First blooms of 2007 (oregon)

I keep wondering if the blue picotee will ever produce a double bloom!

another, these are grown in the front window (not in a greenhouse)

another

Wow! Wonderful!!
Louanne

Beth how long befored they flowered? When did you start them?

I started them late last august and they have been flowering all winter, starting in November if I recall correctly.

those are really nice

Beth, Lovely blooms.

I am still perplexed if this is a Mt. Fuji or single blue picotee. The petals are more pointed than the usual Mt. Fuji I have seen, but the blue picotee are usually double blooms. Any opinions?????
Beth

its a Mt Fuji

On the Mt. Fuji's I've seen the white color is more pronounced and travels almost to the throat of the flower. I guess is just a little "different".
If it's a Mt. Fuji I should not have posted the photo under Single Picotee Blue in the Plantfiles, does anyone know how to delete a photo in the Plantfiles?
beth

This message was edited Jan 4, 2007 11:42 AM

I haven't seen a blue picotee with the stripe like yours, but the shape sure looks like it. If the vine is petite in all aspects compared to a typical vine, then it's definitely a picotee. Picotees are dwarf MG's. The flower on average won't be more than two inches across, and the leaves about the same, and grow to only about 4-5 ft. They also won't be variegated.

Your single flowers will be the ones to make seed. I had a vine the summer before last that had nothing but doubles for the longest, then I guess when it decided it was mature enough, began to produce nothing but singles and made all sorts of seedpods.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/82063/

You can have images changed or deleted by submitting an error report at the top of the page of the photo in question.

Can anybody hazard a guess at why MG's grown inside stay open all day, where when they are growing outside they close around noon?

QueenB: could it possible be a cross? The leaves are not varigated at all, the vine is not big.

This message was edited Jan 4, 2007 1:24 PM

I think this was asked long time ago...If memory serves me correctly, it had to do with a combination of heat, light, and humidity. I know that my outside morning glories will stay open longer with less color change on cool, cloudy days than on mornings when the sun hits them. After that, they age pretty rapidly. I recently had some I. purpureas stay open until late afternoon, when normally they're closed before noon on hot days.

My guess is that you probably have a sport, which you know is pretty common. I like your little sporty flower! :-)

Beth, I really enjoy your pictures!

To me, your picotee looks like a plant that has the star (s) gene which causes the star shaped flowers commonly referred to as picotees. This star gene also causes the "petite" growth habit mentioned by QueenB, and the change in shape of the leaf base...kind of overlapping rear lobes which the Japanese call "eddy" - referring to a swirl of water. Your plant also has the white ray influence which could have come from either a Mt. Fuji or Youjiro type plant. I think your plant is the result of a cross between these two different type plants. I don't know what you would properly call it, other than a pretty white rayed star shaped flower! I would vote for the "picotee" label before a "Mt.Fuji" label...personal preference.

I've often wondered if "picotee" only refererred to the plants with star shaped flowers or if it also was used to name a white margined flower....I don't even know where I got this notion, but for some reason its there!....something I've read somewhere? Anybody else ever heard of anything like this?

Arlan

I looked into this sometime last year, and the definition of 'picotee' is basically a contrasting edging (which in the case of MG's, is normally white). Most of the dwarf types with the star shape have this edging, and have been marketed as blue or red picotee, among other colors, so now the shape is being associated with the color--i.e. 'white picotee'--which obviously doesn't have a margin, since the whole flower is white. I was under the same impression as you when I first became aware of the cultivar some years back, and I think this is the main reason. I haven't seen the 'picotee' name applied to any of the larger flowers, either, so I think it's also meant to give the impression of being petite.

The first picture here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/baolvera_1167928362_652.jpg
looks like the secondary folds have not opened up completely giving more of a pseudo-star shaped look...
The bloom has all of the features of a youjiro...more specifically Fuji no Murasaki...


Terms that are overly general or otherwise too 'fuzzy' being used to describe 'specialized' features is not a good idea...I would like to suggest that terms that most closely match the specifics of the plants outstanding features be used...

English terms that are clearly understood by English speaking peoples is a good idea ...the japanese to English translations should reflect the japanese concepts without getting too caught up in the 'convolutions' of their approach to verbalizing thought concepts...lost i.e.,> by comparison to an easy to understand English or Western style of conceptualizing...

short curved smaller secondary lobes is preferable to trying to 'work' > 'flowing watery currents' into English terms that are not going to result in confusion and misapprehension...

JMHO...

Ron

Ron, I have a long way to go on the learning curve around here, so I hope I don't sound too presumptuous in agreeing with you. But, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents that although I agree about the practicality of using English terms that are more precise and understandable, I hope we can still allude to the Japanese way of putting things - even in inadequate translation - because I love the poetry within the names and descriptions they ascribe to these flowers.

As always everyone, thanks for sharing that beautiful flower and the insights that "rode in on it".

karen

Actually this particular plant always has the "star" shape to its blooms, as long as the bloom is open, but I agree it is more like Fuji than Picotee. Thanks for directing me to the correct identification. I made sure I corrected my entry in the Plantfiles.
Beth

Here is another shot of one of the blooms that opened today. There were 3 blooms this morning.

And here is the first bloom of what was supposed to be Heavenly Blue.....but it is purple! Did I get a Wedding Bells seed instead????
Did I get something else? Isn't the throat supposed to be yellow????
After looking at it again, I guess there is a little yellow in the throat, but not that much.

This message was edited Jan 5, 2007 8:51 AM

A note about Oregon, a place of diverse climate zones....if you look on the USDA climate zone map at the DARK BROWN geographic locations, you will see it present in the lower parts of the southern states and northern Florida. If you check Oregon you will see the western valley, called the Willamette Valley is also zone 8. Although Oregon is up north geographically, most of western Oregon has a very mild climate (at least in the Willamette Valley where I am) while central and eastern Oregon is much colder. That may explain why MG's grow so well here.


AND NO HURRICANES HERE!

This message was edited Jan 8, 2007 3:01 PM

Beth my Morning glorys stay open all day to late at night here in the winter spring and winter they close by noon

Hmm, must be a function of temperature.

thats what i think plus the light is not as bright in the cool mnts here

Beth, I hate to break it to you, but you don't have Heavenly Blue, or even the right species. Heavenly Blue is I. tricolor, and what you have is an I. purpurea, if I have ID'ed it correctly from I can see of the stems and leaves. The seeds are even shaped differently. If you bought them as Heavenly Blue, you have been taken. Sorry.

Edited to say that Wedding Bells is also I. tricolor, so it's still the wrong species.

On the other hand, your spoked flower is gorgeous!



This message was edited Jan 5, 2007 2:05 PM

I knew I did not get what I expected by looking at the bloom! I don't want to be too quick to blame anybody but myself. It could be my fault where I mixed up the seeds, possibly. I can't figure out how I did it though because the Heavenly Blue seeds are more elongated....oh well, life is full of suprises! I don't mind when the suprise is as lovely as this one!

Hey Beth - The latest photo you posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/baolvera_1168015757_544.jpg
does look somewhat different than the 1st photo you posted...

The area of the corolla that is referred to as the secondary fold area is atypical in both photos...the 1st photo shows the secondary fold seemingly not fully unfurled and the 2nd photo shows what looks like either tears or incomplete fusing...

We may have to watch this plant to see what is continues to produce...it might just be unusual blooms induced by winter conditions...the primary ribs are extending out past the corolla periphery more than usual...but again this could be secondary to the corolla tissue inbetween not forming fully...Let's see what it continues to do...especially if it continues to bloom into the summer...

The small pink bloom that you posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/baolvera_1168015852_647.jpg
looks like a classic pink I.purpurea as Stacey already mentioned...although the sepals visible in the upper left are those of Ipomoea nil >i guess a different plant(?)...


TTY,...

Ron

I`m Not trying to ID this but notice similarities in your purple one and some of mine. So here are some ideas out my garden for you to look at and maybe for Ron to consider.

It is a Sunsmile and is a short vine and a creeper. It will "climb" somewhat with a little help but is not a twining vine with the curlies looping everywhere.



This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 10:31 AM

This is one of the yogiros I grew that was sporting flowers with more cuts on the sides and they were not tears. This one vine grew some that were shaped on the edge and some that had a more extreme shape like this one on the same vine. I have selected some of these and will try them again.

That's interesting, Komeri is marketing this one as 'Kawaii', which is what I grew out last year. I really enjoyed it. It made vines like Q751, and as you described. It might be a candidate for a hanging basket?

Joseph

Which one looks like Kawaii? The first purple is a dwarf short vine with large variegated leaves. The second picture of the deep blue one is a climber and is a yogiro with solid green dragonfly leaves. I may give the hanging baskets a try next spring.

This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 10:36 AM

The second one looks like 'Maisugata', one of my faves. Sorry for the confusion, you were posting as I was posting on that one; this is the one I referred to as being 'Kawaii': http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3058513


This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 11:42 AM

Yes, it is maisugata. This threw out some with more extreme shapes and some doubles...wowee! Yes,one of my favorites too!!!


http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3058540


This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 12:40 PM

Beth - can we see what the leaves look like on the 'mysterious' flower with very definite white rays along the primary folds/ribs....

Joseph - The Kawaii have solid green leaves...yes(?)...

Generally - (to whoever might be interested) - when there is separation between the petals...it is usually referred to as scalloping,semi-separation or incomplete fusing...
The first primal Ipomoea species all had completely separate petals and as the species evolved the petals gradually fused into a funnel form...this area of fusion correlates with the secondary folds...when an Ipomoea is unfurling the primary folds will open and unfurl first followed by the secondary folds...technically the primary fold refers to the inside of the corolla and the primary rib is the support structure on the exterior corolla...although rib and fold are often used 'as if' they are the same since the basic area is the same...just for reference...

TTY,...

Ron

This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 12:20 PM

My bad, yes, Kawaii did have solid leaves. No variegation in sight.

Interesting. I see what I call a picot edge..like picot lace or picot crochet lace. If you sew or crochet then you`ll get what I mean. :)

The term picotee also refers to many kinds of flowers. I think it also refers to the edge being a different color.

The kawaii and the Sunsmile favor with the differences being seen. I looked it up. I`m unsure how reliable the source was but it says Kawaii means "cute" in Japanese. I think they are cute little flowers myself.

Interesting conversations!

Ron - your discussions of the secondary fold areas and incomplete tissue between ribs is informative. Is this how you would describe the typical flower with the star gene? Is there something about the flower shown and discussed that leads you away from thinking it has the star gene? Beth's flower seems more open and less funnelform than the typical star flowers I have seen, but then I think that the normal picotee type plants we see do not seem have any of the other genes that will increase flower size, such as retracted and dragonfly. I agree, it would be helpful to see a clear picture of a leaf from this plant. here is one of my single star flowers from this fall for comparison: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/si/104291/

gardner, nice looking purple Sunsmile! I've grown a light pink one and a dark pink "Kodachi" with the same growth habits. I've noticed on mine, and have read, that the flowers on these creepers also often show some star shaped flower characteristics.

I've obtained Kawaii for growing this year. So ....it also is a creeper, but has solid green leaves...like the Carol series?

Arlan