Some enhancements to the tab navigation

I like the new navigation. I do agree with others, however, that the nav box just feels better on the right. My eyes like to read left to right and the box breaks up the flow when on the left. Perhaps you can make that the default as it seems as though the majority prefer it that way?

Great job as always!!

so easy to change it oneself in preferences....I say leave everything as it is for a week and then let it just sort of adjust itself.....see above "grocery store isles"....

I agree with dstartz, if you could possibly make sticky the threads you really want feedback on would be a great help to those of us who, like me just glance at that part of the site a couple times a month. At least if town council is planning a major change to something it's usually headline news so no one misses it. :)

I personally don't like it, wish I could disable it, but, since I didn't participate in the discussion that will be all I say about it.

You can't please everyone all of the time!!

I feel your pain Dave!

Take Care,
Donna

I agree with LouC. Also I am nobodys grandmother, but old enough to be one.

Thanks for the vision, Dave.

I really HATE that box thing on the page, it is intrusive and annoying. The drop down box would be a better option. I see from the posts already made that this was one of those discussions that I missed and as such I am probably too late with my opinion. Dave, I know how hard you work on this site and REALLY appreciate all that you do for us. Please do not read this as whining or being hateful or angry. You have always had an "open door" policy here and so I felt safe in expressing what I thought.

Dave, I thought you got quite a lot of feedback in that first thread. Both negative and positive. And to be fair, you posted the screenshots on Friday and made the change on Monday. Lots of folks are busy on weekends.

I think this is the first change you've made which I haven't liked much. But I'll get used to it. In a day or two. I'll love it eventually. You're still the best.

Dave, cudos to you, and your innovation. I know that you had plenty of feedback, and I looked and didn't post. So therefore, I feel about this, as I feel about voting. You have that right and priviledge to express your concerns, and IF YOU DON'T VOTE, DON'T COMPLAIN. Now, with that said, I am a happy camper, and can't wait to see the next changes you have in mind.

Dear Dave,

I like the cleaner look a lot. I love the idea of drop-down boxes and no lost real estate. I do like the sticky idea too.

I'm usually so busy on my favorite fora, I don't wander over to the town hall much. In the past I've missed discussions re: planned changes that I felt strongly about. Thanks for changing the HB/BF forum name back for us after the fact. I didn't participate this time because I didn't feel I added anything to the last Beta I signed up for. I was still trying to visualize long range outcomes of proposed changes when it was done.

In the future I promise to participate in Betas. I too believe no vote, no complaint. Mea Culpa and thanks for always improving things.

Maggie

I think the new navigation is clean, simple and self explanatory. I, too, am a happy camper. As I am an old dog who sometimes has trouble with new tricks, this is all good for me. My biggest leap is going from the word "diary" to "blog". So well done Dave and Thanks again . Patti

I agree with some of the ideas here. If you don't draw attention to the "improvements that are coming", say by auto-watching it for me, I don't know it's coming. I don't have "Look at the DG forum for improvements" on my list of things to do. I read back, and you did get a lot of feedback - and from what I'm seeing there were a fair share of negatives. If the changes were suggested Friday & set up over the weekend, like someone else suggested, then you did miss out on quite a few folks. I don't usually visit weekends, with the exception of maybe once or twice for a brief peek.

It's fine now that it's out of the way to the right. The left box was annoying - I'm left-handed, and right-minded. If stuff I need to care about isn't on the left of the screen, the arrangement will look cluttered to me. Drop-downs would be easier than the box.

Edit to add: Don't see where the auto-follow came up for discussion prior to the change (then change back), but my vote is it stays as-is. Please don't put the auto-follow on. We can scroll to the top or hit "Ctrl + Home" to get around. I find auto-follows pestering & distracting from what I'm trying to read.

This message was edited Aug 14, 2007 6:43 AM

I can understand your frustration, Dave, but I'm with the others that missed your previous discussion. At the time, I was on holidays and using Internet cafes; so very much limited my Internet time to checking home email and taking a quick peek at the forums I frequent most. A sticky or D-mail to all when you really need feedback on something would be most helpful in calling our attention to it.

As several have mentioned above (and I did yesterday on a different thread), I'm happy now that the Communities box has been moved to the right side. Thanks for all you do.

Ann

For what is worth I like the changes. They encourage me to poke around and discover areas or options I might not have know were available.

But - there is always a but

Just a tiny one, I do feel the navigation box is too large causing lots of empty space on the entire thread and forcing everything to the right.

Keep up the good work! I think if DG wasn't evolving that would mean Dave was off making some other website better and better. ☺

-Kim

Angelsong, quote "We can scroll to the top or hit "Ctrl + Home" to get around".

I wonder how many people are not aware of the link at the bottom, under the last post, which says:

Back to the top of this thread

It took me a while to realise it was there after subscribing, as well as the 'skip to new' button at the top! I used to scroll too!

Wallaby1, LOL I've been here just over a year and although I saw them I didn't really "get" it. Thans for pointing out those two features. I will be using them alot. Some of these threads get pretty long and the "sip to new" will really be handy. Daves changes are getting me looing around a little more

I too have been on holidays and have only poked my head in here a few times, so missed this discussion. Having read the posts, I wonder if there could be a little navigating icon in the lower right-hand corner of the 'identification' box which appears beside each posting; clicking on it would produce a pop-up box with the options that now appear at the top of the thread, including 'back to the top of this thread', 'skip to end' to allow for writing a reply, 'mark this spot' so you can return to that message while in the thread... just some thoughts.

HollyAnn, I think once we have mastered the basics which suit us we slip comfortably into using what we know, as it was a large site to get around in the first place!

Dave's changes certainly are making our brain cogs turn over, I think that's good?

Although there's supposed to be drop down boxes from the top tabs soon to make it easier to get from the Home page, notice the box at the top left which every one wants on the right or left, according to what side the brain works on. Notice the Forums at the top? It's not just a heading, it takes you to the whole page of Forums!

I have also noticed when I look at My Info page, if checking my own pics there in Bug Files for example, there is a box at the side giving direct access to the BugFiles page!

I also think the direct links in that box at the side to peoples Tradelists, listed by the last updated, is a wonderful addition, I was encouraged to take a peek although I don't currently have a Tradeslist. The way the Trades lists are organised and linked to PlantFiles must be the best system for people to trade in the world!

Dave, one thing which I noticed was someone getting confused over how to find the Seed and Plant Trading Forums, using the Member link in the top box instead and getting lost. Could an extra word or two be added to that, e.g. Members Plant & Seed Trading Lists?

Also, to inspire people to realise the Forums link actually takes people to the whole page of Forums, something added to the title, maybe Complete Forums List which doesn't sound quite right, but I'm sure someone can think of something appropriate? All Forums perhaps?

First, let me say that I appreciate everything you do, Dave. I know it must be an enormous job to keep this site rolling along smoothly like you do, so whether I like or dislike what you do, I appreciate it all very much. :o)

But... I don't like the new changes at all. I participated in the beta test over the weekend, and sent a couple suggestions to Dave. He has implemented those changes (I'm certain I'm not the only person who asked for those specific changes), and that made it better, but I still don't like it. Everything is too generalized and too spread out; there's no easy way to get to the specific place I want to be. Before, my homepage felt like, well, home, with all the things I liked right around me and easily accessible. Now, it feels like I'm in the middle of a huge mall and I have to travel to get to what I want.

In particular, I'm really mourning the loss of the PlantFiles tab. That is one of the main features of this site, and the reason I subscribed in the first place, and it's hidden behind a bunch of tabs and menus, not easy to get to at all. In my opinion, if nothing else deserves its own tab, PlantFiles certainly does. I put the custom menu back on my homepage with the PF search, but now that doesn't work. I just don't like it.

The menu at the right is redundant and unnecessary to me, particularly within an individual thread. I know someone else mentioned this above, but I have to add my agreement. It gives a link back to the forum - that's already at the very top of the thread, or if you're in the middle of the thread, just click the Back button. I don't have a blog and I don't use my journal much, but even if I did, I don't think I'd need a link directly there from a thread. As well, it doesn't take me to my own blog or journal, it takes me to a list of everyone's blogs or journals, and there's not even a link on that page to my own blog or journal. I don't see the relevance of the Plant and Seed Trading or Member List links from an individual thread. If someone mentions they want a plant I have or have a plant I want, I'll click their name and dmail them or access their trade list from their member page. Home has a tab of its own at the top. Since the menu doesn't auto-follow anymore, if you can see the menu box, you can see the Home tab, so the link is redundant. I can deal with the idea of the menu box on a main forum page, but it takes up space unnecessarily within a thread, I think.

I don't mean to be complaining, honestly I don't. I fully understand the need for change, I simply don't like the form the change has taken. I can't remember if I participated in the original request for feedback or not. I read it, but couldn't visualize how the changes would affect the site, so I probably didn't. Now that I see it, I have lots of feedback on the tabs that are there. For instance, I think the My Tools tab is completely unneeded. With text links to our own blog, journal, and trade tracker added to the "Your Actions" box of our member pages, that entire category would be unnecessary, as the rest of it is already there. That frees up a whole tab space (which could be replaced with PlantFiles! LOL). I guess I'm simply saying, I couldn't see in my mind what was coming with the changes, or I would have had a lot more to say in the planning stages.

I don't like the box either. I is so large that I have to shift the screen to read the posts. I like Andy's idea about using an icon to bring up the box. If you are going to retain the distraction,at least make it smaller,much smaller.

Well, I didn't like it for a start either! But once I realised the way it links intuitively to what the site is about, that is people and what they are doing or have to trade, with direct access to the Forums page, what could be wrong with that?

Give yourselves a little more time to look around and 'discover'. We do get set in what we feel is comfortable, but that does not take us forward.

I've read all this feedback - thank you!

This morning I enhanced the "Plant and Seed Trading" area under the Community tab to try to make it a little more understandable.

A lot of people are mourning the loss of a quick and easy "one link access" to the features from the DG homepage. For a solution, I'm going to program a "Quick Links" box that you can add to your homepage. That box will then be customizable to include whatever links you want, in whatever order you want them. I think that should greatly help your experience.

best,
dave

That sounds fabulous, Dave! Thank you so much!

I might whine and complain, but I never forget that you're doing your best to achieve the impossible - please the masses! I really do appreciate all you do, and like I said before, there's not a change you could make that would run me off. :o) I'll get used to whatever you decide is best for the community as a whole.

Thanks again, Dave! :o)

Dave, that sounds like a GREAT idea! Thanks.

Please refer to post # 3853818.

Or....since it's easier for everyone to have a hyperlink: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3853818

Thank you, Terry. Just trying to reiterate that my thoughts have not changed even after reading all of the input. I love all these guys and am glad that Dave allows us to have our own ideas. Still in favor of administration doing "their thang".

Just a reminder to those who may have missed it. You can move the navigation box from the left side to the right side then you don't have to scroll across to read the posts and it maes the screen much nicer.

"Moving it to the right helps, not sure why it would make a difference, but visually it's night and day.
click: My tools (on top), Preferences (box), Navigation- drop down menu- right side"

Dave,

I wrote this in a private d-mail to you, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same about:

- the purple color in the d-mail area and the blue in the forums area. For me these colors are like nails on a chalk board. You have such beautiful colors in the header pictures. Can't the colors for the header bar be taken from that palette instead?

- the blocky font in the tabs. The rest of the page looks 'thin' and refined were as the font in the tabs looks coarse by comparison.

And something I just realized, the 'drop down menu' under forums in the side box lists the same link that is available to us in the the threads header.

I didn't know it was broke, so it bothers me that you fixed it.

I'll get used to it but it's made me grouchy for at least today.

Hey people, this is being so overly picked apart. It is logical that changes are sometimes jarring to all of us, but in order to grow and add features it is necessary for Dave to make changes. I personally just care about the facts, services and the people that I now cherish that I have met on DG. I love good graphics and computer layout and I don't see that there is a problem with anything that has been done to date other than it might not be my taste in color or fonts or layout. But, my name ain't Dave. And I am just daily thrilled to be just a click away from some of the most beautiful gardens and advice from some very talented and sharing new gardening friends all thanks to Dave. And I do. Patti

I'm with you Patti - bbrookrd.

I have spent the last 3 years beta-testing custom software at my job, so I certainly can critique something to death if need be. But Dave's Garden is absolutely TOPS when it comes to features and design! Most of the changes I like, sometimes I might find something I don't like as much. But I've also learned in my job that it is IMPOSSIBLE to please all the users. If anyone can come close to that impossibility it would be Dave. To say he's a computer genius would be an understatement!!

Dave, I said this above but I'll say it again just because I really think it might greatly reduce the negative feedback. The difference between the nav box on the left and nav box on the right is pretty drastic. I think it's worth changing the default to have it automatically display on the right. I realize it can be changed in preferences easily enough, but from my experience, I'd be willing to bet that at least half the members don't realize they can change preferences, and most who visit this thread will not read all the posts to find the several comments that suggest they try this.

i absolutely love the new format! i had to go to "my computer settings" and do some adjusting so that everything fit on my screen properly and then i also adjusted the text size. thanks! it's great.........and just when i thought it couldn't get any better..........

Hey, anybody notice the new icon for Flickr at the bottom right hand corner? Let's check it out.....

Hi Dave,
No criticism but perhaps a suggestion for the future if you're looking for input. I don't usually come to this forum unless I see a problem like right now I can't find the link for Plant Files. In order to attract more input from people like myself who don't frequent here, is it possible to put a large banner type box on the home page to notify people of pending considerations/changes? Make it bold and border in red stars or something to attract attention?

Now for the criticism (constructive, of course) LOL. I don't care for the scrunched up columns you get by using up 2 inches of left margin with dead space (I know you said the box was intended to move down the page. Personally, I rarely use any of those links you put in the box so I can't speak for it's purpose in being there.

The left margin can easily be changed to appear on the right, where it is barely noticeable. Go to My Info, then to Manage My Preferences and choose Right on the navigation.

This is a huge and complex web site with a very large membership. I know of no other site in the universe that offers such personalized service in an effort to meet members' needs and wants. You'll never see Google or Yahoo asking anyone for input on how they think things should be. It's their way or the highway.

Evolving, maintaining and upgrading a site like this is a challenging programming process, and it takes skill, time and money to do it. My hat is off to Dave for all that he offers and for the efforts he makes, way beyond reasonable expectations, to keep everyone satisfied. It's extraordinary in these times to get such personal attention and prompt responses to questions from a real, live person.

Thank you, Dave. I'm appreciative of all that you do and know that many others are as well. You are truly a treasure.

June

Will everyone also please keep in mind that Dave is doing his darndest to keep this site friendly for older pcs and dial-ups, but he would be a fool to ignore features, design, and programming that keep the site attractive to everybody? It is a business, after all, and he needs to attract new users. I'm sure when everything is said and done, it will be even more wonderful.

Dave, I love the purple and I love little surprises like that when I switch from one area to another on DG - like the poppies on the CA forum. Keeps things lively. :-)

Would anyone please tell me of another site that you have any input how it is programmed? Dave is very considerate to even ask your opinion or input. Please remember he is looking at the big picture down the road. We are only at able to see a small part of what is to come. There is noway everyone is going to love the changes. Change is usually necessary for growth. I am as guilty as anyone about not wanting to change things when they are comfortable. It is not hard to learn a new way to navigate. thanks Dave for even asking. Cindy

Dave,
I have the navigation box on the right, but it's not moving. Well, at least it's not moving on this page. Haven't checked the others. I must be doing something wrong but have pushed refresh.
Thanks,
carol

Dave said in an earlier post that he has disengaged that feature.