Some direction on the subscription cost...

I also think it is a great idea to lower the subscription fee. I also have offered two people out of the country to pay for their subscription but they declined my offer. They may join on their own if it is brought down some. Not everyone can afford to pay 25.00, remember, not everyone could afford the 15.00, that is why the angel fund was created. It would also increase the subscriptions.

Just my 2 cents worth.

A.

Thanks for the concern Dave. I just became a subscriber today, April 10. I would have joined sooner had it not been for all of the freebies. I got more than the subscription cost just from the freebies. I did ,however, feel that I was missing out on much more by being just a member. I agree with Wickedelph, reduce the price and the freebies. I've been using the net for a long time and have never seen a site like this one. It is just wonderful. THANKS!

freetwofarm

I hesitated at $25., but only for a minute. When you're hooked, you're hooked, lol. I think the increase surpised me.

I know the wealth of info that is available here but I've wondered about the people that browse through, see the cost, and continue on.

I like the idea of $19.95. Somehow that penny makes it sound so much cheaper than $20.00, lol.

Jen

p.s. I emailed a few days ago about the angel fund. Did it go through?

We all know when our renewal will come up each year. Ever thought about 'putting back' a couple of dollars a month to anticipate it? That's what I do with my house payment! I know it's coming - so I prepare!

Nicole

i think it takes guts and some heart too, to even bring this subject up. one more reason i'll never leave dg unless forced out at gunpoint.

its hard to put money back if on a fixed income when there are things you need to survive, its also hard trying to put money back when you are a mom with kids.


as far as the statement above about internet costing like 23- 44 dollars i pay 5 dollars a month just to have crappy service for my kids to have the net for school because its all i can afford and that is limited in time too by the server.

25 dollars up front to me is alot at one time. yes i might be able to save but then i know with kids something more will come up and i need it for them.

alot of people dont look at the break down of it because we cant. its not a thing to breakdown. and prepareing on a fixed bugdet isnt easy to do either when all that money goes to survive.

the rock and hard place for you all here at Dave's.

Thank you all for your feedback! I really appreciate it.

I have changed the price to $19.95 and will watch it over the coming weeks and see if there is an impact.

best,
dave

Hi Dave,
Will you be offering the $15.00 to make a member a subscriber? I would love to gift a subscription to a member friend of mine, She cant afford anything right now, long story, I would gladly pay her $15.00..:)Anita

Edited to add, Thank you so much for knocking it back down to $19.95 :)

This message was edited Apr 11, 2007 10:05 AM

I feel the $19.95 rate is appropriate. Thank you for being so considerate. If income remains static at $25.00 but membership lags it would appear that the increase is too high, though a few months may be too short a time to really make a determination. "Introductory" reduced prices for magazines entice me for an initial subscription, but I usually cancel when/if the price rises. I don't know if that would be a factor in this case.
Best to you and family.
r

Thanks Dave.

Hey Dave - you could always put a 'make a donation' button at the bottom of the site.

That's what my 2 free motorcycle sites do. One site in particular was initially against doing that because they didn't want to be seen as 'beggin' for money. However, many of us realize it is expensive to keep all this running. I donated to both - and it was more than the 'old' $25 subscription fee here. To me it's well worth it - like buying a book about gardening or motorcyles. I will gladly pay for the knowledge I gain! Heck much of the stuff you can learn will actually save you money in the long run.

Nicole

You people forget that there are others out in the world that have alot less than you do.. This is to get more subscriptions and make it affordable to all of them. Obviously, all of you that can afford it, either do not realize that others can't, or you skip completely over the posts. It is not about US...

A.

Please don't call anyone - "you people" that is just the ultimate in rude. Wow.

One great feature on DG is the ability to get to know people. You can see easily see all the threads they start and get to know them through their posts. Kinda like a background check - it's not about US at all..

Nicole

I did not mean anything by that.. please excuse me. Just like using the word "Hey"

It is just awful that we always want to make everyone happy, but we can't.. we can only try .

Still, I think we got off topic somewhere here.

Enjoy your day.

A.

This message was edited Apr 11, 2007 9:07 AM

I didn't read everyone's post, so this may have already been suggested:

Instead of one lump $25 payment, maybe splitting it into 'installments' (buying three or four months at a time) will work better for some.

I want to say I love Dave's Garden. I've met life long friends in the matter of a few short months. The $15.00 fee at the begining was not even a thought for me but I jumped the band wagon and renewed before it went up. So even thought I said it didn't matter, obvisously it did.

Maybe you could offer a senior citizen's discount because social security is not much. Maybe a student discount with so many hrs of attendance. Multi-year discount for signing up 5 - 10 years at a time.

This message was edited Apr 11, 2007 10:19 AM

Great idea Jeri! But, then again you have those out there on fixed incomes who may not be Senior's or Students so those folks still might not be able to afford it.

I myself am using the $5.00 for 2 months option. It is easier for me to pay like that than to come up with $25.00 a pop. I wouldn't mind paying $25.00 for the whole year - IF it was broken down into monthly payments. I work hard for the income I've got, and $25.00 at once for a non-essential item is hard for me to justify.

However, with payday on Friday, and the price at $19.95 for a year . . . I think I can fit that in!

Thanks a bunch, Dave!

How about a compromise - a button to click that goes to fund special needs subscriptions. (When I pay my electric bill, I click a box that bills me an extra dollar and that goes into a fund to pay bills for people who can't.) When renewing a subscription - the button could be there and the renewer can click and add money to the fund. I don't have a plan for how this money gets used to defray subscription costs - but I think that we can all trust "Dave" to figure it out.

Paying $5 each month adds up to $60 for a year's subscription!

Right now it is $5.00 for 2 months = $30.00/year

By lowering the price, you get more volume subscriptions which will make more profits in the long run.. there will be no need for donations, except for very special purposes. Tracking Donations is another recordkeeping (IRS)..

I really think it would just be considered part of gross revenue as it wouldn't be tax deductable. (Oh gosh - I sound like an accountant - "gotta get out to the garden, again".)

Well, we already have PLENTY of money in the Garden Angel fund. The problem is, most new people don't know about it and we don't want to flat-out advertise it as an alternative to subscribing lest it become abused.

I changed the price 3 hours ago, and already we have had 10 brand new members subscribe at the new price. Contrast that with yesterday, where 18 people subscribed over the course of the entire 24 hours. I think we have a winner here!!

I've also added 3 months to everyone's subscription who bought in at the $25 price range.

Thank you all for your help in discussing this!

dave

Thanks, Dave!!! ☺

Wow, that's fantastic..
A.

Allright! Ten Newbies! In 3 hours! Awesome! I'm curious how many of the trial subscribers end up signing up for the annual subscription after their three month trial ends. I bet there are a lot!

Hey Dave, if I renew now and send $25 will you add three months to mine subscription? LOL. Just kidding! I can well afford the $19.95 to renew!

We all really Appreciate your re-thinking the cost of the subscription! I know as operating costs rise in the future ( and I know they will), you'll be going through this again, with some folks not wanting or liking a price increase .... but, that's life! We just have to realize that it costs money to run a business. All Garden's are expensive to operate, even a WorldWide Web Garden!

Thanks so much for This Wonderful Garden!

Lin

Hi All~~~~~~~

I am so sorry that this discussion has become a little heated. Everbody take a deep breath and please don't take offense by some things that are stated. We all know that reading something that is written with no malicious or hurtful intent can be interpreted the wrong way. Struggling financially can feel somewhat degrading and we tend to be hypersensitive - I'm included in the WE. There has been such wonderful input on this topic. I agree with so many people. Using the credit card (I'm in Canada) means paying interest on top of the exchange. Saving is not easy for anyone who has to watch every cent because as we all know, things break down at the worst times, there are always surprises that we didn't count on and it becomes impossible to put aside money every month. I know when I first started googling, before I became a subscriber, I kept thinking "Who is this Dave guy and why should I have to be a subscriber to get more information?' I was getting so frustrated not being able to get access to things that I was really interested in. Then I read what DG was all about, thought about it for a few months and became a subscriber. My attitude totally changed and I was overwhelmed by the generous, kind spirit of the people in DG and the amazing knowledge I had access to. I have made some wonderful friendships through DG. Because of my physical limitations, I don't socialize very much. DG has been my connection to wonderful people with the same interests as me. It didn't take much time before I realized that this "Dave guy" was caring and full of integrity.
Dave - I feel for you because you have had to make some tough decisions. Someone asked what is the Angel Fund and I don't believe it was answered. Is it possible to answer that question?

I'm sorry if I opened up Panora's Box but everyone should be heard to get a general consensus.

Thanks for the decrease in subscription price!!!!!!!!!!!! It proves that your heart and soul is invested in the happiness and people who are DG subscribers.

Thanks again,

Elaine

Hi, Elaine. Here is the response Dave gave to the question about the Angel Fund:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3379374

Although I can handle it, the size of the increase really startled me. I know there are those for whom it is too much, and many others would need to cut back in other areas to manage it. As for several different layers of payment plans - we should try to keep the bookkeeping as simple as possible. Even with the wonders of technology, the collection process takes time, and we're better served if Dave and staff can direct the bulk of their attention to the more creative aspects of DG. The honor system works for other groups such as the Seed Savers Exchange, and I believe it would be workable here, too. A reduction of $5 for those whose budgets are pinched would be an unobtrusive way for more members to come in and stay.

I think cutting back to $19.95 is wise, Dave, and as others have expressed, we are grateful for your thoughtful consideration. I think when renewal comes along for me, I'll add a few dollars for the Angel Fund if doing so won't add to the bookkeeping chore. Yuska

Thanks so much jasmerr - now I understand!

Happy Gardening to all and thanks to Dave for the decrease.

Elaine

The Garden Angel fund was started when we first introduced subscriptions back in 2001 and we had some active, valuable members who couldn't afford a subscription at that time. It has continued to be funded by members who wished to contribute to it. Quilts have been auctioned, seeds have been sold, with the proceeds going to the Angel Fund.

Its purpose was - and remains - to help members who give a lot to DG in terms of answering questions, sharing what they know in PlantFiles and BugFiles, etc., but who need help with their subscription. Typically the need arises due to exchange rates creating a hardship for an international member, and/or because a member finds themselves in an unexpected financial bind, making it impossible to renew their subscription on their own.

Trish and a group of members act as stewards, reviewing the occasional request/"nomination" from someone who knows of a fellow DG'er in need.

I got here late, but something else to consider, and I know this has been talked about before, but with so many "free" forums, don't you think for some it might be a case of why buy the cow? Since you do have the gardens.com, and it's free, why not limit Daves to just a few "free" forums to whet their appetite, but, sorry, you have to pay to join the whole community?

There has been a couple of times when my renewal came up that I had other things that *HAD* to be paid, so 15, 25 or 50 wouldn't have mattered much what the price was, at that particular time I couldn't afford it... although 19.95 *sounds* "feels" better than 25.00 :)

I agree that there are too many forums where you don't have to be a subscriber, only a member. I don't know how many members it would affect to change them to subscriber-only forums.

Dave
Thank you for caring enough to lower the subscription price. Although I renewed at the $15 during the grace period, I was surprised at the increase. I would love to see a reduced subscription rate as suggested for new members. I love sharing DG! Perhaps there could be a box to check if we would like our gift to be anonymous? By doing this, it would cut down on your paper work by encouraging gift subscriptions since a lot of people aren't aware of the Angel Fund and also save people's dignity. :) They would only know that they had been gifted with a gift from a friend. I also agree that maybe it might be worth considering limiting Daves to just a few "free" forums.

Most of all, though, I want to thank you for a wonderful cite. I've learned so very much since joining in 2005, that's true ... but the friends I've made can never be replaced. :)

I think some of that is due to the practice of making new forums available to both members and subscribers, so that they get off to a better (?) start... At what point do those new forums become subscriber-only?

I think lowering the subscription price will have the desired result of increasing subscription numbers -- thanks, Dave!

Would you consider allowing "gift subscriptions" at reduced rates for people who are not yet subscribers? A lot of magazines do offers like that... I realize that's a somewhat different consideration from changing the basic subscription price, but it might be another way to encourage new subscribers. And yes, the fact that the subscription rate just went down $5 does make it more likely for me to gift somebody with a subscription... but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask about a little extra incentive... :-)

Dave, I only read about half the above posts so far. But in my opinion, lowering the subscription price is a good idea. You know I've been a subscriber here a long time and I have come to know a large percentage of our population is like me, retired and on a fixed income. There are many times I could not pay even the $15 price had not someone paid for me as a gift.

I hate to see old familiar names dropping off due to the increase. I know some don't renew because their interest (and lives) take a turn but I hate to lose Old Faithfuls.

You are doing a good job with this consideration, although I think I read it's already in force. Thanks.

Wow, Dave,
You are a gentleman, in the old-school sense of responsibility, compassion, and consideration. It is a pleasure being a subscriber in an organization that is dedicated to helping everyone, and at the same time, not begging for $$$ at every opportunity.

I, too, was a bit surprised at the increase, but it was affordable, so let it pass. The reduction is a real "Easter Egg" for those of us who are members, even if it is a few days late. LOL

Thank you sincerely,

Bill

PS: I tell anyone who will listen (and has an internet connection), to check out the site. Three weeks after I subscribed, members solved my tomato problems. Then later, solved my bug querys. Absolutely priceless.

Thank you for the extra 3 months! I had a little trouble deciding whether or not to rejoin at the $25 rate. My husband passed away in September 2005. I went through a bout of depression and lost interest in many things. Life is getting good again and my desire to grow beautiful flowers is coming back. Money is much tighter than it used to be but I feel like for the money you cannot beat this website. It is a phenomenal resource for gardeners. I really appreciate your concern for people and all that you do to make this such a fantastic place to visit. Thanks again Dave.


Susan