BIRD FILES!!

Yes I think the same format as Plant Files and Bug Files would be the best. Then if a mis-identified bird is posted, someone who spots it can report it and have the entry moved. I also think that photographs rather than prints is the way to go, pretty much all of us have access to a camera, and again that fits in with the other Files on DG. I'm really looking forward to this!

I think photos would be best too. There are regional differences in birds that are over a wide area of the country. Photos from different regions would be able to show those differences better than prints.

Please let me clarify.

I did not say we should not have pictures. I just meant that the main picture would be better as a color print showing all ID marks which most photos would lack. If thats not possible than thats fine.

nanny makes a great point. A classic example would be the difference in
Red-tailed Hawks in different areas of the country. :-)

edited for spelling

This message was edited May 7, 2008 9:43 AM

An illustration can give an example of 2 birds while only emphasizing a certain distinctive characteristic. In other words it can establish a norm for the bird and then emphasize a variant which is indicative of species differentiation. Whereas in a photo each individual bird has individual quality which may mistaken for an identifying quality.

Presumably the illustration would involve the collaboration/ permission of an illustrator and/or publisher. The illustrations would be most effective if it were standardized by only having the illustrations of a specific illustrator so as to not vary the aesthetic techniques. Which artist would be chosen? It poses some interesting issues… ☺

I'd say anyone with artistic ability should be able to try and get their work published.
Just like refusing a bad photo the Mods could refuse a poorly illustrated bird.
This is something I'd be interested in contributing to.
Not as a job mind you, just as a "when I find the time" basis.
Would be an honor to help DGers out as much as they have helped me.
Might even sell the originals in our new auction!

Awesome crimsontsavo, the originals as well as the artist would get international attention adding value to the illustrations, along with photos submitted by DG'ers it could evolve into a very good & accurate database!

... Interesting possibilities! ☺

Is getting excited. LOL.

sre, thought it was brainstorming... ☺

Definitely brainstorming too, lol.

pssst, mods don't refuse bad photos ^_^

:-O REALLY???

Out of focus shots are declined if there is at least one good shot of the subject that is already posted.

Okay, that's what I was thinking.
Wonder how that would effect bad illustrations.
Guess it wouldn't matter, people could pick the best ones to look at like we do the photographs.
That way no one gets hurt?

Personally I think if we're going to have illustrations submitted, the whole point of having those instead of a photo is that they can be very accurate and have all the distinguishing marks, etc. I wouldn't want to see those included if they weren't accurate, so I'd like to see a bit tougher screening criteria than what we'd have for photos.

Well yea, wouldn't be a problem on my end to add the right markings. Maybe for some it would though.
I dunno, it's up to dave in the end, just tossing ideas out there. ^_^

I think people would need to submit an example of their work and show their abilities to be considered to do the illustrations job. I am sure Dave would have some process for that.

This message was edited May 9, 2008 4:10 PM

I'd say so.
I think I may do one and get a jump start on it LOL.
This is something that would be very very neat to be a part of.

I too hope that Dave will set very high accuracy standards for any illustrations.
Otherwise they would be pointless. There can always be a thread for "pretty
sketches of birds" but I would be looking for accuracy in the Bird Forum.

I wouldn't have illustrations instead of a photo. I'd have an illustration in addition to photos. ☺

I think that's the idea, I don't think anyone was suggesting getting rid of photos, just that having an accurate illustration of the birds would be helpful in addition to the photos.

What I'm wondering is how to represent habitat zone like USDA zone for plants?

Yea, definitely keep the photos.
That would take some thinking growin.

I'm thinking that BirdFiles would be modeled more like BugFiles, rather than like PlantFiles. There would be only Family, Genus, Species, Common name, Comments and Photos.

Joan, you're probably right. That would keep it pretty simple, in a good way lol.

I would like to see Order, Family, Genus, Species as in BugGiles, it then becomes more easily paralleled in mammals, reptiles and amphibians if not at the same time, sometime later

Instead of zones for a bird's location the system could have a "seen in this area" feature and people could type in their State, Province, or Country, etc...

Hi growin, Are you talking about a Range Map for each species? That would definitely be needed for each one along w/ a description of preferred habitat such as pine forests etc.

I would like to see this as user friendly (simple ^_^ ) as possible for people who are brand new to birding. Each page could contain the information of family and genus near the top of each page.

I also think having a search by Taxanomic and Alphabetical order would make it easier.

I still would like to see the feature of "Compare Two Birds".

There needs to be seasonal range maps for migratory birds, or some sort of equivalent.

I think the ideas of "seen in this area", and "compare two birds" are excellent ideas for people like me who love to bird watch, but don't have the knowledge as many of you who have been at this for a long time.

Maybe something like this, only I'd include a detail of outspread wings,feet..etc. Possibly different poses.
It isn't finished but I needed some sleep. lol.

American Redstart on Colorado Blue Spruce.

Wow that's a nice illustration!

Thank you very much!

ROFL....
Every time I see BIRD FILES.... my mind keeps seeing BIRD FLIES!

I have seen the words "bird files" so much on this thread I thought it was there already. I was on a thread the other day and someone was trying to ID a bird, and I clicked to home and was looking for the shortcut!!! LOL!
Maybe some day!

This message was edited May 16, 2008 8:44 PM

gabagoo - I kept thinking/seeing the same thing! I thought it was just me.

LOL, growin!
Glad I'm not the only one!

Don't worry, I think it's on Dave's to-do list, but the marketplace is taking up a lot of his time in the near future so we need to be patient!

Any progress on this?

Audobon files would be nice and refreshing.

"eyes"

I really look forward to Bird Files! I have a book on Florida Birds and really enjoy looking up and reading about birds I see in my backyard. But I also enjoy reading and learning about birds in other areas too.

My Florida Bird book is really an easy read. It shows a color illustration of each bird along with info such as:

Family: Troglodytidae: Wrens
House Wren (Thryothorus aedon)
Length 5 in (13 cm) Weight 0.4 oz (0.01 kg)
Other names: Eastern House Wren, Jenny Wren
Description: Brown underparts with fine barring on wings and tail, grayish-white below
Habitat: Xeric scrub; mesic hammocks; mixed pine and hardwood forests; urban environments; pine flatwoods; sandhills
Range: Statewide

Then it has a paragraph with a bit more description of coloration and info about habitat as well description of their call and their diet.

I hope Bird Files will show a color illustration and then an area where people can upload photo's of the particular bird just like we do in Plant Files.