Wildlife Gardening, Bird and Butterfly Gardening

These new names for these forums are a Lot better... they're easier to find not being crammed together with all the other 'G' names, and lots of other birds besides hummers appreciate gardens too. Good move!

You're the first to notice. You're very welcome - glad you like 'em ;o)

I had a little extra time yesterday, and did a little housekeeping (virtual and real - some dustbunnies under my bed got removed, too.)

LOL. Terry, I noticed and so did several other people. We just never commented on here about it. Several people noticed and thought they were seeing things at first then realized the names had changed. Have heard nothing but good things about the changes so thanks!!

It made more sense to me when it was Hummingbirds & Butterflies and Birds & Wildlife... Then the "Birds" from Birds and Wildlife got moved over to Bird Watching... It's unclear to me whether tales from my backyard birdfeeder, for example, belong in "Bird and Butterfly Gardening" or in "Bird Watching."

Since Birds have their own forum now, could we consider changing back to Hummingbirds for the Hummingbird and Butterfly Gardening fourm? That lets us concentrate on flowers that hummers and butterflies enjoy... and I don't see why we can't discuss gardening for non-humming birds over in th Bird Watching fourm. (I agree that it's easier to find forums when a bunch don't start with "Gardening for...")

I guess I mentally differentiated between bird watching and gardening for birds (whether they be hummers or otherwise ;o)

I agree to a certain extent. First let me say that I appreciate all your hard work Terry.
I do believe that nectar plants that are loved by butterflys should be kept on its own. That forum is very heavy on BF's anyway so theres really no need to put anymore into that catagory.

Yes... I'm envisioning a lot of the "bird" posts that were moved from "birds & wildlife" to their own "bird watching" forum now being added into the butterfly forum... to the detriment of both forums.

BFs and hummers just seemed like a natural combination, as gardens that are butterfly-friendly are generally also hummingbird-friendly. I think including all birds in that forum will cause congestion.

Maybe "Bird Watching" could just be changed to "Birds" (or "Wild Birds" if you want to keep pet bird discussion over in pets) for all bird related stuff...

Fear not - I'm not moving any posts; I just tweaked the name a bit ;o) My guess is the "birders" will still gravitate to the bird-watching forum, and those who are looking for gardening advice in regards to growing nectar plants for butterflies, hummers (and any other birds that they may garden for), will continue to use the "gardening for" forum.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you would be moving threads Terry... just that it won't be clear whether new threads/posts about back yard feeders or bird-friendly back yards should be put over in "Bird Watching" or in the newly renamed "Bird and Butterfly Gardening" forum.

Is there any reason we can't just rearrange the old forum title to "Butterfly & Hummingbird Gardening?"

The "gardening for birds" topic (non hummingbirds) does seem to get addressed from time to time over in the Bird Watching forum. In a thread over in the renamed Butterfly forum, somebody mentioned that the new name of "Bird Watching" had put them off.... maybe we could tweak that forum name to "Wild Birds" instead? After all, it was split off from the "Birds and Wildlife" forum, not from the "Bird Watching and Wildlife" forum.

It kind of seems like a non-issue...wrightie seemed more interested in gardening than birding, so she posted there:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3343492

Where would it stop, should it become 'Bird Watching except Hummingbirds'? Why shouldn't people discuss other birds along with Hummingbirds and Butterflies?

We can tweak forum names forever, but no matter what we call each forum, every member is going to "read" into the forum name a slightly differen interpretation. My changes were meant to make things clearer, but people put plant ID questions in the specific plant forums; the regional gardening forums often stray far from gardening, and bird photos and questions are scattered among photos, bird watching, wildlife, gardening for wildlife and gardening for butterflies and birds.

So whatever we call a forum isn't going to prevent that. And while we do move threads regularly (when they are really far-afield and would get better exposure and answers elsewhere; or we create a new forum and there are some existing threads that should be moved to get it off to a good start), we aren't "sticklers" about narrowly defining any forum; with few exceptions, the slightly off-topic thread is usually left where it was posted.

For what it's worth, in my garden I try to plant for ~all~ wild birds and butterflies. I have quite a lot of hummingbird-friendly plants and vines along with seed and berry producing plants. I am also very interested in butterfly host & nectar plants. For me, the new name is more in line with my thinking.

Birding, aka Bird Watching is a specific hobby (or sport) which is less interesting to me than the gardening side of things. I certainly enjoy watching birds in my garden, but I am not one to go offsite to take part in the hobby.

"Why shouldn't people discuss other birds along with Hummingbirds and Butterflies?"

mostly because the (formerly known as) Gardening for Butterflies & Hummingbirds forum seemed to be pretty busy already... it seems to me that adding discussion about other types of birds might make things overly busy... The bird and wildlife forum got split up because the bird posts were overwhelming the wildlife posts, right? (I wasn't a fan of that change either, LOL.)

My apologies... it's not actually my intent to make a mountain out of a molehill here. I don't understand what this name change was meant to accomplish... I guess I'm just thinking "if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

By the way, there's a lot of discussion about gardening for birds over in the "Wildlife Gardening" forum (I just looked), so I don't see any reason the other forum couldn't go back to being Butterflies and Hummingbirds.... ??

I really appreciate all the work you and Dave do Terry. I know it is very hard to please everyone or on some days anyone. I'd really like it back the way it was. I do like to attract non-HB birds but out front, away from my caterpillars and butterflies. It never occurred to me to think of looking for regular bird info on the B&B forum, I look on the Wildlife Gardening forum. Perhaps it's because BF & HB are nectar eaters or because they're pretty- I'm not sure. That's just the way my brain sorts it out. I can't recall the last time someone had a regular bird question or comment except when one had eaten a BF. I'd like to go back if that's possible.

Many thanks,

Maggie

Since the votes are pretty much split (and I can promise the change wasn't made on a whim, but rather after some deliberation), let's take a "wait and see" approach. If the Gardening for Butterflies, et al suddenly gets overrun with bird posts in the next few days or weeks, we'll tweak the name again.

If it's any consideration, when you go to the library to get a book on butterflies, it is almost always "Butterflies and Hummingbirds" -- likewise if you look up Hummingbirds, it's always the same books that come up onthe search, "Butterflies and Hummingbirds".

I wondered why that is, but it is. I'd like the forum to be butterflies and hummingbirds, too.

Suzy

Terry, I had some questions about Hummingbirds and the best feeders & nectar and plants that bloom extra early plus I have a link to a map showing the migration (April is the month the ruby-throated ones appear in the East) but I didn't post because I didn't know where. So I posted on another site. But then I had to come back to DG to look up the plants they suggested.

Suzy

Terry, I know you don't do things on a whim. :-) I do understand rearranging the order of the words in the forum title, and it's easier to find them when a bunch don't start with "Gardening for..." But, I'm curious about why the change was made from "Hummingbirds" to "Birds".... ?

It was due to market research that showed significantly more search results when searching for the phrases with "butterflies and birds" (or "birds and butterflies" than the same searches using the word hummingbird.

Keep in mind that our forum names (along with threads titles and other words/phrases has a direct effect on how many people find us when they search via Google or another search engine.

And once they get here, are they more likely to look for and/or intuitively understand the phrase "bird and butterfly" or "hummingbird and butterfly"? Making it easy for members (new or exploring a new interest) to find their way around the site is another important reason for tweaking forum names.

I know change is hard, but I don't think there's going to be a stampede of birders to this forum because of this name change.

However, my hope is the change will bring more traffic from people looking for gardening information to attract butterflies and birds (ostensibly hummingbirds, even if they don't necessarily spell it out in their search) to the forum.

Thanks for explaining that -- I hadn't been considering search engine issues!

Since bird discussion is already going on in the wildlife gardening forum, would it help to change that name to include "Birds" or would that just mean the forum would get missed by searches containing both the terms birds and butterflies?

The way the forums are currently being used, dividing them into "Butterfly and Hummingbird Gardening" and "Bird and Wildlife Gardening" may make more sense (in terms of the type of habitat being created in the garden), but I don't know if it would help with the search engine stuff.

Terry, I see what you mean but I'm already seeing people at the butterfly forum talking about what bird seeds they put in their feeders etc.
Would there be a way to put the Bird Watching Forum and the Butterfly Forum under the catagory of Birds and Butterflys instead of being under Leisurely Pursuits on the Home Forums? Would that not still have the same result when someone searched via Google etc.? Just curious. Thanks.

Terry,

I do like rearranging the gardening wording, makes far more sense. Your idea of waiting a few days to evaluate the name change sounds reasonable.

I definitely can see the search engine issues for DG traffic. . I must say though when I Google bird, bird feeders, bird watching, birds and butterflies- the only hit that came up on the first page that had anything to do with our hummers was"related searches" at the bottom. It displayed a link to hummingbird feeders. Unfortunately, when I Google Hummingbird, GW comes up but we do not because we've lost that identifying word of what the forum is about. Do you have a sandbox system you can use to restore the previous forum title or change it to Bfly & Hbird gardening and then do a Google to see if we come up? I'm not sure that the BF/HB forum helps users so much either. Wrightie commented that the B&BF forum was butterfly-centric (as in lacking info on the forum she would have logically expected to find). I really like Pelletory's idea of moving birdwatching to the garden side. It seems that most "gardening for birds" questions are on the wildlife forum. To better serve people looking to attract birds by what they plant, perhaps a "Bird & Wildlife Gardening" forum would work.


Thanks for all you do,

Maggie

Hey all!
Bless you Terry, for all your hard work!!
As one who mainly concentrates on gardening for Butterflies and Hummers, I should comment... You can tell, most of the posts I have submitted have been about either or both of them. This is what got me to become a member actually. The search engine kept finding Dave's for my inquiries.
I liked the way it was before..and was surprised to see it had changed...
It was perect imho. Sure, I can manage the same, however not expecting as much of the specific traffic as before.

Deb

I have to smile....y'all do realize it wasn't called "hummingbirds" before the change, right?

ummm, no, actually I thought it was called "Gardening for Butterflies and Hummingbirds." *blush* That shows you how much attention I pay to forum titles rather than content, I suppose!

I still like "Butterfly and Hummmingbird Gardening" and "Birds and Wildlife Gardening" as forum titles that think accurately reflect what gets discussed in those respective forums... and if those titles would improve google searches, so much the better!

I'm not panicked about the name change YET but I'd prefer it go back to the way it was also. Not that I don't welcome talk about birds but the forum is busy enough for me as it is.

I don't get many hummers, but do plant for them, but I do pass up some of those threads to be able to keep up with the butterfly threads. I'm just concerned that I won't be able to keep up with the butterfly threads if birds become a topic also. Occassionally we do talk about attracting birds but that usually is something that just breaks off from a conversation we "regulars" have had. And, as someone else stated, it can be tricky attracting birds and butterflies at the same time, and having the latter survive.

As far as the search engine stuff goes, I understand it and it makes sense but what is more important to me is the people already here in DG. (I'm not saying that Terry etc. don't care tho!)

I'll survive either way but will lose interest if it becomes too overwhelming to keep up.

I really do not want to see Bird Watching thrown in with Wildlife as stated earlier.
That was why we asked for the BW forum in the first place to keep it seperate.

I agree that The Gardening for Butterflys and Hummers is a very busy enough place without adding on to it.


I think it would be better to combine Wildlife and Gardening for Wildlife or is that not possible.

Oi Vei... I simply would like to know where to go for chats related to planting for ~all types of birds~, butterflies, and bees... LOL

Wrightie, because of the very great interest in all those topics, I'm not sure that would be easy to accomplish in one forum anymore...

But if we did two "Gardening for X" forums where one was "Butterfly and Hummingbird Gardening" and the other was "Bird and Wildlife Gardening," I think that would take care of it...

As to combining the Wildlife and the Gardening for Wildlife forum, I think those are better as separate topics (sorta like the feeling seems to be that Bird Watching and Gardening for Birds are separate topics). Because a lot of habitat and food resource requirements are similar for birds and for other wildlife, it makes sense to me to have a forum for "Bird and Wildlife Gardening."

LOL... and admin thought they were just going to have a simple little name change... bet nobody saw this discussion coming! I do apologize for inadvertantly adding extra confusion by not realizing what exactly the forums were called previously!

Whoa....hold up.

Currently we have the following forums:

Bird Watching
Bird and Butterfly Gardening
Wildlife
Wildlife Gardening

We're not combining any of them.

Without a doubt, we're most definitely not combining "Wildlife" with "Wildlife Gardening" (The discussions that led up to the creation of "Gardening for Wildlife"/"Wildlife Gardening" are some I'd rather not reheat for a second serving ;o)

Everyone's input is appreciated, and your concerns will be taken under advisement. But for the time being, we're going to stay pat with the names as they appear now. If it becomes obvious that the forum name change is causing confusion, we'll revisit it then.

>smile<

I don't mind if I have to go to multiple forums to discuss each topic... I just want to know *where* I'm *welcome* to raise *which* topics. lol

Wrightie, you can talk birds with me anytime in any forum! I swear I'm nowhere hear as hidebound as I've been sounding in this thread, LOL.

Just to make sure I've got this right... what was the former name of the forum including butterflies? Was it "Gardening for Butterflies and Birds," and did I just read it as "Hummingbirds" because those seemed to be the only birds I ever saw discussed there?

Hahaha I'm totally confused by the names at this point... Don't worry Critter, we can talk - OR NOT talk - about birds on my patio with a couple drinks in our hand once the weather warms up.

Forum Shmorum! I don't even ~like~ birds anymore... LOL

>kidding, I was kidding... birds are delicious

No you had it right Critter; it used to be Butterflys and Hummingbirds until just recently.

Birds are delicious? Lol wrightie!

Sorry, was that in ~bad taste~???

No, I'm joking too.

teeheehee, I know. Silly computers. They're so sterile.

but - don't they all taste like chicken?

Mmmm, Mmmm. :-))