part II on basic how to propagation based on my experience

Thats good. I just didn't want someone going hey wait a minute joe down the street has a cow, i'll just get some from him, and burning up plants. Sounds like you have a good handle on it though.
Does anyone know what a truck farm is???
Dave

Yeah, a patch of 'whatever' = watermelons, corn, whatever, enough to sell out of the back of a truck. 'Least that's what my husband sez... that's what all of his uncles grew on top of what was needed for the family.

Oh, I thought that was what all these dead vehicles people drag in to their fields are. Thought they sprayed them down with WD-40 once in a while and expected them to start running all of a sudden.

Jeanette

Ha!

AEROPONICS SYSTEM HOW2

I will discuss a system that is a combination of both bubblers and Aeroponics. The system will need a dark enclosed reservoir. I recommend one of those plastic Rubbermaid like totes, with its lid. The reason for a dark reservoir is to keep down the formation of algae. If algae are allowed to form it will use much of the available oxygen as well as deplete any nutrients you may have in the reservoir. First you will need the following supplies Available from your local hardware store.
Parts
PVC cleaner
PVC glue
½ inch PVC pipe 10 feet (can be cut in half to ease transportation)
Hacksaw
Sandpaper 40 grit (works great) 1 sheet
Elbows ½ inch - 9
T’s ½ inch – 5 (4 for mist heads and 1 full slip fitting ½” all sides)

Magnetic driven ceramic submersible pump - You should be able to find this at you local fish/pet store. You need somewhere in the range of 200 gallons per hour. You will need to figure out how to connect the PVC to the pumps out put side. As all pumps are going to be different I can’t say what you will need to accomplish this task. If you can scan or take a pic of the connection along with a measurement I am sure one of here can help you figure out how to connect it to the PVC.
A note on PVC gluing and applications, after you cut the pipe to the desired length take the sandpaper and rough up the end and remove any plastic burrs left from sawing. Be careful handling the cleaner and glue. You will want to either work outside or lay out newspaper to work over. You may also want to buy some disposable gloves as the cleaner stains the hands and takes days to ware off. After you have roughed up the ends on the pipe you will want to clean the end of the pipe about one inch from the end and the fittings to be attached. Now apply glue to the end of the pipe and push the fitting onto the pipe. You will have to work with the pipe to get it to line up correctly so it sits in the tank properly. Theory says that you should twist the fitting a bit to get a good connection. You will want to work fast with the glue and fitting as they do set up a bond rather quickly so do not try to glue all your fittings at one time. Attach on and move to the next one this way you can get the system set up nice and neatly.
In the lid you will want to drill/cut holes in the lid of the bubbler tank. I would stick to a half inch hole. The ½ inch holes you cut in the top of the lid you will now cover with tape. I like duct tape because it sticks best to what ever it’s attached to. You will cut a small slit in the tape and insert your cuttings into the hole. Now you will want to set up the mist heads on risers where they are able to mist the root zone adequately. I would use 4 risers with one mist head in each corner to provide complete coverage.


BUBBLER SYSTEM HOW 2

This system is for bubblers only. I will discuss combining the two later in this post.
For the stand alone system you will need a 5 gallon bucket, aquarium or Rubbermaid type tote with a lid for it. For the aquarium a piece of Styrofoam with holes in the foam for the cuttings floated in the tank will work. I would paint the tank with a spray paint that is approved for glass.
Parts
Aquarium air pump
Gang valve (the more hook ups the more air you can get into the solution)
Tubing to fit the aquarium pump
Air stones – I like the long one inch wide ones.
Razor knife or drill with hole bit.

You will want to drill/cut holes in the lid of the bubbler tank. I would stick to a half inch hole. You will also want to drill holes for the tubing to go into the solution. Once you have fed the tubing through all the tubing holes attach the air stones. You will want enough tubing to allow the stone to sit on the bottom as well as reach the pump. You can run multiple tanks from the one pump. Just run tubing off the gang valve to the next tank and set up as you have done the first tank.
The ½ inch holes you cut in the top of the lid you will now cover with tape. I like duct tape because it sticks best to what ever it’s attached to. You will cut a small slit in the tape and insert your cuttings into the hole. You will want to fill the tank up almost to the top, so that the water is on the end of the cuttings. Longer cuttings may be prudent as it could get messy with water overflowing. You will want to adjust the tank to operate at your desired level.

Combination system

Combination system is just as it sounds using both systems to achieve a better outcome. What you will do is set up the Aeroponics system as explained above. Now drill a hole in the lid of the submersible pumps reservoir to allow the air pump tubing to provide added oxygen into the submersible pumps reservoir. Place the gang valve on the tubing and add as many air stones as you think you may need. I would start with 4.

Drawings to follow. Any questions??

g althoughas anyone run into anything that you would *not8 attempt to propagqte without a bubbler? I have one (used for Brugs once upon a time) that I basically retired - any reason anyone can see for bringing it out?

Yup, good ole wal mart manure.!!!!

Speaking of "truck farms". There's a guy up in west texas has a "cadillac farm" He has about 4 or 5 acres of land right next to the highway with buried cadillacs in it. Nose down, back ends up out of the ground. All kinds, all ages. Believe it or not, it's a tourist stop. See, don't take much to make a bunch of cowboys happy. !!! lol

Gotta get my stuff to make my bubbler!!! What would we do without David!!!

Ok here is the drawing of a system. you may need to either use a shallow tote or block up the misters to reach the root zone. I think I would use a shallower tote and possible put in a drain back to the submersable pump. I think a "bushing can be found at the local hardware store to attach to pvc and plumb it back to the reservoir. Also you may want to use a weak solution (about 20% - 25%) strength of liquid fertilizer (peters, shultz) some granular you mix with water. I would strain the mix so that you don't get any solids in the tank that could clog up the pump. A hand held strainer with a cloth in it to strain it down to fine particulate comes to mind.

Did I miss anything ? I hope its not confusing
Dave

Do I understand from your drawing (Michelangelo, you are not!) that you are using two containers? If so, how are you getting the fluid back to the pump? You do mention a drain, but I don't see it.

Yes it was an afterthought ... a flaw in the design. I thought I could sell the drawing for big bucks... Oh well... Sorry about the poor drawing. I never did say I could draw...LOL

They call that kind of art "eclectic" probably worth thousands of dollars!!! lol

Ok, I'm getting off subject, but have any of you ever rooted Turks Cap?

What is that Lorraine? I have heard of it. Got a picture?

Jeanette

Hey Jeanette, here's a link to it in plant files.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/114737/

I read somewhere it was a native Texas plant, but I've never seen them around here. Must be from South or West Texas. I like them cause they are perennial and have those really red blooms. If I can get them to root, I'll send you some.

Howdy:
I apololagies for the crude drawings and the mishmash flow of this post. I am designing this off the top of my head and it sometimes gets bumped around by my loose marbles up their. The mist chamber will need to be elivated to allow for proper drainage. The return line can run in to the side of the submersable reservoir or the lid. The return (drain) line will be seperate from the mist supply line. I would also think about an aquarium heater to warm up the water misting the cuttings. It should be placed in the submersable reservoir. Also you can make the system as a one tote chamber by elivaing the mist heads to the proper level to mist the rooting zone. I think this concludes the aeroponics discussion rxcept for questions. The beauty of this system is that you can add mist chambers if you want and run more than 1 mist chamber off the submersable reservoir. You will want to watch the misters to make sure they are properly misting the rooting zone. Also when you 1st set up your system I would test to see if all 4 misters are required. There is a possability that 4 mist heads may be too many for one mist chamber.
To start your cuttings you will want to slit the taped holes and push the cuttings through the slits from the top. I was told it should take 1 to 3 weeks to root out your cuttings depending on species.
I believe this completes the aeroponics section of this thread, except for questions and discussion. Any Ideas on the next section?
Dave

Yeas I have rooted Turkscap - take log cuttings and lay across the soil in the srping - no leaves on the logs but must be after the stems are gorwing again. Reallllllllyyyyy easy to root this way.

Howdy:
as some of you know I am lets say frugal. I spotted this little article in one of the daily DG articles. Its a cheap way to cover the light spectrum for your babies as they grow. I hope this helps
http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf82414197.tip.html

Dave

Thanks Dave, That sounds like something I can put together. I am discovering I will not have as much greenhouse space as I had previously hoped. That is ok though, I will get more creative when I start bringing in some tropicals. I will have to confine the rooting area to a small space in the kitchen. LOL, At least I can winter sow my seeds and so use that space for something else.

I am lucky in that we will be enclosing our patio with a double wall of polly this winter so I should have no problems this winter with my plants. The only issue I see is it may be a bit shadier than some want it but they will adapt. I will probably rog up a couple of those lights in my garage for my gingers and bannanas.

Space seems to be a big problem. Maybe we could all go in together on a greenhouse in my back yard. I could send you your share of the heat and lights to pay. LOL Wouldn't that be nice?

Jeanette

funny very funny

Daaaaave, You don't like that idea????? What's wrong with it??

Jeanette

Oh I like the idea I just have to get the depreciation scheduale for my taxes so I can prove the loss. LOL And who's going to erect the green house? how big will it be and what kind of heat and cooling? LOL

Raising hand here with a question please.... In reading the last page, I took some cuttings of a birch tree, 2 different cherry trees,Leyland cypress trees &gardenia bushes. I followed the directions and my question is...Is it normal for some or all of the leaves left on the cuttings to turn brown and fall off? (do not laugh)The Leyland cypress is still green as well as the gardenia cuttings, everything else the leaves have either turned brown and fell off or are in the process of doing so. I pulled one of the birch cuttings out and the "stick" was still green inside.

No dumb questions here. everyone starts out somewhere and most folks are afraid to takes the first step. you have chosen some of the more picky plants to root. Do not give up on the lelandii it may take a while to root. as long as its green its ok. I have some boxwood I refused to give up on and it too about 8 months. How many of each did you stick in each cell if you did it media based?

Are you asking about the aeroponics or media based propagation. I loose a lot of leaves in my propagation so I just pull or cut them off saves the cleanup later and reduces the food for fungus to set in. so the short answer is yes its normal to fall off. how many of each did you take? I also use a spray bottle and try to mist everyone 2 times a day. it seems to help.
I will be curious how the leylandii does. its one I have not done but always wanted too. I just have to find one I can cut on without getting in trouble. LOL
Never be afraid to try something. whats the worst that will happen it does not root. your out a bit of time and some hormone really no big deal.
Dave

Here are a couple of sites to give an idea on difficulty of propagating certain trees and shrubs.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8702.html

http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/pnw0152/pnw0152.html

Have any of you tried or heard about putting cuttings in peat or sphagnum moss in plastic and letting them root over the winter this way? I have some camellias and bottlebrush I wanted to try. I have also read somewhere that it is an easy way to root trees over the winter months. I can't remember where or when I read this so I wanted to hear of others experience. Thanks, Linda

I read several threads on it. I forget what its called but it is a process of using those throw away containers you get from some resturaunts, packaged grapes and other things that have a clear top and a bottom to hold soil in. I think it was like winter scarifaction. basically you put your media in the bottom after you have poked drainage holes in it and you will wany to poke holes in the top to allow air exchange. they seemed to differ from one to the other on if the air holes were needed. I am planning to do some of that with a bunch of my trees here. I have a huge Japanese maple that although a crying shame it is needed to come out. its planted too close to the side walk at our entry way and its busting up the walk.
I plan ontrying this method as well as the sand method on large cuttings this winter. I am going to do red leaf norway maple, green leaf norway maple, crepe myrtle, fosters holly, yapon holly, , pin oak, yew and rose of sharon (I just want to try it) I have a life time supply of seed on the blue blush and white with red eye. I spent an hour last night getting seeds out of pods in the blue blush.
If we all try it and compair notes maybe we can get a good system down. I realize I think it was either mitch or pagancat has this down to a science. maybe we could get them to either give us a link or detail it for us... Please please please...LOL
Dave

Must've been Mitch!!!!

I've been wondering about the rooting hormone. I've been propagating a bunch of stuff here lately and totally forgot that a lot of people use it. I wonder if folks use it because... well, because everyone else does or if it really makes that big of a diff? I've been trying *really* easy stuff for the most part, and haven't had much problem - yet!

I winter sow seeds and wrote an article on it - http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/148/ and do the smae things with cuttings or woody branches with little to no issues. I dont know that I ahve it down but I get 75%-90% of them growing.

Thank you Mithc. I highly recomd that everyone read Mitches article. Its loaded with easy to follow directions is an all around great article. Thank you for writing it.
yes the hormone works. Actually it is how these threads came to be. Lorraine did a couple of co-ops one on germination supplies and the other was the plastic grow bags. We had so many questions that everyone asked me to do a thread on how to. The hormone I like to use is called Dip-n-grow. Its produces by the author of the book "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation", which I highly recomend although it is a bit pricey.
You need to try to maintain rootzone temp of 65 to75 degrees and air temp of 64 to 90 degrees. I would recomend those using the aeroponics/ bublers to get an aquarium heater for the submersable reservoir and a thermometer to help you dial in the temperature of the solution. Those using heat mats I would recomend you to buy the thermostat for the heat mat. The reason I am hitting this point is because I know a few of you have had some chilly mornings. I would hate to see the cuttings shut down on you.
I have read severeral coments in threads about using outside rope lights as heating cables. Its an ingenious adaptation. with christmas on the horrizon I would think they could be bought at an after christmas sale or even affordable during a pre-christmas sale.
I plan to use Mitch's method this winter. I had some sucess last winter with my seed flats with some just sitting there and going NAH NAH NAHN NAHNAH P~~~~~~ (still sitting there in the part shade).We used to sow our palms in mass flats and put them under a bench in a greenhouse. we would all but forget about them and then one day they are up and saying HOWDY. I prefered this method because it gave us controll on how many plants went into each pot. Most of the palms were one each except for the clumpers. We would plant 3 to 5 seedlings of Phonix robelinii (Pygmy Date Palm) in a one gallon pot and grow them up from there.
I bought one this spring from lowes and they planted like they did not care. it has 8 to 10 plants in one 3 gallon pot (10 inches) I am planning to split them up in the next few weeks. Palms have a fiberous root system so it allows us to cut the roots which causes the roots to split and make a more dense root ball.Here is a picture of one I bought at lowes 3 years ago for $20.00. The palm is one of the slowest growing palms, which will eventually reach 15 - 20 feet.
I hope this helps
Dave

I have often wondered about the date palms for in the house.. I might just might have to give it a little try. Would be wonderful to get one for that price.

Winter planting seeds is the fastest and best way to get a lot of seeds to grow with soooo little work it is really a plant and almost forget messure. I have used this method to start the seeds needed for the gardens at the school I used to work for - everything we needed in one year fast easy and cheap.

Sounds like a great system. I love my pygmy date palm I take him outside after the last frost. I just bring him in and put him by a window that gets lots of light. Becareful of the thorns. If you trim the fronds off be sure to get as close to the trunk as possible. once the thirns dry out they are real nasty. I have had too many punctures from them to forget about that detail.

Dont want to think about the thorns. I had my fill of palms with throns in VeraCruz.... they can get nasty - I would rather hug a cactus then work with some palms...

I know the feeling. Phonex reclanata has a real nasty thorn upto 6 inches long and all over the plant. While the pygmy date's thorns are easy to avoid, just make sure they are not left to harden after trimming leaves off. I try to give my tree a nice pruning in the spring to make it more presentable and to get a good flush of spring growth.
So what were you doing in vera cruz? Just curious...
dave

I have been in Costa Rica, Vera Cruz, and South Africa all for missions. Lived from 4th grade until my second year of college on the field with family.

This message was edited Oct 4, 2008 4:09 PM

KQQL. you must have seen some fantastic things. lots of plants to collect.

Very true - thus my LOVE of anything tropical and my quest to grow them here!

I believe once you get the tropics in your blood it never goes away. I have to get to the beach at least every other year. just to wiggle my toes in the sand.

I hear you... and winter outdoors just means warm jungle like temps indoors!

I think walking into a garden with lots of tropicals is really calming. I love it, just a chair, glass of tea and plants!!