Front yard / corner lot needs help for British pocket garden

Hi Twincol, no wonder you are so excited, every little bit of ground work makes you feel you are heading in the right direction, you take all the rest breaks you need right now, believe me, sometimes when I lay in bed and am so tired, something in my brain goes "ting" and some of the best ideas come flowing out, I am sure a lot of gardeners are like that, just as you nod off after a hard day and you are unsure how to go about some project, it just wakes you up again and you with it were morning, but a pencil and pad is as good as a great novels worth of reading, for me anyway.

You will realise that the roots of your wonderful trees will set you a chalenge as to what will grow there due to the trees taking any nutrients and moisture from the soil after rain or watering, but you will be able to get some plants that like drier less moist areas like Lavenders etc, so once all the backbreaking ground work is done and you take another look at your sizes after the fence is finished, you can bring some of your plans nearer to completion and then think all about the style of plantings you want keeping in mind the type of garden you are trying to achieve, so the best bit is still to come. remember that there is no rush and I would work on one bed at a time one you get the taller shapes fixed in your plan and the type of structure or shrub / trees you want for this, then work on the lower ground plantings schemes, so dont be rushed, just enjoy this part of the plan and dont over tire yourself. lets all know how you are going with the next stage and remember to ask any questions you like, we are all rooting for you, ha, ha, ha, pardon the pun about rooting. good luck. WeeNel.

A truly delightful thread!

Twincol, many good wishes to you as your garden dreams become reality! I'm excited for you and look forward to following your progress. What you've described sounds so lovely.

This summer I was able to visit Wyken Vineyards in Suffolk, England. As I read your posts, I was reminded of the gorgeous gardens. Each section seemed to have a theme, whether roses, herbs, hydrangeas, etc. I don't know if it was an authentic "Old English" garden, but parts of it were laid out very much as WeeNel described.

WeeNel, I'm glad Ecrane encouraged you to continue posting on the forum. Your thoughts are so insightful and superbly written. I learn something new with each posting. Thank you for sharing your love and knowledge of gardening!

Thank you so much for your kind words Plantmover, and as I said before, Ecrane always shows her thoughts for all sides on this site, thankfully she is not alone but of great value to us all.
I cant hold on to the monopoly for the love of gardening, it is self evident there are many, many more who share the same love, even people who dont know a Daisey from a Rose, dont mean they dont get some good feelings about a garden, so it is wonderful to offer these people encouragement to help them go outside and give it a try, then later here how they have achieved the wonderment of growing something they cared for and nurtured to maturity, and ofcourse the humour of gardening, lets not forget that side of it too. So thank you.
I am so glad you enjoyed your visit to the English gardens, no wonder they call it the green and fertile lands, but I think that is partly due to our climate and flower gardens have been here for hundreds of years, our garden history goes way back to the Roman times and possibly even before that when explorers came back with paintings/drawings
of temples, pillars and sunken gardens, we wanted to try mimic these and we just moved on with the fashions of the times, so we have a wide range of styles, plants and ofcource
the type of garden that twincol wants is really a copy of what the monasteries and monks were creating in small laid out beds and we adapted it to suite the needs of the poorer people who only had a small patch of ground to work with and were able to feed their families from this and grow herbs, medicines etc, they were not looked on at that time as a garden of beauty, more of need. hope she gets the garden she has dreamed about for all those years and it is a great healer for her too, she deserves it. happy gardening and best wishes. WeeNel.

if I can just add my two cents,
I have decided to do some of my backyard with some of the same ideas from on this post after reading it... As many of you have seen, I'm starting over, after being flooded out... and the BEST theraphy for me has been getting my hands back in the dirt and plantting... so instead of just plantting flowers, I was wanting to incoropate herbs and veg's in my beds.. Not wanting to just plant a veg. garden ( that would be too easy) so Off my patio in the back, I am going to do daylillies, lamb ear,sedum, dwaft Iris, and coreopsis and between the rows I am going to plant herbs and my vegetables such as carrorts, onions, beets ,cabbage lettuce....I will end up with a great variety of color and textures and then I fill in with annuals when the veg's have died out... It will be right out my back door handy... so thanks for starting this thread!! and good luck to you!

Hi Want2bee, really sorry you have damage done to your garden, it really is heart breaking, but like me, this gives you the opportunity that perhaps you were putting off to re design your yard/garden, my garden has been a disaster the past 2 years due to weather conditions, so it has made me rethink what I grow, where I grow it and also what is priority, unfortunately, the word priority always faces hard choices, but you get there in the end, when I was a kid, we always had mixed planting beds of food crops, herbs and flowers, my Mum got her picking flower garden set around the edges of the beds, perennials were allowed to grow in any space there was between the longer growing winter veg and peas and beans were grown up wigwams along with her favourite flowers of sweet peas, so with just a little forward thinking and planning, there is absolutely no reason you cant grow food crops in beside your flowers and you can even select the leaf shapes and colours to enhance the look of your beds, so take heart and just have fun.
Good luck. WeeNel.

Oh Phooooey! I typed a missive out on Word and tried to copy/paste it here and most of it gets lost!!! So, I'll have to re-type it online and ask the various questions I had in another window. Phooey!

I included this image "just because" to show you a bit of the patio I Olivia (well-loved Standard Poodle) and I planted beginning in 2001. Except for the 10X10 concrete pad I did all the work myself, including planting of the posts and vine fabric (actually it's hog fencing). We even mixed and poured the concrete pavers over an entire summer, every night after work. Of special interest, I think, is the large black pot in the lower right of the photo. It's a half an ocean float I bought from a man hereabouts and just love how unusual it is and thus the character it adds to my patio.

So, OK, I'll start re-typing that earlier message, which was what this was really all about.

Linda





This message was edited Sep 20, 2008 1:02 PM

I don't know that it's really a high risk. If they're heavy enough that you can't lift them even when they're empty but can only move them by rolling around, I suspect by the time you fill them up with flowers and wet potting mix you probably don't have a lot to worry about--thieves are probably not going to waste their time with something they actually have to work hard to steal, I would think they would mostly go for smaller decorative pots that they can pick up quickly and easily. If I understand correctly what you're trying to do with the rod, it would have to be pounded down pretty far into the ground for them to not be able to pull it up along with the pot, and given what you've said before about your hardpan soil that might be a lot of work on your part, so I probably wouldn't bother unless you think it's a high risk that your pots will get stolen.

Geez, ecrane, you're a speedy typist! You caught the earliest posting, which included a bit of the text I wanted to include. But you sure caught the gist of it. You're probably right about the hardpan making it difficult to impossible to plant a rod, as well as it's just being too much work to be worth the effort, given the limited risk.

I'll get back with the original post . . . shortly, hopefully.

Linda



This message was edited Sep 20, 2008 1:39 PM

Hi Ecrane, I have friends here in UK who have acres of ground laid out like and estate garden (to you and me, like a park with statues and huge sculptures) and they have to have them either concreted onto a plinth or padlock and chain to prevent them getting stolen, in the last few years there has been a spate or garden robberies due to these items being so valuable on the open market, the thieves drive up with trucks and cranes when they know the property is empty as they have been watching the routine of the occupiers and they take off with the stuff, we now have adverts on TV to warn us to be vigilant and lock up all our garden outhouses, equipment and even our kids toys, swings etc, what have we come to in society eh. Maybe this happens where the area is more rural, but it also happens in towns and villages, so nothing is sacred anymore, I only have a couple of very old large pots that would be considered worth money in today's market, but they really are heavy, plus I have added some old bricks to the bottom to make them even more heavy, more to protect against opportune thieves than anything else.
wish we could go back to the days of the Walton's etc when everyone looked out for each other and no one would take what was not theirs eh, dream on eh. WeeNel.

Twincol, I await with baited breath for your post, just have to know how you got on after the workmen left, excited yes I know that, but look forward to hearing from you about your next movements. Hope your well. WeeNel.
PS you large pot reminds me of things my Dad made from old tyres from trucks etc, he just laid them flat on the ground, cut one side of the tyres through with a saw, about 6-8 inches from the metal rim and then turned this inside out, and hey presto, he had made himself a large flower container which was painted white etc, it sure looked good. Talk about recycle, he never threw anything out. I remember one time he came home with an old frame from a aluminium frame tent, next thing we knew we had a fruit cage to protect his berries and soft fruit, ofcourse as kids we were mortified at all his ideas, but guess what, they worked and it saved him piles of cash in the days when everything was rationed after the war, now we have to go buy all the fancy gadgets and expensive equipment, then after it dont really do the job we were told it would save us time with, we just store it in a shed or garage, I'm sure he must be up there laughing at me some days. happy gardening, WeeNel.

GeEeEzZ, I've typed this numerous times only to have the text cut off mid-paragraph item #1. I finally figured out how it happened that the text was cut off . . . I was using html code, it turns out, by use of the pointed parenthesis key. Now, I haven't a clue what it means, but in the case of my use, it means STOP and DELETE what follows!!! So, WeeNel, take a deep breath, I'm finally finished and posting.

[original post]

OK, several technical questions related to hardscape here. Feel free to refer me elsewhere as needed.

1. Concrete flower pots? They're heavy, but I can roll them about on their bottoms when they're empty. I plan on placing them at each side of the walk-up toward the house IN FRONT of the vine fencing and resting on the clay pavers. My fear is that they may be attractive to those who might want to acquire some lovely pots more cheaply than I managed to do. So, here's my thought (I'm so darn clever I scare myself). How about having a metal worker make me a 3-4 foot-long rod with a top on it -- like this -- T --. Just run that thing through the watering hole and even if the rod doesn't insure permanency, at least it makes it look as if it would be impossible to move them. Now, am I clever or what?! My question? Hmmm? Copper? Iron? What would NOT interfere with the soil chemistry?



2. Clay pavers? At this same concrete walk-up, recall, I plan on laying them atop a portion of the length of this same concrete. What do you suggest I look at to afix them to the concrete all the way up to and including the two steps at the landing? I haven't a clue what to use. And remember, we're talking about two very different materials here: clay and concrete.



3. Pre-emergent? I've noticed that the local bird population spends hours twittering about the bare ground, pecking about at the dirt? They're finding seeds, of course. Since the ground is currently uncovered and much of it may be until Spring, I'm wondering if it makes sense to apply a pre-emergent to knock off the winter weeds (and they're there, have been for the past 3 winters) so I don't have to deal with clearing them in the Spring when I go to plant. It seems to me that doing so would also insure better weed control with the new plantings when future winters arrive. Another application to snag the Spring weed population as well. Keep in mind that this soil has lain bare, un-watered, untended in any manner except to clear it for 3 years and is doubtless populated with considerable seed trash several inches down. Does this process make sense? Do I use a different pre-emergent for different seasons? Will it interfere with rooted plants as they are planted?



4. More pre-emergent? The worker who cleared the surface this past summer threw it on top of the leaves I've been gathering for mulch. WHAT A BOZO!!! He knew I was going to use those piles for mulch! Anyway, now what? Toss it all out? Can my leaf mulch be rescued? And there will be a new crop from those two Mulberries this year for me to use. So, if I must, I suppose I can toss out the old stack.



Arrrgggh . . . so much for me to learn. Do you suppose this Leading-edge Babyboomer has enuf memory left to learn it?


Linda

Quoting WeeNel: "now we have to go buy all the fancy gadgets and expensive equipment, then after it dont really do the job we were told it would save us time with, we just store it in a shed or garage, I'm sure he must be up there laughing at me some days. happy gardening, WeeNel.


[chuckling] Aaah, but my dear, think of the legacy you leave the next generation from which to select, eh? You AND your pop will be able to laugh together as you watch them.

Linda

For the pavers, if you go to Lowes/Home Depot/etc and tell them you want to stick clay pavers down on concrete, they can probably direct you to the proper thing to use. For the pre-emergent, I would absolutely put some down, otherwise the second you get a good rain you're going to have thousands of weeds popping up. You will likely have to reapply it several times over the course of winter/spring since it does get washed out when it rains a lot, the package will tell you how often to reapply. All it does is prevent seeds from germinating, so it won't have any effect on plants that you plant. But if you were planning on planting seeds in some of your beds it'll stop them from germinating just like the weeds.

I have to admit I did not read all of this but I do have 3 books to recommend. The first two I bought in London, they do have publishers in the US.

20 Best Small Gardens by Tim Newbury (the title use the number 20 rather than the word.) Building Your Garden by Ian Penberthy and Town Gardens Practical Ideas for Transforming Small Urban Spaces by Valerie Bradley.

So OK, Zen, I've tucked these titles away on my desktop to pull out when I get through the stack I have next to my drafting table (the dining room table actually). I've a number of British books and mags to digest, a stack which your references appear to fit comfortably into. Thanks for passing them along.

Ecrane, you're right about the referral to the home improvement stores. I did some Googling to find several brand named adhesives and instructions, which suggests that there is a clear solution for this work. The search also informed me that I have some prep work to do in advance, which will take some time. And the process of thinking about it also made it clear to me that I have some tight measuring and trimming to do in order to make it all fit together. There are some pretty complex steps to go through to do it well. But, I can do it!

We often have a rain the first week of October (annual county fair week--chuckling--you never forget such inopportune interruptions) so I figure I'll try to get my first application done this coming weekend, just in case. And so as to guarantee total coverage I've got to get my worker here to empty the plant holes so the foot traffic doesn't destroy the surface.

ACK, I'll stop with the details. Suffice it to say, I learned many years ago to try to anticipate the complexity of such work if I was going to do it rather than hiring a professional to do so. I learned it by missing important considerations in my family room addition construction and kickin' myself ever since for having done so. So now I try to think like a professional, rather than assuming simplicity, where complexity is more likely the reality.

WeeNel, I read your thoughts about theft on UK acreage, isolated from many observant neighborly eyes nearby, and am sad. I envision smaller versions of the larger castle estates, with all the lovely statues, pots, plantings, and the boldness of such perpetrators who would pull up with huge trucks and trailers and even cranes, for crying out loud, destroying someone's dream, even if only temporarily, just saddens me. And frankly, I don't believe that such perpetrators necessarily ever experience the sense of guilt over their shameless behavior which would satisfy my need for "justice."

So, OK, Gugals (guys'n gals), I'm back to the footwork of design and hardscape construction over the next few weeks. I'll try to get some pics up as it progresses.

Hang in here with me. You've been such a huge help and I don't want to lose your expertise. You're the GR8st.

My best, Linda, who celebrates the upcoming arrival of Fall

Linda, for any help required by outsiders now you have your plot cleared, you are best to get all your drafts down on paper and include measurements too so when you discuss what you want them to do, they are in no doubt what you mean, especially if you need tight lines paved or shapes for beds, always remember, this is going to be your own pride and joy, once the help/guys leave the finished job, they really aint going to care if the pathways are a foot out or they covered an area you thought was for a bed etc, IF you can lay out a plan and use coloured crayons etc to show up the areas they need to be aware of, then it helps save you time and money trying to undo work you had already paid for, take your time, dont feel under any pressure and IF you get it right at the start, it will still look good even before you get plants in as the outlines will be there for you to get more ideas for the next stage, one good reason why I suggested you keep a picture of the house and the area to draw for your garden layout, it takes a bit longer to do it right, but as you are learning, better done well than needing redone later.

for laying your paths, remember they will be heavy traffic areas when tending and planting, so make sure they are laid for safety in mind, I would have thought blobs of concrete would have been suficient for the pavers, but advice from experts are always best as once laid, you really dont want to have to lift them up to move or relay them again.

As for moving heavy planter, pavers or any other heavy things we all have to move around the garden, I got hold of a small 2 wheeled barrow, (we call them sack barrows or you used to see porters in railway stations put luggage on them) I could not manage half the things I cart around the garden without this barrow, it is so easy to maneuver about as it is tall and thin, you just run the barrow with the foot plate up to your large pot, tilt the pot up on one side a few inches, kick the foot plate under the pot and then tilt the barrow handles back and your pot is sitting on the barrow plate ready to move where ever you like, I find it easier to pull the barrow rather than push heavy objects, I have a back problem so believe me, if there's an easy way, I have found it.

As for the weed seeds growing in the beds you want to get ready for planting, I clear my areas from weeds, then cover them with black plastic sheeting, to hide this if you feel it could be unsightly, gather your leaf drop and throw it onto the black plastic and it will help to hide it and also the leaf mold will rot down ready to be dug into the soil come spring, before you start to dig it in, you just pull the plastic away and store it for later use. you can always stick a few pots on top too, the flowers/plants will remind you of how it looks with some plants growing in this area.

Garden theft is on the rise here in UK, there is such a demand for anything antique here and also from overseas that sometimes things are stolen to order, a picture is taken by the thieves and then they get the OK to go get it, fact of life here now, even garden landscaping tools are taken and sold on EBay.

You don't have to spend a lot of money on containers for your type of garden as in the old days, everything was used from old wash tubs to chimney pots, but the real old timers would have them made from lead as they could make designs, impressed into the sides and top edges, the designs would be things like an Oak tree, hens/chickens, a swan, or even just the house number stamped on the sides, but junk shops would be the place to look out for unusual items to use as planters, I have old wooden barrels, I got them from old breweries (bear, wine etc) and they look great when planted up, even used as side tables in the seating area.

Cant wait to here how you are coming along, so keep us all informed when you get the time, look after yourself and enjoy.
WeeNel.

Aaaah, WeeNel, you bring such clear thinking with your advice. Yes, yes, a plan, measured, drawn out on paper so you cannot MISS the instructions. I’ve attached a pic of my workspace with the 20X30 inch (I give up with the conversion) photo of my house to work with. Awesome, huh? So I plan on using my evenings when it gets too dark and too cool to be outside working to put my plan together. That’s the wall at my dining table. When you don’t have anyone else to please you can nail anything you want on the walls!

But, but, I mean, there are two holes for each post . . . one for the post . . . one for the plant!! ! Why the heck did he fill the plant holes???? IDIOT! ! ! I’m going to call him, finally, tonight, to remind him that he has some work left to do here, which he has already been paid to do! ! ! And I’ll have him dig out those holes in the parking strip on the street, so I can plant it this fall.

The temperature this evening, at 6 p.m. is 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 Celsius—are you a Celsius location?), so we’re still pretty warm. But we expect to be down in the low 80’s this weekend, which will encourage work outside. Moreover, there’s even a prediction of possible thunder/lightning/rain storm in the next week! What’d I say? The County Fair hits town this week and we often have rain and heat, in turn, during Fair week! I have moved my little leaf mulcher thingeeeee out by the back gate and will drag my leaf scruncher out to cut ‘em up and begin working on that pile of leaves.

And I will fill my plant holes full of good planter soil.

I purchased black plastic sheeting earlier this season to perform just as you prescribe and plan on laying it out on the parking strip when I plant the shrubs I need.

Aaah, yes, the little barrow? I have one of those I’ve used for a number of years. I need to put some air in the wheels, as they’re flat at the moment {chuckling}. But you’re right, it’s an indispensable piece of equipment, back pain or not. And this “old lady” appreciates any help with such work she can get.

Pavers? The stuff I found at the building supply store is actually a type of concrete which is used just for the purpose I need it. The web search supports just this type of adhesive and ecrane3 was absolutely correct in sending me there. I laid several out just at the porch landing so as to determine how much must be “skinned” from one paver so as to keep them centered, if you will, all the way up the walk. It will only require skinning off about 1/8 inch or so (about the width of the lower band on your favorite ring). So, I will get my little electric sander out and find the coarsest sandpaper I can find to see if it will do the job. I suspect it will do perfectly . . . how cool is that?! I just love it when things end up so simple. I must still measure the length of the walk to see if I must have three pavers (the width of the walk) cut down to end up exactly where I need them to end.

Oh my, I’ve driveled on so. Thanks for checking back in on me and my little job. My mother, 86YO with Alzheimer’s, lives in a retirement center, a secured residence, and there’s much to do after work hours from week-to-week. So I juggle multiple tasks, losing track of some at times. But . . . I never lose track of my garden tasks! It’s an exciting time, having laid out the bare bones. And that's as it should be.

Warmly,
Linda

Let me tell you about my British magazine stash and what I found last night. And, BTW, here's some web research related to the history of English gardens. I've cut it from the text above so that those who don't care to get into such things in these threads can simply scroll past it.

But . . . I've also taken the opportunity to add another photo. I took it this evening. I am in awe of seasonal changes, often getting confused about the changes, wondering if the seemingly negative changes I see are a result of my poor care or just the seasonal changes I'm unaccustomed to watching. But more importantly, I see some awesome stuff. The pic attached has, if you look at the lower left corner, brand new baby growth peaking out, some sweet Fall blush blossoms on my Sally Holmes, and a leaf blown by the wind from the Fruitless Mulberry nearby. Such an awesome display . . . babies, late blooms, seasonal leaf falls . . . all at the same time. Just awesome!

So . . . here's the magazine and web history references I mention above:

I went through all my English Garden magazines last night and pulled out an issue of The English Garden, February/March 1998, to take to work with me today for break times. Why? There was an article entitled “Great ideas for small gardens” I wanted to look at. It’s a great little article and one of the little gardens uses “old Yorkstone flags” to pave in in much the same way I envision my own paving. So I put a little sticky on it and will set it aside to reference. And on to the next British The English Home magazine; I have 4-6 per year for the years 2003 through 2007 stacked up to peruse. I bought them on eBay last year and now that I’m doing the work it’s time to go through them again with a more serious eye. How exciting is that? And I have some books related to gardening history to go through as well.

BTW, there’s a nice little history of English gardening (though not as thorough as you provided us), The Story of Gardens; Victorian Gardens, including Chester, Taunton, Chatsworth. You’ll find it at www.swgfl.org.uk/storyofgardens/victorian.asp . There are references and photos and links to “Garden Case Studies” of some of England’s gardens; Belsay Garden, Birkenhead Park, and Brodsworth Garden. I was in Chester in 2003 and loved the homes and gardens on the river. And I've some stunning photos of some of the land between Chester and Carnarfan (sp?) Castle. Lovely. Anyway, this is a nice little reference.

Linda

Hi Twincal, just replied to the email you sent me, then picked up this thread and read about the books and gardens mentioned in them. If anyone is interested in old gardens (British/English) then a good ref would be to search the web for gardens held in trust to the nation in the care by The National Trust (Gardening Guides) Borders, they are by Borders Books, the author is Penelope Hobhouse and this one in particular that could be of interest to you as it not only shows borders, but with pictures of them when planted and matured, it also has the planting plans with the plants used and how the combination of textures, colours and how many plants of each type were used to create the effect as seen. But there are lots of gardening subjects listed too from herb gardens to wall/climbing gardens so there is plenty for everyone to be interested in, I find these books in second hand book stores and love them, we here in UK still use the same methods and plants even though there are many other gardens being made now with very modern ideas too, in time, the old fashioned gardens still get brought back into vogue again.
All or most of the large gardens you visited or are part of large estates here are now held in trust by this body and they have the care and upkeep for them, they try to work and restore old neglected large estates by tracking down the old gardeners plans and use the same plants and materials keeping the English garden histories alive for the nation and visitors from all over the world.
Another wonderful old gardener of greatness was a lady called Gertrude Jekyll, she was instrumental in making a lot of the gardens you mentioned along with a chap called Edwin Lutyens, together they built many wonderful gardens, he did a lot of the hard landscape work while she did the layout of the formal beds/borders and plantings, she liked to make gardens broken up into rooms where she had small areas themed in different textures and vivid colours, but a lot of her plantings are just like the ones you are hoping to achieve, so look out for her books also, my favourite book or hers is called Colour Schemes for the Flower Garden by Gertrude Jekyll, this book was first published in 1908, the copy I have is printed by the Antique Collectors Club Ltd., Woodbridge, Suffolk UK, if you get it maybe from your own library, when you read it, you actually feel you are walking through her own Garden at Munstead, and she has laid out all her planting plans and has gardens for every season, one to follow the next,
Hope this helps you fulfill your dream Garden. Will get back to you after the weekend as I am off to visit grand kids, elderly sick uncle and need to be off at the crack of dawn, which by the way, it almost is now. take good care. WeeNel.

Hi, all! I am exhausted, fried! I spent the weekend doing Fall cleanup in the backyard and took that little "barrow" WeeNel spoke of and moved my concrete pots to the front yard. I had to use it for the little rose bushes as well [sigh]. But what I managed to get done was 1) plant the Star Jasmine at the fence entry to the front door and 2) plant the little rose bushes in the concrete pots. Hmmmm, why? Well, I figured they would both benefit from the larger space and the Star Jasmine would most especially, as I hope that it will "hit the ground running" come Spring. That'd give us a head start come Spring and I've already decided that at least the first two posts on each side of the walkway will be covered in Star Jasmine. The rose? Well, it simply provides encouragement for continued work.

You will note that the Jasmine appears to nearly cover the front beds at the house walls, which is kinda cool. The Wax Leave Privet pom trees will lose the lower pom and be surrounded by a pot surround, thus providing a little color interest and contrast behind the concrete pot and Jasmine.

It's fun to have this much accomplished. We also have our annual street-side trash pickup this week, so I managed to move a small bit of yard trash out there. It's actually a bit more than this one person can manage to handle the physical aspects of the work, but it is certainly gratifying.

WeeNel, I took your suggestion and picked-up a Borders book by Penelope Hobhouse through Amazon. I also snagged a copy of her book, "A Book of Gardening: Ideas, Methods, Designs: A Practical Guide," which I thought might be interesting, as well. And if I'm not mistaken I have at least one of the books discussing Gertrude Jekyll's work, but I'm not up to searching about for it right now.

BTW, it was 90 degrees less than 2 weeks ago at this time of day, and it's only 64 degrees at the moment. Whew! Such change in such a short period of time, huh? It was very cool late last night and I turned on the heater (a rooftop dual pack [heat and air conditioning in one unit]) only to find it not working. I am remaining positive -- the pilot light is out and PGE can light it this week. We don't want anything else to be wrong with this 32YO unit, do we? Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Well, I'm off to rinse some of the dirt off me. Happy new work week, all!

Linda

Wow! Lotsa' good work there!

Thanks, Nan . . . ack, hard work is actually my middle name, although in years past I've certainly done more of it in shorter periods of time. One of the benefits of being a senior (oh dear, I'm a senior?!) is being able to get away with less hard work, eh?

Much remains . . . stay tuned if you have the stamina [chuckling].

Thanks, and feel free to pass along any thoughts you may have.

Warmly,
Liinda

Pic of a corner of my backyard patio room I started and completed (minus the usual tweaks) 2000-2003

My only thought is: Love what you've done"

That's beautifully done twincol ~ and reminds me to be patient, and things often turn out better that way - as you've proven : )

Knot gardens!

If you're interested in some history, otherwise feel free to scroll past this note. I learned in my research today that there are two types of "knot gardens," one of which is not a knot garden.[chuckling] One is a Parterre, the other is a Knot Garden. Here's the skinny (quoted material in italics) ---

The above was copied/pasted in small chunks from [HYPERLINK@www.pantonplants.co.uk] and is only a portion of the wonderful information about boxwoods available at this page. The owner is Panton Plants / Growers of Fine Box Hedging. I wish I lived in England and could order bare root boxwoods from them. Clearly boxwoods live an especially beloved life in the UK.

Further, in my reading of the book entitled "A Book of Gardening; Ideas, Methods, Designs" by Penelope Hobhouse, I learned that She goes on later to state that flowered plants were incidental to the knot garden, which was about the thread, but critical to the design of the Parterre garden, which was more about French embroidery designs and brightly colored.

Of particular interest to me was the distinction between the two related to 1) the shape of the boxwoods, flat or over-&-under to distinguish between the tread treatment on the fabric, and 2) that one uses all the same species, while the other uses different species to depict the different characteristics of the thread being used.

I would never have known that there was a particular way to make the knot garden or that it was intended to replicate the weave of the thread. Hmmm, wonder if one could design a little knot garden shaped like a basket, with the over and under of the weave of a basket? Very very very interesting to one who wants to build a knot garden and wonders if she's up to such a task, don'tcha think?

More than you ever wanted to know?!

Linda


This message was edited Oct 31, 2008 3:24 PM

This message was edited Oct 31, 2008 3:27 PM

Nanbernier, Redtootsiepop, thanks. And, yes, it took a summer of patience and work, but it was well worth it. It's the kind of work "girls" aren't supposed to be able to do, dont'cha know?! LOL

OOOoooops, that link didn't come through like it should have. Let me give it another try . . .

The large quote from Panton Plants / Growers of Fine Box Hedging can be found at http://www.pantonplants.co.uk/parterre.htm . My apologies, Linda

OK, Guys'n gals, a bit of progress. I hired my lawn service to do some cleanup hereabouts. As part of that work I asked them to trim the lower pom off the double-pom waxleaf privets and trim the top one a bit. So, here's a bit of a sense of the layout and "lack of symmetry" I'll need to work out. The privets are not symmetrical with the approaching walkway. And the concrete woven pots (I am so in love with these pots) are symmetrical, which is as it should be, I think. Keep in mind that it is my intent to plant those beloved pots with perhaps a contrasting shape, as in pointy top with a spiral body.

So, I'm going to have to keep on working on this little bit of property. We got the poodles' kennel cleaned up and that stupid invasive, messy bottlebrush sucker-tree cut down once again. They just keep popping up, despite the stump remover/destroyer applied to them as I cut them down. It is such an invasive and messy specimen.

So, I just keep a'workin.

Linda

BTW, those little "trees" will have the surround I showed in an earlier pic of the Cotswold pocket garden. I'm going to see if I can make them this winter when gardening becomes slower. And can you see the little gap in the window draperies? That's one of the black poodles watching out for me. L

This message was edited Nov 1, 2008 4:34 PM

Beautiful!

Woweeeeee, Twincol, you really have done wonders, your yard is really taking on the look you want, dont be so critical of how your doing things, your gonna end up beating yourself up all the way to next summer, what you show in the picture is the bare bones with not too much planting and colours, but this is always the look at the same stage as you are at, it is just terrific what you have achieved and just think, the best is yet to come.
I told you right way at the start that you had lots of backbreaking work to do before you would see any form of results, the problem now, is once you move onto the next stage, all this hard work will be hiden under carpets of colour, textures and shadows, so you are doing fab and a big pat on the back along with a hug to you,
Sorry I aint been on the forum to keep up with your progress but this is a wild time here for us, millions of tons of leaves to gather and scrape off our long driveway, it has been raining constantly so this makes the leaves slippy and they choke our land drains also, so it has been constant, just as you get it all cleared, more fall down and following day you look outside and wonder if you ever cleared anything, thankfully one of my suns had a lull at work and was able to come help us, the cold damp weather plays havoc with my back so it was good to get help for a few days. now emptied and refilled my greenhouse with most of the tender plants and re-potted most, got most of my spring bulbs in and some summer flowering lily's, too exhausted at night to get to the computer, but a good feeling, will be watching your progress better and cant wait for your next report. good luck and take good care. WeeNel.

Oh my, dear WeelNel, your weather sounds cranky! even if quietly so. I remember when contemplating our travel to England in Aug/Sep 2003 expecting rainy, autumn-like weather unlike that which we were leaving in the 90-100 degrees F (32-38 C) range. Well, my dear! It was sunny most all of the 21 days we were there, occasional overcast in the mornings, raining only one day as we walked about Portmerion, Wales. And did it rain . . . buckets, straight down in sheets, pouring (LOL). What a hoot that was. Now that was NOT a quiet cranky. I must remind myself that you folks are at a higher latitude than we are, which is easy for me to forget. I never forget the countries in the lower latitudes as suffering different weather than we do, but frequently forget that the northerners do -- heaven knows why it is I forget that. Hopefully you had some of the youngsters thereabouts to help you with some of the backbreaking work. And your grandkids? Last time we talked you were enjoying a visit.

So, OK, here I sit with no change since the above photo was posted, although I applied pre-emergent, which seems to have failed following our first rain. I'll be back out again soon with another pre-e probably this weekend. That said, I have, however, followed your direction to read, read, study, draw, study, read. I have several awesome UK garden planning books and web sites.

The Natl Trust Guide "Borders," by Penelope Hobhouse has helped my thinking about layering the outer section between the sidewalk and the fence.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Encyclopedia of Gardening (Denna Beverley and Barty Phillips) as an idea-generator and quick overview of the technical aspects of building/planting etc. It gets my creative juices flowing when I'm not willing to think deeply LOL. Moreover, it's delightful in its photos of British ideas which we may not think of here.

I have a significant number of other UK books, the titles escape me at the moment, which fill my creative mind as I work on my planning process.

Town Gardens, by Valeria Bradley, a US designer, has helped with thinking of very very small spaces, which has keeps my thinking small, as I often get off track by thinking larger than is reasonable in this space.

I've written of some of the web sites earlier and they are, of course, just out of this world. And, of course, Dave's Garden Web Site, you've heard of that one, haven't you? (chuckling)

I'm actually planning on planting the two small trees in the outer corners of the fence, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, as I have help available to do so and I really want to take advantage of the seasonal planting benefit. Given all I've read about British garden walls, I've decided unequivocally to use all Star Jasmine around the fence to present a unified background both inside and outside the wall. It will also help in selecting plants and layering plans.

My mother's needs have demanded considerable attention over the past month and all I've been able to muster in terms of emailing is briefer and less "intellectual" thought. Moreover, just last week it was determined that I have a hole in my retina and need surgery next week. I went in yesterday to talk to the surgeon and she was positive about the expected outcome. It seems I've lived with this little tear for several months, so there's no immediate rush. So, I'll be quiet next week as well. It seems we're on the same page, as it were, right? Taking care of ourselves. Your encouragement and ability to communicate planning orientation, WeelNel, has kept me on track. Thanks so much for that. Your thoughts and kindnesses remain in my mind as I contemplate and plan my garden.

Warmly,
Linda

PIC: will you look at the long'ole branch, one of three, having thrown itself off my 5 foot rose tree in the patio? Only three? How odd is that? The are 6, 7, and 8 feet (1.8-2.4 mm) long, respectively. They are just delightful in their responses to the breeze. And with little pink blossoms! So cute!

Aaaah, what a difference a season, makes, huh? You may recall earlier that the soil was dry and absent any kind of plant life. I spread pre-emergent late fall and the result you see in the attached pic. Is this UNBELIEVABLE or what? Clearly I must destroy the ground cover before continuing with my new ground cover and pavers and etc etc etc. What a mess!

However, what is not obvious as you look at the the weeds is that I had the Star Jasmine planted today. Two little plants per hole, times 12 holes, with an occasional Pink Jasmine strategically placed to soften the Star Jasmine fencing I expect to grow up here. The three little Pinkies will add some visual interest in the deep shade on both side of the house as they unexpectedly throw out their "clouds" of vines atop the heavy Star Jasmine, I hope. I also had some hosta bulbs placed on the west side of the house as underplanting to the existing azaleas, which have survived years of neglect. They deserve some buddies to lighten up the area.

Moreover, take a look at that arch I brought out from the back yard and planted over the walk approaching the house. I have two of them, a matching pair. The other I plan to plant at the end of fence as it approaches the patio gate, west side of the house. It fits perfectly at that spot. The one you see here, however, is a different matter and I planted it to travel around it for a bit and see if it's what I want to do. I plan to anchor the entry with climbing roses on each side, drifting along the fence away from the walk. Kind of like arms opening up in greeting, if that makes sense.

Now then, is the archway (??) too much? Note that I am standing in the middle of the street at 5 foot 10 inches tall (177(?) cm for my metric helpers) observing straight on to the walkway. The top of the arch interrupts the lower roof line visually. And with the roses moving up and over, adding to the height, hopefully it won't move up and over the top of the roofline. A passerby on foot will note the height, a car driving by will see even more, as eye level is at about 4 feet (10 cm). I've plant holes resting beside the archs, which are iron, BTW, with 4 X 4 inch (10 cm) squares to tie the branches to. Is that architecturally correct or acceptable? Frankly, I don't even know where to begin my thinking here. I mean, this is no "high-end" (pun intended) house, not large, as you can observe especially in the pic with my helper sitting on the porch.

Cruising through my David Austin cat last weekend and saw the Mortimer Sackler climber and I'm dazzled; see it at http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/63392/ Hmmm, a Knockout might be better? Easily receiving 8+ hours sun daily. This site requires a reliable plant.

It makes the best sense to place it inside the fence line, rather than outside. And it's too wide to center on the fence. And note that the pavers, a step up, will begin at the crack in the walk, at the fence line, at the edge of the arch. This feels right to me, which is why I ran the fence here.

Thoughts? Ideas? Wisdom?

Linda, pleased to be back at work on her front yard landscape!




Oh, and BTW . . . you should have seen the 17YO kid I have working with me. His father is a landscaper and he worked with his dad for many years as a youngster. He scooped up three large garbage cans full of weeds contaminated with the bermuda grass and seeds overlaid on the Fruitless Mulberry roots. You should've seen him as he worked with the planting. We'd dig a little hole for the bulbs and Star Jasmine plants, he would place the plantlet with the tiny roots, cover the roots, and then stand up and tap them gently with the toe of his sneaker . . . oh so gently. He has a wonderful respect for plant life which is wonderful to watch in such a young'n. It was so natural for him to do, not something you might expect a young man to do unless he'd done it regularly under close supervision and training. It was so sweet to watch. He'll be working with me closely over the next few months and I am very grateful to have the help.

Aaaah, and here's part of the leaf'n bermuda weed cleanup on the path leading to the front yard from the rear patio on the west side of the house. Most of the hostas were planted in the bed on your left here. A 3ft wide path of the clay pavers will adjoin the bed border you see. Three garbage cans full of cleanup. It would seem that it will only take another 3 cans to clean up the remainder on the outside of the fence.

I just kept thinking as my young man worked that there is no way I could have done the work myself and felt so grateful for his serious attitude toward the work he was doing.

I've one more pic I ran across as I moved these pics to my design catalogue on the hard drive. I simply must show it to you . . . I must! So, it's coming as well.

{{H}}

Linda

Check this little darling out! I want to add this to the landing somehow in front. Is s/he absolutely too cute or what? Perhaps a bit irreverent, but too precious to walk away from.

Linda

Hi Linda, I am just back on the site after a long time off over Christmas and before that too, your Garden is now turning into a masterpiece, you should be so proud of your hard work, tell that young kid he can come to my place anytime, hold onto him, if you get someone on the same wave length as you, they are worth their weight in gold.

Love you little lioness,or is it a he, anyway you should give him pride of place somewhere you just turn around and he is waiting to surprise you, around the plinth of this I would smother it with Lavender, cat mint or something tall but floppy, as you stop to say good day to him, you will be awakened with the most beautiful aroma, buy the way, if you want to speed up the that old garden look to him / her, you can paint the whole statue with Natural Yogurt, leave it alone and you will soon see the green algae ageing process start faster than years outdoors by nature, just an idea. please dont let anyone talk you into painting this with outdoor paint as it deserves the natural old age look for your type of garden scheme. So glad you have found and got pleasure from the garden books, I even go to bed so tired, but can still flick through the pages of my favourite garden books.
Stay in touch and let us all know ow the garden is getting transformed from a messy area to a garden worthy of Homes and garden. Good luck and best wishes. WeeNel.

Linda: thanks for linking this thread to the other one in California Gardening---what a journey! And what excellent help you've had along the way, both "live" and "virtual"!~
Looking forward to more photos & progress. I agree about the lion--s/he belongs in your design!!

Ditto, twincol - and I love that lion!!! Pretty sure it's a 'he' as the females don't have that much mane. Deserves a name, too. Can't wait to see future progress.

I think if he were mine, I'd name him for something to do with the Eagles (Lyin' Eyes)...LOL!

lol ima

the fence is magnificent, and I love how you described your 17 yo helper, he sounds wonderful!

Thanks for the hyperlinks, they explain a lot as do your photos. I think you are well on your way to achieving your goal. I've learned a lot from reading the posts and hyperlinks. ^_^
WIB,
SW