Would you shake a muddy hand?

Here is a link to more info on MRSA, which is the super staph strain that is resistant to all forms of penicillin:
http://tinyurl.com/b4pso

In my case, I'm allergic to penicillin, so it wouldn't matter that this bacteria is resistant to it. Most folks get this infection in the hospital ( in the US). It's the product of antibiotic overuse.

Latex gloves are Ok if you are not allergic or sensitive to latex. Many people are, so if you get itchy skin or hives while wearing latex gloves, or shortly thereafter, stop exposing yourself to them immediately. The allergy can develop from excess exposure to the latex and can rapidly develop into anaphalactic shock.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/980101ap/reddy.html

I stopped working in hospitals in the 1980's when "managed care" became the norm. I'm still senstive to latex even though I've not been in contact with it in over 20 years.

Editted the links to make them work.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2006 6:39 PM

Careful Ardesia .. there is such a thing as too clean! Medical science is catching up to my old granny who always knew a little dirt was good for the body and soul! The soaring number of children who are developing asthma, super duper ear infections and seem to get sick all the time are the ones who were kept squeaky clean from birth. If you aren't exposed to germs from day 1, your immune system doesn't develop properly.

Increased hygiene and a lack of exposure to various microorganisms may be affecting the immune systems of many populations - particularly in highly developed countries like the US - to the degree that individuals are losing their bodily ability to fight off certain diseases.

That's the essence of the "hygiene hypothesis," a fairly new school of thought that argues that rising incidence of asthma, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis and perhaps several other diseases may be, at least in part, the result of lifestyle and environmental changes that have made us too "clean" for our own good.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002421.html

There are a number of links out there about being too clean. Just go to any search engine and type the words too clean, then go and throw all your anti-bacterial soap away.

X

This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 9:20 AM

MRSA is no longer just in the hospital. It is in the community and exposures can come from school (sports) or families. It's common in nursing homes. If you develop an abscess, boil, or "rising", see your primary care provider. Frequently in my area, it responds to Septra DS.

Staph bacteria (not a virus) lives on us all the time- it's normal. As we use more and more antibiotics, the germs become resistant to the ABT. This can especially happen if one doesn't complete the prescription of antibiotic or misses doses. The drug level falls enough to allow the allow some of the bacteria to survive and adapt to become resistant to it. Antibiotics don't work on viruses so are ineffective for colds- sinus, throat, or chest colds. They also frequently don't make any difference in otitis media (ear infections). This is why providers no longer order antibiotics at the onset of cold symptoms- even when the patient feels like crud. It protects the person from developing antibiotic resistant organisms. That said, if someone's symptoms are not clearing or are worsening, they should be re-evaluated or at least touch base with their provider. As we go into cold season, many people will develop bronchitis with cough and phlegm. Frequently this will be viral and will respond to inhalers and possibly a short burst of steroids rather than antibiotics.

Stepping down off soapbox :-)

Maggie

This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 9:25 AM

This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 9:26 AM I just can't type or proofread

This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 9:29 AM

Our pediatricians told us to ditch all of our anti-bacterial soaps several years ago and we did. He said it was a great marketing gimmick. He also had some interesting comments about children losing natural acquired immunities because they swim in chlorinated pools these days as opposed to ponds and lakes.

Rock on, X!

I agree with you. I've always been a strong Advocate of the principal GOCS(good 'ole commom sense), and I think it applies here.

While there is no excuse, or place in our lives, for filth,in any form- as my Daddy used to say,"A little dirt never hurt anyone." :o)

DeannaV

Well, before this week no one could ever accuse me of being too clean. I was re-introduced to a woman last evening who said "You're all cleaned up and I didn't recognise you". She was a fellow gardener so I just laughed but that is the truth I am afraid; I am usually a muddy mess and have been for 60+ years. LOL


.

LOL Maybe this is the reason my kids don't get sick very often. We are all mud puppies. ;)

I agree with the census that a handshake is good even though one of the gardeners has 'honest' dirt on their hands. I frequently shake hands with people in the middle of performing their jobs...mechanics, gardeners, etc.

Xeramtheum,

Why did you take years to lose your accent? My mother had a beautiful accent from the South until she died in 1999. My aunts and uncles that are living still have an accent.

Good day to all!!!

Chuck

I deliberately lost the accent because in the business world it is a liablilty. People actually think you aren't quite that intelligent with a Southern Drawl. Before you go and say not so, many many years ago there was an experiment that I was part of, in which 15 people with various accents were asked to read a paragraph about laser beams, and they were all recorded. 100 people listened to the recording and were asked to rate the peoples intelligence base on what they heard. People with Southern accents were always rated with the lowest intellegence and the New York accent came in the 2nd lowest. Neutral and slight British accents were rated the highest.

X

Dear X, I am sorry to hear that. It is such a pretty accent.

Thanks for clearing that up,

Chuck

Great! I for one, am glad they think the Southern accent is lower intelligence... maybe they'll stay up north! I love the gentle inflections and the slow generous language of the south.

And, I meant to add, we grew up with dirt and NO antibiotics. As children when working in the garden, with Moms' approval, we would sample, carrots, radishes, cucumbers or tomatos by just dusting the dirt off. Same with fruits. I remember my Mom puzzling over seeing cuke blooms but no cucumbers. We would devour them, rind and all. I am still an advocate of less meds is better health and antibiotics are no exception.

Xeramtheum,

Just caught your thread here. I'd have to say... I'd dip my hands in your dirt then shake your hand!!! I'd dive right in and help mix!!

I'm originally from South Georgia. I moved to Buffalo, NY for 8 years. I had to lose the accent as well. I worked in businesses and folks just didn't take me very seriously with the accent. As well, I was run all over. So, I lost the accent. Now, I've moved back down to North Florida... I kinda had the same in reverse. Folks down here didn't take to kindly to my northern accent I had deveoped... even though I was a native southerner. But alas, I have now happily regained my southern accent.

Donna

I worked for a bank in Connecticut for a while, and they LOVED my accent. I'd be the one to call ATM technicians at night to let them know they had to go out and fix a machine, and they didn't get all mad at me because my voice was soothing!

I haven't watched soap operas in decades, but back in the day, all the "bad people" had southern accents. Ticked me off royally.

White Hydrangea - you are not alone in not wanting to shake hands with people. I know where my hands have been and how often I wash them. I DON'T know where other people have had their hands. Many is the time I have been in a bathroom in a restaurant or dept. store and I am the only one who washed hands before leaving. Those women are so gross. My husband says it is the same way in the men's room. He will be washing his hands and they will look at him like he is a fool. I don't shake hands with people at church either. Our preacher thinks you have to shake hands with everyone every Sunday. I say hello and glad to see you. If someone new or a missionary comes in I tell them point blank that I do not shake hands. If they don't like it, tough.

Also, I am from FL and grew up with a southern accent. I still have it and worked in offices in various states since my husband was a military officer for 30 yrs. If anyone thought I was dumb being from the south, they never said it. I always did more than was my job and contributed more than a lot of people I worked with. Guess that is more important than whether I speak with a southern accent or not. LIZ

I'm definitely getting to where I'll think twice before shaking an obviously dirty hand offered to me .. and likewise, nor will I offer my dirty hand to anyone else. Still .. just seems that such certainly shouldn't be considered a pre-judgment(?) of ones' character or any offense should be taken - with either party. Simply some wise precautions to consider ..

It's a given that I'm gonna manage to get a scratch or two. Most times, none of us give a 2nd thought to the wee lil boo-boos that occur in the day-to-day gardening.

Even a torn nail into the 'quick' .. gives an open invitation to some nasty bacteria to enter and take hold. Cracked dry skin conditions .. can be enuff for bacteria to enter. A thorn prick, a sharp seed pod, a sticker, a branch, a sharp rock, spade handle splinter, etc. .. and whether mixing and turning soil, digging in the ground, or fillin’ a hole – it can easily get pushed into and under the cuticle, and allow bacteria in. And it really doesn't take much to do so ..

Cellulitis .. is just one lil problem that can occur, very quickly. It causes very tight swelling, redness, discomfort, and pain .. and can cause far worse, if untreated. No matter how quickly you get in to wash your hands thoroughly - the bacteria has long already entered and manifested in the area.

Nope .. I don't want to risk handing anyone the poison ivy from my glove, the possible contamination of a chemical, or get their allergies flaring, or worse .. and nor do I desire risking anyone to pass (whatever) to me either.

I'll use my hand (gloved or not) and direct folks to the porch, to sit a spell .. while presenting my best ol uggly mug with as broad a smile I can muster displayin' thru the dirt (that is almost always on my face too), and excuse myself to go clean up my hands and face. I'll let 'em know that I'll fetch us a fresh pot of coffee, or glass of iced tea .. just as soon as I'm cleaned up a bit. Tell 'em to make themselves at home in the mean time. The way I figger it, is if such an invite from my heart doesn't relay anything akin to some neighborly kindness and common courtesy - then there wouldn't be too much else that would make any difference either .. (hee)

Xeramtheum ..

What interesting replies! Rest assured I would never off a filthy hand to shake.

I'll pass on to you something I learned many many years ago about hands. Never touch your face in public and don't cough or sneeze into your hands especially if you are sick . If you must cough or sneeze, cover your mouth with your elbow and make it a habit to wash your hands the minute you get home. Because of this, I can count on 1 hand, the times I've caught the flu or a cold in the last 35 years! Most viruses are passed by the hands. You hand touches a contaminated door knob or you shake hands with someone who is sick then you rub your eyes or nose and voila, the virus is passes on. If you must touch your face and a tissue is not near by then use the back of your wrist.

I've had the flu once and a cold twice in the last 35 years and in each case it was because I had to sit within a few feet of a co-worker who was sick. I have never had a flu shot either. When I worked as an office manager in a research lab at a university many years back, our boss had a rule that if anyone came to work sick or with the sniffles they would be docked a days pay and sent home. Because of this policy our lab had the best attendance record every year.

X

Xeramtheum,

I'm not discounting what you've said in the least. Those are good practices.

However, I've not followed those principals and I've not had a cold or the flu in the past 20 years at all. I don't use that hand sanitizer that a lot of folks use. And I'm not saying it's so wrong to do so. I'm just saying that I think it has more to do with your ability to fight off such germs without all that jazz. If you're body never comes in contact with them, it doesn't build up any immunity against them. If you have a good immune system against the germs, there isn't much to worry about.

Way back in the day, samalnella (sp?) was unheard of. My folks left meat out on the counter to thaw all the time. And so did other folks. And no one got sick. A little different than colds and flu... but it's the same principal.

I do wash my hands often. I do bathe everyday. So I stay pretty clean... but I don't take it that far. I'm not convinced that all these sanitizing things that are on the market today are there because it makes things better for us. Perhaps to scare us into using them.

I'm sorry, but I know that there are a lot of scare tactics that are used in the media and such to make us do or not to do certain things.

I don't mean to step on any toes here... just my opinion.

Donna

I'd also like to say that when you get a "flu shot", it contains the flu... and sometimes you can actually get the flu from it. It's a low amount of it... but just enough to wake up your immune system... so when it encounters that germ or whatever again... it will be easier for your system to fight it. It's the same way for a lot of vaccines... like for Polio and such.

Donna

One of the reasons I do not get a flu shot is because it contains thermisol which has mercury in it which has been shown to be responsible for the super surge of autism in children in the last 25 years. There are many lawsuits in process because of this. They are now making some vaccines thermisol free but they are very hard to find and pregnant women should stay very far away from any vaccine with thermisol in it. The real horror story is that thermisol laced vaccines for children are still being used.

Thermisol is used as a preservative along with formaldehyde and aluminium. It is put into vaccines to give them long shelf lives.

If you wish to know more about thermisol just go to any search engine and type in thermisol children and if you have children be sure to ask if any vaccine they are given has thermisol in it and if it does request one that doesn't. You also should not feed children tuna or eat tuna if you are pregnant, in any form as it is loaded with mercury, again, go to any search engine and type in mercury tuna. Actually all deep ocean fish contain mercury, tuna has the most concentration of it.

Also, flu shots actually contain last years flu in it which really doesn't do anything for this years flu strains and the CDC readily admits that they may offer some resistance to flu but in the long wrong actually do nothing.

If you are elderly or your work exposes you to a lot of people, flu shots are probably not a bad idea. Otherwise healthy people do not need them. Learn the facts about thermisol and the efficacy of flu shots then make your choice.

X

This message was edited Nov 22, 2006 1:57 PM

I've never even considered getting a flu shot myself, so I didn't know about that deal.

However, my doctor, as well as friends of mine who are doctors, say you should eat tuna at least once a week. It's very rich in Omega 3 Fatty Acids... and the benefits far out weigh the mercury deal. So I can't say I absolutely agree there.

I mean... there are also pages on the net that will tell you to drink or eat things like bleach and stuff if you look for them. I don't believe everything I read... especially on the net. Not saying you shouldn't take it into consideration, but ... like I've said before... the media controls us. I mean... they advertise mind altering drugs (xoloft, prozac etc.) like everyone should be taking them. So not true. Sure, some folks do need them and maybe should take them... however... I never see them talk about the brutal affects they can have on some people, and believe me, I know the brutal affects they can have. So, I use my own judgement... and I read about things... and get all the information before deciding on life altering things. I don't follow any media hype propaganda.

But I truly believe that you can find something wrong with or bad about anything, if you look hard enough.

Donna

Tuna for adults in moderation is ok .. just not for developing neurological systems in children and unborn children.

X

I'm having trouble with the new Windows Explorer 7 and I can't seem to copy a link but if you google Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch it is a terrific site for information on eating fresh seafood.

Hey X, thanks for the information on thermisol. We don't get flue shots for different reasons however your comments further reaffirm my decision to continue not get flu shots.

We've all been sneezing and coughing into our elbows for years and we even were able to get all the grandmas and grandpas into the habit of following suit. I know this is going to sound really anal but... when I have to use a public restroom and wash my hands, I take the paper towel with me and use it to open the door and then I toss it behind the door if there is no readily available waste can. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't wash their hands after using a restroom. I know I am not alone in doing this because at the last RU, there were a few DGers who were in the restroom with me hanging onto their paper towels and we were all sort of giggling because we literally all shared the same concerns. I am convinced that it's not so much what we touch but if we wash our hands after doing so.

I have a question for you X that you may or may not be able to answer. Why is it that there are some medical doctors who do not believe in blowing one's nose when one has a cold or a flu bug? I was told it had something to do with placing one at greater risk of a secondary bacterial infection in addition to the underlying viral infection but I simply need helping understanding the whys behind this if you know.

Excellent site Ardesia it pointed me to another link which is even better. It has a chart that tells you how much you can eat in a month and be safe.

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=healthalerts

X

Equilibrium, the reason is probably because the back pressure created by forcing air through a clogged nose, can force the mucous and infection into the eustacion tubes which then can cause a secondary infection of the sinuses. If you absolutely must blow your nose, do it as gently as possible in a way that causes no back pressure.

A good example of back pressure is when you hold your nose and blow in an airplane to equalize the pressure in your ears.

X

Great! we never eat pork and only eat meat maybe once a week if even that much n favor of fish and poultry and according to that chart, my entire family is going to be in need of some serious detoxification based on our diet. We eat at least one of the "eco worst" fish a week. Yikes! I have learned so much from this thread.

Ugh, I blow my nose all the time because of allergies and such. I have most probably been contributing substantially to my own sinus problems based on what you just shared with me. That is going to be one heck of a habit to unlearn.

Thanks for enlightening me... time to go cry in spilt milk.

Well, this has been a most interesting thread!
Since we have migrated to the correlating topic of personal hygiene and health.............those of you with nasal allergies and sinus problems might find a significant, if not total, amout of relief by practicing jal-neti, or nasal irrigation. I know this technique may seem strange to some of you, but it has been practiced by many cultures for thousands of years.

Neti pots come in many forms. You can google around and see some different types. I like the stainless steel one available from the Health and Yoga site. They provide a lot of information on the practice on their site:

http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/clean/nasal.html

One of the reason nasal allergies are on the rise is that municipal landscapers are not practicing safe (plant) s3x in the garden. They illiminate the need to clean up unwanted fruits& berries by planting only male plants. This has greatly increased the pollen counts in the air, and is contributing to the global warming effect.

More info here on allergy free gardening:
http://www.allergyfree-gardening.com/welcome.php


I guess the moral of the story is that we gardeners can lead the way to keeping our hands and noses clean.
:D

Have been following this thread and agree. When I am in a public bathroom, I wash up and use the paper towel on the door handle. The door should open out so I can shoulder it instead. Do you know how long you have to wash hands to do any good? I have heard as long as it takes you to the the "Happy Birthday to you" ditty... Not many folks wash that long!

Re: seafoods with the exception of children, elderly and infirm, I believe anything in excess is unhealthy. (gardening ?) Hmmmm.

In our area, another reason for the increase in allergies is the enclosed houses, carpeted with no outside ventilation. The allergens stay indoors and these days so do the children. And Garden_Mermaid, one of the prime examples of your landscaping theory is in the valley of the sun Phoenix. In the past considered a have for those with severe allergies but no more...

Recently, while washing up in the restroom at the Medical University of SC I noticed a sign on the mirror with "hints" for appropriate handwashing. Most were those we already know but one caught my eye and I said "DUH, why haven;t I ever thought of that" to myself. They said to leave the faucet running after you have washed your hands and to not touch it directly but to turn it off with the paper towel. Good advice I thought.

For places with those dreadful blow dryers I carry the antibacterial gel and use it instead (and that is the only time I use it).

And, of course, always wear long sleeves so you stretch one down over your hand so you can open the door. LOL

There's a lot of good ideas here that I've never thought of. Not that I've gone coughing all over, I've just used my hand to cover my mouth. And restroom ideas. I've always washed my hands and such... but never thought about some of the things mentioned here.

I gotta tell ya though... not too long ago I really got grossed out. My husband and I were eating at a Denny's down towards St. Augustine off I-95. Our waitress was a bit ... how should I put it ... not very nice... to begin with. We always pay by debit card and leave tips on the card as well. So when we were finished eating, I headed for the restroom. Not that I was trying to notice, but I did through the cracks in the stalls, our waitress entered one of the stalls next to me. She finished before I did, I exited my stall just in time to see her exit the restroom. She never even attempted to wash her hands. Didn't stop from the stall to the door. I washed my hands and such... my husband was waiting for me right out the door. I reaffirmed with him, that it was our waitress that had just exited before me, he said it was. I told him not to tip her. I was within inches of approaching her myself and letting her know how discusting I thought it was and talking to her manager. I was mad... and totally grossed out. We don't eat out much any more. It's just really gross.

Donna

Maybe you could have left her a note on the table and stated exactly why she wasn't getting a tip? That's nauseatingly vile to me.

That's really sick- I would've told the manager for sure.

Yeah, I really wanted to say something, but I was afraid that I was so mad about it that I would have ended up causing a real scene. I mean, if I get really upset about something... I let it out. My husband says I go overboard at times like that. I'm Bipolar, and I know it's no excuse, but sometimes things get me really going and I end up speaking louder than I would like to have spoke. :) I tend to over react as some might say. So I usually am just better off keeping my big mouth shut!! Although, I am a lot better at bitting my tongue these days than I use to be.

Donna

DonnaA2Z - I can go you one better than that. My husband was in the Navy and we were stationed in VA Beach, VA for 9 yrs. Several times a mo. (especially in winter) we would go to a Dunkin Donut Shop on VA. Beach, VA. He would have a cup of coffee and donut and I would have a cup of hot chocolate and donut. One night we happened to be seated at the counter where we could see into the baking area. A young man came in, went around the counter, back into the baking area. He proceeded to start taking donuts off the racks and puting them onto trays to be put out. After he had done this several times, he apparently got an itch in his drawers. He proceeded to put his left hand down the front of his pants and have a good scratch. Then he went back to putting donuts on the trays. My husband and I looked at each other, got up and left and never went in there again. It was years before I would eat at a Dunkin Donut shop again. We considered telling the manager, but we had seen her scratching among the many fake braids on her head so decided it would do no good. Gross people.

Now you know why they keep kitchens where people can't see them! Look on the bright side, though I admit it's a real Pollyanna stretch -- it probably builds up our immune systems.

Ugh.

LC2sgarden,

That's just way too gross!!!!!!! You win!!!

I have to say, in my early years I worked in a few restraunts. I've seen some bad stuff.... but never that bad.

I call salad bars "bacteria bars"... as that is where a lot of college kids get their samples for school for certain majors.

Take care,
Donna

Donna, you're upping the "eewwww" factor here!

The true "eeeewwww" factor is not so much the restaurants as the hospitals. Our local hospitals have been issuing hand sanatizer gels to all the nurses because they have been having a problem getting many of them to wash their hands between patients! I was raised to wash my hands regulary. Apparently some of the newer crop of nurses were not raised that way. All the more reason to stay healthy.
The sad part is, there are many nurses who are diligent about hygiene who are taking the rap for those that aren't.

I can actually see why nurses wouldn't want to wash their hands. When my boy was in the NICU for 5 weeks, I had to wash my hands every time I went in and, after he got that MRSA infection and was put in isolation, I had to wash my hands every time I left. I hung around the hospital all day since it was so far away from home and had to wash my hands two times every time I left to get something to eat, go pump, go for a walk, etc- one time when I was leaving and one time when I came back. It really took it's toll on my hands and they were cracked and once or twice bleeding. It took several months afterwards to get them back to normal. I could never be a nurse- they're expected to wash their hands more than that. I really don't see how. Of course, my hands are a quite sensitive....

But having said that, do I think nurses should wash their hands between patients? Absolutely! Apparently someone didn't or my boy wouldn't have gotten that MRSA infection.