Where to Plant Flowering trees

So its actually a shrub? Hmmm....well, if you kept up on pulling the suckers, do you think it could be kept under control?

So, I'm pretty sure about all of them except the last....I'm really not seeing how it is remotely close to washington hawthorn unless the leaves shape changes as they get bigger. What does everyone else think? Can we definately say its a hawthorn?

This one is the one that looks like the hawthorn to me http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3743701
And the last one http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3743724 looks more like a crabapple

Well, I looked at them again today, and ecrane, the one you think looks like a hawthorn I noticed the tops of the stems are green and soft and fuzzy...the leaves are even a little fuzzy. The one you think looks like a crabapple has leaves that kind of curl inward...the first one doesn't. Also, the stems on the last one are more of reddish brown....I don't know if this helps anyone......

Kristie

Hawthorn (Crataegus spp.) and crabapple (Malus spp.) are very closely related species -- they are both members of the family Rosaceae. Easier to tell apart when more mature (especially when flowering, in fruit, when thorns show up, or when some pest strikes), these are sometimes hard to tell apart in their youth. Add to that the fact that you may have gotten some mixed up plants to start with (!) and you may be fighting an unnecessary ID battle.

Let the plants grow out some more, and continue to document their progress. Note differences in the buds that will be set at the base of each leaf, and photo them as they become obvious. Watch for the development of thorns on new growth. See if new leaves show any preference for being lobed or unlobed.

One difficulty with comparing leaf shapes is that young fresh vigorous foliage on new stem growth often has a different morphology than the first leaves to break dormancy in the spring. Isn't that fun? Sargent crabapple foliage is often somewhat lobed, which may make it confusing to separate from Washington hawthorn.

Your set of photos so far has been pretty good. If you still have the fire and determination to pursue this, collect and photo leaves (top and bottom, laying them on a neutral background like sheet of cardboard, bedsheet, or even a concrete surface) with as closeup as you can zoom and showing the whole leaf. Same with twigs, showing the whole stem and then zoom in on the buds. Make sure you get shots of the very tips of the new stems at the end of the season, too.

Then, when you come back to this forum (or others here at DG) or when reading text with ID jargon sprinkled in it (like pubescent, glabrous, serrate, or entire), you'll have good images to look back at to see what the heck all this means. Use the excellent resources already here to help you (these bold terms can be easily referenced in the Glossary).

Don't despair if these aren't instantly positively ID'd. Cruise by the Plant ID forum at your leisure and see some of the banter there amongst "crusty" veteran plantspeople, and you'll see that it isn't always cut-and-dry.

Lastly, enjoy. Know that it is always an education, never a set piece. Recognize that people and vendors can make mistakes. Learn from that -- go forth and be fruitful.

You have the right plants for that.

Well, here's an update. I'm pretty sure of the crabapple and the rose of sharon. One of the trees died over the winter, which only leaves me with one that I'm unsure of the id. The last two pictures I had posted are of my mystery tree. They have grown quite a bit, I'd estimate they're 7-8 foot tall now. They have grown much more rapidly than the crabapples. I have noticed that the crabapples are being devoured by japanese beetles. This mystery tree doesn't seem to be affected by them and looks really healthy. I still can't post new pics of this tree, but I was posting because I've noticed the bark on the mystery tree is very smooth, shiny, and has little dots or speckles on it. It is very pretty. The crabapple seems to grow clumps of leaves off the main stems. The mystery tree has main stems that then have other branches shooting off with leaves on them. I've noticed that these branches have new growth on the end. I have no idea if this might help further id the tree, but I thought I'd give it a try!

Kristie

You did better than I. I planted my arbor day trees in my vegetable bed figuring I could baby and protectthem there. Then after they were big enough to go out with the "big kids" I'd move them. All of them died. Some the first summer, some that winter, but by my second summer (now) they are all dead.

Well, they may still die. They're still planted in a "garden" until they get "big". Except, they're probably too big now. This fall we're gonna try to move them, hopefully it works. I have no idea how big the root systems are gonna be on these things. So, I might be in the same boat as you next year.......

You may want to consider root pruning the tree and leaving it in place for a while until you move it in the fall.

VV
The reason my photo doesn't show any thorns on the washington hawthorn is that a low hanging branch was photographed. The tree is approximately thirty feet tall and loaded with thorns. I have two of the trees and they have never produced flowers.

how do I root prune?

It is a process that makes it less stressful for a tree or shrub to be moved. In the best scenario, root pruning would be done about a year before the move but I do not think that doing it just a few months before the move would be a totally wasted effort.

When you dig up a tree or shrub that has been in the ground for a while, you disturb and lose roots - especially the little feeder roots that help with nutrient uptake etc. So it is a shock to the tree not only to be moved into a new spot/environment but also to lose these important roots that extend pretty far out from the tree.

By slicing through the soil and the roots --with a sharp shovel --all the way around the tree / shrub at the drip line --and not lifting the tree or moving it .. it allows the tree to get used to the root loss and to better tolerate the eventual move. Even with only a few months left before the move (in your case since you plan to move in the fall) -the tree will have a chance to develop new little feeder roots (closer to the trunk) that will be moved along with the tree when you are finally ready for that 'big move.' Hope this makes sense.

Thanks everyone, especially Kristie for starting this thread. I received a bunch of trees from Arbor Day a few years ago that were supposed to be Crepe Myrtles. Three of the CM's made it, but there were two others that were not CM's. I have been trying to figure out what they were for about two years now, and have ID'd them as the fragrent Sumac now. One of the Sumac's had a Red Bud growing out of the base of it as well. So thanks for the id everyone.
I didn't catch if the Fragrant Sumac is as invasive as some of the others. Does anybody know?