New Groups Possible??

I am a breeder, collector and all around mad scientist when it comes to my plants. I am interested in getting a group for similar discussions on topics like Tissue culture and Polyploid conversion or chemical or environmental mutations as well as genetically modified plants. I am sure their are others doing similar work and with a group dealing in this it could be easier to discuss results and techniques.
I think a group for breeders maybe interesting as well. I am not sure if you can combine them all or if they would be to large that they would need to be separated, But these are some subject I am looking for. THANKS

Oooh ... the forum could be called DG Mad Scientist's! LOL. I bet there are a lot of folks out there in the garden who would be interested in a forum of this sort. All of that stuff is waaaay over my head but I would probably lurk once in awhile! Great idea for a new forum!

I think a breeders forum is a good idea if there are enough of you out there.

heeheehee... snort...

(I was being serious.)

Sounds like Brian could make more, if there's not enough.

In addition to the GM plants, if he is willing to include Dodge and Toyota, he's got my vote. Though he's taking a big risk - Ford pretty much owns Louisville.

Time to bust out the gibberillins and colchicine...

Sounds interesting to me!! Although I'm not very knowledgeable about it. I understand tissue culture and environmental mutations. You can explain the rest to me on the new forum!

Yes, this sounds like a good one.

I'm be interested in a breeders forum. I've been playing with lilies and irises for several years now. At this time I'm not into tissue/embryo culture but perhaps sometime down the road. I'm always trying to learn more so I don't waste time and space on useless crosses.

Good to see so many interested. I find that some of the information is very technical and a bit over my head personally. I would like to get answers myself to certain tech questions and also help others who maybe following a similar path. The truth on this maybe most of these experiments may never have been tried so we may be helping each other discover new info on plant breeding and mutations which could lead to very interesting new plants or breeding techniques.
Just today I read a article were a Russian cross breed a radish with a cabbage this was thought to be impossible, but the hybrid was possible due to doubling the chromosomes. Once the chromosomes matched this new hybrid was made. It was found that the hybrid could not cross back with its parents but could cross with itself. Producing a first man made species. If this is possible I believe that many others similar are possible.

I would like to see such a forum. I only dab daylilies now, the old fashioned way. I would like to be able to reliably change ploidy at will.

There is currently a lot of confusion and fear of GMOs and I would like the subject thoroughly explored here by laymen like myself as well as more knowledgeable folks just so I can feel somewhat educated. When I was in school it was definitely scifi and all of a sudden the future is now.

I'd definitely read this forum.

I would be "in" - I try my hand at what I can and I keep trying to do more!

Me too!

This is definitely not a topic that fits readily into any of the existing forums, except maybe propagation... Would it be possible to have these discussions as threads on the Propagation Forum, do you think, or is it necessary to split them off into their own forum?

I think it should be separate from propagation. Some techniques propagate but others change the plant. I'm interested in learning.

Yep... we might get some of those folks a little upset with the stuff that can be done.

I was not sure how many people would be interested. I would think this topic is more for the extreme gardeners and breeders who are trying to learn how to breed certain things into their plants or use experiments to manipulate the plants they have. I don't think it would appeal to everyone but the ones who do participate would probably have a ton of questions and a ton of responses. I find that a lot of what I have been doing has to be documented if I intend to help others do similar things just because their is not that much information on the subject or in a lot of cases the people who do know how to make it work usually do not share their secrets with others. If their was just a handful in the group that are as crazy and dedicated as I am, it would be a very interesting forum. I hope it to be a mix of science plant breeding either way I think it should be separate from any of the other forums. I find the propagating forum usually deals with cuttings and seed growing and rarely talk of tissue culture or changing the genetics of plants. Who knows though maybe it could somehow be added on either way I would participate in the forum.

I think that breeding and causing mutations in plants or even polyploid conversion is not going to effect people that much sense these are all found in nature and are already all around us. The topic that I find which usually gets people heated is the talk of GM plants. I have to say I find them extremely interesting in that their is so much potential in what could be done. The thing that scares me with them is not really the fact that the plant has DNA from other organisms but the fact that it can pass them on to it's offspring and even hybridize and passing on these certain genes. I recently heard of a new term which I am sure we will hear more of and that is Genetic pollution. It's a good topic to discuss on any forum.

That's a good point... the topic may be related to propagation, but it's not likely to be of much general interest, and you could end up with a lot of confused questions o objections on the thread, which are really beside the point.

bwilliams, I think that discussing "genetic pollution" pro's and con's may be similar to debating global warming issues... tantamount to the sort of controversial discussions of current events that violate the AUP. I think this sort of forum should be for discussing techniques, not debating whether GM is "right" or "wrong."

right - we dont want fights over it or people really lost at what we are doing or trying to learn how to do.

I would love to see a forum for plant breeding and tissue culture, etc. I've never done it, and I probably never will, but I sure enjoy hearing about others doing it and learning from them. I do agree that it needs to be a separate forum as there is nowhere else on DG to discuss this topic.

My input would probably consist of asking questions. LOL.


Karen

I'd be interested in this as well. I'm a hybridizer of Tall Bearded Irises. My first introductions came out just last year, in 2007.

Some of the work I do - is working with crosses of diploids x tetraploids. Results have been successful to the point of getting seedpods with seeds. Problem at this point is getting them to germinate.

Chemical and environmental mutations fascinate me! Mutations of any sort actually. :-) One of the irises (a tretraploid) I've just introduced has a ((possibly) environmental)) mutation exhibiting a 4-4-4 factor on the terminal bud only. (Irises consist of 3-3-3) Less than a handful of these exist in the iris world in the IB, TB varieties.

Also, *** I'd love to be able to introduce a TRUE red Iris. Since irises do NOT naturally have a true red pigment within it's genetic pool, chances are it may have to come about by a mutation of some kind or another.

I am not a plant geneticist, just someone who would love to introduce to the world - a truly red iris. A Breeders/hybridizers forum dedicated to (preferably safe) mutation techniques would certainly be a "one of a kind" forum - - - and a most valuable tool!

Please Dave.................Consider a forum for this. :-)

~Margie

I don't know if I'd do more than lurk in this forum, but I'd be fascinated by the discussions...

I've been 'looking' for you all day to say "Happy Birthday Critterologist", hope you've had a wonderful day!

Thanks, Angele! :-)

I hope that this forum will be possible. I have started to clean my seeds for the experiments that will be conducted in the next few months. I plan to take the seeds through a number of experiments. Most of these seeds are unknown hybrids or just picked off of the plants for the last two years. I have many other controlled hybrieds that will be grown out normally but these here will be used in my experiments to hopefully create mutations, variegations, tetraploids and chimera effects to the plants.
Here is a pic of the freshly cleaned new test subjects.

They look great - wish I had that many seeds to be able to play like that. Then again I am always stunned at the things you have come up with on here and want to learn more about the pink and red gene in leaves.

I hope Admin goes with this as a totally new forum! I have no interest in doing any of this myself but sure would love reading and learning about it!

I would love to see a breeder/hybridizer forum.

I enjoy a fairly simple approach to hybridizing. Making crosses from plants that I feel may produce some nice offspring.

I thoroughly enjoy reading articles about plant genetics, tissue culture, and molecular level lab stuff. Not that I will ever participate, but I certainly enjoy reading about it.

I will post all, (well most) of my seedling photos. I will share growing info and techniques, and pass along any useful bit of info that I have picked up along the way. I will eagely read what others are saying... knowing that much can be learned on a forum such as this.

C'mon Dave... this will be great. Thanks for considering it. Dan

This message was edited Feb 22, 2008 3:50 PM

I play with beardless iris, Dianthus and Rhododendrons, so a breeders forum sounds good to me!

I do extremely wide crosses between species and established cultivars in iris and just started into Daylilies I would like to see a hybridizer forum just for the information of those with more experience than i could impart

I am a novice gardener with a keen interest in the scientific side of plants. I have little to no knowledge of this and would love to see a forum dedicated to it. I know I would have many questions and would possibly attempt this down the road. Just reading Margie's post lost me. I would hope it would contain explainations of such terms, so we newbies could grasp the concept. LOL.

Traci

I would also be interested in a "Hybridizer's corner"...

I'd love to learn more about crossing all types of plants. Been doing daylilies for years, but have a friend that crosses oaks, magnolias, hellebores, hardy cyclamen, iris, you name it... he crosses it.

Hybridizing is one of the most rewarding things about having plants!

Hi all,

I am also a breeder/hybridizer. I specialize in zinnias, and have posted message threads on that subject over in the Annuals forum.

So, yes, I would be interested in a dedicated breeder/hybridizer forum. As you all know, a good deal of breeding can be done without any hybridizing, simply by repeated selection of seeds from better specimens. So we wouldn't want to exclude those folks who don't do cross pollination. But hybridizing adds a new dimension to the activity, and I do both extensively. And of course, such advanced activities as tissue culture and chromosome doubling shouldn't be excluded either. Anyone with an interest in the general subject area should be welcome, whether they are practicing or just interested.

MM

I think it would be fun to learn about things like this--I've never done anything like this, but would definitely be interested to hear what others are doing.

Bwilliams,

"Just today I read a article were a Russian cross breed a radish with a cabbage this was thought to be impossible, but the hybrid was possible due to doubling the chromosomes. Once the chromosomes matched this new hybrid was made. It was found that the hybrid could not cross back with its parents but could cross with itself. Producing a first man made species. "

That's very interesting. However, that is probably not the first man-made new species. The W. Atlee Burpee company made interspecific crosses between Zinnia angustifolia and Zinnia violacea (formerly called Zinnia elegans) followed by chromosome doubling to create the Pinwheel series of zinnias, beginning with Rose Pinwheel in 1987. A bit later, in 1999, the Japanese firm, Sakata, began the Profusion series of zinnias from the same type of interspecific crosses followed by chromosome doubling.

The chromosome doubling is necessary because Zinnia angustifolia has 22 chromosomes, while Zinnia violacea has 24 chromosomes, and the cross has 23 chromosomes. That interspecific cross is almost always infertile, because of the odd chromosome number. However, by treating the infertile hybrids with colchicine, their chromosome number was doubled to 46 chromosomes and many of those were true breeding and fertile.

The mildew-resistant Pinwheel and Profusion zinnias are actually a true-breeding 46-chromosome new species of zinnia, called Zinnia marylandica (in honor of the University of Maryland, where much of the key research leading to the success of this approach was done.)

Even though it has been more than 20 years since the Zinnia marylandica species was created, I doubt that it was first either. The technique of making a sterile interspecific hybrid fertile by chromosome doubling has been used for quite some time. The new species that are created by that technique are called amphiploids.

MM

Extremely interesting and just the stuff I want to see on a forum like this. I am currently trying to breed cannas and have been working with possible tetraploids and maybe some triploids. It seems the tetraploids have fertile pollen but all female regions are sterile. I was able to get a few seeds off a few that were considered impossible or sterile for years and hopefully this year I will be able to sprout them and see what they are. I also plan to use polyploid conversion to double the chromosomes to get more fertile forms. I have seen many great things from breeding but I literally am astonished at the work done in daylilies. If I can only get more of those results in my breeding I would be ecstatic. I am not yet sure why the female section is not producing in my work compared to the tetraploids in daylilies? Hopefully I can change some of that in the next few seasons.

MM,

What did the radish/cabbage look like?

Terry,

We need this forum. It's a fascinating subject not addressed elsewhere on DG. It's also a subject that can't really be discussed in depth in other forums because of the need for those interested to be able to post in the same forum/threads.

Karen

I'd be very interested in this type of forum as well. I've been hybridizing daylilies for about 4 years and am very interested in the subject.

Karen,

"What did the radish/cabbage look like?"

It had a terrible expression on its face and it was begging, "Kill me, kill me." Just kidding. I have seen too many science fiction movies. I have no idea what it looked like. That radish/cabbage hybrid was referred to by bwilliams on February 18, 2008 1:15 AM in Post #4553915 and I never saw the article.

Perhaps bwilliams can provide more info about the article that described how a Russian crossed a radish with a cabbage.

MM