Wildlife Gardening, Bird and Butterfly Gardening

I just checked the Butterfly forum and we have a new bird post and pic.

Critter, that would be a better spot than Butterflies.

Oh well.

I just looked again at the Wildlife Gardening forum... Of the 100 posts on the first page, over 40 have bird topics in their titles.

So I would say that "gardening for birds" is being quite adequately represented in the wildlife gardening forum... and I remain confused as to why "birds" in general were added to the butterfly & hummingbird forum.

Critterologist, a lot of the threads about birds in the 'Wildlife Gardening' forum are there because there was no forum about gardening for birds. There are threads there about Hummingbirds and butterflies too. Nobody had a major problem that I know of.

Well... Even though that was not directed at me, I'm replying.

We are Paid Members.. This is the Discussion Forum

We are discussing a BIG change in a VERY popular forum.

The opinions should be allowed to be heard.

I feel badly for the new members as this will cause a lot of confusion for them.

Nobody said anything about "Paid Members" not being allowed to have their opinions heard, so I don't know what you're "replying" to.

I feel badly for the person who posted the first question about birds there already. Wrightie wasn't treated too well in my opinion. All those posts on her thread, only a few straight answers to her question.

wrighties fine.

Heres the same link I directed her to before plus there are plenty more in Gardening For Wildlife.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/682674/

I'm done.

Claypa, I don't think I've ever questioned Terry's or another admin's competence... but that doesn't mean there might not be a better way to accomplish what seems to be a good goal of specifically including birds in a forum title.

Why can't discussion of gardening for birds remain in the wildlife forum? Why is it better to add that discussion to a very busy forum rather than to encourage more discussion of birds on a less busy forum? The butterfly and hummingbird forum has 19 pages of posts, and things move pretty quickly there at times... The wildlife gardening forum has 2 pages of posts, and you don't even have to move halfway down the page to get to threads from 2006.

Why are we trying to make a busy forum busier by broadening its focus? This is a question worth discussing, because it is a BIG change as pelletory said.

Can the same search result help be accomplished by adding "Birds" to the title of the Wildlife Gardening Forum and/or by using the less grammatical "Butterfly and Humming Bird Gardening" title for the Butterfly/Hummer forum?

For whatever it's worth, the Bird and Butterfly Gardening forum is four years older than the Wildlife Gardening forum, that's one reason why it has a lot more posts.

What a great debate! It's like a bunch of taxonomists.

Lumpers vs. Splitters...

Thank you Terry! (What a gal!!) Am I seeing things or did the forum change names again? I love the new name! Perfect! This makes my year! Applaudes/

TYTY!!

Deb
edited to correct my name, . So tickled my fingers couldn't type, LOL!

This message was edited Apr 4, 2007 7:23 AM

claypa - I have felt since DG was sold that there ARE going to be changes made to this huge website. I am trying to keep an encouraging attitude about new changes. I did not know that there was already a forum that addressed wildlife and bird gardening. So I was willing to try it out for the SAKE of those new who were genuinely looking for such a forum. BUT it did NOT seem to be a good fit at all to me!!!! All the reasons have been stated here already and I will not repeat them.

I am sorry that you disagree with what most of us here have stated. You are entitled to your opinion.

And I, too, am wondering why this change in forum title was NOT brought to the attention of those who frequent the Butterfly & Hummer Gardening forum BEFORE the change was made????? I feel that it could cause a MAJOR change to my favorite forum and the whole reason I joined DG to begin with! And again, as others have stated, I am a paying subscriber and would appreciate the opportunity to have discussed this change "before" it happened. My confidence in DG just dropped a few notches I'm afraid. :-( I don't like wasting my time trying to defend a beloved forum. I would much rather be spending my time on THAT forum or out in my yard gardening.

I, too, am done with what I have to say about this whole matter.

Note to Terry-

GO LADY VOLS!!!! (((((TERRY)))))

Maggie

THANK YOU TERRY!!!!

I love it!!! :-) :-) :-)

LOL at "Lumpers vs. Splitters"... and I have to say that I'm usually one of the nay-sayers when it comes to splitting a forum... but this time I was definitely against lumping! :-)

Thank you, Terry!!!

:-)

Now... I still think gardening for non-hummer birds deserves an official home...

Terry and admin, would you please consider a forum name change so we'd have "Bird and Wildlife Gardening" (or vice versa)?

I think that would accurately reflect the interests in the Wildlife Gardening forum.

:-)

Thank you very much Terry. :-)

I respectfully request that you consider Critterologist's last suggestion, above.

Thanks

We're not planning on any other forum name changes this week. (The phrase "once bitten, twice shy" comes to mind ;o)

Terry, I apologize if I offended you in anyway. Like I said before I really do appreciate all that Dave and you do for us.

I'm not offended, no apology is necessary ;o)

Great - thanks, Terry.
I don't post a lot, but do a lot of searching; this will help others find the best place to discuss b&hb.
Now, about that Wildlife Gardening forum....

I thought it wasn't a bad idea to see what folks in that forum might think of including "birds" in the forum title, but...Terry told me there would be no change to the name of the Wildlife Gardening Forum

Hmmm - my little tag didn't show up at the end of my message. It did say

"grinning, ducking, and running very, very fast"

Terry,

Thank you VERY much!

Maggie

Thank you!!!

Thank you Terry! I'm sorry that it turned out to be more than you had bargained for tho. We butterfly gardeners have become quite good online friends and love the comfort of our online "home". (and DG is my homepage)

I'm confused as to why some people think birds need to be added into the title of Wildlife Gardening? Birds are wildlife, as are snakes, frogs, toads, butterflies, hummers, coons, skunks, foxes, coyotes, squirrels, bats, bears etc etc. I garden for any wildlife that would like to call my home their home. It's all about balance and the ecosystem. Checks and balances. What happens in nature etc etc. It's creating a natural environment to include all wildlife habitat. Nature and I are providing the essential elements necessary for survival... food, water, shelter/cover. It's creating space that's hospitable to any and all wildlife.

Yes, Terryr, you make good points, but just as hummingbirds and butterflies are a subset of wildlife, so are wild birds in general. For those of us trying to determine which Dave's Garden forum to turn to discuss gardening specific to birds, it is not clear where to go.

Gardening for Birds is a popular past time; it seems logical enough that "Birds" would make it into the title of a gardening forum on DG in order to make it easier for those of us new to Dave's to find a *safe* place to land. Bird watching is very different from Bird Gardening.

Terry, you're absolutely right. It just seemed to me that this whole thing with the H&B forum came about because admin thought it would be useful (for search results and for just letting people know what posts were where) to put the word "Birds" into a forum title. If the word were going to be added to a forum title, I figured it made sense to add it to a forum where birds were already being discussed.

It's fine with me if it just stays "Wildlife Gardening." No biggie. And now that I've found that forum, I'm having fun lurking and catching up on some of the past threads!

Wrightie, I'm just glad both of us have figured out where to go for bird gardening stuff! If I'd found my way over to the H&B forum after "Hummers" got changed to "Birds," I'd have made the same assumption that what we needed on this forum was a thread about other birds! I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire. I lurk a lot more than I post over in the H&B forum, but it generally seems like quite a friendly place.

Birds were being discussed in the Butterfly and Hummer forum, still are.

I think some of us are just very literal - specific - in our thinking. As long as it doesn't take away from others' pursuits, I think it's better to have some of the popular subjects split off. Bird Watching is waaaayyy different than gardening for birds. Personally, I wouldn't know a brug if it bit me, but if they are that popular, I can see why there's a forum for them. I admit, I've thought some of the break-aways were a bit overboard, but I probably wouldn't if it was something I was interested in! :-)

I suppose it wouldn't matter if Terry had suggested it beforehand or not, the discussion would still take place - isn't that why we're here?

Claypa, I don't mean to be rude but...what's the big deal with you that the rest of us on the butterfly forum want it to stay the way it has been?? YES, birds have been discussed and will be discussed but it's not a main subject of the forum and that's how 99% of us wanted it to stay. Just because we love the butterflies does not mean we do not like or want birds. It's changed back so let's just move on.

I guess for some people when they think of Wildlife its something furry or slimey.

I feel the same way as terryr.

If administration feels they need to put the word "Birds" in a gardening title then Wildlife Gardening is the best spot .
Its not a large subject matter but its been there already for a long time.

konkreteblonde, it's not a big deal with me that the rest of you want it to stay the way it has been. I was just glad it was going to include other birds too. It's not very complicated.

YEA TERRY!!!!!!! thanks so much you are the greatest!!!

Yes Pelle, Terryr hit it on the nose for me too..

Mike~ In the height of the Butterfly season there will be as many as 10-20 new threads a day..Most are about butterflies, and as the season goes on more and more hummingbirds show up. Any other wildlife around here I usually post in their appropriate forum, ie, Bird Watching or Wildlife..That is, if I have time after reading and answering the butterfly and hummingbird entries,

I'm thinking it's do-able now, wheras the change would have been overwhelming for me to keep up with!

You're right kaperc in saying

I was not going to add anymore here, but .....

The reason that I wish that this had been discussed here *before* changing the name was to prevent wonderful folks like wrightie from posting on the Butterfly forum and then possibly feeling like she was being verbally attacked and not welcome there. I would not intentionally try to discourage anyone from visiting and participating in the HB & BF forum. But I think some of us might have felt a bit betrayed due to the unexpected forum name change and might have become a little defensive.

I also know that it can NOT be an easy job to be part of the DG Admin team and try to do what is best for the company as well as the consumers. Things will happen from time to time. I am just glad that this has been peacefully resolved and we can now ALL move on. This is one of the best gardening communities in cyberspace in my honest opinion and I am proud to be a part of it and to know all of you!!! :-D

Thanks to everyone for their valuable insight and ideas .... and sense of humor! :-D

I've read it all: and here's my H.O - it's more of an "experience" observation.
I garden primarily for butterflies and hummingbirds and have found the greatest information possible - google searches and all - here at DG. For instance - I had well over 100 monarch cats on five milkweed plants two days ago. Because of DG forums over the past two years, I knew what to do. (quick fix: go look for more milkweed at the garden centers- pronto!!) You who have posted on BF/ HB forums have helped me immensely, BTW.... your names are above! I had enough milkweed plants this year to host the EARLY spring migration because of you all :) I have also added many compatible nectar plants for both HB's and BF's and have had huge numbers of both in the past two years.

Recently I started serious birding by going to Audubon classes. The next step was to investigate planting some small trees that will feed the birds (along with my seed feeders) so they don't look for my cats. In my opinion - these are two separate hobbies, and I'd like to be able to search DG for the particular need I have at the moment. My pure"birding" info comes primarily from birding websites. My Gardeing for Birds info comes from DG, and in a couple of years thanks to you all, I will have enough food for both.

I love my two wildlife hobbies, and I like being able to focus my interests at any given time. I think they are very separate interests.

That being said, if any of those birdies try to eat my tomatoes this spring - (also my other favorite DG haunt) - the birds and I will talk ! LOL. So I try to give everyting that wants to live in my zone a place to feast in my small back yard. I appreciate being able to find the specifics here at DG.

Thanks so much, Bookworm, for your opinion about how the forums are set up, especially since YOU are seeing it from BOTH sides of the fence (so to speak)! I am delighted to hear that the HB and BF forum has been very helpful to you and that you now have a very successful and busy butterfly garden!!!! :-) I would love to see some photos posted on the forum sometime! ;-)

Thanks Becky! I might just do that - my current digital camera is just ok - and I have a few good photos I might post. (BTW I spent about an hour this evening hunting 1/4" - 2" hungry monarch cats to move to the new milkweed. I also saw 2 swallowtail cats on my fennel for the first time since planting. But, I'll get over to the right thread to post more. )

IMHO, my wildlife/birding "loves" are complementary, but often very exclusive. I'll still hunt down my threads no matter what - but appreciate the ease of not mixing HB/BF's with my new desire to attract Cedar Waxwings, swallows, and other winterers and migrants to my yard in winter/spring.

This is a great discussion, and I appreciate everyone's view on this subject. After all - we are the folks that help mother nature perpetuate our favorite hobbies!