Ditching My Soaker Hoses....Going Back To Sprinklers!!!!!!!!

Gymgirl - Yes, the metal faucets are threaded and they screw into PVC tees. The tees are smooth for gluing and 3/4" on each end, while the part the faucets screw into are 1/2" and threaded.

Yes, all the connections are cemented together with PVC cement. You see how "curvy" the PVC line is in picture #2 - that pipe is straight in cold weather. Temperature changes cause a lot of flex in the PVC lines, and I have a few leaks to re-glue every spring. Ideally, I guess I should replace all the PVC pipe with threaded metal pipes, but that would be real expensive. Every fall I'm careful to leave ALL the faucets open and of course the water hose is disconnected and put away in the barn then. I don't want ice to break these lines.

The PVC is all 3/4" diameter, the thick supply-line stuff. The faucets are 1/2" and threaded. Hope this helps.

Hey, not relevant to gardening but my long-time fishing and hunting partner passed away this morning after a long illness and I wanted folks to know. He was a good guy - R.I.P. Max!

Ozark,
It is ALWAYS relevant when a good friend passes away. I am truly sorry for your loss of a good friend. Thank you for posting Max's picture, and sharing your sorrow with us here.

We are called to "bear one another's burdens," to "weep with those who weep," and to "mourn with those who mourn..."

Linda

Thanks, Ozark. Your photos and explanation was a huge help.


Question: If I go to Lowe's and ask for a faucet that will screw into PVC tees will they know what I mean? I so often go in there and say "I don't know what it's called, but......"

"Question: If I go to Lowe's and ask for a faucet that will screw into PVC tees will they know what I mean?"
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Yep. Or just walk around the aisles in the plumbing section until you find things that fit together. There are several kinds of 3/4" T-couplings, and I used the ones that have smooth 3/4" glued joints on each end and a threaded 1/2" "Tee" in the middle for the faucets to screw into. There are 2 or 3 ways to accomplish the same thing, though, and they'd all work equally well.

Uh, if I may interject here...

Bee, do NOT go wandering around in the plumbing dept at HD!!! Girl, there are enough fittings, and couplings, and elbows, and knee joints and tee-shirts, er, tee fittings, to make your head spin.

TELL the man what you want, then let HIM find 'em for you! You could be in that one aisle for hours by yourself, playing with fittings! (ask me how I know this....)

LOLOLOL!!!

"do NOT go wandering around in the plumbing dept at HD!!! Girl .......... TELL the man what you want, then let HIM find 'em for you!"
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You can only get away with that if you don't have a "Y" chromosome. For us of the other persuasion:

(1) Never ask for directions
(2) Never read instructions (until you get REALLY stuck)
(3) Never ask anyone at Lowe's or HD what parts to use or how to design something you're building.

To do so would be to imply that he/she knows more about plumbing, electrical, framing, drywall, etc. than you do - and if you did that you'd have to turn in your man card. Just sayin'. LOL

"turn in your man card!!!"

I LOVE it!

Ozark - when you say "glued joints" I assume they do not already have glue on them. I'll also need the awful smelly stuff and purple stuff to join things together. Right? It would be nice to know what they are called, please.

Sorry, but I'm completely ignorant when it comes to "man stuff". My hubby doesn't get around as well as he used to, so I'm having to do most of what he used to do.
Fortunately we own a SawzAll and a vice, so I'll be able to cut the PVC.

Gymgirl - if I knew what I was looking for, or more precisely, what the items were called, I could: "Boldly go where no Woman has gone before" in any hardware store. LOL

Honey of Bee,
When you "boldly go," you represent all womanhood, everywhere!

"We are Borg." "We are one".

LOL!

"I'll also need the awful smelly stuff and purple stuff to join things together. Right? It would be nice to know what they are called, please."
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PVC primer and PVC cement. They'll be near the plastic pipe and fittings in the plumbing section of any hardware store. Get the smallest containers of both - a little goes a long ways so you won't run out while building your PVC grid, and the stuff always dries up in the can before you'll need it again.

Thanks for all your help, Ozark. Once the weather cools and the summer vegetables are out of the way, I'll start purchasing the supplies.

I've made notes of everything you've said, so I'll be armed with the info when I boldly go into the pluming department. LOL

I don't understand why it is bad to water overhead. Rain is overhead.

Also for many organic gardens the first line of defense is a strong stream of water to knock off the bugs.

Dervish2,
The difference overhead watering and rain watering may have something to do with how the plant reacts to the nitrogen carried down in the rainwater. Notice how much greener and faster growing your grass is right after the rain? Almost immediately, because of how fast the grass takes up the nutrients. It doesn't do this with plain watering.

In that case, the water simply sits on the leaves allowing for all sort of fungaluglies to develop on the plant. Which is why, if you have to overhead water, it should be done in the early morning before the sun, so the plant has enough time to dry itself out before the humidity rises, or the sun scorches it.

Something along these lines...but, I'm sure what I've missed or confused will get straightened out by the Ubers!

Linda

If you have a limited supply of water or are paying the city for it, why spray it into the air ? A good amount will evaporate before it hits the ground.
In our T-Tape operation, a strip only a few inches wide is open to evaporation. The water gets right to the roots.
We are getting fantastic yields this summer in the middle of a drought. Not using a lot of water either.
Here's some close ups of our T-Tape system. We use the PVC where it will be permanent like the strawberry beds.
The blue lay-flat is used in the fields.
All the lay-flat components are available from the T-Tape supplier. Run from 64¢ to $2 each. There is a tool to punch holes in the blue lay-flat hose.
We made up the valve & connection to garden hose. It is a simple snap coupler.

Lay-flat on pickles.

Countrygardens,
When you were researching for your watering system, did you consider using pvc pipes like you use the T-tapes? If so, what made you choose the T-Tapes instead?

dervish2 - frequent over head watering encourages fungus growth on plants. Watering over head occasionally is fine. However, as CountryGardens pointed out, a lot of that water will be lost to evaporation.

I attach a wand sprayer to the end of my hoses to make watering at ground level easier. I think I paid about $11.00 each for them at W-Mart.

No research. 25 years ago just ordered & away we went.
It is so cheap, why wouldn't one do it this way.
The lay-flat we've had since the beginning.
The T-Tape is $192.00 for 10,000 ft.
Pretty cheap when figuring how much we water.
The T-Tape is put under the plastic mulch first thing in the spring. Our machine does both at the same time.

Bee, thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread.

We are considering t-tape as well. We have a smaller/large garden 250' x 100" and need at least 2,500 linear feet. T-tape prices out at .18 cents per linear foot. That includes filter, main lines, couplers, line punch, connectors, end caps, etc. Everything to get the system running...This estimate does NOT include electronic valve or timer (I won't be using those). The entire system for our largish garden comes in at roughly 450.00.

A soaker hose, 50.00 for 250' is .20 cents per linear foot NOT including any other couplings, pvc, end caps, glue or accessories. I'm a thrifty soul and could probably find one cheaper at the end of the season tho.

Which is a better choice will probably depend on size of beds, since t-tape looks to be sold in minimum of 100' linear feet.

It's definitely worth pricing each out on paper first to see which works for you.

You're welcom, Cocoa.

My raised beds are 24ft long, so I'm going to experiment with 25ft soaker hoses. I can easily extend the beds to fit the length of hose. I want to be able to water each bed independently, which is why I like Ozark's system. Each row can have a shut-off.

You can have a shut off on each t-tape, or mainline too, just incase anyone is wondering :0) All the pieces are no more complicated then a lego set (can you tell I live with boys.lol)

I forgot, if anyone want to research t-tape. A good starting point is the dripworks gallery. http://www.dripworks.com/category/cat_gop
From there it's easy to mentally switch out components and price individual pieces.

Here's the cheapest place to buy the stuff.
http://www.jordanseeds.com/index.cfm?id=2341577&fuseaction=browse&pageid=88
Forget the filter unless you are getting your water from a pond or lake.
Easier than putting all the shut -offs in the system is to make short pieces of lay-flat & chance the water hose from one to the other.
We do this on our entire 5 acres.

CountryGardens - do you put end caps on the hoses when you switch from one to another? I'm concerned that bugs/spiders might crawl into open ends.

(As I'm typing, I'm watching a mother wren running after her baby trying to feed it something).

Very interesting thread. As I read Ozark's description, I had to stop and check who was writing, thinking I'd see my dad's name up[ there, but, knowing full well, that my dad, who designed a system almost identical to Ozark does not touch the computer or nor can he type. Dang, he can't even see -- almost blind. Honestly, I thought I was reading my dad's setup. It was a real treat to use it this year as I have moved in with him and taken over most of the gardening, with him at my heel's directing me -- almost too much!

I may need to take the advice I noticed at the beginning of this thread concerning CLR, as this year we are using well water and hoses are clogging up too much. I finally just attached hoses directly from the main faucet to get the pressure needed to unplug some soaker hoses. I've replaced hoses and repaired hoses and cussed hoses. Such fun.

Ozark -- how long is your PVC pipe. Maybe ours is too long to get the pressure at the end of the line. And how many to you run at a time? Then again, maybe our soaker hoses are too old and plugged up. I really can't imagine taking the time to soak 16+ rows of 25' soaker hoses to clean. And I know I'm not going to actually scrub them.

Again thanks for the article -- Ozark, you must think like my dad. Gotta be a good man!

Now I'm contemplating a fall garden. Glutton for punishment!

Soaker hoses sound like a lot of work. Not as simple as our T-Tape system.
T-Tape only takes 4 lbs of pressure. Will drip the same amount at the end of a 300 foot run as it does at the beginning.
Just to add a little something-----


fresh strawberries for breakfast Monday morning.

This message was edited Jul 24, 2012 5:50 AM

The major issue with sprinklers is that there are some plants that are prone to fungus infection when the leaves are continually wet. I don't know if anyone has brought that up yet. Tomatoes and cucumbers come to mind as likely problems. Lettuce, beans, and peppers don't seem to care much. I'm surprised to hear that soaker hoses are so much of a problem.

LMHmedchem

You guys are dwelling on water overhead increasing fungaluglies, burns the leaves, etc. There is one very important reason you don't want to water from above- the flowers are your fruit- if you spray the flowers you will get no fruits. Water from above pulls the roots to the top of the ground and the plant falls over, bloop. Deep occasional water pulls the roots into the ground and makes a stronger plant. Old time gardens were labor intensive, you spent a LOT of time and backbreaking work there.

I guess leaf fungus could be an issue for annuals, but where I live, anything perennial had BETTER be able to cope with 8 months of drizzle. Moss grows on roofs and driveways, and I always wondered why we didn't have furry fungus on everything that stands srtill for 10 minutes. But we don't.

I know that "everyone" says that spray-watering from above is the kiss of death, but I've never done anything else and haven't seen problems I couldn't blame on my usual issues:
slugs
low nitrogen
partial shade
planted at the worng time
bugs
more slugs

I even water at dusk and don't see fungus, and at noon and don't see burn spots. Beginner's luck?
I may just be lucky that summer is usually low-humidity here, or I'm only trying to grow easy things.
Or, I water by hand with a "shower" setting, not with a sprinkler running for hours.

And I would NOT urge anyone to listen to my opinion over that of anyone with lots of experience.
I think I'm doing pretty well if "they didn't all die this year!"

Also, there is a big irrigation market for sprayers and sprinklers. When that many people buy something, some of them must know what they're doing. Maybe professional growers know what is safe to spray & sprinkle, and what they have to drip or soak.

Rick, you're doing fine as you are. As someone above mentioned "rain comes from overhead". As for me I don't do overhead watering due to its evaporation loss and the fact it tends to water between the rows, into the pathways, and I feel it is simply a waste of water whether that water comes from a limited well source or from the city/county water system.

As for the "water on leaves burns plants" theory, that has been dis-proven years ago. Unlike holding a magnifying glass in one place trying to ignite leaves or paper, etc, the sun continuously moves and won't build up the dedicated heat of ignition.

Regarding mildews and fungus, your area is not known for high humidity so you may seldom see this problem. In the South, where humidity is nearly a constant, even at night, many plants will easily host mildew. The only veggies I know that are most highly susceptible will be some of the Cucurbitacea. Fortunately, on the rare occasion it happens, planting with good air circulation (e.g., wider spacing allowing air flow) for those plants is of great benefit. And of course there are always milk sprays, fungicides, etc should someone want to invest $$ down that avenue.

KIttriana:
"There is one very important reason you don't want to water from above- the flowers are your fruit- if you spray the flowers you will get no fruits. Water from above pulls the roots to the top of the ground and the plant falls over, bloop. Deep occasional water pulls the roots into the ground and makes a stronger plant"

I sure agree with that last part ('deep watering pulls roots into the ground'). Deep watering will encourage roots to seek out moisture; the deeper the moisture the deeper the roots will grow. Long watering times, especially in the beginning, will sure stave off plant drought later in the season by having those roots down deep where there is less evaporation. Those who water shallowly will encourage the plant to NOT have to seek water deep down and those roots stay too close to the evaporation zone. (This is for in-ground growing; containers are another topic all together.)

However, the "if you spray the flowers you will get no fruits" part is not necessarily a given. Plants have had flowers rained on since the beginning of time and will still begat fruit. Consider a rain forest; if that statement were true we'd probably have none. Fortunately flowers tend to nod, inhibiting rain/water from entering as they are hit by raindrops/irrigation, saving their pollen from catastrophe. Many plants, especially self-pollinizing vegetables (tomatoes, beans, lettuce, etc) have begatted their offspring before the flowers even open. Pretty smart of Ma Nature, eh? :>)

Happy Gardening, All.

Shoe (who just realized he's getting a bit too long-winded again. Sorry.)




This message was edited Jul 29, 2012 11:26 PM

No Shoe, you are doin good, just came from Mt Olive, NC- lots of beans, cotton, corn and tobacco fields, we get gully washers in Tx- only seen those in NC when chasing a hurricane back off the NC coasts- and
Agreed to the most plants set fruit before flower, but I have seen some folks water so heavy they wash the blooms off, love you untangling my thinks!

"untangling my thinks!"

Hah! I sure identify with that! And you described it perfectly! I know I my mind needs untangling quite often! Thanks.

And you were in Mt Olive recently? Sheesh, if you were cruising I-40/I-85 you probably went right by my place. I better hook up my CB so I can holler next time you're coming by.

Shoe

I saw Elfland direc an waved, I was all hungry eyes watchin the farms and gardens so pretty in the sun! Now, down to Chicago to head for Kennesaw, Ga, am so hungry for fruits it isn't funny

The main thing I remember about North Carolina is driving through Winston-Salem years ago and the WHOLE TOWN smelled of tobacco. That was a good thing in my opinion because I'm a nicotine addict (no longer practicing, dang it).

Shoe, how did the Stewart's Zeebest okra do for you? That's about the only thing I've still got going in this unending heat, and production has been cut in half lately on even that. 106 degrees here yesterday.

Um, Winston Salem always smelled of bakery to me, til they put in the new bypass hwy! Zeebests ought to work gangbusters for you

Yep, W-Salem often smelled like tobacco. And when I first came to the Durham area those factories were still operating and it, too, smelled like tobacco everywhere.
Course now, when kittriana mentions Bakery smells it reminds me of Krispy Kreme donuts, their home town is Winston-Salem. Yummy!

Ozark, I love the Zeebest! I planted things out later than normal but have been picking for several weeks now. It's a keeper. I've even picked "longer than average" pods and many of them are very nice and tender. I'll be pickling some soon! I'm grateful to you for sharing it with me.

Shoe (off to pick pole beans; okra will hold til tomorrow when I have propane for my canning stove).

>> Regarding mildews and fungus, your area is not known for high humidity

I never understand how we can have constant clouds and frequent drizzle, but low humidity. And yet it is so.

A prior owner put some roses under trees, in the shade, asurrounded aby breeze-blocking huge bushes. I don't know if it is fungus or not, but those have "black, dead leaves syndrome" all the ti8me. Nothuing else seems to have leaf diseases, not even peas. (Maybe snow peas are rust-resistent?)

One reason I am making a drip system (with maybe some sprinklers for large areas under trees and around bushes)) is to apply UNIFORM water to some tomatoes in pots. And 2-3 in the ground. And keep the soil surface from turning into dust-dry dust where it isn't mulched, when I don;t have time to water for two days.

Wash state- at least along the coast - has a lot of air circulation, and you guys have soil that drains! If we in Houston got that rain every day it would be a foot deeper on the roads, in the sloughs, ditches, and just sitting on the wet sand, that helps our 90* days of 90%humidity just generate fungus! Our air flow bumps into a rise of elevation 100m north and either dies there, or heads for the Ohio valley. Flat sand in a bubble.

>> you guys have soil that drains!

Not where I live! Of course, I have no idea what soil was there before the bulldozers scraped away everything they could.

When I dig a hole below grade, and it rains or I water, that water stays there until it evaporates. I grow only in raised beds on slopes, or with trenches cut to a lower point.

I always thought my clay NEEDED a big pick, swung as hard as I could, from far over my head, just to chip it. Then someone explained that you have to MOISTEN the clay, so it's like pudding instead of bricks. Duhh!

Well, that is how it's done ESP with caliche, cement when dry- quicksand when wet, we do have that as well, gonna have to look up where Everett is, tho I suspect Ive been close- you guys have all those crystal clear bottomless lakes in that area, dont you? That is Blackspot on the roses I'd bet, ummm! Marysville, yup- you guys have those hard on my lactose intolerance 'crispitos' that are such good fingerfood. It's peaceful up there, and there are awesome nurseries all over everywhere!

It is peacefull. The people are so polite, that when I moved from New Jersey, at first I wondered what they were all ON. Too wierd. But it turned out that they were just polite and considerate.

>> That is Blackspot on the roses I'd bet,

That must be why the nursery guy called roses "blackspot on a stick".

>> guys have all those crystal clear bottomless lakes in that area, dont you?

Hmm, I haven't dived in, but there are some pretty blue ones. Summers barely get above 70, so there isn't much motivation to swim too cool off. Instead we stand around pointing at the sky, marveling at the big round bright thing that we haven't seen in 8-9 months.

The beer and coffee are unuqaled, but I don't know "crispitos".

>> awesome nurseries

It is "The Evergreen State" despite the efforts of the logging industry to clear-cut anything they could reach. I was impressed by the VARIETY of evergreens here. back east, I think everything was clear-cut and re-planted with "crop trees" severalk times over the last few hundred years. No variety.

Out here, every single tree seems to have its own peculiar growth habit. I borrowed some "tree identification guide" from a library, and the PNW had 10-20 times as many pages as New England.