I am part of the "team" running the co-op you are in. Please dont panic. Our co-op will finish and I am sure everyone will be happy and excited to receive the wonderful glads they ordered. Kathy's (shihtzumom) coops have been some of the best I have ever been part of. In my opinion there are way more good coops and hosts than not. I hope this makes you feel better about the co-op you are currently involved in.


Everyone has great ideas! I think this may actually work out.

chris